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Certain personal guidelines I placed upon this modification is that only the faction bonuses that are in the original SMAC can be used. The reason for this is that I wanted to use all of the options that were available to the designers (this includes the social talent bonus). In other words, I wanted to see if I could fit all of those bonuses flavorfully into the original seven while still keeping them balanced relative to each other. Another point is that I always take into serious considerationthe input, suggestions, recommendations, etc. of others on the faction bonuses and how they can be fit flavorfully into the factions.
With that being said, let me start by re-naming most of the factions.
Gaia's Stepdaughters is re-named as Stepdaughters of Gaia.
Their starting base should be Gaia's High Garden
Peacekeeping Forces is re-named as Keepers of Wisdom.
Morgan Industries is re-named as The Morgan Conglomerate.
University of Planet is re-named as the Society of Archons.
I was thinking of re-naming their starting base Institute of Archons.
The Spartan Federation stays the same.
I think their starting base should be Spartan Command.
The Lord's Believers is re-named as The Lord's Conclave.
I think their starting base should be Great Conclave.
The Human Hive I think should be re-named The Human Labyrinth. However, input on this one would definitely be welcome.
Their starting base could remain the same or be changed to something else.
(Continued in next post by me)
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Edit: attached to this post is the zip file containing all the alternate faction graphics and text files. Once you download and unzip the file, simply remove the alt from each .pcx and text file. Then insert the files into the game folder and you are good to go and play SMAC.
Faction Profiles:
Original Bonuses:
Gaia's Stepdaughters:
+2 Efficency, +1 Planet, +1 Nutrients from Fungus, - 1 Police, -1 Morale.
Stepdaughters of Gaia:
AI-Interests: Build, Explore
Aggressiveness: Low
Limited Bonuses: TECH, Ecology, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, +PLANET, ROBUST, GROWTH
Limited Negatives: SOCIAL, -POLICE, SOCIAL, --GROWTH
Unlimited Bonuses: PSI, 25, MORALE, 0,
Unlimited Negatives: POPULATION, 3,
Edit: Changed FUNGENERGY to ROBUST, GROWTH. Changed -SUPPORT to --GROWTH.
Peacekeeping Forces:
-1 Efficency, 1 Talent plus an additional Talent for every four population at a base, 2x votes in planetary elections, may exceed hab population limits by two.
The Keepers of Wisdom:
AI-Interests: Discover, Build, Explore
Aggresiveness: Low
Limited Bonuses: TECH, Biogen, SOCIAL, +TALENT, VOTES, 2, TECH, 1,
Limitedl Negatives: SOCIAL, -PROBE, FUNGMINERALS, -1
Unlimited Bonuses: COMMERCE, 1, SHARETECH, 3,
Unlimited Negatives: INTEREST, -5,
Edit#1: changed FUNGNUTRIENT, -1 to FUNGMINERALS, -1
Morgan Industries:
+1 Economy, -1 Support, +1 Commerce, +100 Energy Credits at start, Bases cannot exceed size four without hab complexes and size 12 without hab domes.
The Morgan Conglomerate:
Aggressive: Low
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build
Limited Bonuses: TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, FUNGENERGY, 1,
Limited Negative: SOCIAL, -EFFIC, SOCIAL, -MORALE, PENALTY, Green,
Unlimited Bonuses: ENERGY, 100, INTEREST, 3,
Unlimited Negatives: DRONE, 4,
Edit#1: Changed interest from = to number of bases to a set percentage of 5%.
Edit#2: Changed interest from 5% to 3%.
University of Planet:
+2 Research, -2 Probe, Free network node at each base, Additional drone for every four population at a base, 1 Free tech at the start.
Society of Archons:
Aggressiveness: Erratic
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build, Explore
Limited Bonuses: TECH, InfNet, SOCIAL, +RESEARCH, FUNGMINERALS, 1, FACILITY, Network Node
Limited Negatives: SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, FUNGNUTRIENT, -1
Unlimited Bonuses: TERRAFORM, 0, HURRY, 75,
Unlimited Negatives: DRONE, 4,
Edit#1: Changed -MORALE to -SUPPORT. Also, changed Impunity Knowledge to FUNGMINERALS, 1,
Edit#2: Changed Hurry from 75% to 90%.
Spartan Federation:
+2 Morale, +1 Police, -2 Industry, Free Prototypes.
The Spartan Federation:
Aggressiveness: High
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Explore
Limited Bonuses: TECH, Mobile, SOCIAL, +MORALE, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, UNIT, 12,
Limited Negatives: SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -PLANET,
Unlimited Bonuses: FREEPROTO, 0, RESEARCH, 1,
Unlimited Negatives: HURRY, 125
Edit#1: Changed +POLICE to +SUPPORT.
Edit#2: Decreased Hurry penalty from 125% to 110%.
Original Bonuses:
The Lord's Believers:
+2 Support, +1 Probe, -1 Planet, -2 Research, Fanatic Bonus, No research until 2110.
The Lord's Conclave:
AI-Interests: Conquer, Build, Explore
Aggressiveness: High
Limited Bonuses: TECH, Psych, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, IMPUNITY, Fundamentalist FUNGNUTRIENT, 1
Limited Negatives: SOCIAL, -RESEARCH, FUNGENERGY, -1,
Unlimited Bonuses: MINDCONTROL, 0, FANATIC, 0, TALENT, 4,
Unlimited Negatives: TECHCOST, 125
The Human Hive:
+1 Industry, +1 Growth, --2 Economy, Free Perimeter Defense at each base, Immunity to negative efficency effects.
The Human Labyrinth:
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build
Limited Bonuses: TECH, Physic, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, +POLICE, IMPUNITY, Police State,
Limited Negatives: SOCIAL, -MORALE, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY,
Unlimited Bonuses: POPULATION, -3, TECHCOST, 75,
Unlimited Negatives: RESEARCH, -1
Edit#1: Changed -PLANET to -MORALE. Replaced Robust EFFIC with IMPUNITY, Police State. Changed +SUPPORT to +POLICE.
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Is it possible to use the Talent social benefit, or was it only buggy in the faction editor?
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It definitely works when you put it in by hand.
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oky doky
As on your faction clones project, it would help if you posted the stats of the original faction with it as a comparison. :)
On the Morgan intrest rate, how would you implement something like an increasing intrest rate according to the number of bases? AFAIK, it's stated in the faction text file, and that's it for the rest of the game.
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The interest percentage equals the number of bases owned when you set the INTEREST bonus to zero in the faction file. Also a faction's units become immune to negative morale modifiers when you set the bonus named MORALE to zero in a faction file.
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Some other things I have changed include:
1. Rules and terrain changes:
1a. Increasing the +/- per planet to 25%
1b. Hypontic trance gives +100% vs. PSI
1c. Changing around prototype costs
1d. Reduced base output of Forests to 1 nutrient, 2 minerals, 0 Energy
1e. Added a pre-requisite tech to forests of Centauri Ecology
1f. Enabled Sea Formers with Doctrine Flexibility
1g. Enable sea based versions of Boreholes, Airbases, bunkers and sensor arrays
1h. Added pre-req for all basic sea terraforming options of Doctrine: flexibility
1i. Changed max resource output for fungus from three of each resource to two of each resource
1. Increased base square resources to 2 Nutrients, 1 Mineral and 2 Energy
2. Disabled Hunter Seeker Algorithms Secret Project
3. Tech changes:
3a. Changed MMI to a build tech
3b. Changed Quantum Power to a build tech
3c. Changed Quantum Mechanics to a Discover tech
3d. Changed Advanced Military Algorithms to a Explore tech
3e.Changed Advanced Subatomic Theory to a Build Tech
3f. Changed Changed Planetary Economics to a explore tech
3g. Re-named Sentient Econometrics to Sentient Ecology
3h. Re-named Planetary Economics to Centauri Economics
3i. Re-named Nano-matter editation to Infinity Editation
3j. Re-named Advanced Military Algorithms to Doctrine: Total War
3k. Re-named Non-Linear Mathematics to Chaos Theory
3l. Re-named Advanced Subatomic Thoery to Subatomic Theory
3m. Swapped Doctrine: Total War with Photon/wave mechanics
3n.Swapped Doctrine: Total war with Doctrine: loyalty
3o. Re-named Doctrine: Loyalty to Doctrine: Security
3p Changed a pre-requisite of Synthetic Fossil Fuels from high energy chemistry to Subatomic Theory
3q. Changed a Pre-requisite of Doctrine: Total War from Optical Computers to Polymorphic Software
3r. Changed the Pre-requisites of Quantum Power from Planetary Economics and Frictionless Surfaces to Fusion Power and Unified Field Theory.
3s. Added Global Energy Theory
3t. Added Inertial Damping with a pre-req of frictionless surfaces and something else
3u. Swapped Centauri Ecology's blurb with Centauri Empathy's blurb
4. Adjusted some facility names (perhaps costs as well):
4a. Recreation Commons is re-named Recreation Dome
4b. Paradise Garden is re-named Paradise Dome
4c. Naval Yard is re-named Naval Base
4d. Sky Hydroponics Lab is re-named Sky Farm
4e. Stockpile Energy is re-named Mass to Energy
5. Swapped positions of Missile Launcher and Gatling Gun in weapons section
5a. Re-named Gatling Gun to Gatling Laser
5. Renamed and changed some pre-requisites and costs of special abilities
a. AAA becomes Tracking Lasers
b. Deep-Pressure Hull now requires Silksteel Alloys instead of Nanometallurgy as a pre-requisite.
c. Added short name for Deep Radar (name could be Radar)
6. Will probably change names of social models and their effects:
For example, having Police State give --Economy.
6a. Re-named Economy to Energy
7. Changed pre-requisite for Unite Behind Me as Supreme Leader from MMI to Homo Superior
8. Fun Facts :D:
Some weapon names from development include:
Nano-Missile Battery
Matter Cannon
Gatling Laser
Temporal Disruptor
Psi Blaster
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Seems to be like a pre-release version of stuff. :)
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I am so glad someone finally said that. It is has been my goal the whole time ;).
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Deleted
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?= Unknown or undecided and definitely make your opinion known.
:=seperation between title and actual information
Faction Profiles:
Original bonuses:
Gaian's:
+2 Efficency, +1 Planet, +1 Nutrients from Fungus, - 1 Police, -1 Morale.
The Stepdaughters of Gaia:
AI-Interests: Build, Explore
Aggressiveness: Low
Social Bonuses: +1 Efficency, +1 Growth, +1 Fungus Nutrient Production
Social Negatives: ??
Other Bonuses: Gaian Psi +25%, ??
Other Negatives: ?Decreased Population Limits?
Original bonuses:
Peacekeeper's
-1 Efficency, 1 Talent plus an additional Talent for every four population at a base, 2x votes in planetary elections, may exceed hab population limits by two.
The Keepers of Wisdom:
AI-Interests: Discover, Build, Explore
Aggresiveness: Low
Social Bonuses: +1 Talent or 1 talent + additional talent for every number of population, ?+1 Fungus Energy Production
Social Negatives: ?-1 Probe
Other Bonuses: +1 Commerce?, ?perhaps reduced Tech Cost
Also I want something other than Democracy as second part of Agenda. Suggestions would be very helpful.
Other Negatives:
Original bonuses:
Morgan:
+1 Economy, -1 Support, +1 Commerce, +100 Energy Credits at start, Bases cannot exceed size four without hab complexes and size 12 without hab domes.
The Morgan Conglomerate:
Aggressive: Low
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build
Social Bonuses: +1 Industry, +1 Economy/Energy, Impunity to Free Market?,
Social Negative: -1 Planet, -1 Morale or perhaps talent, ?Penalty to Green
Other Bonuses: Energy reserve interest per year = to the number of the bases controlled by faction, +100 Energy Credits
Other Negative: ?-1 Morale
Original bonuses:
University:
+2 Research, -2 Probe, Free network node at each base, Additional drone for every four population at a base, 1 Free tech at the start.
Society of Archons:
Aggressiveness: Erratic
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build, Explore
Social Bonuses: +1 Research, ?+1 Mineral Production in Fungus
Social Negatives: ?-1 Talent
Other Bonuses: ?+ number of labs at each base, ?perhaps tech share, ?reduced hurry cost, or ?Free prototypes
Other Negatives: ?additional drone for every number of population
Original bonuses:
Spartans:
+2 Morale, +1 Police, -2 Industry, Free Prototypes.
The Spartan Federation:
Aggressiveness: High
AI-Interests: Conquer, ?Discover or Build, Explore
Social Bonuses: +1 Morale, +1 Support ?Robust Efficency
Social Negatives: ?-1 Economy, ?-1 Growth
Other Bonuses: ?Increased population limits
Other Negatives: -100 Energy Credits?, or -% interest on energy credits per year, -number of labs at each base.
Original bonuses:
Believer's:
+2 Support, +1 Probe, -1 Planet, -2 Research, Fanatic Bonus, No research until 2110.
The Lord's Conclave:
AI-Interests: Conquer, Build, Explore
Aggressiveness: High
Social Bonuses: ?+1 Planet, Immunity to -Economy/Energy or Impunity to Fundamentalist, ?2x votes in elections, + Fung Production
Social Negatives: ?-1 Research
Other Bonuses: ?Immunity to Mindcontrol or +1 Morale, Fanatic Bonus
Other Negatives: ? - number Labs at each base, or increased tech cost?
Original bonuses:
Hive:
+1 Industry, +1 Growth, --2 Economy, Free Perimeter Defense at each base, Immunity to negative efficency effects.
The Human Labyrinth:
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, ?Build or Explore
Aggressiveness: High
Social Bonuses: +Probe, +Police, Impunity to Police State or ?Immunity to Economy
Note: These are what I was thinking for this faction
Social Negatives: ?-1 Energy, ?-1 Talent or extra drones per number of population
Other Bonuses: ?Bonus Labs or reduced tech cost
Other Negatives:
Much better for comparison. :P
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?= Unknown or undecided and definitely make your opinion known.
:=seperation between title and actual information
Faction Profiles:
Original bonuses:
Gaian's:
+2 Efficency, +1 Planet, +1 Nutrients from Fungus, - 1 Police, -1 Morale.
The Stepdaughters of Gaia:
AI-Interests: Build, Explore
Aggressiveness: Low
Social Bonuses: +1 Efficency, +1 Growth, +1 Fungus Nutrient Production
Social Negatives: ??
Other Bonuses: Gaian Psi +25%, ??
Other Negatives: ?Decreased Population Limits?
Original bonuses:
Peacekeeper's
-1 Efficency, 1 Talent plus an additional Talent for every four population at a base, 2x votes in planetary elections, may exceed hab population limits by two.
The Keepers of Wisdom:
AI-Interests: Discover, Build, Explore
Aggresiveness: Low
Social Bonuses: +1 Talent or 1 talent + additional talent for every number of population, ?+1 Fungus Energy Production
Social Negatives: ?-1 Probe
Other Bonuses: +1 Commerce?, ?perhaps reduced Tech Cost
Also I want something other than Democracy as second part of Agenda. Suggestions would be very helpful.
Other Negatives:
Original bonuses:
Morgan:
+1 Economy, -1 Support, +1 Commerce, +100 Energy Credits at start, Bases cannot exceed size four without hab complexes and size 12 without hab domes.
The Morgan Conglomerate:
Aggressive: Low
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build
Social Bonuses: +1 Industry, +1 Economy/Energy, Impunity to Free Market?,
Social Negative: -1 Planet, -1 Morale or perhaps talent, ?Penalty to Green
Other Bonuses: Energy reserve interest per year = to the number of the bases controlled by faction, +100 Energy Credits
Other Negative: ?-1 Morale
Original bonuses:
University:
+2 Research, -2 Probe, Free network node at each base, Additional drone for every four population at a base, 1 Free tech at the start.
Society of Archons:
Aggressiveness: Erratic
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, Build, Explore
Social Bonuses: +1 Research, ?+1 Mineral Production in Fungus
Social Negatives: ?-1 Talent
Other Bonuses: ?+ number of labs at each base, ?perhaps tech share, ?reduced hurry cost, or ?Free prototypes
Other Negatives: ?additional drone for every number of population
Original bonuses:
Spartans:
+2 Morale, +1 Police, -2 Industry, Free Prototypes.
The Spartan Federation:
Aggressiveness: High
AI-Interests: Conquer, ?Discover or Build, Explore
Social Bonuses: +1 Morale, +1 Support ?Robust Efficency
Social Negatives: ?-1 Economy, ?-1 Growth
Other Bonuses: ?Increased population limits
Other Negatives: -100 Energy Credits?, or -% interest on energy credits per year, -number of labs at each base.
Original bonuses:
Believer's:
+2 Support, +1 Probe, -1 Planet, -2 Research, Fanatic Bonus, No research until 2110.
The Lord's Conclave:
AI-Interests: Conquer, Build, Explore
Aggressiveness: High
Social Bonuses: ?+1 Planet, Immunity to -Economy/Energy or Impunity to Fundamentalist, ?2x votes in elections, + Fung Production
Social Negatives: ?-1 Research
Other Bonuses: ?Immunity to Mindcontrol or +1 Morale, Fanatic Bonus
Other Negatives: ? - number Labs at each base, or increased tech cost?
Original bonuses:
Hive:
+1 Industry, +1 Growth, --2 Economy, Free Perimeter Defense at each base, Immunity to negative efficency effects.
The Human Labyrinth:
AI-Interests: Conquer, Discover, ?Build or Explore
Aggressiveness: High
Social Bonuses: +Probe, +Police, Impunity to Police State or ?Immunity to Economy
Note: These are what I was thinking for this faction
Social Negatives: ?-1 Energy, ?-1 Talent or extra drones per number of population
Other Bonuses: ?Bonus Labs or reduced tech cost
Other Negatives:
Much better for comparison.
I have made the recommended changes.
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to found a society on the principles of security and control
This text is what prompted me to give the Labyrinth +1 Police and +1 Probe.
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Dunno, but a statement doesn't necessarily mean it is implemented. ;)
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But the whole point of the project is retro and going another way...
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As someone who plays the University a lot, removing the Network Nodes from their bonuses is sort of crippling; as it is you're reducing their research to +1, so they're barely going to have an edge in that area vs the rest of the factions. It also sort of defeats their mission statement of pursuing pure research.
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It looks like (one of) the underlying emphasis(es) is to let factions thrive on social benefits alone. For instance, the Hive has lots its free perimeter defenses as well.
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However, the loss of network nodes could be partly covered by the inclusion of a labs bonus at each base. I think this is more balanced because it does not stack as much with other bonuses.
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It was never my intention to not use the free facility faction bonus. However, I wanted to use it differently than how it is with the original seven factions. For example, I might give the university free skunkworks to show that they readily improvise materials while doing research and development.
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Another reason I came here was that I had hit a mental :wall:. This tends to make me ;clenchedteeth.
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If you wanted people to kick ideas around with, you've come to the right place.
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If you are correct, then I will throw some idea's around.
First, I felt that the believer's getting a social bonus to probe makes no sense. What is it about their faction that would increase their security measures? Instead I was thinking she should get a bonus to something like planet or talent.
Second, why would the hive get industry and growth? A bonus to Growth is represented mechanically as a reduction in the number of nutrients required for a base to grow. As for Industry, morgan seem like a more logical choice than the hive because their bases are all companies.
Now I thought the Hive should get Probe and Police because they are "security minded" and want to"properly control their followers"
I agreed with the efficency bonus for the gaians but was undecided on their second bonus. I thought Growth would fit well because of her background in agriculture and biology.
The peacekeepers should probably get a bonus to Talent. Beyond that I am uncertain.
So what do you guys think?
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It makes sense that a society of True Believers would be difficult for intelligence agents to penetrate -fanatics would be tough to subvert or interrogate, thus the probe bonus- but those same Believers would not tend to better spies themselves, being weirdoes by outsider standards. No idea what the best way to deal with that is.
A smart and credible take on the Hive I've read had them rather True Believers themselves - the population is devoted to the leader and the group, and the ideas and ideals thereof. They derive from an east Asian cultural tradition, with all that implies. They work furiously, are shy about asserting their personal, individual needs, and demand less a minimum of resources diverted to personal/individual comfort. So in that light, industry and growth make sense. My only quibble is wondering at how Yang was able to recruit/train a populace with such a perfect culture/world view/belief system for making his system work so well, as it's far beyond any Earth culture in innate suitability for making his authoritarian system work.
For a green faction, the Gaians are already improbably good at pop-booming. Lots of babies eat lots of food and take lots of space and make lots of poop - greens ought to be rather adverse to quick growth, or they're really crappy greens.
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You make a good point about the Gaian's and population growth. In the case of the believer's, how does giving them immunity to Mindcontrol and a bonus to Growth sound? In regards to the spartan's, I felt they should get a bonus not only to Morale but also something like support. The university was obviously overused in the original SMAC. However, I think they should have reduced hurry costs.
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I think with the Believers, you think about family values and discourage birth control, and you get big families. Easy to justify Growth. Likewise immunity to mind control, as Miriam already stitched that one up.
Makes sense for Spartans and University.
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If you are correct, then I will throw some idea's around.
First, I felt that the believer's getting a social bonus to probe makes no sense. What is it about their faction that would increase their security measures? Instead I was thinking she should get a bonus to something like planet or talent.
Second, why would the hive get industry and growth? A bonus to Growth is represented mechanically as a reduction in the number of nutrients required for a base to grow. As for Industry, morgan seem like a more logical choice than the hive because their bases are all companies.
Now I thought the Hive should get Probe and Police because they are "security minded" and want to"properly control their followers"
I agreed with the efficency bonus for the gaians but was undecided on their second bonus. I thought Growth would fit well because of her background in agriculture and biology.
The peacekeepers should probably get a bonus to Talent. Beyond that I am uncertain.
So what do you guys think?
The Hive's bonus to Growth is due to the fact that Yang is from China and in the 90s the common perspective that people had on China was rooted in their massive population growth. Moreover Yang is a social engineer and it would be in the interests of his social experiments to encourage his citizens to reproduce. The industry bonus is a consequence of that-- more people means more workers, and Yang doesn't really have any compunctions against working his people to the bone ("What do I care for your suffering? Pain is nothing more than information before the senses.")
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Your take on why they did it originally makes sense. However, that arguement falls apart when it comes to that perpection in the 90's. I know that the chinese single child policy has been in effect since the late 70's in order to help control population growth. On a related point, in game, it always seemed odd that yang never got any inherent bonuses related to police, especially since the faction's original descriptive adjective was the big brother.
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Sorry if I came across as being snide in some of my previous posts. I must say that I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read and/or respond to my posts. :-[
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Nah, it's all good. One of the main reasons why, in terms of the Hive at least, why Firaxis didn't give them a Police bonus is because they intended Police State to be chosen, and while the Hive is quite authoritarian the faction ideal is that of social experimentation: Yang is trying to find the perfect society, utopia through social engineering. He legitimately does want to create a paradise, a utopia for him and his followers; it's just that he realizes in order to find it he must experiment to find the correct conditions to determine what is best for him and his people. And that he must also control his followers better then the other factions do, as for as long as they exist his quest for utopia will not be left alone and will be constantly interfered with.
So in short, he's very open to all sort of societies except democratic: which goes against his control, which he see's must be as a constant in his experimentation, and for it to work properly.
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Good stuff - the Yang we hear in tech quotes is more than JUST a callous dictator - he's a man in search of perfection, both personal and in the shape of his society. He obviously fascinated by human limits, and finding a way past them. One could easily imagine his ideas taking a slightly different shape.
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Mhm... I would actually like Yang more if he realized that discipline alone doesn't develop a person, compassion and empathy also does. I think he's well intentioned, and I don't mind a bit of discipline in a society or personal life, but without any sort of love, empathy or caring exhibited there is a bit of a berift in personal development. If you want to be a totalitarian leader, sure you want your followers to submit to your rule, and in this case Yang is such for his own dreams of achieving utopia, but if you truly want citizens who are going to be as productive, intelligent and loyal as they can be, showing a little bit of compassion towards them is not a sign of weakness, rather its a sign of strength that you are human as well and thus they can truly relate to you, which makes them feel a lot happier following you.
Of course I don't believe in Yang's system myself, but as for Yang himself, I do respect. I think he can be a ruthless and amoral monster at times with his social experiments, but he does have a very good sense of discipline and devotion to his ideal. Which is something rather commendable.
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Oh, I would never go so far as to try to claim that Yang was right - only that part of his motivational set is being all he can be, and his society being all it can - trying to find better ways. I can get behind that part of his motivations without approving his ideas about execution.
And to add on from your ideas about leadership, Jarl, exactly so - it takes more for a leader to be gentle and persuade instead of order. If I was a rival faction leader, when I wanted to taunt him and get his goat, I'd tell him his need for total control was a dead giveaway of personal weakness...
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So I was thinking about the University's agenda and how part of it is free flow of information. I feel that might fit the keeper's agenda better. The university's agenda would then become "Research unfettered by external motives". What is your opinion on this idea.
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The University is somewhat along the lines of that, but the University is primarily concerned with the general advancement of knowledge and science, and that our goal as humanity should be to advance ourselves as best as we can regardless of the costs. They are similar to the Hive in a sense in that they are willing to conduct experiments, morality regardless, the only difference is the reasoning and application. Yang is trying to find Utopia through social experimentation, and the University is a lot more direct and scientific: They are conducting experiments, on people or otherwise (but not just on people obviously) to further the overall advancement of humankind.
They are more about the progression of information, over the free flow of it.
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That applies to Zak and Lal's blurbs very well. Lal's faction blurb begins "As the Americans learned so painfully at the end of the 20th century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny." Therefore they would be the ones stuck with the Probe penalty, while Zak should get hit with something else to reflect the fact that all he cares about is Research. Maybe -Morale?
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Zak's drones represent the discontent of his people well, but we must also remember that Zak's followers are some of humanity's brightest individuals, and they truly believe in the advancement of knowledge and thus fighting to defend it, but what I think the University should have is a behavior modification over morale: Which can both help and hinder them. They are more prone to commit atrocities, and thus use "experimental weapons" on "test subjects."
Also for another penalty, one could have -1 Support (instead of -1 Morale) because of all the scientific equipment and resources it takes to supply, feed and maintain the operations of "ivory tower intellectuals."
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The peacekeeper's opening blurb is where I got the idea to give him that bonus. Also regarding the university, I was thinking - Growth due to the fact that he focuses on research rather than population growth. I might as well start posting some of my files. Just be aware that these are not the final prodcut and as such are a work in progress.
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The rest of them are ready to look at.
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Does anyone have comments, suggestions, recommendations or ideas?
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I'll have to overview it thoroughly before I can do that. I do have a question though: For the Alt. factions will you also have a need for alternate artwork/bases?
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I'll have to overview it thoroughly before I can do that. I do have a question though: For the Alt. factions will you also have a need for alternate artwork/bases?
I have already created some custom logos for the alternate factions. These are stickied on the theory of everything board. Also, I did not plan on making alternate bases. However, you are more than welcome to make alternate bases and improve the logos. If you do, then obviously you will be credited for the work.
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I did not plan to make alternate bases simply because I lack the expertise needed to make good base art.
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Well, I believe you have seen mine and other's work: If you do want alternate bases let me know and I'll see what I can do.
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Well, I believe you have seen mine and other's work: If you do want alternate bases let me know and I'll see what I can do.
If that was an offer, than I accept it with a big thank you.
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The interest percentage equals the number of bases owned when you set the INTEREST bonus to zero in the faction file. Also a faction's units become immune to negative morale modifiers when you set the bonus named MORALE to zero in a faction file.
I have forgotten so many tricks. ???
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Perhaps we could start by re-making the believers/conclave base art? Their current base art reminds me of primitive rock shelters.
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Right, I'll see what I can do.
Also, turn off your message blocking option, I can't reply if I am blocked from messaging ;lol
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If you look here http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;cat=17 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;cat=17) at all the files named Bases, all have an illo of the contents - they're all collections of structure I cut out of other games, already laid out to drop the whole row into the faction .pcx, add shields and water foam and the like. Pretty easy to do up a set in under half an hour if you find one you like as-is. Maybe go have a look?
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Right, I'll see what I can do.
Also, turn off your message blocking option, I can't reply if I am blocked from messaging ;lol
Ok JarlWolf, I changed my personal messaging settings.
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The interest percentage equals the number of bases owned when you set the INTEREST bonus to zero in the faction file. Also a faction's units become immune to negative morale modifiers when you set the bonus named MORALE to zero in a faction file.
I have forgotten so many tricks. ???
Those are both things I did not know. Would you be interested in putting together a faction text editing guide, mostly focusing on the bonuses available for the wiki (I can do formatting)? The existing ones I know of have some inaccuracies and missing information.
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The interest percentage equals the number of bases owned when you set the INTEREST bonus to zero in the faction file. Also a faction's units become immune to negative morale modifiers when you set the bonus named MORALE to zero in a faction file.
I have forgotten so many tricks. ???
Those are both things I did not know. Would you be interested in putting together a faction text editing guide, mostly focusing on the bonuses available for the wiki (I can do formatting)? The existing ones I know of have some inaccuracies and missing information.
Yes I can, ete.
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Excellent, would you like to post a thread? You're also welcome to work directly on wiki if you're comfortable with that, just click here (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/index.php?title=Faction.txt_editing_guide&action=edit&redlink=1) to make the page.
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Excellent, would you like to post a thread? You're also welcome to work directly on wiki if you're comfortable with that, just click here (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/index.php?title=Faction.txt_editing_guide&action=edit&redlink=1) to make the page.
After fighting off a hijack :D, I am ready to continue.
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So for morgan, I was thinking of giving him impunity to free market. However, I thought Morgan was supposed to be some kind of interstellar empire builder that manipulated and outcompeted his competitors using unfair bussiness pratices. What do you think?
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So for morgan, I was thinking of giving him impunity to free market. However, I thought Morgan was supposed to be some kind of interstellar empire builder that manipulated and outcompeted his competitors using unfair bussiness pratices. What do you think?
Impunity to Free Market wouldn't work, as Free Market's penalties are what prevents it from being objectively the best economic option for Builders, and Morgan is the best builder. If he had this he'd run away with virtually every game.
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So for morgan, I was thinking of giving him impunity to free market. However, I thought Morgan was supposed to be some kind of interstellar empire builder that manipulated and outcompeted his competitors using unfair bussiness pratices. What do you think?
Impunity to Free Market wouldn't work, as Free Market's penalties are what prevents it from being objectively the best economic option for Builders, and Morgan is the best builder. If he had this he'd run away with virtually every game.
Do you have any ideas on what I should give him?
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I had an idea. Perhaps I should give him a free unit at the start :-\.
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Honestly what you have looks pretty solid. Frankly part of the reason I think why a lot of that wasn't given to Morgan already is because Free Market already hits him with heavy planet and drone penalties, so you're making that part of his job even worse. Interest 0 may infact be utterly broken since interest even at very small numbers can have a significant effects, and if Morgan manages even to get 10 bases he could have so much wealth that little else would matter.
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Okay, then here is the current spartan faction file. Please tell me if you think they should be any changes made to it.
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Okay, then here is the current spartan faction file. Please tell me if you think they should be any changes made to it.
You're giving them an extra scout when they start with a rover?
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Okay, then here is the current spartan faction file. Please tell me if you think they should be any changes made to it.
You're giving them an extra scout when they start with a rover?
That is correct. They have been described as being "armed to the teeth".
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Wy not a second rover then? Or a Unity chopper?
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A second rover would not feel very unique. However, a unity chopper could work and fits pretty well with the flavor.
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[quopte]+1 SUPPORT: {Survivalist engineers readily improvise materials.}
Hurry action costs 110% of normal: {Survialist tendencies make finding spare materials diffucult}[/quote]
Aren't these kind of contradictory? Wouldn't they just improvise in the absence of required material?
The idea for the Spartans is that their troops are the elite, but there are not a lot of them. That's why they originally had a negative Industry penalty, because it prevented them deploying a large army and required that they stick to small, elite bands. Santiago talks endlessly about the value of highly trained specialists over superior numbers, so deviating from that I think is a bad idea.
+Support isn't necessarily counter to that philosophy, but I have a hard time justifying being able to support a large army with not being able to build one.
I do like the +Labs bonus, however, for the reason that you cited. Santiago falls behind in the tech race all to often, blunting somewhat the efficacy of her units, and that might offset it some.
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War is such a driver of hard science/engineering research...
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Deleted
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Police State, DocSec, ++POLICE, +PROBE, --EFFIC, -SUPPORT
Democratic, EthCalc, ++RESEARCH, ++INDUSTRY, --PROBE, --GROWTH
I don't quite see where the justification for penalizing Support for Police State comes from. Wouldn't an authoritative dictatorship based around control desire to support a standing army?
The Democratic penalties seem completely random, except for the Probe penalty.
Honestly I'm not sure why you're really changing these at all other than just to make changes. The Engineering options already in place are well balanced against each other, in my opinion.
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I'd welcome these factions onto the wiki when ready. Cool project.
And echoing Sigma about changing SE stuff being maybe best left alone, it's really hard to balance things with two different sets of SE options at once and your factions will get more play if they can be dropped into an existing game and work right.
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Okay I get the message, leave the social engineering table alone. In other news, I have ,except for the datalinks, pretty much got the factions laid out for bonuses and such. So attached to this post will be the keepers, gaians, and conclave. As always, please tell me what you think about these faction files.
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I ultimately decided to give the keepers an agenda of free flow of information instead of Democracy. Keep the opinions coming.
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The problem with giving the Peacekeepers the ideal of the free flow of information is that is what ;roze; and her entire faction are based on. ;lal; is not only about the freedom of information, but also the freedom of choice within a society of humanitarian law. ;roze; is more of the free flow of information and of breaking down all barriers that prohibit personal freedoms.
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She's an anarchist and he's, conversely, a bureaucrat. They're not so much about the free flow of information, despite what he says..
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Fine, regardless, I still think the faction rule techshare fits him well.
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What do you think about the conclave getting the TALENT special rule? I think it complements their +2 Growth.
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After some testing, I have determined that the spartans need to have their power level tweaked. They basically steamrolled the other AI's and almost took over the world. Imagine this face ;santi; posted everywhere. 'shivers'.
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What do you think about the conclave getting the TALENT special rule? I think it complements their +2 Growth.
I think it fits.
Talents in a theocratic setup would be the religious subleaders like priests, deacons, monks/nuns and so on. And probably blessed with alot more reverence towards them then in most other factions.
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So I think the gaians are pretty well balanced. The only thing left is to fill in the blanks for the datalinks and I am looking for suggestions.
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Also, what do you think about adding some base names to each faction from the base name collection project?
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I think you can never go wrong with more base names. You may want to supplant the first one on the list with something new, actually, to make a different headquarters base and underline that this ain't your dad's Believers...
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Actually, I made the conclave's founding base the Great Conclave.
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During my test plays, I have noticed that the morgan AI handles -1 talent a lot better than the hive or university. I find this very interesting.
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During my test plays, I have noticed that the morgan AI handles -1 talent a lot better than the hive or university. I find this very interesting.
Maybe a case of more cash to spare on the psych slider?
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What do you think of morgan getting -1 Efficency? Do you think the conclave should have Immunity to negative support? Also, I believe that police state and power should get -Economy.
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What do you think of morgan getting -1 Efficency? Do you think the conclave should have Immunity to negative support? Also, I believe that police state and power should get -Economy.
On the Morgans, good idea. "Fred Market" without real competition (like on Planet) has a tendency towards a sort of bureaucracy.
Nice twist as well on the immunity of the Believers. Fervor tends to give supplements from the common people towards the greater goal.
Not so sure about minus economy though. Chinese booming economy seems to do well in Police State environment, and the US economy (power) is still in the world's top three.
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So what do you think of the new faction versus the old one:
The Lord's Believers:
TECH, Psych, SOCIAL, --RESEARCH, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, ++SUPPORT, SOCIAL, -PLANET, FANATIC, 0
^+25% Bonus when attacking enemies, from strength of convictions.
^+1 PROBE: {Devout believers difficult to brainwash}
^+2 SUPPORT: {Citizens eager to defend faith}
^-2 RESEARCH: {Suspicious of secular science}
^-1 PLANET: {Believe Planet is their promised land}
^Accumulates NO research points until MY 2110.
^{May not use Knowledge value in Social Engineering.}
Versus:
The Lord's Conclave:
TECH, Psych, SOCIAL, ++GROWTH, SOCIAL, --RESEARCH, IMMUNITY, SUPPORT, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1, FUNGMINERALS, -1, MINDCONTROL, 0, FANATIC, 0, TALENT, 4, TECHCOST, 110,
^+1 GROWTH: {Followers are eager to convert others to their belief system.}
^-1 RESEARCH: {Followers are suspicious of secular science.}
^Is immune to negative social support effects: {Followers willing contribute and support troops}
^+1 Nutrients from Fungus: {Believe Planet is the Garden of Eden.}
^-1 Minerals from Fungus: {Followers do not want to destroy or damage their Garden of Eden.}
^Bases and units are immune to enemy subversion: {Followers are impossible to re-brain wash.}
^+25% bonus when attacking: {From strength of convictions.}
^Starts with a extra talent at each base and gets an additional talent for every four population: {Represents their religious caste.}
^Techonology costs are increased by 25%: {Followers often lack expertise in scientific endeavors.}
^{Can not use the Knowledge Value in social engineering.}
So what do you think?
Edit: changed +2 Growth and -2 Research to +1 Growth and -1 Research respectively. Increased tech cost to 25%.
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Next up is The Morgan Conglomerate versus the old Morgan Industries:
Morgan Industries:
TECH, Indust, ENERGY, 100, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, POPULATION, 3, COMMERCE, 1, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT
^+1 ECONOMY: {Industrial conglomerate}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers have expensive tastes}
^COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
^Begins with 100 extra energy credits.
^Need HAB COMPLEX for bases to exceed size 4: {Creature comforts at a premium}
^{May not use Planned Economics.}
The Morgan Conglomerate:
TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -EFFIC, SOCIAL, -TALENT, FUNGENERGY, 1, PENALTY, Green, ENERGY, 100, INTEREST, 0, MORALE, -1,
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Is a industrial conglomerate.}
^+1 ECONOMY: {Obtains extra energy due to the production and selling of goods}
^-1 EFFIC: {Economic bureucrachy creates waste.}
^-1 TALENT: {Soft on Ethics.}
^+1 Energy Production in Fungus: {Is willing to harvest native life for energy.}
^Double the negative social effects for running Green Economics: {Goes against world view.}
^+100 Energy Credits at the start of a new game: {Has extensive assets.}
^Gets % interest on energy reserves equal to the number of bases they control: {Intelligent and productive investing.}
^-1 Morale: {Creature comforts lower troop morale.}
^{Can not use the Power value in social engineering.}
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The Lord's Conclave:
TECH, Psych, SOCIAL, ++GROWTH, SOCIAL, --RESEARCH, IMMUNITY, SUPPORT, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1, FUNGMINERALS, -1, MINDCONTROL, 0, FANATIC, 0, TALENT, 4, TECHCOST, 110,
^+2 GROWTH: {Followers are eager to convert and accept others to their belief system.}
^-2 RESEARCH: {Followers are suspicious of secular science.}
^Is immune to negative social support effects: {Followers willing contribute and support troops.}
^+1 Nutrients from Fungus: {Believe Planet is the Garden of Eden.}
^-1 Minerals from Fungus: {Do not want to destroy or damage their Garden of Eden.}
^Bases and units are immune to enemy subversion: {Followers are impossible to re-brain wash.}
^+25% bonus when attacking: {From strength of convictions.}
^Starts with a extra talent at each base and gets an additional talent for every four population: {Represents their religious caste.}
^Techonology Costs are increased by 10%: {Followers often lack expertise in scientific endeavors.}
^They accumulate no research points until MY 2110 {Followers are focused on trying to set up their religious system.}
^{May not use Knowledge value.}
So what do you think?
I'd keep it at +1 growth. It's not because the people of the Conclave are eager to convert and accept, those on the receiving end are. ;)
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Now it is The Human Labyrinth versus the old Human Hive:
The Human Hive:
TECH, DocLoy, FACILITY, 4, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, --ECONOMY, IMMUNITY, EFFIC
^+1 GROWTH: {Rapid population growth}
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Brutal serfdom}
^-2 ECONOMY: {Little political freedom}
^Underground bunkers: {Free PERIMETER DEFENSE at each base}
^{May not use Democratic politics.}
The Human Labyrinth:
TECH, Physic, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, -GROWTH, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, ROBUST, EFFIC, POPULATION, -3, TECHCOST, 75, RESEARCH, -1,
^+1 PROBE: {Covert survelliance makes infilitration diffcult.}
^+1 SUPPORT: {Military is supported through government programs.}
^-1 GROWTH: {Underground bases have difficulty producing food.}
^-1 ECONOMY: {Populace lacks most economic freedoms.}
^Faction gets halved negative efficency effects from social engineering choices: {Government is constantly trying to improve its efficency.}
^Bases can exceed populations limits by three: {Underground housing can fit a lot more people.}
^Techonology costs are reduced by 25%: {Faction leaders have extensive knowledge on many subjects.}
^-1 Laboratories at each base: {The government's research is often done outside the laboratory.}
^{Can not use Democratic Politics in social engineering.}
So once again what do you think? Also this faction is one reason I wanted to add -1 Economy to Police State or Power.
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Now it is time to compare the Keepers of Wisdom to the old Peacekeeping Forces.
Peacekeeping Forces:
TECH, Biogen, TALENT, 4, SOCIAL, -EFFIC, POPULATION, -2, VOTES, 2
^-1 EFFICIENCY: {U.N. style bureaucracy}
^Extra TALENT for every four citizens: {Attracts intellectual elite}
^May exceed HAB COMPLEX population requirements by 2.
^Receives DOUBLE votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader.
^{May not use Police State Politics.}
Keepers of Wisdom:
TECH, Biogen, SOCIAL, +TALENT, SOCIAL, -PROBE, VOTES, 2, TECH, 1, FUNGNUTRIENT, -1, COMMERCE, 1, SHARETECH, 3, INTEREST, -5
^+1 TALENT: {Humanitarian policies attract intellectual elite.}
^-1 PROBE: {Government information networks are vulnerable to infilitration.}
^Receives double the votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader: {Is a charismatic individual.}
^Recieves an additional techonology of their choice at the start of a new game: {The faction leaders took information from the Unity Datacore.}
^-1 Nutrient production in Fungus squares: {Government actively promotes the preservation and conservation of Planet's native life.}
^+1 Energy income from treaties, pacts and loans: {Government agencies promote cooperation and trading.}
^Automatically discovers any techonology known by at least three other factions: {Their government promotes the free exchange of information.}
^Negative 5% interest on their energy credit reserves each year: {This stems from their government's ineffiency and unnecessary spending.}
^{Can not use the Thought Control Future Society in social engineering.}
As always, please tell me what you think and give any pertinent suggestions, ideas or comments that might improve these factions.
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The new spartan federation versus the old spartan federation:
Old Spartan Federation:
TECH, Mobile, FREEPROTO, 0, SOCIAL, ++MORALE, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY
^+2 MORALE: {Well-armed survivalist movement}
^+1 POLICE: {Highly disciplined followers}
^-1 INDUSTRY: {Extravagant weapons are costly}
^Prototype units do not cost extra minerals.
^{May not use Wealth value in Social Engineering.}
New Spartan Federation:
TECH, Mobile, SOCIAL, +MORALE, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -PLANET, UNIT, 12, FREEPROTO, 0, RESEARCH, 1, HURRY, 125,
^+1 MORALE: {Well trained troops.}
^+1 POLICE: {Highly disciplined followers tolerate some government restrictions.}
^-1 PLANET: {The faction's survivalist goals often indirectly damage or kill Planet's native life.}
^-1 INDUSTRY: {Military weapons are expensive to mass produce.}
^Starts with an extra Unity 'Copter and a Unity Rover instead of a scout patrol: {Well armed military survivalist group.}
^Additional prototype costs are reduced to zero: {Researchers are trying to constantly improve their equipment.}
^+1 Laboratories at each base: {Bases contain additional military research facilities.}
^Hurrying costs 125% of normal: {Industry often lacks the neccessary expertise to hurry efficently.}
^{Can not use the Wealth Value in Social Engineering.}
Just one more faction left to post. Please give me feedback on what you think. Once this is done, the only thing left in the faction text files to finish is the base names.
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This is the second to last faction posting. This time it is Stepdaughters of Gaia compared to the Gaia's Stepdaughters
Gaia's Stepdaughters:
TECH, Ecology, SOCIAL, -MORALE, SOCIAL, -POLICE, SOCIAL, ++EFFIC, SOCIAL, +PLANET, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1
^+1 PLANET: {Environmental safeguards; can capture mindworms}
^+2 EFFICIENCY: {Experience with life systems & recycling}
^-1 MORALE: {Pacifist tendencies}
^-1 POLICE: {Freedom loving}
^+1 Nutrients in fungus squares
^{May not use Free Market economics.}
Stepdaughter's of Gaia:
TECH, Ecology, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, -POLICE, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, FUNGENERGY, 1, PSI, 25, MORALE, 0, POPULATION, 3,
^+1 EFFICIENCY: {Followers have extensive experience with life systems and recycling.}
^+1 PLANET: {Faction has in place and practices using enviromental safeguards.}
^-1 POLICE: {Followers are freedom loving.}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers are suspicious of large military deployments.}
^+1 Energy production in Fungus squares: {Extensive study of Planet's ecosystems allow them to produce extra energy from Xenofungus.}
^+25% during PSI Combat: {Troops have a deep emotional connection for the well being of Planet.}
^Immune to negative morale modifiers: {Government values and promotes well being of loyal troops.}
^The population limit at each of their bases is decreased by three: {Faction's enviromental policies limit space for population growth.}
^{Can not use the Free Market Economics in social engineering.}
Please tell me what you think.
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The last of the factions. This time it is the Society of Archons versus the University of Planet.
Society of Archons:
TECH, InfNet, SOCIAL, +RESEARCH, SOCIAL, -MORALE, IMPUNITY, Knowledge, FACILITY, 8, FUNGENERGY, -1, TERRAFORM, 0, HURRY, 75, DRONE, 4,
^+1 RESEARCH: {Brilliant research}
^-1 MORALE: {Engineers are not trained to be excellent soliders.}
^Free Network Nodes at each base: {Excellent laboratory facilities}
^Is immune to the negative effects of the Knowledge social choice: {Complements their faction's beliefs}
^-1 Energy production in Fungus: {Lacks understanding of native habitat which hinders extraction of energy}
^Hurrying costs 75% of normal: {Engineers hurry efficently}
^Cost to raise and lower land is halved: {Engineers readily improvise during terraforming operations}
^Additional drone at a base for every four population: {Lack of Ethics}
^{Can not use Fundamentalist politics in social engineering.}
University of Planet:
TECH, InfNet, TECH, 1, SOCIAL, ++RESEARCH, SOCIAL, --PROBE, DRONE, 4, FACILITY, 8
^+2 RESEARCH: {Brilliant research}
^-2 PROBE: {Academic networks vulnerable to infiltration}
^Free NETWORK NODE at every base
^One BONUS TECH at beginning of game
^Extra DRONE for every four citizens {(lack of ethics)}
^{May not use Fundamentalist Politics.}
This is the last faction stats I needed to post. Please give me input on these factions.
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My thoughts thus far:
The Conclave has some nice changes, though I am not sure the +1 Talent is fitting. I think a 1+ Police would be more suitable, as it shows the control a religious theocracy would have on its people and it's beliefs: Not only that, a dogmatic religion is going to unite people into policing themselves. I am sure that many of the forumites here can attest to religious indoctrination/religion being shoved on them throughout their lives.
The Human Labyrinth seems pretty good to me, no changes needed.
For the Archons, I am not sure why they don't understand native life, they research everything don't they? Sure Zakharov hates mindworms but you'll research something even if you hate it. I would instead give them a support drawback, to show that most of the resources are pooled towards research and experiments, while also symbolizing the distrust citizens would have on the gov't. (They don't want to be the next test subject right?)
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The Conclave has some nice changes, though I am not sure the +1 Talent is fitting.
Unfortunately, the +1 starting talent comes with using the extra talents per number of population rule. I can understand why the university would get a support penalty.
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Still, I don't quite understand how a theocracy that suppresses anything not related to faith or not faith friendly could encourage development and creativity. Sure, maybe not a lack of talents, but having more then usual in those conditions? I just don't see it to be frank.
Also, a question, do you want alternate art for all of these? Or just the conclave? Mind I don't mind if its the former, but I think it'd be better if we had a second artist (or more) jump on board, that's a pretty big undertaking for little old me.
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Could you update post #2 so people can see the current status of all the factions in one place?
I'll go over them all for balance with respect to the official factions, which I assume you're aiming for?
Spartans: hm.. Lost a Morale and a Planet point, extra hurry cost, gained a copter and +1 lab point per base.
Pretty sure this would be massively underwhelming. Spartans originally are pretty standard power level, decent rushers, slightly meh but not terrible builders. The real killer here would be the Hurry cost (hurried units cost them 1.375 as much as a standard faction thanks to Indust and Hurry penalties), though halving their main bonus, stopping them collecting wormcash so easily with - Planet, and giving them very little in return is not going to help. They need a buff.
Also, it would be really handy if you could make their name different. Having exactly the same name (and text file names, maybe add alt to the text file name of each?) will cause all sorts of name conflicts for my custom factions project.
Believers:
Lots going on here.. hard to be sure, but it feels like it should roughly balance out. They're not going to be rushing as hard without the support bonus, but can run demo and still have an army plus have other buildery bonuses. Quite a different faction from original, but probably approximately balanced.
Morgan:
Horrifyingly broken in human hands, possibly beyond any other faction bar some of BU's designed to get every bonus. The energy interest will give them impossibly huge reserves if a player specifically tries to maximize it. Even if not for that, they have an /amazing/ set of bonuses for a builder and insignificant penalties.
The Human Labyrinth:
Really quite weak, especially for a human. A few bonuses (Probe is meh, Support is kind of nice, bigger bases evens out with low growth, tech cost is partly canceled, especially early, by negative labs), but removing their immunity to ineffic and dropping their growth is going to hurt them a lot, because now they can't pop boom at all (even with GAs) and.. they can't get even decent growth. Most factions run Demo for +2 most of the game and Demo/Planned for +4. These guys are stuck at +1 with planned, and doing that with PS which they also want gives them a crippling -2 Effic.
Keepers:
Probably mostly balanced, though there's a lot going on here. Negative interest is a much smaller deal than positive, because you can keep energy low to avoid too much loss, but AI may struggle.
Gaians:
Stronger worm rush due to Psi, weaker builder due to a few things. Probably not too far off balanced.
Archons:
Hurry bonus is a big deal, so is removing both of their probe penalties (faction and Knowledge). Dropping 1 Research and some minor things does not compensate for this, and they were already an excellent faction. Probably moderately overpowered.
Sorry some of those were a bit short, I'm a little tight for time right now.
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For the most recent updates look at post #2 in this topic.
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I was having a moment of inspiration when I gave the gaians -2 Growth and Robust Growth :D.
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I am very ;excite; that this project is going somewhere postive. Also, I greatly appreciate the continued support from the community.
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Right, I am coming close to finishing the initial bases (walls still have to be added) but I've patched up and created the majority of the bases so far for ;miriam;. I only have to do the later stages of her Water bases, and then I am complete with that set and leave someone to configure the walls in. Which set do you want me to do next? Also, do you want me to input her custom, alternate faction logo's and maybe a different picture, or keep them the same/her picture the same?
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I can handle inputting custom bases from another file. Also, I can put in all of the custom logos.
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Right. I'll post my work for you in a little bit. Just got to finish up the last stages of these bases.
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Made a lot of changes based upon your feed back. So please comment on what you see in Post#2.
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Here is the download for the Believer bases. All you have to do is copy and overlay walls, if you are using GIMP, just copy the bases out to another window that has all layers deleted, do colour select on the purple and then you can copy that and place as you need.
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Brief comments:
Morgan is less absurdly broken, though 5% interest is still a big deal with his economic bonuses, every credit saved 50 years is worth 11. And he still has pretty minor negatives compared to his awesome Econ/Indust bonuses.
Spartans still suck, they need a significant bonus to compensate for that hurry modifier you gave them, and the halving of their Morale bonus.
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Changed morgan's interest from 5% to 4%. Reduced Spartan's Hurry penalty from 125% to 110% and decreased the University hurry bonus from 75% to 90%.
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Here is the download for the Believer bases. All you have to do is copy and overlay walls, if you are using GIMP, just copy the bases out to another window that has all layers deleted, do colour select on the purple and then you can copy that and place as you need.
I definitely like the alternate believer bases. The only thing I noticed was that the water bases did not have any water under them. Is this part of your design?
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My only not about the AltBeliever bases is that they look Roman Catholic rather than American evangelical, which is Miriam's backstory. Living in North Carolina I drive by churches every day that look eerily like Believer bases.
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My only not about the AltBeliever bases is that they look Roman Catholic rather than American evangelical, which is Miriam's backstory. Living in North Carolina I drive by churches every day that look eerily like Believer bases.
I just knew their was something slightly off about them but I could not put my finger on it. I agree that they do not fit her backstory. Regardless, I still think they look awesome.
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My only not about the AltBeliever bases is that they look Roman Catholic rather than American evangelical, which is Miriam's backstory. Living in North Carolina I drive by churches every day that look eerily like Believer bases.
So then in other words, like a cave or primitive rock shelter ;)?
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On to a more serious matter, would giving the spartans 2 additional labs at each base instead of reducing thier hurry penalty?
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Living in North Carolina
My butha!
We don't know that much detail about Miriam's precise background - she's from Georgia and the bare cross does say protestant, but there could be a strong Episcopalian influence behind the church architecture. Protestants with the resources sometimes build giant glass palaces and the like, even very fundamentalist, off the mainstream, protestants. Not telling what Space Protestants might do.
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Yeah, and mind its hard trying to find "purely American protestant" style buildings that fit a space age genre. I avoided giant statues of Christ and stuff like that and tried to give them a more protestant look: I based a lot of it on English churches and why I went for domes and such over Gothic.
But even so there is still some lingering Catholicism, but then again that's what happens when you have a single organization control the majority of a religion for so many at least 2 thousand years.
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Like I said before, I still think the artwork is great. However, you never answered my question. Did you forget to add some water effects around the water bases or was it part of your design to leave it absent?
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There is water effects on the portion of it I meant: The little tower has some water breeching up on it.
The other structure is meant to be like that, it's suggested it goes underwater a bit. I can modify it and add some lines/teal base, but it may look odd.
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There is water effects on the portion of it I meant: The little tower has some water breeching up on it.
The other structure is meant to be like that, it's suggested it goes underwater a bit. I can modify it and add some lines/teal base, but it may look odd.
Okay, I see now. :D. No need for any additions. I PMed BUncle to see if he knew of any place where I could get the original bases defenses.
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Check the downloads section, I also suggest asking him for the link to the instructions on how to put in the walls. That or get him or someone to do it for you.
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I like having little art jobs to do for people, but I like empowering them to take care of it for themselves even more - that's how I taught my elderly mother computers. Back in a second with a link.
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=21 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=21) Towards the bottom is shield placing technique.
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On to a more serious matter, would giving the spartans 2 additional labs at each base instead of reducing thier hurry penalty help?
They still need more help, imo. Give them more research as well as Hurry to 110%
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The things going through my head as I try to apply these base shields (in order):
1. After :read: I try :stickpoke:
2. If :stickpoke: fails, I ;grrr
3. Next I ;aaa ;aaa
4. Afterwards I get ;clenchedteeth
5. Once I calm down I say :ok: and go hit my head against a :wall:
Lastly either I:
6a: suceed and go ;woohoo
6b: or fail and say ;jesus
I suspect it will end up at 6b.
(just kidding about banging my head against a wall)
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Hehehe... you see why I avoid vanilla walls like the plague now.
;lol
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6b: ;jesus
I suspect it will end up at 6b.
;lol
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Would you like to see my attempts so far? I will warn you that they are not pretty :(.
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I think they're pretty, thought the first obviously reduced badly, alas.
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Sea Bases Defense 1 #2, 3 and 4. Also, I do not know what to do with the land bases :dunno:.
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If you go back to the first ten or so pages of the Graphics thread, I posted about a billion beautiful structures I cut out of Age of Mythology - they are gorgeous, especially the wonders, which don't reduce worth a poop, either.
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So here it is. :tada:
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That there's some good-looking bases, sir. ;b;
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I guess it is time for me to put on my artist hat and find a way to solve the land base issue.
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For now, I plan to finish the faction text files and then decide if I want to add custom bases.
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Right, if you need any help let me know. I forgot my logo again but, it honestly doesn't matter xD
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What if I were to swap the keeper's interest penalty for the Spartan's hurry penalty. Do you think that would help balance them.
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Moved question to a new topic.
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By the way, ete, I changed the spartans name from Spartan Federation to The Spartan Federation.
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Here are my finished faction files. As always, I am open to suggestions for improvement. Attached to each of them will be their alternate logos files. This way you can simply download the appropriate files and plop them into your game. Also, note that I used the old vehicle colorings in the .pcx files. I will probably start another topic for my alternate alpha(x) mod.
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These are the Conclave faction files.
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This is the Labyrinth faction files.
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These are the spartan faction files.
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Next up are the Morgan faction files.
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Third to last is the Keepers faction files.
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Second to last is the Archons Faction files.
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Lastly, this is the Gaians faction files.
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As always, I appreciate pertinent feedback, comments, suggestions and ideas for improvement.
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Updated faction text files.
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Why do you keep editing your attachments?
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Because:
(a): I made changes to the text files that effected how they faction bonuses appeared in the datalinks.
(b): I like my attachments in a particular order.
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If someone would like to add these someone that is fine with me. You do not neccessarily need to give me credit. Also, I have greatly appreciated everyone's help.
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Could you make a zip file with everything and attach it to the opening post or second post? Downloading and placing like 28 imagines and text files is a lot less convenient than having it all in one zip.
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Here are the files in zip form. Also included is the alternate palette for the native lifeforms. I will attach it to the second post.
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Thanks! Perhaps add "alt" to the end or start of each file name, so that these don't overwrite people's existing factions? I'd rather be able to play with either original or these.
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Thanks! Perhaps add "alt" to the end or start of each file name, so that these don't overwrite people's existing factions? I'd rather be able to play with either original or these.
I will post the changes in a few minutes.
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Any new ideas? I have a few. First, perhaps, I should swap the hive's Impunity, Police state with immunity efficency. Also, I might swap the conclave's immunity support with impunity, fundametalist. What do you think?
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Sounds like a good swap for the Hive. Will change Mirriam a fair amount, make her less of a good builder because no free demo, but make war easier with free fundy.
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I want your honest opinion about the quality of my alternate logos (especially the morgan, labyrinth, believer, and university logos). Do you think I should re-design them from scratch? The reason I say this is because I see all of these other great logos made by other people and I feel like mine pale in comparison.
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Also, if other users think I need to redesign or make the logos, then I am definitely going to ask for help from this community to design and make the logos. My intention for involving the community, if they are willing, is so that most of the designers and perhaps users like them. Please tell me what your thoughts and opinions are on this topic.
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I really need to now other peoples opinions on whether you dislike, like, are indifferent or whatever about the current logo design. If you do not like them, then please help by giving some possible design suggestions.
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Patience, my young padiwan.
I really like what you've done - except, off the top of my head, the Conclave and Spartan logos aren't different enough from the originals, and thus look like (sorry) simply inferior versions. It's nothing you're incapable of fixing.
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One of the major reasons I have brought this up is because no matter how many times I redesign the Labyrinth Logo, I just can not seem to get the right feeling from it. I do not know if it simply something I keep doing or something else. So if anyone has an idea on how to improve them, then please tell me.
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Post just the logo, and I'll try to get on having a look today, and probably do a little fiddling in GIMP.
I've attached a very quick-and dirty idea draft about the Conclave - change the background shape from an omega to a church...
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I have many different designs that vary in size, shape and other qualities. Here are some samples plus the original design ideas.
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And here is one more variation of the logo.
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From all your derived incons, the University's and Morgan's look best to me.
The Hive's one is nice, but does remind me of a SW Tie fighter. ;)
From the other factions, the originals look better. :2c:
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I have some free time today, so I can start working on the changes to the logos. So more ideas on how they could be improved would be appreciated. Let me give some examples. For example, lets say that I wanted to make the eye in the labyrinth logo larger or by adding a scanlined version of the logos to the package.
On another topic, I think the labyrinth logo is supposed to be an eye inside of a maze with walls on each side of it. What do you think?
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Rounded walls? Dunno...
To me, besides my Tie impression, it reminds me of cat's eye.
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@Sigma, how did you make such amazing logos for your custom factions? If you would like to share some insight, I would be more than willing to listen.
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I can't think of anything specific that I do, but there are a few rules of thumb that I follow. Bear in mind that I do everything in GIMP, so if you have photoshop or something else the rules may be different.
1.) I always use PNGs as my source files. JPG artifacts are your worst enemy, because they prevent you from getting clean edges on your selections, and they muddy the colors. Even the cleanest looking jpg is going to have some measure of artifacting, so stick with PNGs.
2.) Learn how to use the Fuzzy Select and Color Select tools. The fuzzy select selects areas based on color, and the color select selects all of the objects in a layer that are the same color. More important, both have a "threshhold" scale, which determines how picky the tool is. The higher the threshhold, the wider the range of colors that the tool will grab. This is really useful for grabbing and cutting out sections of images.
3.) Pick images that are simple and clear, with only a few colors. Logos with lots of colors don't scale down well at all.
4.) Stroke to Selection a very handy tool for creating outlines of objects, in conjunction with the Fuzzy select. When you select an object, you can go to Edit-> Stroke to Selection to paint around the outline of your selection. Use only one pixel in size to keep it visible.
If there are any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
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How do you make typically make the second color used in scan lines?
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How do you make typically make the second color used in scan lines?
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=28 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=28)
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What do you think of this.
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I think it's very nice. It would be nicer without the black background.
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The only reason that i did not apply scanlines to my other works is that I never understood why in a futuristic Sci-Fi game you have degradation when you transmit images. :-\
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Because they had to clear the Unity before they were ready, and had to start over with a lot of tech.
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I have decided to make two versions of my alternate factions. One will have scanlines and the other will not. While I am scanlining the logos, I will probably make some improvements to them.
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Which one do you like better, the one with or without scan lines? :danc: Lal is now happy. Also if you look closely, you will notice that I moved the two button things closer to each other and made them equally distant from the center of the logo.
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This is the University/Archon Logo. Which one do you like better?
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You'd be better off posting cropped down versions of the .pcxs to avoid reduction instead of screenies. I can see a difference, but 100% shots might improve the view enough to get useful feedback.
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Here is a .pcx file with the university and peace non scanlined and scanlined report logos.
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In both cases, the scanlined ones.
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Which one of these morgan logo variants do you like better?
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I'd prefer .pngs at 100% so I don't have to open any files. Faster that way, and you'll get more people giving feedback...
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So does anyone have an opinion on which of those logos they like better in post #178? I really do appreciate feedback from the community. Also, I do plan to scanline it once I know which one most people like better.
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Does anyone have any ideas for improvement on the color(s) of my logos?
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What do you think of this version of the labyrinth logo? I find it slightly creepy and weird. Obviously it would be a work in progress and please give me your ideas, comments, suggestions on how to improve it. Also you can compare it to my previous version.
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The upper? It's striking, but I like the blue and black below better. That may all be in the colors. The eye at the center of the upper nicely evokes a Big Brother is Watching thing that fits Yang...
You have a nice design sense.
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How does it look now that I have scanlined it? Also, I did a hybrid version of the logo.
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I like it with scanlines - a reason I urge modders to go to the trouble is consistency - you may make a set that's intended to all be played together, but users will still use them separately in combination with the originals, and consistency with the Firaxis style matters then.
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Did Kilkakon ever make the male version of the blank 2 and blank 3 faction .pcxs? I hope he did so that ;morgan;, ;yang;, ;zak;, ;lal; and ever other male faction in this game do not have to endure another sudden gender change prodecure after being eradicated:).
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...You could copy/paste the male version half into the blank one you have, and save as "blankPCX(m)2.pcx" (and 3) or whatever. You really need versions of two or three shades of background to match logos, but one of each gender would do in a pinch...
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What I meant to say is that was a male version of those files ever made? The original faction files and the blank versions all have a female faction leader in the background.
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Firaxis made male and female versions in several color ranges, of course, but I only know of the blanks I've already posted. You could make some - you have the needed skills already.
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Which one do you like better? The one with the black border or the one without it? Also, I think this will be my last post in this topic until later today perhaps.
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I think with the border by a hair - and put the eye in.
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With the black border. And aye, use the eye. It's much better.
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Part of the community has spoken and I will do as they say.
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Which one do you think looks better? The one with the cresents is closer to the original design of the logo.
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Hmm; depends. The one with the crescents looks like a broadcast tower, and the one with disks looks like a stylized tree. I would choose crescents, absent any other reason to prefer one or the other.
-But money doesn't grow on trees, so a money tree would be an ironic logo. Maybe flip a coin?
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Hmm; depends. The one with the crescents looks like a broadcast tower, and the one with disks looks like a stylized tree. I would choose crescents, absent any other reason to prefer one or the other.
-But money doesn't grow on trees, so a money tree would be an ironic logo. Maybe flip a coin?
I think that the one with cresents makes more sense since the blurbs contain quite a few broadcasts through his Morganlink 3D live interviews.
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Mhm... I agree. The crescents overall look better and on another note, it could be a sort of joke/symbolism that Morgan has magnetic qualities of him, and his company magnetizes all of the profit.
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Perfect! I think I have finally found the right styles for both the morgan and keeper logos. I am posting my final examples of them. :) I am very happy with them now.
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;b;
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Which version of the archon logo do you like better?
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Upper.
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I think I might have had a serious accident with color on these logos. Please look at their names to see what I think.
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I think with the border by a hair - and put the eye in.
Is this what you meant when you said put the eye in?
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Yes. Excellent.
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I have only one question left regarding the archon logo, do you think it should be more rounded on the outside?
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Perhaps something like this? I shortened the corners on the outside of the logo to create a more rounded appearence.
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Either way is fine, but I think angled corners go with the wrench - sort of like the whole logo is a nut.
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So once again the labyrinth logo is pretty weird (think creepy). That eye...if you stare at it long enough it almost feels like it follows you...
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What other colors do you think I should make the Morgan Logo? I should probably color the cresents, the outer diamond, the inside diamond background and the building/inside diamond different colors. Please give suggestions.
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[shrugs] Yellow and black is fine. Yellow and green might be feasible, too.
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Any ideas for what I should do to modify the eradicated Morgan Logo?
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Is there anything special/different about those that I'm not thinking of?
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All of the orginal seven faction2.pcx files have a special effect applied to the logo. For example, the Believer logo has cracks in it. Another example is the Gaian logo which is sweating.
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I hadn't noticed.
How would one make a logo look poor? Stamp "Under New Management" or "Corporate Takeover" on it?
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Have it greyed out, or "closed up"
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How does this look?
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:D
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:tada:
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Make it just "BANKRUPT", I think.
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Taking into consideration both JarlWolf's and BUncle's suggestions, this is what I came up with.
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You could make "BANKRUPT" a lot bigger if you made the letters white or something and went across the widest part...
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Here is a picture of the morgan3.pcx file.
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Does anyone have some ideas for what I should do to modify the eradicated Archons and Keepers Logos? :help:
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What do you think of this? :help:
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Broken wrench - I like it a lot.
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I still need some more ideas for the keepers eradicated logo. I was thinking of making blood splatters on the logo but those did not turn out very well. I could also write on it but I already did that for the morgan logo. This is why I have asked for help.
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What would you say is the essential nature of the Keepers? What is their goal?
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There goal is to try and continue the orginal U.N. Mission to Alpha Centauri by reunifying the other factions under a strong central government and leader. Also, they wanted to continue the original ideals of the U.N. international organization.
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Set the logo on fire, or make a jagged crack through it.
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How about a wind blown effect?
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Mmaybe, but it's not clear enough what's going on there...
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I know what I am doing for the believers! ;woohoo I am going to make there logo into a mosaic.
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Shattered. Nice. ;b;
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How about an embossment?
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What would that look like?
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What would that look like?
Like the png two posts above.
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This? (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=6860)
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No, like the picture attached to this post.
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I think a simple soft glow should suffice in this case. I do not want it to over power the image, I simply want it to change it in someway for the worse. I think this particular filter gives the logo a washed out feeling.
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I still like the idea of inserting disunity into the logo of a faction about unity - maybe separate the two halves with a jagged break...
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Is this close to what you were thinking.
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Yeah, but jaggeder - maybe outline the broken edges to emphasize the separation.
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Is this jagged enough?
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Yeah.
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Now for the Labyrinth Logo. I was thinking of making the eye red or bloodshot. What do other users think?
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Oh, THAT is good thinking.
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I am not certain that I want to really change the actual design of the logo. After seeing the elongated eye and this one, I am now really uncertain. :scratch: I would like to know what people other than BUncle think about this particular issue. :help:
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If anyone ever asks ,especially when I am doing a project that is difficult, if I should "abort, retry or fail", I always choose retry. I may not retry a project right away, but I will do it at somepoint if it is worth re-doing.
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I am not certain that I want to really change the actual design of the logo. After seeing the elongated eye and this one, I am now really uncertain. :scratch: I would like to know what people other than BUncle think about this particular issue. :help:
;lol
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I am not certain that I want to really change the actual design of the logo. After seeing the elongated eye and this one, I am now really uncertain. :scratch: I would like to know what people other than BUncle think about this particular issue. :help:
;lol
What is so funny, BUncle? I have asked for other peoples opinions because I already know what you have said on this topic.
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That IS what's so funny. It's all good, man.
It's been a little slow this week, hasn't it?
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First, I think you deserve a :stickpoke:. Second, your right about it being slow and that pretty much only you have given feedback on my work. Third, what does that mean in the regards to what I should do with the logo? Finally, I personally am partial to the non-eloganated eye but also realize that the other one looks pretty good. So other opinions are always helpful.
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No, I just thought it was funny that you asked for other opinions. It's been slow in here today. I'm smiling when I say that.
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Hrm... I actually think a bastardized version of both would be in order: I think you should stretch the second one to about halfway the first one is stretched. The first one looks too sinister/skewered and the second looks too... artificial/robotic. Which could work, but if you want a truly omniscient feel go with a more natural shape: stretch the second circular one to about where half the stretch of the first is.
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Thank you very much for your help and I will see how it goes with that idea.
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So this is what I came up with. If this does not come out as expected in other people's opinions, then I will definitely go with the original eye design.
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I think that looks good personally... its the right mix.
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I agree with that assessment expect on one account. Do you think Yang would want to have a super realistic eye watching his people all the time? I mean it might creep out the very people they are supposed to watch. So he might construct something completely robotic that is slightly less than life like so that his people are not freaked out by them. Also, I always thought he would be interested in using a machine to spy on his people rather than human because they are not as fallible.
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I have finally reached a decision. I will go with the original eye and explain why I came to this conclusion. First, I always felt Yang's society was somewhat artificially created and maintained. This has for a long time always struck me as being better fit by having a more robotic/artifical feeling eye than one that you would find in a natural organism.
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Also, this case is closed for the moment. Now imagine some famous crime drama music playing in your head.
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"Murder, Murder, Alternate original seven faction mod" - A Quinn Martin Production.
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What do you think of the newly minted original keepers, archons, and morgan faction 1 files? I do believe that with the new polish we (as in the community as a whole) have created something that can be used as an alternative for the originals without having to worry about them looking inferior. I am still working on the labyrinth faction files but have completed all of the morgan files. I only have a few changes left for the archon and keeper faction files. After I finish these files, I will go on to spruce up the spartan and conclave logos. The last one I will do is the gaians because I have to completely redo them because they currently look terrible.
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This may be of interest - it's a proto-University faction I made for an as yet unreleased GotM. Feel free to make use of the bases, which are taken from pre-release SMAC art, as they are clearly an earlier version of Uni bases, very in keeping for what you're doing.
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I noticed earlier versions of the bases for every faction except the keepers and labyrinth. The bases are very nice and actually fit inside the perimeter defenses.
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It seems like you ought to use those, in keeping with the early version theme...
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Where can these 'early art' bases be found?
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Hs anyone made bases for the other factions? If so, would they be willing to share? On another note, I just finished re-making the 300x300 labyrinth logo. So here it is. Changes made include making the eye and border slightly larger so that it scales properly from the smaller logos.
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It seems like you ought to use those, in keeping with the early version theme...
I would love to use, however, I would only do it if there were early versions made for all of the factions since it would look odd with only one of them having it.
Where can these 'early art' bases be found?
The early base art can be seen in the Map Shots from the SMAC Art repository by Sisko under the Media section.
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See the link below and the Article I did on cutting out structures from screenshots to make bases...
Where can these 'early art' bases be found?
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2199.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2199.0)
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I am still hestiant about how to do the sizes that are not in the actual art. Also, what should I do about the missing keeper and labyrinth base art? I have said in the past that I am not to good at this.
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I am however willing to try it.
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So I was looking at the photographs and wondering why the photographs with a hive base and with a keeper base both looked like a gaian base and that is because they had not created any for them and so they defaulted to the gaian base set. This means someone would have to create a set of keeper and labyrinth bases to fit that style.
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I'd suggest taking the official bases and simplifying the designs a little by removing some details - that's essentially the difference with the final Uni bases, and ought to work well enough. This is nothing you can't manage.
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How is this?
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Size 2 Morgan base. Please tell me how I am doing. So far I think I have been doing fairly well.
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See the link below and the Article I did on cutting out structures from screenshots to make bases...
Where can these 'early art' bases be found?
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2199.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2199.0)
Ah, now I see. Completely overlooked them.
Size 2 Morgan base. Please tell me how I am doing. So far I think I have been doing fairly well.
Yeah, I think you're doing fairly well as well. ;)
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Agreed.
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Here is the believer land base size 2.
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2? That's really small for stage 2...
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Another picture of a size 2 believer base. I am thinking that I should just re-do the bases in there likeness by hand. What do you people think?
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I dunno. There's nothing wrong with that one except it looks flat, but that wouldn't be as hard to fix as drawing it from scratch would be.
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Actually, I think there are other problems as well. If you take a look at this image and you may see how poorly fitted they are to the original defenses.
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That's because you centered it around everything, not the building. Ignore the shadow when placing the fences.
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All of this base art is starting to make me feel uneasy :-\.
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Is this what you meant when you said to ignore the shadow when centering it?
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I fear my sense of panic may soon set in over how hard it is making bases from scratch. ;aaa Also, you were right about the difficulty.
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I hear that.
Is this what you meant when you said to ignore the shadow when centering it?
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=6934)
Yep. Looks a lot better.All of this base art is starting to make me feel uneasy :-\.
Base art isn't easy.
But it's worth doing right.
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It just bothers me for some reason that they are so small compared to the original art.
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Yeah, the one quoted in my last post is big enough for -maybe- stage one. I bet the screenie you're working with is reduced in size, and you're going to have to do some expanding and sharpening.
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Would this do better as a size one base? I will sharpen it if you think it is a better size.
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Yeah.
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I simply do not have the patience right now to do all of this base art and will get to them when I have the time.
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I do not know how to make that blurred yet still clear when viewed from a distance effect that they use on bases.
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I don't think I follow you, there.
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For example, when you view most bases in a high zoom, they appear to be a blur of pixels until you view it at a good distance, say a zoom of 100%.
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Filters>Enhance>Sharpen. That's how. Play around with the sharpen levels and see if that doesn't do the trick.
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What do you think of this as a very rough draft for the believer base?
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This draft is at least oriented correctly....
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What do you think of this as a very rough draft for the believer base?
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=6941)
Reduce the size of the back corner slightly and lower to put some perspective on it and you've got something there.
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This is the size 3 believer base.
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The original believer bases add an additional level to the front for each additional. So I think I now have a pretty good idea of how to make them. Now the hard part is making it look good.
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You can do it. Most of my art students are self-starters, and you more than most.
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How does this look as a size 1 believer base? I would obviously change the color and make it look more realistic. I figured I should start simply and add additional detail in larger sizes.
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Looks good, provided you fix up the colors - but remember perspective issues, and enlarge slightly front/left, ensmall slightly right/back.
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Other than color, how does it look? I added a spire so that it present in all versions of the base. each time it grows, I will an additional row of rooms on each of the spire.
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Add the spire to the shadow and watch out for the perspective issue, and I think you've got something.
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How does this look? It is a size 2 Believer base.
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;b;
Add the spire to the shadow and watch out for the perspective issue, and I think you've got something.
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Size four believer base. What do you people think? I am also hoping someone/people will try and guess what a size three base will look like. I already know.
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The shape is looking close to what the Believers have in their original diplomatic background... so I like it. My advice is to make it look more stone like and have the windows as colourful glass.
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So here are all four land bases for the believers. Please tell me what you think of them. Also, can you see any particular pattern in the stained glass that is very similiar to a symbol from Miriam's national background?
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Are the bases too small? ???
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Size four really ought to almost fill the box....
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Do you want me add some sections to it?
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I am not certain which is more painful for me, having to remove parts from my creation or having to make additional parts for it.
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I guess. 4 should be a lot bigger, and 3&2 scaled between that and stage 1...
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I'd suggest merely selecting said structure in a box, (adding a bit on to it helps too) and merely enlarging it. Then just fine tune the details from there.
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You mean like this. I am uncertain what other details I should add.
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Detail the shading of the structure more for one thing: Use different gradients of the colours there for that effect, play around with it.
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Churches run to very tall windows, not square ones...
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I will do the detail work later this week. For now, I am trying to figure out how to draw the morgan bases in a good manner. Here is a size one base I took from a screenshot of the pre-release game. I expect these bases to be harder to draw than the believer bases.
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It reminds me of a UFO or a mushroom cap. Both of those are objects that I have never really had to draw before.
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Does anyone have suggestions on how to make the morgan bases?
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You achieve metallic effects, as the dome seems to call for, by bringing the contrast way up and making the details sorta light blue.
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Thanks for the tip. Also, it is the Morgan Twin Towers! ;lol
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:)
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How is this for an outline of a morgan size 1 base. I plan to put in two short towers for a size 1 base and have them grow taller and larger as the base increases in size.
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That looks to be on the right track. If you're keeping the blue color scheme, you might consider, nonetheless, making the dome on stage four gold...
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Good Idea. Here is my twin tower size 1 base. I made sure it would fit inside the perimeter defense.
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They look pretty much forlorn within the defenses. ???
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Maybe full color will give it sufficient pop?
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Here is a pretty well colored version of them.
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Much better. The yellow band really makes it stand out.
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Here is a rough draft of the gaian size 1 base.
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Are you going to do EVERYTHING the hard way?
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Like I have said before, my style is very different from the one they used to create the bases originally and thus makes mine stand out as being different. So unless I can make everything similiar, then I must do it the hard way. That is one reason why I was hesitant to start this project. Also, I knew that I would not be satisfied unless I re-did them all.
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Okay.
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Here is the size two base. Do you think it is too big?
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Update. Question remains the same.
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No, seems to suit. For third tier, add a little addition in the front/structure, then make a larger facility next to it or enlarging the others...
Enlarging... that word doesn't look right at all... Enlargen look's better...
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Not too big, no.
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I have a single very important question that I would like a more or less concrete answer to from members of this community. I am wondering if anyone would actually use the changed original seven faction files in there games? I want to know this because if only one or two people even try it, then I might feel as though it is a waste of my time. I am hoping to get more than several people's opinion on this question.
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This touches on a disheartening thing; good work never gets the attention it deserves. You can't fixate too much on the amount of feedback you get, or it's all no good. I had a lot of trouble coming to grips with that when I was starting out; one of the best modders here is slowly letting it defeat him. Do the work because it's worth doing. Do it because you learn useful skills doing it - and make no mistake; you're learning very useful skills. Do it for the lurkers, to bait them here so they'll decide to sign up and entertain you with their posts and conversation. Do it as a favor to me. But we don't make any money, and the applause is never enough - you do it for other reasons.
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And I think that if there was an event surrounding this, maybe a challenge or something related, it'd spike interest and get people to try it. I for one am looking forward to all this custom work your doing. I will be honest and state it I probably won't use it as a permanent replacement for the originals, but I'd play a few games with these alternatives just for the experience and have fun with it.
This game is old with a very reserved fan base. If nothing else, what BUncle said: you are garnering experience and skill modifying games, creating graphics of which can be applied to fronts.
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Here is the size three morgan base. I am not certain if I should make it size 4 due to the size.
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Is it just me or does it look slightly squared on the front?
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It does.
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Does this fix the issue?
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Size two looks fine - size three, still too square. Try making a tall select a few pixels wide and from the bottom all the way into the unshadowed part of the dome>copy>move the select box downward a pixel>paste. See if that doesn't make it look rounder.
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Hmm. I tried it myself, and the problem's a little more complex - tough to get those windows to not look straight-line. I fiddled with a few pixels along the bottom and the yellow band, and I think this is better...
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Okay, I think this sorted it out.
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The gaian bases remind me of fingers or very large piles of human refuse.
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Here is a gaian size 1 base. What do you think?
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Here is a size 1 spartan base. What do you think of it?
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Does anyone have some ideas as to what I should do for the labyrinth bases. I need ideas because their diplomacy landscape is not exactly inspiring...
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Updated Spartan base size 1. Same question as above. How can I make the hive bases so they do not look like blue hornet nests yet still be underground?.
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University base size 1.
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Here is another version of the spartan size 1 base
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For the Labyrinth: Make them look like bunkers with antenna.
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That makes sense - built very flat, because Yang burrows, and the DL indicates there's not much to see at base sites.
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For the Labyrinth: Make them look like bunkers with antenna.
A refined version of the morgan size 1 base. Thank you JarlWolf and BUncle for the idea.
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Is this close to what you were thinking?
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Add a triangular slope to the bottom left end of it/exposed side, then were talking.
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A very shallow slope...
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Here is the revised version.
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So here are two revised versions of the labyrinth size 1 base and the morgan size 2 base. I was thinking that if the labyrinth base is underground, then it must have some air pump on the surface. Hence the small building. Although I could also just put a simple vent from the bunker to the surface but that feels less realistic.
Now time for a morgan joke :D.
Our luxury resorts simply provide views and comforts that can not be found anywhere else on planet at a very reasonable price. We did not want to out accessorize our competitiors, but our amenities are simply so good nobody has felt the need to out do us.
-- CEO Nwabudike Morgan,
Morgan Link 3D Live Interview
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Fixed a perspective problem with this morgan base.
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I am aware that I need to work on the perspective for these bases but I wanted to give you an idea of my basic design for the keeper bases. So please tell me what you think.
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Rounded...
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Here is a refined version of the keeper size 1 base. Thank you BUncle. I do not want to impose upon your time.
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Keeper base size 1.
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Size 1 Spartan Base. I think it looks pretty good except for the colors.
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Slight update and refinement to the spartan base. I am currently very happy with the size and perspective on this base.
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That's going to look funny in-game; the angle's too low. It needs to be from about 45 degrees high.
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Here is another version of it with a higher angle of perspective.
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The front of this base reminds me of a bad ghost decoration from halloween I saw outside a house one year :). Also, I removed the base for size 1 so that it matches the version from the pre-release photo. I am now working on size 2.
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Okay, cheat the highest corner down a hair to get a 3D perspective and you've got something.
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How does this look?
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What's the difference?
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The back of the building has more of a steep pyramid look.
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I made the top left corner of the structure slightly lower, made a very small base around the bottom, added a small building to the back side and put in the banner outline on the front.
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Spartan Base size #2. Yeah! I think so far it looks good.
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Startin' to look familiar. :D
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Keeper size 3 base.
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Keeper base size 2. What do you think of this particular base?
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I am definitely getting better at this if I may say so.
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You may.
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Here is a version of the labyrinth base. I decided to make the air vent flat and added the sensor array on top. Also, the interior has been split into different levels.
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Do you know how to work the lighting function under Filters?
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Do you know how to work the lighting function under Filters?
No, I do not. For your information, I have only been using GIMP since January and do not have any college or university education in graphic design. So I am still not exactly sure how to use everything in GIMP correctly.
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I'm not sure either.
I'm more than half self-taught. A little training in graphic design in high school, and that ended in 1983, so no computers. Look under Filters>Light and Shadow>Lighting Effects and do some experimenting. That's how I learned.
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What color is planet's soil usually?
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Updated version of the labyrinth base. Now includes a small building for an air pump, a heat outlet, and a long range sensor array.
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Planets soil is sort of a reddish brown it seems, not OVERLY red, but it has a sort of tinge to it.
It also has specks of green that vary in density depending on how moist the tiles are.
(monsoon and dunes being the exception.)
The one tile this game is missing is a icy tile: But then again, ice may not be able to form as well on Centauri as it does on Earth due to the multi solar system...
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Here is the size 1 and size 2 bases for the labyrinth. What do you think?
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Labyrinth base size 3. Please give any suggestions, ideas or comments you have on them.
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Nice, but needs more perspective.
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Nice, but needs more perspective.
Any ideas on how I could do this? I know that I need to add shadows to the bases.
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Basically, you compress the back-top half a little, maybe 10%. With taller structures, you may need to do that a tiny bit with the bottom front corner, too. -The bottom front never needs nearly as much because we're looking down from a high angle. That pretty Spartan base base on the last page could possibly benefit from a touch of that.
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=7162)
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Is this close to what you were thinking?
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Yeah; that's got it.
Remember that the bases are HUGE buildings viewed from a distance in the game - big distant things have more natural perspective than small close ones. It's an important visual cue the viewer may not notice, but it really matters.
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Plus, I suggest making the Labyrinth not have so many windows. If I may suggest an idea to go off of, slope the sides so it's a trapezoid.
Sort of like this:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070625191041/cnc/images/7/7f/Toxin_Bunker.jpg)
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Yeah; that's got it.
Remember that the bases are HUGE buildings viewed from a distance in the game - big distant things have more natural perspective than small close ones. It's an important visual cue the viewer may not notice, but it really matters.
Plus, I suggest making the Labyrinth not have so many windows. If I may suggest an idea to go off of, slope the sides so it's a trapezoid.
Sort of like this:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070625191041/cnc/images/7/7f/Toxin_Bunker.jpg)
First, now that I have done it correctly, I think I know how to do it to other bases. Second, those plates are not windows but are the exterior of the base underground. That is why I was asking what color the soil is.
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My slightly altered perspective labyrinth base size 2.
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What a relief. :relief: Now that I know how to do it, I feel as though I can make these bases properly.
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Plus, I suggest making the Labyrinth not have so many windows. If I may suggest an idea to go off of, slope the sides so it's a trapezoid.
Sort of like this:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070625191041/cnc/images/7/7f/Toxin_Bunker.jpg)
Note that you can tell instantly that the shot is of a model, not a large building viewed fro a distance. Perspective. -It matters.
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Yeah, but why I dragged this image out is for the sloped design on the sides is all.
The Labyrinth buildings would look more bunkerish, which is the intention, if they had that sloped design.
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Yeah, but why I dragged this image out is for the sloped design on the sides is all.
The Labyrinth buildings would look more bunkerish, which is the intention, if they had that sloped design.
Do you mean that you would want the underground section sloped or the buildings on the surface?
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Is it just me or do the earlier bases have a different perspective than the officially released ones?
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That may have been a late realization that needed fixing. The way the map's laid out calls for around 45 degrees.
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What do you think?
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I can't really tell what I'm looking at...
I see what you did because of the filename, though.
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Gaian base size 2. Added roots to indicate what they are.
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I always wondered about those 'trees' where Gaians attach their habitats to. Aren't they just rocky outcrops? At least in the enhanced diplomatic landscape in the .svg thread they look more like rock formations...
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If you look at the pre-release gaian bases, you will see that none of them have roots. This leads me to believe that they are not trees but rather some kind of solid organic matter or are as Geo said, rock outcrops. Maybe the gaians are hippies that like to set-up and attach little saucer shaped shelters to rocks. Hmmmm, it makes you wonder.
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Oh, I think they're definitely some sort of biostructures.
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Here is a refined version of the gaian base size 1.
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Final version of the gaian size 1 base. Also gaian size 1 base with perimeter defense.
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Refined version of the gaian bases size 2.
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Gaian base size 3. Almost there. I hope no one will shoot down my hopes by finding some major problem. So what do other users think?
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Does anyone have some ideas for what I should do as a special feature for the gaian bases?
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Here is the size four gaian base. I hope I have done the perspective correctly.
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Morgan size 1 base almost final version.
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Special feature? You mean like an antenna or something? In case of the Gaians I'd say a Centauri Preserve dome or that telepathic temple/tower structure seen in one of the secret project movies (Telepathic Matrix?).
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Yeah, but why I dragged this image out is for the sloped design on the sides is all.
The Labyrinth buildings would look more bunkerish, which is the intention, if they had that sloped design.
Do you mean that you would want the underground section sloped or the buildings on the surface?
The surface building primarily, you would want the building to be sloped on the surface so it's harder to assault/penetrate with weapons.
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The next time someone suggests that I do base art, please remind me how much works it takes to get it right. I am having a terrible time making morgan's bases :(.
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The next time someone suggests that I do base art, please remind me how much works it takes to get right. I am having a terrible time making morgan's bases :(.
Said while sporting Morgan's mug.
;lol
I think what Morgan's bases need is pillar supports on each corner perhaps... make them less of cylinders and have an easier time making them?
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Good idea Jarlwolf. Also, I hope that by staring by morgan's mug long enough, I might get some inspiration regarding his base art. I think it worked with Deidre. :)
The next time someone suggests that I do base art, please remind me how much works it takes to get right. I am having a terrible time making morgan's bases :(.
Said while sporting Morgan's mug.
;lol
I think what Morgan's bases need is pillar supports on each corner perhaps... make them less of cylinders and have an easier time making them?
;).
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What do you think of this? I believe it is my best work yet.
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Shiny! Nice, but probably too flat an angle.
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I do not know. I have compared the perspective to the original bases and they appear to be similiar. I am simply showing the base on a different scale.
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Looks like an awful low angle to me. Maybe playtesting will tell...
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Here are the rest of the bases for Morgan. :(
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Is this any better?
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I have increased the perspective on this piece. Is this closer to what you were thinking?
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Have made it even more dramatic.
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Here is a colored version of it.
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I think my work looks good now. :)
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Somewhat.
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Here is a preview image of it.
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I would add a bit of different shades of the blue on the top, make it look shaded/rounder.
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I would add a bit of different shades of the blue on the top, make it look shaded/rounder.
Do you think the perspective on it is okay? I can handle adding color.
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It looks okay on the map, so I'd say yes. Looking right in that context is the acid test.
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Mhm... Just work on the shading of the entire structure so it looks three dimensional.
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Now it is a simple matter of getting the colors right. My first ever properly perspectived piece of art! Yeah! ;excite;
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Newly colored version.
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Woah... I am not going to lie, that is a fantastic structure...
edit: The shading on this is superb... it really does look 3- dimensional...
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In general, you want to back off the color saturation - it's a mistake so common that movie CGI professionals still do it constantly - computer colors tend to be too vivid and bright, and that doesn't look real.
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In general, you want to back off the color saturation - it's a mistake so common that movie CGI professionals still do it constantly - computer colors tend to be too vivid and bright, and that doesn't look real.
I am assuming you mean the gold top correct? Then let me turn down the saturation and get back to you.
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Does this look more realistic?
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In general, you want to back off the color saturation - it's a mistake so common that movie CGI professionals still do it constantly - computer colors tend to be too vivid and bright, and that doesn't look real.
I am assuming you mean the gold top correct? Then let me turn down the saturation and get back to you.
Everything - you don't want it lower on just the part that's SUPPOSED to be shiny...
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;woohoo ;woohoo :D I have finished my first land base set finished!!
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:danc:
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Do you know how to make the water bases with a platform? I imagine that it would go water first, then platform then the base. Is this layering in the correct order?
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I do platform first actually, then form the water around the platform, then place the rest of the building on the platform. But its really up to experimentation on that one.
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Demo version of the labyrinth base. What do you think?
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I think you're onto something...
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Do you like this version better or worse then the other one?
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The only difference I see is the shading.
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The only difference I see is the shading.
Other differences include the removal of a portion of the ring around the dome, and making the dome taller.
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Another example.
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(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=7292)
I think I like this one best, so far.
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I will get working on them as soon as I can. I have to take a trip this weekend. So I will be unavailable from Saturday until Monday morning.
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I am having difficulty getting the right perspective for the dome inside the ring. Does anyone have some suggestions on how to fix this?
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How does this look? I needed to resize the dome so that it was a better fit for a size 1 base.
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A slighlty altered version with an added tube.
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Ah, with a black background I see the tube.
Second one is better. ;b;
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I just realized there is some kind of strange machine in front of the sensor array on the hive diplomacy landscape ???.
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Part of the sensor array, no doubt. Or the air conditioning. Or one of a million other things a buried city might need poking out ont the surface.
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Actually, I have ruled out the sensor array because their shadows are seperate from one another.
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Here is my most recent verison of the base.
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Snazzy.
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Here is a image of it on the world map. Do you like it, think it needs improvement, or is it horrible and should be completely re-done?
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I think it's too bright. Turn down the bright level 10-20%. Possibly the color saturation.
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Since starting this, I can now appreciate how difficult it must have been for the artists to create diplomacy landscapes that look good using such a limited palette of colors :).
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Yeah; that palette can really be a girldog.
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How is this? I have shaded them using colors that available in the pallete and so it will not look as good as just using colors in GIMP. Also, I think I toned it down as you suggested.
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That should be better. Does it stick out less on the map?
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Let me look and I will post a screen image.
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Here is the screen image. They do not appear as bright.
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Still too bright, though. They're supposed to be stealthy, so bright is all wrong.
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I also think it's got TOO much of a blueish tinge to it, doesn't look right and it contrasts too much with the ground.
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Maybe the game is trying to tell me something since everytime I put the base into the file it turns the blues into a darkish gray ::).
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Perhaps I should color it similiar to planet's soil with a grayish tinge?
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maybe just darken enough that the whites turn unmistakably gray...
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Take three.
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Take four. What do you think?
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:announce:: :help:
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At the very least the base of the structures should be much closer to the ground color ingame.
I have to echo the others: too bright.
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Could all of my art
critics critiquers assemble a list of colors and their numbers from the palette.pcx file that you think might fit this base? Especially since I seem to be unable to find the correct shades for this base.
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Could we have a screenshot with 'take 4' attempt ingame?
I only looked at those, and I just saw this take seems alot darker then the others (though my 'dirt' remark remains).
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Could some of the art critiquers assemble a list of colors and their numbers from the palette.pcx file that you think might fit this base? Especially since I seem to be unable to find the correct shades for this base.
Could we have a screenshot with 'take 4' attempt ingame?
I only looked at those, and I just saw this take seems alot darker then the others (though my 'dirt' remark remains).
Here is a screenshot with my take four. Please help.
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Would anyone help me by at least providing some suggestions for colors?
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You're doing fine already.
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Looking good so far... I can't quite put it/see exactly but the central structure of the Labyrinth base is somehow miscoloured.... other then that things are looking solid. I'll have to look at it in greater detail to tell you.
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Maybe put a little blue back into the dome?
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How is this? Also base size 2.
Edit: Put it on a black blackground.
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What do you think I should do as the size four special feature for the Hive bases?
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I'm almost tempted is to suggest that size 2 should increase in size a tad, be your size 4, and then slowly remove structures until you just get to the hatch. Up to you though, I just think it'd be too cluttered it there was more.
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I'm almost tempted is to suggest that size 2 should increase in size a tad, be your size 4, and then slowly remove structures until you just get to the hatch. Up to you though, I just think it'd be too cluttered it there was more.
I will take it into consideration but I would like you to first take a look at the size 3 base.
Edit: Shaded the structure on the far right.
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I still need some ideas for a special feature of the size 4 hive bases.
Examples of a special feature from the SMAC bases include: the peacekeeping logo on the front of there base, the inclusion of lights on the spartan bases, etc.
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Examples of a special feature from the SMAC bases include: the peacekeeping logo on the front of there base, the inclusion of lights on the spartan bases, etc.
Satellite dish with a (dark) cable running from the stand/pylon into one of those 'pits'.
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Examples of a special feature from the SMAC bases include: the peacekeeping logo on the front of there base, the inclusion of lights on the spartan bases, etc.
Satellite dish with a (dark) cable running from the stand/pylon into one of those 'pits'.
Good idea Geo ;). Also, if you want to get a better view of what they are, go take a look at the hive diplomacy landscape. As a matter of fact, do that for any of these bases and you will get a better view of them. :D They are my sources of inspiration since I know they were created before the officially released faction bases that Firaxis created.
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Here is the new size 1 hive base. I plan to have the holes be enlarged with each additional base size and to add one sensor array and associated structure per base level past 1. At size three I will also add the second structure for the holes with associated tubes.
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What do you think so far? Base sizes 1 and 2.
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Nice.
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Refined versions of Hive bases sizes 1, 2, and 3. Do you like them?
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Added shadowing to the size 3 hive base!
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Slightly improved size three. Also finished adding shadows to it. I hope these bases have a low enought profile to satisfy JarlWolf :).
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Hive base size 4!!!! :danc: ;excite; :danc:
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Screenshot! :1st:
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What do you people think?
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;b;
-
Another screenshot.
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A little late to the party on these; those are real impressive for your first try! Did you draw them yourselves?
My only comment is that they don't really speak to me as the property of a nihilistic despot. The Hive was perfect for that-- their bases were hunched and austere and felt oppressive to look at. These ones are lacking that characterization.
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A little late to the party on these; those are real impressive for your first try! Did you draw them yourselves?
My only comment is that they don't really speak to me as the property of a nihilistic despot. The Hive was perfect for that-- their bases were hunched and austere and felt oppressive to look at. These ones are lacking that characterization.
Yes I did draw them from start to finish. I drew from a combination of the pre-release screen shots for SMAC or from the faction's diplomacy landscape. However, the hive and the peacekeepers are the two factions that do not have non-generic (read gaian) bases in the pre-release screenshots.
In addition, you are not too late for this party. I still have another 5 sets of bases that I need to make or are going to finish creating/improve in quality.
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What do you think is the white structure in the background towards the bottom left of the believer's diplomacy landscape?
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I'd have to see the diplomacy landscape again, all I remember is a big churchlike structure.
Post the picture and perhaps we'll be able to tell.
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Here is a png of it. In addition to the white structure, do you think the structures other than the main church are seperate from one another?
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The white structure is a roof catching the sunlight.
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The structures to the left are connected. I'd even daresay all the structures in the picture look like a giant, connected gothic church.
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The white structure is a roof catching the sunlight.
The structures to the left are connected. I'd even daresay all the structures in the picture look like a giant, connected gothic church.
Thank you BUncle and Jarlwolf, I have found your comments to be very helpful towards my planning out their base.
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The structures to the left are connected. I'd even daresay all the structures in the picture look like a giant, connected gothic church.
Logic dictates there's a mirror structure to the other side of the central 'ship' then.
At least, in old Europe almost all gothic cathedrals have such a 'balanced' layout.
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Good point.
Yeah, way too much classical Greek influence on medieval architecture to go asymmetrical on God's house.
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On the Hive bases, does my tablet play tricks with me, or are the shadows of the structures a kinf of bright yellow?
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Your tablet be playing tricks on you.
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No, actually I see it too.
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I am back from my short vacation to outer space, plus a sunburn. :)
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I am back from my short vacation to outer space, plus a sunburn. :)
Did you like the cosmic rays, Voyager? :)
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I am back from my short vacation to outer space, plus a sunburn. :)
Did you like the cosmic rays, Voyager? :)
Those cosmic rays made me feel kind of like a burnt piece of toast.
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On the Hive bases, does my tablet play tricks with me, or are the shadows of the structures a kinf of bright yellow?
No, actually I see it too.
If you look at the original base shadows, you will also see that they are yellow.
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For some reason, my vacation was not very relaxing and I am currently feeling run-down and tired :( :(.
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Relax with us, buddy; we think you're da bomb. ;b;
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Relax with us, buddy; we think you're da bomb. ;b;
Thank you :).
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Hey - thank you for being you. I ain't blowing smoke; you make this forum a better place, and your contributions are appreciated.
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With great excitement, once I have finished the graphics (including logo re-makes) for the original seven factions, I plan to do an AAR with them. ;)
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:danc:
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How would the white structure in the believers landscape be connected to the other structures when it appears to be running parallel to them? A explaination of how this could work would be greatly appreciated.
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Look at the red underline and think three dimensionally.
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Look at the red underline and think three dimensionally.
I have done some research on this and have learned that since after the legalization of Christanity in the Roman empire, most of the large christian churches and cathedrals were built in the shape of a cross. What I can not figure is how to combine the obvious christian influences and background of the faction into there bases while still basing it off the diplomacy landscape.
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Sometimes they did that, not always.
Attached is a very simplified overhead view of what I think we're looking at in the DL, with the black indicating POV. There may be a lot more to the structure out of sight, for all I know.
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I do believe I have figured it out. I think that it is showing a monastery complex with the main building you are facing being the church and the white structure and buildings around it being seperate from yet surrounding the church. So in essence, you are looking at one end of the church lengthwise and seeing the surrounding building that run parallel to it.
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Okay, I give up; they're clearly connected/ the same building, but I don't care.
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Okay, I give up; they're clearly connected/ the same building, but I don't care.
I don't think they're necessarily connected...
But what is this white structure you keep talking about, Dio? I see white clouds in which a spire towers, probably the main tower at the center of the 'cathedral'.
(http://www.ikonet.com/fr/ledictionnairevisuel/images/qc/cathedrale-gothique-15430.jpg)
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Okay, I give up; they're clearly connected/ the same building, but I don't care.
I don't think they're necessarily connected...
But what is this white structure you keep talking about, Dio? I see white clouds in which a spire towers, probably the main tower at the center of the 'cathedral'.
(http://www.ikonet.com/fr/ledictionnairevisuel/images/qc/cathedrale-gothique-15430.jpg)
It is the structure circled in white
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Can we at least agree on the fact that the original believer bases are a poor reflection of what is shown in their diplomacy landscape?
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Okay, I give up; they're clearly connected/ the same building, but I don't care.
BUncle, since your writing seems to indictate you are frustrated, I would recommend stepping back from this project for a while. You do not need to be actively involved because Iam not going to stop or quit until this project gets finished. I realize that this project is not going to happen in a short amount of time but I will make sure that it gets done well and in a reasonable amount of time. So in short, while this will take time and you should expect some delays, you can be guaranteed that I will not quit or stop simply because I hit some hurdles along the way.
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Can we at least agree on the fact that the original believer bases are a poor reflection of what is shown in their diplomacy landscape?
Absolutely. I've never quite seen the reasoning behind the base design - I mean, yes, it's supposed to be some sort of weird space cathedral, but the church influence is poorly expressed.
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How is this for a rough design of a size 1 conclave base?
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Hey, now that's an idea! LOVE IT!
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It is the structure circled in white
Just the roof.
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A refined version of it. What do you think?
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Cathedrals were rumoured to take a while to finish. How about the tower only partly done, or with a workers grid ln the top part for the size 1 bases?
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Cathedrals were rumoured to take a while to finish. How about the tower only partly done, or with a workers grid ln the top part for the size 1 bases?
How is this?
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Not bad. I'd suggest adding a few black vertical lines on the top part of the half-finished tower, as to represent the skeleton of the upper part of the tower.
And I think, with your first attempt (full cathedral) and an extra side structure you already have your second-size base. :)
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Rough size 2 conclave base. I will definitely add the skeleton to the tower. What do you think?
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Just my thoughts, but I'd start using big side structures only at the third stage.
Can you make the roofs look more like tilted rooftops instead of a flat slab?
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Here is an updated version of the size 2 base. I do not currently know how to make a pointed roof :(.
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Diagnol line with the pixels, and shading it/colouring it a darker colour/shade of colour to indicate 3 dimension or a sloped surface.
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Diagnol line with the pixels, and shading it/colouring it a darker colour/shade of colour to indicate 3 dimension or a sloped surface.
I do not like making pointy objects in such a perspective....
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Rough size three conclave base. Almost there to size 4! ;excite;. I think these bases really do inspire a feeling of awe. Does anyone have suggestions or comments on it?
P.S.: I realize that the side building has a flat roof and I will make it pointed in a upcoming revision. I simply wanted to get this version out.
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It's... passable...
Nah, just kiddin'. Looks great, and will even be better with the adjusted roof. ;)
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Updated conclave bases sizes 1-3. I am currently working on size 4! :danc: What do you some people other than *Geo think? I just would a wider sample of opinions.
*No offense intended to Geo and I would like to thank him for his feed back so far and hopefully in the near future.
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I think it shows promise -that stage three is gettin' to be stylin'- be careful to not end with the same colors as the Moran bases, though.
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Size four without attached side structure, so far what do you think?
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Revised version of size 1 base conclave base. Do you like it more or less than the previous version?
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More.
Size four without attached side structure, so far what do you think?
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=7744)
Nice. You're definitely going in a good direction.
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Conclave base preview! Yeah! So far so good. Everything fits inside the tachyon field for each level barely :relief:.
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If most people like the bases, then tomorrow I will get on coloring and shading them properly. After that, I plan to add base defenses and then put in the water versions.
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I think the perspective's working the basic design is good, so choose good colors and light it carefully, and you've got something. Drawing bases from scratch is a huge pain, and I've only done it a few times, but it is more rewarding to your creative ego.
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I think the perspective's working the basic design is good, so choose good colors and light it carefully, and you've got something. Drawing bases from scratch is a huge pain, and I've only done it a few times, but it is more rewarding to your creative ego.
Drawing them by hand is definitely not the easiest thing to do and I would definitely choose to get the bases from another source. However, in this case there are a very limited range of resources that bases could be taken from.
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I think the perspective's working the basic design is good, so choose good colors and light it carefully, and you've got something. Drawing bases from scratch is a huge pain, and I've only done it a few times, but it is more rewarding to your creative ego.
Drawing them by hand is definitely not the easiest thing to do and I would definitely choose to get the bases from another source. However, in this case there are a very limited range of resources that bases could be taken from.
You just need to know where to look, certain games and other things you wouldn't even think about are great sources to rip graphics from. Of course, this process you have is as what BUncle said: It's more rewarding to make it from scratch.
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Does anyone know some good colors for stone that are in the palette file? The colors that I have tried are either to earthy (have too much brown) or are too metallic.
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I know there's enough tones of gray. Maybe put the colorful bits in the windows to suggest stained glass.
You just need to know where to look, certain games and other things you wouldn't even think about are great sources to rip graphics from. Of course, this process you have is as what BUncle said: It's more rewarding to make it from scratch.
It really is; whether the considerable extra trouble you go to is justified is up to you.
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So note to self and others, stay away from darker grays unless you want a metallic look. If you want a lighter stonish look go with a color like this!
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Go darker and less blue. You should only get the metallic look when contrast is high - like if you left the white-ish lines white. I'm guessing they should be nearly black against a medium gray base color.
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I just discovered that three of the colors in the palette pcx file are identical. You can see it by looking at the color values for numbers 236, 237, and 238. That means we could add two new colors to rhe game without losing any functionality!!!!
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Go darker and less blue. You should only get the metallic look when contrast is high - like if you left the white-ish lines white. I'm guessing they should be nearly black against a medium gray base color.
Do you mean on the roof? I had not touched that yet...
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Keeper size 1 base. What do you guys think?
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If most people like the bases, then tomorrow I will get on coloring and shading them properly.
conclave bases looks great, as you say must be colored (to be more dark) and shaded PROPERLY (i'm sure you're able to do it)
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I can't really tell what I'm looking at...
I see what you did because of the filename, though.
:)
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Keeper size 1 base. What do you guys think?
nice, i think correct level of colours contrast
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New and improved keeper base size 1. I have so far gotten making trapezoids down to a fine art.
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Do you think this base should be sized as 2 or 3? I designed it as a size 2 base and am wondering if it would fit better as a size three base? Also, here is a modified size 1 base. :help: because I am ;excite; to continue.
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I think your bases still trend too small. Size one ought to be at least 3/4 the size of a scout, y'know?
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Does that mean you think I should re-do them :(.
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Dunno. Too small is too small, and where your stage four is already big enough that the shields have trouble fitting around, that's a problem with stage two and three, too. Where there's room for a bigger stage four, you only need to make one more base...
Part of your problem is that your bases tend to be wider than tall...
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One thing I am trying to avoid is having the base parts spill outside the base defenses.
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That's why the designers at Firaxis tended to go tall single structure...
(Be sure you caught my edit on the last.)
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Is it such a bad thing to do something differently? That is why I am doing this mod. For example, if you look at, say the prerealease gaian bases, you will notice that they all of the main structures in the final version are already present. That is why my bases tend to be wider than taller is because I want to include most of the major structures from a diplomacy landscape without it spilling outside the defenses. This spilling effect happened on every single officially released faction base from Firaxis and it never made sense to me why they would design them that way.
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In addition, in my more recent works I have been doing my best to try and fill out most of the space within the base defense perimeters.
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Oh, I get what you're doing and why - I'm just discussing the good and bad of the design decisions you're making. Realism tells us that buildings are rarely taller than they are wide, a few centers of big cities aside, but that realism is somewhat problematic for making giant arcologies work in AC. They really ought to tend MUCH wider, but the space available in the .pcx makes that impossible.
It's possible that your tiny stage ones are for the best, in the end...
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Oh, I get what you're doing and why - I'm just discussing the good and bad of the design decisions you're making. Realism tells us that buildings are rarely taller than they are wide, a few centers of big cities aside, but that realism is somewhat problematic for making giant arcologies work in AC. They really ought to tend MUCH wider, but the space available in the .pcx makes that impossible.
It's possible that your tiny stage ones are for the best, in the end...
How is this for the right size?
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Way too big for stage one. :P
Will the shields fit around that?
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Yes they would, if someone (*cough BUncle cough*) had made the generic human shields the right dimensions for each base size per the original bases. I will make the needed adjustments.
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Hey - NO REFUNDS. Pay me for my work if you're going to both use it and carp. :P
There's no way to make a one size fits all shield set, and the originals are not all the same size and shape.
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Oh really ::)? How is this for a size four base?
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Hmm interesting, in the officially released gaian bases they only have threetree structure things while in there diplomacy landscape and pre release bases clearly show four structures. Good thing I plan on re-doing it...
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Oh really ::)? How is this for a size four base?
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=7756)
As a size four base, it's terrible unless it's an invisible base.
As shields for a size four, that depends on the size and shape of the base, doesn't it? :D
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I'm with the philosophy that shields, not only being a pain in the arse to work with, are also unrealistic: Having a wall emplacement like that around a settlement, (and while walls are helpful: but only to a point) is impractical except for keeping out the weakest of foes/mindworms, especially energy based ones. It would cost loads of power and with that same amount of power you could operate a hyper advanced turret system/automatic defence system, which would be far superior, and helpful in the case of an attack. Especially if an opponent is attacking from multiple fronts: Land, sea or air.
Walls and fortifications mind, while I am not saying do not have their uses, throughout history and even in the modern era, and the future, they will always be nice strong focal points and holds on an area. And I can tell you from experience even the simplest of fortified positions can hold off many opponents, provided you can lock it down and secure it all. But the way they are depicted on settlements is not practical, it looks like a perimeter Jurassic park fence and such an expensive endeavour on such an extended front is hardly efficient or manageable to defend.
Edit: Also, under that line of thinking, I abandoned the worry of "spilling out of my fence area" and it's allowed me in my custom factions to be more liberal with the bases, and I think it turned out for the better on that account. This is your project and your free to do as you will, but I think if you want to make it truly "alternative" maybe make a new, better set of walls or use a better set of defences. Instead of painstakingly trying to fit YOUR structures to another design that's limiting you.
Edit 2: And on a side note, even if people don't permanently switch over or use your alternatives (I'm definitely trying them out mind,) if there is a custom wall set that's more flexible/better then some of the existing ones custom faction modders like myself will eternally praise you on that.
Edit 3: And on the account of personal experience, I can tell you gun emplacements with layers of cover is far superior over a simple wall. Walls can be bypassed, blown through, knocked down. If you have multiple sources of cover, and multiple emplacements of weaponry or sources of weapons you can muster, you can hold off an advancing enemy. I've been in cases where me and my fellows had been driven back and nearly cornered, but because we had strong points of control within the area we managed to cut and mow down our attackers, and I am here today due to those tactics.
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Base shields size 4 and 3.
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Those are the same size but different angles - you need to stay pretty close to the angle of the squares on the map, or it will mess up the perspective and look wrong.
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Edit: Also, under that line of thinking, I abandoned the worry of "spilling out of my fence area" and it's allowed me in my custom factions to be more liberal with the bases, and I think it turned out for the better on that account. This is your project and your free to do as you will, but I think if you want to make it truly "alternative" maybe make a new, better set of walls or use a better set of defences. Instead of painstakingly trying to fit YOUR structures to another design that's limiting you.
considering the appearance of your bases Dio, too different than firaxis graphics, jarl suggest seems very suitable.
however if you want to still insist to use classic fileds, open a firaxis pcx, take size of the bases at the different stages, resize your base as size detected, and then, put the fields, resizing them to be able to stay around the base. then you can broke it in 2 part, one back, on which you put the base, and one in front, which cover the base inserted. look firaxis pcx for better understanding of the dimensions and distances between the elements.
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Perhaps I should, for example, make a square solid wall for around the believer bases?
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I am not exactly sure what to do about the tachyon fields. Do you perhaps want me to layer it on top of the custom perimeter defenses?
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Also, in regards to bases spilling out past there defenses I think is very unrealistic because that section of the base is then undefended and could be used as an access point to the rest of it without having to go through the defenses.
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Perhaps I should, for example, make a square solid wall for around the believer bases?
could be cool, be careful to do it thin enough to not be too flashy, i'd made them thinner of the trunks used for clasical defences perimetre.
I am not exactly sure what to do about the tachyon fields. Do you perhaps want me to layer it on top of the custom perimeter defenses?
if you use this idea of perimetre you can simply change the colour of the square solid wall, or make it a bit more high, but always change color to get more visible the difference
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How about something like this? Barring the bright red of course.
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For the labyrinth perimeter defense, I was thinking of doing a line of interconnected bunkers with low profiles around the bases. For the gaians, I was thinking of a wall made out of vegetation like vines, trees, etc. For the University, I thinking like a smooth, modern looking wall that is semi transparent. For the morgans, I was thinking of a wall that has domes on top of it that are shiny. For the spartans, I would probably do a simple wall that reflects there militaristic background. The keepers might have a wall with small towers on it. So what do you think of my ideas so far?
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Update. What do you people think?
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I think I will do a close fitting tachyon field for all bases. My reason for this is because of the blurb for the tachyon field:
The klaxon began to wail, but we felt the reassuring tingle of
the Tachyon Field crackling to life around us, encasing the
entire base in its impenetrable glow.
^
^ -- Spartan Kel,
^ "The Fall of Sparta"
en·case
/enˈkās/
verb
gerund or present participle: encasing
1. enclose or cover in a case or close-fitting surround.
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I've done shields before in the form of just bluing and then golding the bases... It always comes back to whether you have an in-story justification for different tech, or just don't care that it doesn't match the originals...
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I've done shields before in the form of just bluing and then golding the bases... It always comes back to whether you have an in-story justification for different tech, or just don't care that it doesn't match the originals...
I do not know. I know why they had a standard perimeter defense for each faction. It is because they had a limited amount of time to make them. However, I figure that they, like on earth, will make walls that tend to match there society's culture to some degree. However, tachyon fields being a sci-fi creation at the moment are more difficult to define.
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New and semi-improved version. What do you think?
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New and semi-improved version. What do you think?
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=7762)
That works.
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Here is the final version I think of the conclave base. All detail work except shading and coloring has been done.
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I think you've got something. I like the grove cross design you worked into the roof.
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Do you think I should make the base not as tall? Say reduce the final height from 30 to 24 pixels?
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Naw - the height is good.
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Size 1 without details.
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Size 2 without details.
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Here is the final version I think of the conclave base. All detail work except shading and coloring has been done.
i'd say that is a great result. i'm curious to see it colored.
for lower base size (1-2 stages) i'd reduce the heights of the walls of the defence perimeters.
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Here is the size four colored and shaded :D.
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;rockon
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Not bad at all.
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Base preview!? So what do you think? I might do a few tweaks but if most people like them then I will do the perimeter defenses, tachyon fields and aquatic versions of the bases.
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I'd say that's ready to go.
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Here is the size four colored and shaded :D.
really cool but in game appears a bit light. maybe palette convert the vibrant colors that we see out of the game in lighter shades. you should play a bit with the contrast to see them in the game more darkened, more strong colour.
(Dio ma sei italiano??)
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How about this color? I have been busy with other work that needed to get done, so progress has been slow.
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Mind putting the other picture of the former base version alongside it so we can compare?
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Mind putting the other picture of the former base version alongside it so we can compare?
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(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=7801)
I think I like this one better.
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first is more elaborated, let's see in the game how look ... maybe roof will appairs too light
as perimeter, maybe you can paint just a simple low line around the base profile, you can do-intend as a sort of sistem of bunkers - trencees
and tachiony change the colour of that line from black of simple perimetre to red colour
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:tada: My (hopefully) final uncolored version of the labyrinth bases plus a perimeter defense!
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At the time of this post, everybody else has vanished with nary a trace....
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What do you people think of the perimeter defense?
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I think the angle is a bit too steep to look like it's laying flat on the map, and it'd be tough to fit around some bases. Here, it looks okay. Good, actually.
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I think the angle is a bit too steep to look like it's laying flat on the map, and it'd be tough to fit around some bases. Here, it looks okay. Good, actually.
Okay, I will see what I can do about that angle. On another note, I did a slight redesign on those "Holes" which now actually look like they have a siding around them. What do you think of it?
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Not sure I understand.
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Here are some examples that are not covered by a wall.
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Also, if you are interested, here some ideas I came up for perimeter defenses. My favorite has to be the wall in the lower right corner. I call it the wall with razor wire and might put it around the spartan bases.
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Hrm. My advice for that is make sure the barb wire has variations of grey to make it all spiky like, and maybe make the wall itself steep: taller.
Edit: and maybe more sloped, like a redoubt or the castles at Krak de Chevalier.
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What do you think of this rough outline for the University bases. Each dome corresponds to a base size between 1-4. In specific, do you think the perspective on them is good?
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It might be a bit flat, but it's hard to tell without more detail.
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Quick spray on job to add some depth. I hope this helps.
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Probably a little too edge-on, but it's hard to get that just right with the curve of small circles.
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Probably a little too edge-on, but it's hard to get that just right with the curve of small circles.
Do you mean the domes are too symmetrical :o ??? ?!?!?!?!?
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No.
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Does anyone know how to make curved cylinders on a 2-d surface? Is that even possible without visual trickery?
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I am leaning towards it being visual trickery.
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It is possible to do a dome, you just got to shade it right, if you need help creating it let me know. In the current moment I will be completely honest and admit I am recovering from a bit of a hangover so teaching/explaining it is out of the question (for now), but I can see if I can help you.
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How does this look so far?
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Shift the central line a little to the right, and for the top portion of the line, straighten it out. The hook bit. It's only about 5-6 pixels it seems, but if you do that you should get the angle right.
The most important thing on how to make domes is primarily shading to make it appear to have circumfrence. Domes are just half spheres, is a good way to think of them, so if you can shade a sphere, you can make a dome. Just shade a sphere, and then cut the bottom off of it with a C shaped slice or so, or basically a ) but have it on it's side, like this --- as opposed to I
I
I
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How does this look so far?
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Update.
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;b; it seems cool
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If you thought the previous version was cool, what about this?
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more cool.
domes are well done reflection of light.
remember in game you've 256 colours and i've seen certain shades of color change grouped into a unique color, and the shades of grey can tend to become too light.
for what i saw, your work is singular with a own graphic concept. i'm curious to see in game how looks (i know you're working on it)
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After numerous tries, I have decided to put off the coloring until the very last step in my base creation process. Also, it is a lot harder than it looks to get the colors right...
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What do you people think of this version? I increased the height of each dome. Are they to tall now?
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The domes might be. I like the detail of the towers you've added up the sides, but don't forget to add individual shading to them, to give a sense of depth.
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Is the perspective fairly even for each of the domes?
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Fairly - it's hard to tell.
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In any case, I added some satellite dishes and have begun working on those small structures attached to the back (front?) of the the observatory things.
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Added some windows to the small structure and blue lines on the largest structure in preparation to add their faction logo to the side :).
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What do you think?
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Update again. Same question as previous post.
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For some reason, this base reminds me of something from Zakharov's potrait...
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I think you're onto something.
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So I have added pretty much every major detail for the bases from the landscape illustration. Do you people like it, dislike it, or are indifferent? Do you have any suggestions on how I could improve it?
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The side towers need individual shading. The dish on top doesn't look like anything. Fix those, and you've got something, once you color it differently than the others you've made.
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Here is the university size 1 base. Do you like it?
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That's a base, all right.
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After numerous tries, I have decided to put off the coloring until the very last step in my base creation process. Also, it is a lot harder than it looks to get the colors right...
i know, i think you working in the right way
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the blue lines on the largest structure seem a sort of shield around the structure. if you cut them on the main walls you've more space for logo, over create an effect of separation between the pylon and the wall.
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I have a question that I would like several people's opinion on because I am working on a rough outline for the Spartan base. My question is, do you think that the raised pathways (the circled structures) go to another structure identical to it, or to something else? I am debating whether or not I would need to make two structures that are identical for the base set. Your opinions are greatly appreciated and will probably sway me towards one artistic direction or another.
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Those could be flying buttresses...
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Those could be flying buttresses...
I would like to agree that they are flying buttresses but that does not make sense considering the fact that they have doors leading onto them from the main building.
Edit: I think BUncle is right in that they are some kind of buttress but where do they go and why are there doors leading out onto them?
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Maybe they aren't so much doors, but maybe some sort of gate for aircraft and such to land in.
It could also be an elevated pasageway to furthered redoubts/fortresses: they probably wouldn't be identical or as big as the main one, but maybe exterior towers.
Or, the original idea of them being flying buttresses with loading bays.
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Well, flying buttresses ought to slope down, so the notion that they're some sort of bridge seems more likely - but you could treat them as buttresses in your design...
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Size 1 Spartan Base. Do you like it? Do you have any recommendations or suggestions on how I could improve it?
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Just the usual stuff - watch the perspective.
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So far how does this look?
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I like the bits you've added.
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Here are the spartan bases size 1-4.
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Do other people think I should make the keepers bases taller? I am uncertain if they are to wide and not tall enough compared to the buildings in the diplomacy landscape :-\.
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I should go taller on sizes 2-4. Size 1 pretty much nails it IMO.
And since you added parts going nowhere to the Spartan bases, why not maglev lines going nowhere on the Peacekeeper bases? ;cute
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parts going nowhere to the Spartan bases
they're shuttles airport bridges
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they're shuttles airport bridges
;lol ;b;
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I should go taller on sizes 2-4. Size 1 pretty much nails it IMO.
And since you added parts going nowhere to the Spartan bases, why not maglev lines going nowhere on the Peacekeeper bases? ;cute
I will get to adding them.
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So far, do you like this size four base?
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Everything's going to depend on the coloring - the design's okay.
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Everything's going to depend on the coloring - the design's okay.
Based on this perspective, do you think I should add a outcrop thing to the right side of each structure?
Edit: Please disregard this post. I just tested my idea and it looks horrible.
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Final version of the keeper bases barring any minor detail changes. Do you people like the design?
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University size 1 base. Please post any comments or suggestions you may have for it.
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Revised size one and the new size two university base.
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In Xanadu Did Kublai Khan A stately pleasure dome decree Where Alph the sacred river ran Through caverns measureless to man Down to a sunless sea.
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For your viewing pleasure (or displeasure), I have made new, and I think more interesting, models for the university bases. Other members of the forum please, tell me any thoughts, ideas or suggestions you have for them.
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I have made my first ever water base! ;excite;
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Stilts - I like it.
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Stilts - I like it.
Those were not stilts but rather pipes...
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University screen shot. Do the other artists on this board like the layout and design of the bases with exception to a few minor details and the colors?
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i prefer firsts land bases of universitary fac. you can use the follow model as you do for water bases which looks great. about last picture you posted it seems base size 3 is lot out of his square.
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i prefer firsts land bases of universitary fac. you can use the follow model as you do for water bases which looks great. about last picture you posted it seems base size 3 is lot out of his square.
I think he is saying that he liked the first layout I did for the land university bases and should use the second L layout for their water bases? Is this correct?
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Is this correct?
Looks like it.
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How about I use a hybrid version of the two layouts. I think that should help relieve that spillover effect while still keeping the generally linear and straight layout of the bases? What do you think of this idea?
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It's your spiel of course, but the base layout is too linear IMHO.
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It's your spiel of course, but the base layout is too linear IMHO.
Okay, I get it. However, I hope everyone realizes that there will be some amount of some spill over into adjacent tiles from any larger base. Also, I think tha since tiles adjacent to water have less land on them, it causes most bases to appear as if they are partially in the ocean.
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Well, it's a problem when said overlap causes an entire structure on the end to hang out over the bay, and some of that's attributable to the asymmetrical layout making it much more noticable...
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Do you like this version better?
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YESSSSSS!!!! :D ;woohoo :unworthy: :clap:
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Yeah, I think so. ;b;
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Sizes 1 and 4 university bases.
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That's starting to look like something. -Not just some sort of CAD drawing or something.
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That's pretty bad ass. It actually looks like observatories, and has some pretty good perspective.
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Here is a screen shot with the bases.
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Nice, what did you use to make them?
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Nice, what did you use to make them?
I am using GIMP.
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What do you think are the circled structures in the background and on the far right side of the diplomacy landscape? I am looking at a much clearer version of the hive diplomacy landscape.
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Looks like some sort of observation station, or a station in general: It has some form of antennae, probably for the transmission of some signal, I'd daresay it's a sort of outpost/sentry post.
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What do you think are the circled structures in the background and on the far right side of the diplomacy landscape? I am looking at a much clearer version of the hive diplomacy landscape.
Far right side is merely a variation of the front structure (antenna + shafts going below). For the background structure, take a look at the Hive base graphics, size 3 and 4, in the top right corner.
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I am using GIMP.
Wow, good work, i find making shapes in GIMP to be a nightmare! ???
Only suggestion i would possibly make is to add a bit of shading (light always comes from the right in SMAC/X i think), i believe you would do that with the 'Burn' tool in gimp.
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The things I have left to do before I make the perimeter defenses and aquatic versions of each base include: resizing and redoing portions of the gaian bases (this is what I am currently working on) and redetailing the morgan and labyrinth bases.
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I just figured out know has been bothering me about the original hive bases compared to the other original faction bases. What has bothered me is how detailed and close up the perspective is on their bases compared to the other faction bases.
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I just figured out know has been bothering me about the original hive bases compared to the other original faction bases. What has bothered me is how detailed and close up the perspective is on their bases compared to the other faction bases.
Most SMAX bases have the same close feel IMO. :)
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Do you like this new version of the morgan base?
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structure is absolutly in harmony with wallpaper/landscape picture
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:1st: :relief:. Morgan Bases sizes 1-4!!!! Do other artists like them as much as I do?
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Work this week has been slow due to other RL demands. Tommorrow I should have a lot more time to work on this. :)
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Here is the gaian size 1 base without the attached saucer things. Do you like the general design of the structures?
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Hard to tell what I'm looking at.
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Size 4 without attached saucers or logo applied.
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Hard to tell what I'm looking at.
I think it is hard to know exactly what the gaian bases are by looking at them.
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Hard to tell what I'm looking at.
If this is the case, then perhaps you might give some suggestions on how I could make what they are more obvious?
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Shading. Highlights on the right, shadows on the left - keeping in mind that you're shading basically cylinders. Give those suckers depth.
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I am almost done with this design nightmare :relief:.
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let put some discs along the main differentiated gaian structures
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I am hoping other players will like this version of the labyrinth bases... My question is, do you like the overall design except for the colors and absence of shading? Do you have any suggestions for improvement? Also, I hope these bases have a darker and more cramped feeling to them compared to my previous versions.
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I think I DO like - looks rather industrial, and real.
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Good news so far. Tommorrow, I will hopefully be able to finish the intial design of the gaian bases and finally get onto making the perimeter defenses and water versions. If all goes well, I hope to be done in about ~1 month :).
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:danc: :clap:
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Right now I am trimming some tree roots :P.
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:P?
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:P?
I was fixing an error I made on the gaian structure roots :). Right now I am working on the saucer structures.
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Also, in regards to the saucer structures, I think some of them have greenhouses on top because if you look at the high quality diplomacy landscapes in the art gallery, you can see plants growing inside the domes on top of these structures.
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Oh, for sure.
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Here is the size 1 gaian base. Are the saucer structures too big?
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maybe you should enlarge discs and put them a little out of main structure
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Ahhhhhh! I hope I never have to make another gaian saucer once I am done with this base set. Anyways, do you like this version better?
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No comments...... do you like or dislike the current design?
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It's just hard to say when they're not done. Final details like shading matter a lot.
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Does this help? Now what do you think of it?
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I think you're on the right track - and I haven't been feeling very talkative.
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Does this help? Now what do you think of it?
It's looking better... I'd daresay to implement some green in there though: Maybe add some vines or greenery, they are an ecologist faction after all, blending Centauri and Earthen life together.
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I'd say more variety in the root system (for each 'column/trunk').
Hive bases look perfect though. ;b;
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Sorry about my curtness yesterday. I was simply frustrated from working for hours on getting the perspective right on those saucer structures that extend out from the main structures. Also, I am going to credit all the people who have given feedback for this project and especially BUncle, JarlWolf, Geo and Ariete.
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hey dio, i love your revisiting work
i've see in your last public release of this project you haven't scanline logos, if you need i'm going to put hand (credits or not credits, doesn't matter ;))
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I think I can handle scanlining the logos. As soon as I am done with the bases, I am going to finish up the last of the logos that needed to be re-touched.
Question: Which perspective do you like better, the saucer circled in black, or the saucer circled in beige?
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i don't understand, the saucer seems the same, maybe that circled in beige is a little bit upper in perspective??
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How do these roots look?
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How do these roots look?
The bottom left is about perfect. The upper left and bottom right look too evenly spaced. The upper right is irregular, but... well... looks too chaotic and frankly ugly.
From the perspective, the black circled one (upper left) looks best.
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i prefer the upper right roots (those ''irregular'' for the belgian) few, well distinguished and stick out well themself, i think look better with more space between each one than a ''caotic'' confused mass
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I agree with Ariete on this one, I find the bottom left ones just too thick and not that appealing. The upper right looks more like actual tree roots, so that's the one im rooting for.
Edit: I like the top left one too.
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I think I have the techinques for making roots and saucers down to a fine art now.
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Gaian base size 3. What do you think. Also, I do not understand why people want tree roots to be pretty. If you look at tree roots (which I have recently for this art task) then you should know that they are rarely beautiful and often come off the tree at odd angles.
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I am going to work on this base set some more in about three days or so. Right now, I am tired.
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I don't think you should have the habitation structures and greenhouses those different colours: I think you should stick to green and yellowish green, almost sort of like this colour:
(http://99mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/jade-beads.jpg)
(http://crystal-cure.com/pics/jade-nephrite.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8113/8695137250_dd37581971_z.jpg)
Sort of like those colours. Vedgetation combined with different gases and lighting inside and other reasoning could colour it like that, plus add exposure to dual starlight it could very well age the glass more or have more effect on it.
I'm entirely sure, but I think its worth a shot.
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I have a lot of the structures those bright colors so that it is easier for me to keep track of the perspective and where they are/go. It was never my intention to color them those colors in the final version. Also, this morning I decided to take a another shot at those roots. I think they look a lot better. What do you think?
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I think they look a lot better. What do you think?
I'm happy with them... Even if it is just a Belgian (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=profile;u=3588) commenting...
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;lol no geo i'm not a belgian :P you're!!!
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I know you show yourself as Italian. But your insistent 'pokes' at my nationality have become boring to say the least.
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perhaps you should ask the UN to invoke 'sanctions'!' ;lol
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No need. I'll just close my borders to your 'faction'. :P
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Getting back on topic....
Here is the re-rooted size 2 base.
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right, absolutly magnificent. i 'd just never leave two discs of the same colour in the same column.
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Size three part 1...
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;b;
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Size three part 2...
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Size four part 1..
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I am almost done with the designing :) :'(.
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Gaian size four base parts 1 and 2...
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with that discs arrangement the column is more full.
you play with colours and discs as you prefer, combinations are multiply (never die).
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What do you think of this for the unshaded colors of the Morgan Bases?
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Pretty.
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Suiting too.
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Here is a shaded version of it using colors that are available from the game's palette.
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Also, the reason I did not post very much yesterday was because I was working on some perspective and in game image cut off issues that were occuring with the Morgan Bases. I have resolved those issues and am now doing color selection and final small fixes on the base sets :).
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Colored but not shaded Labyrinth Base.
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Does the objects on the face of the main structure look off center with respect to the perspective?
Edit: Which version do you like better? In one version, the number of pixels on each side of the flags with the logos is even but the interiors are slighlty different; while in the other version, the number of pixels on each side is different but the interior of the flags is the same.
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Gaian size four base parts 1 and 2...
They look marvelous.
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Here is a colored size four spartan base.
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Is it okay to have a small amount of cutoff occur on a base screen (the cutoff occurs on the black circled area)?
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Spartan water base size 4.
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;b;
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Do you like this wall? If you like the height and such, then I will apply barbed wire or something to the wall.
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Yeah.
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I was thinking that since the Spartans are gun happy, I should apply gun turrets to the top the of the wall.
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Even just having gun emplacements inside the wall poking through gunports and other things could do the trick.
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Even just having gun emplacements inside the wall poking through gunports and other things could do the trick.
That is an even better idea and I will make it happen.
Also, I have done a prototype for the tachyon fields which outlines the base structures in yellow. I think this is the most realistic way because it would represent the conduits that the tachyon field would come from. Lastly, I will add a structure that the tachyon field is intially generated in and is connected to all the conduits (yellow lines). The two factors I took into consideration when making this where: (a) where does the shield originate from and how could sabtoge destroy it and (b) does it cover the base from all directions?
What are your thoughts on this topic and do you like or dislike my prototype design?
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I approve.
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After much work, I would like to present a , in my opinion, very well shaded base that can be disassembled into all four sizes without any additional coloring. What is your opinion and thoughts on it?
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Looks good. How's it look in the game?
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Here is a screenshot of it. I think I might do just a touch of recoloring on the topmost structure.
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Touched up version.
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Also, please note that I shaded this pixel by pixel with a pencil tool and multiple shades of colors from the palette pcx file. It was alot harder than I thought.
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Yeah, shading isn't always easy. (A lot is two words.)
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It fifs well with the games' coloring.
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if in game some kind of base results too light (maybe these browns in spartan bases), just a touch rebalancing to a higher level of darkness, simple to do without demanding upheavals.
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What are your thoughts on this as of yet unfinished version of a morgan base?
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I like it so far.
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Finished morgan size 4 base. I mean finished if most other people like it. I even shadowed the second tower where the first one might cast a shadow onto it.
Edit: Fixed a single line of color that was off. I will not accept such an offense to the eyes.
Also, now that I have fairly complete version of it, do you like the coloring?
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Slighlt update for the undefended version and I have just finished a defended version. Do you like them?
P.S.: Morgan defends his bases with money. :)
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;grrr Does anyone have some solutions to this cutoff problem? Why did they make the base frames so large and then have the game cut off portions of it? It makes no sense and leaves me feeling frustrated and fed up with it! :mad:
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I don't know about the cut-off problem.
You've done well with the shading - except that it's turned the wrong way on the domes...
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Okay... Here is what it looks like with the cutoff problem resolved....
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Since they are so short, I was thinking of adding something in the space between them. Do you have any suggestions?
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Nothing springs to mind.
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Since they are so short, I was thinking of adding something in the space between them. Do you have any suggestions?
Something that generates energy! (wind turbines, solar panel array,...)
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a depot or any other industrial structure like a chimney, or a signal of majesty and wealth like a small thin tower or obelisk
Dio, have you removed morgan logos on the main structure or you think to restore them?? i'd liked the main structure of each faction with their own logos
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about cut-off problem, you should have a certain margin above, below and to the sides, to have all elements visible. the base must remain centred. for bases stage 3 and 4, you should stay a little smaller rather than what you can see on original facs bases.
instead that problem of trasparency could occure if you don't use a clean default.pcx file. let's try to copy your work into a new default.pcx.
you use purple or pink as background??
(i remember this when i made my custom bases so i hope to remember right)
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That's a good point about logos - Morgan puts his name on everything.
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Okay, right now I am testing which base sets will need to be changed so that they do not suffer from the cut off effect. First, sorry I went off yesterday, it just irritated me that circular structures can be very hard to make correctly in such cramped spaces and that so much of the towers were cutoff. Second, how does the gaian size four base look assembled? I realize the roots will be partly cut off on the base screen but that does not worry me.
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In addition, I have a mostly complete re work of the Spartan size four base. I made it look less like a pyrmaid and more like something else... Also, it will not suffer from the cutoff effect...
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i feel good your gaian assembled base, to avoid the cut off on the roots try to lightly tighten everything because it can stay whole in the square.
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Second, how does the gaian size four base look assembled?
Talking about a Tree'opolis! :D ;)
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For the Morgan bases, just add a smaller form of the domed structure, or even a smaller sort of domed warehouse or similar between the two colossal domed towers.
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Here is a revised edition of the size four morgan base. What are your thoughts on it?
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With a perimeter defense.
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Or their is this option... Which do you like better?
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Finished perimeter and normal size four base.
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How about an effect like this for the tachyon field?
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What about like this?
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I think I prefer the latter.
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ABOUT CUT OFF PROBLEM
if you mantein the size of the bases in each its stage and the margins compared to to the square, as in pictures below, you'll haven't cut off problem
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=642)
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=643)
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=644)
i invite you to observe also the darkness used for black and brown colors, in game certains colours appears too light
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ABOUT CUT OFF PROBLEM
if you mantein the size of the bases in each its stage and the margins compared to to the square, as in pictures below, you'll haven't cut off problem
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=642)
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=643)
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=644)
i invite you to observe also the darkness used for black and brown colors, in game certains colours appears too light
I would also like you to be aware that I took most of the colors from the enchanced diplomacy landscape and then matched them to color sets that are present in the palette file. In addition, thank you for the help with cutoff problem. I have managed to resolve this issue for the most part by tweaking the base positions.
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What do you think of this water version?
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The posts are too monochrome and need to be the same length. Otherwise, good design.
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Is it just me or does the tree on the left look too orange?
Edit: Also, I decided to remove the posts for now.
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What are your thoughts on the color so far?
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i love your gaian bases.
better colour mix, better result for me, about everything, so different colour of main tree trunk, different colour of various discs along main structures
i'd go to improve the other facs
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Ahhhhhhh....... Those saucers are so beautiful...... Their perspective...... and next thing you know they will be colored.... 8)
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So I found a high quality image of the believer's diplomacy landscape and I need some other people's thoughts/opinions on this topic. Okay, the structure to the left of the large building (left side of the image) is I think the actual church due to the presence of a semi circular structure which could be the apse.Then the small part that extends out closer to the other structure could be a transept. The small structure to right of this transept could be the sacristy. This leads me to believe it could be depicting a monastery expect that it is compacted into a smaller number of larger buildings. However, while I am now certain that those two large structures are seperate; what is the large structure with the believer's logo on it?
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This leads me to believe it could be depicting a monastery expect that it is compacted into a smaller number of larger buildings.
...
However, while I am now certain that those two large structures are seperate; what is the large structure with the believer's logo on it?
You're simply describing the "head" of a classic cathedral here.
...
The main entrance, of course. Inbetween the classic towers at the feet of alot of cathedrals.
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Here is my intial conception of what the outline of the structure on the left side of the believing landscape would look like. Note: This also fufills someone's earlier comment about making the roof have a pitch...
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This leads me to believe it could be depicting a monastery expect that it is compacted into a smaller number of larger buildings.
...
However, while I am now certain that those two large structures are seperate; what is the large structure with the believer's logo on it?
You're simply describing the "head" of a classic cathedral here.
...
The main entrance, of course. Inbetween the classic towers at the feet of alot of cathedrals.
??? How can it be a cathederal if the church structure is not directly connected to it? Cathedrals are churches but not all churches are cathederals. I was thinking perhaps the structure to the right of it is living quarters and other essential working spaces.
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I'm not telling you what it is, only how it looks.
For all I care the Believers have two adjacent cathedrals in New Jerusalem.
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So far, what are your thoughts on the believing base?
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I'm not telling you what it is, only how it looks.
For all I care the Believers have two adjacent cathedrals in New Jerusalem.
I am sorry and did not intend to aggravate you. :-[
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I can not tell if the perspective of the circular structures on the front of this base match the perspective on the rest of it. Do you think it matches?
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It seems to match to my eye. But I'm hardly an expert.
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Almost done with the design step for size 4...
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I know the colours are just to help design it architecturally so I am going to ignore that,
shape wise I really like what you are doing with the Believer's structures. I realize that ;miriam; is not Catholic or anything related, and is more likely part of Southern United States protestant churches,
but part of me also thinks: Looking to her background, she was proclaimed a messiah in her own right. Not a second Christ of course, but almost a prophet. I would daresay that her religion that she preaches, while stemmed in Abrahamic religion and Christianity, is not truly Christianity. It's related, it probably views Jesus Christ in a similar manner, but something tells me it's also radically different.
And this is why I think, that her structures won't follow Protestant designs. Her religion, much like the cult of and status of messiah around her, and the power and almost matronly charisma she has, is monolithic and very imposing in it's own right. And thus her buildings reflect that, the architecture of the Believers, while I am guessing is not overly ornate or focused on wealth like Catholics, is grand, massive buildings, monolithic and imposing. Hewed of stone and brick with glass panels, as the sun shines through like a holy purifying light that, to evoke huge spiritual feelings within those who walk the stony halls, and hear their footsteps echo and eminate throughout the massive interior's of the churches.
It's not a display of wealth, but rather a testament of faith in her and her followers mind, to amplify their feeling of faith.
In short, I like the buildings. I think they suit really well with what you are doing.
Edit: And I'll be honest with you,
Even if per say people don't use the entire alternates you provide, I gaurentee you that many people will kind of pick and choose for factions to replace the buildings with. I firmly believe that your work here is going to affec many people, looking at your progress.
I can say personally I will be officially adopting your Believer structures to replace the originals, and I might replace the Gaians with yours too. I am still thinking on the Morgans, I like the Hive how it originally is, your version of the Spartans looks cool, it truly does, but I think the current ones suit me fine.
The others I am undecided about. I'll of course test the entire package, but I can tell you right now I will be taking some of these hard worked graphics you've made and replacing them with the originals on my machine and they will become my norm.
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I know the colours are just to help design it architecturally so I am going to ignore that,
shape wise I really like what you are doing with the Believer's structures. I realize that ;miriam; is not Catholic or anything related, and is more likely part of Southern United States protestant churches,
but part of me also thinks: Looking to her background, she was proclaimed a messiah in her own right. Not a second Christ of course, but almost a prophet. I would daresay that her religion that she preaches, while stemmed in Abrahamic religion and Christianity, is not truly Christianity. It's related, it probably views Jesus Christ in a similar manner, but something tells me it's also radically different. :)
And this is why I think, that her structures won't follow Protestant designs. Her religion, much like the cult of and status of messiah around her, and the power and almost matronly charisma she has, is monolithic and very imposing in it's own right. And thus her buildings reflect that, the architecture of the Believers, while I am guessing is not overly ornate or focused on wealth like Catholics, is grand, massive buildings, monolithic and imposing. Hewed of stone and brick with glass panels, as the sun shines through like a holy purifying light that, to evoke huge spiritual feelings within those who walk the stony halls, and hear their footsteps echo and eminate throughout the massive interior's of the churches.
It's not a display of wealth, but rather a testament of faith in her and her followers mind, to amplify their feeling of faith.
In short, I like the buildings. I think they suit really well with what you are doing.
Edit: And I'll be honest with you,
Even if per say people don't use the entire alternates you provide, I gaurentee you that many people will kind of pick and choose for factions to replace the buildings with. I firmly believe that your work here is going to affec many people, looking at your progress.
I can say personally I will be officially adopting your Believer structures to replace the originals, and I might replace the Gaians with yours too. I am still thinking on the Morgans, I like the Hive how it originally is, your version of the Spartans looks cool, it truly does, but I think the current ones suit me fine.
The others I am undecided about. I'll of course test the entire package, but I can tell you right now I will be taking some of these hard worked graphics you've made and replacing them with the originals on my machine and they will become my norm.
This statement personally means a lot to me and makes me want to continue working due to other people's interest in my work rather than solely due to my own ambition.
I have finished the design and started coloring it. So if anybody spots any anomalies in the perspective or design please notify me and I will do my best to fix them.
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From what I can see, the only anomalies is the colours at this stage. It's a bit too varied in colour for the Believers methinks.
Architecturally it looks sound.
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:ok: it looks so good, maybe too colours and less blue
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I do not know how to make it less blue while still keeping the cold stone look... Anyways, here is a fully colored version of it. Does the base look to small? Perhaps I should try to fit another structure in this space?
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It looks great! Ingame screenshot? Pretty please?
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i wanted mean there were too colors in your belivers structure, but less blue
anyway absolutly great work dio
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Here is a screenshot.
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The proportions look right, maybe just shift it to the diagonally to the down and left on the square, instead of to the right how it currently is.
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Completed sizes 1 and 4 conclave bases. Any comments, thoughts, suggestions? I am currently working on the size 2 and 3 conclave bases. After that, I am going to make the water and perimeter defense versions.
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Just change the white roofs to ones more matching to existing. Everything else looks good.
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The proportions look right, maybe just shift it to the diagonally to the down and left on the square, instead of to the right how it currently is.
Dunno, kinda like it how it was, even if it pushed in the neighbouring tile (NE).
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Any suggestions for improvement on this base (please ignore the fact it is uncolored).
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Give the towers a different height?
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Shorten height of tower on far left by about half, increase height of one of them by a third more to add variety.
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Your work reminds me of manual pixel by pixel spriting in OpenTTD. :) Nice work! Personally I like to throw on some texturing and shading too but it's still amazing attention to detail, shapes, perspective and sizes etc. Keep it up hey. :)
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Weird, no update yet. ;)
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Do you like the layout and size of structures so far for the keeper bases? If you answer yes, then I will continue making the bases with this size in mind. Otherwise, I will try different sizes.
Edit: I have begun to put into effect the suggestions provided for the University bases.
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Good work on the perspective.
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I might say, nudge the rear two bases a bit closer together, so it's an equilateral triangle of buildings. :)
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Here is an updated version of the university base. I made all the structures slightly different in height and placed the tallest structure in front and the shortest on the right.
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Here is a almost finished design of a university base.
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I think this is closer to what I had originally envisioned for the keeper base.
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Any suggestions for improvements or comments on this base in regards to its design (except for color which I will work on later)? Do you like the overall design of it?
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Looking forward to see it properly colored so I can better see what all those secondary structures are. :D
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Wow, looks great. I know I'm jumping ahead (or, perhaps, behind...as it's possible this was addressed somewhere in the past 59 pages already), but has anyone done any work on either of the following -
(1) Adding additional base levels - either additional population sizes, or additional defensive tiers.
(2) New unit graphics
I'm simply curious if either is even possible.
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You mean going up an entire new tier, like adding new ones?
I'm not exactly sure. Graphically it wouldn't be too hard to make... but coding wise would be entirely different.
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Yep, I do mean creating entirely new levels - if I remember correctly, there are 3 defensive tiers and 4 (or 5?) population tiers, along with the land/submerged tier. At a minimum I'd love to see more population tiers be possible to increase base variability but also have some new ideas for base defenses and automated passive offense that might be interesting.
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Well graphically it wouldn't be too much a problem (at least for someone like me): You'd just have to create a new sprite for that.
However, I am not sure the other bits are possible, as a new defencive level would require a new tech or something similar, and there is a limit to how many technologies you can have in the game.
I also believe there may be a population cap for your cities as well: Once it hits a certain population it's done. I'm not too sure though, been a while since I've got that high of population in my cities.
I would state just on my knowledge alone that coding for larger cities is possible, but might be a bit difficult. As for new defencive tiers, it's probably possible, just the question is, is it really worth the pain and trouble to add something like that when there is already high tier defences available?
As stated graphics wise, no problem. People design new sprites all the time, and if you've seen some of my custom factions I vary the defencive structures a fair bit.
But again, the problem would lie in coding. I'd talk to Yitzi or the other coding experts amongst our forum.
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Bumping for interest... others will want to read- new post, new activity.
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The factions for the "Santiago AAR" are as follows:
Conclave:
^+1 GROWTH: {Willingly accepts most converts to their faith}
^+2 SUPPORT: {Followers eagerly defend their beliefs}
^-1 RESEARCH: {Followers are suspicious of secular science}
^-1 POLICE: {Believes in certain ethical and moral standards of behavior}
^Faction is immune to negative Social SUPPORT effects: {Religious Hierarchy is always supportive}
^Bases and units are immune to enemy subversion: {Followers are impossible to re-brain wash.}
^+25% bonus when attacking: {Due to strength of convictions.}
^-1 Labs at each base: {Laboratories come after religious functions}
^{Can not use the Knowledge Value in social engineering.}
Gaians:
^+1 PLANET: {Wants to preserve and understand native life}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers are suspicious of large military deployments}
^Free Biology Lab at each base: {In-depth research of Planet's life}
^+1 Nutrient production in Fungus: {Extensive study of Planet's life allows extra yields from Xeno-Fungus}
^-1 Mineral Production in Fungus: {Does not want to spoil natural beauty of planet}
^+25% during PSI Combat: {Deep emotional connection with Planetary Mind}
^Terraforming costs for raising or lowering land are halved: {Exprience with terraforming projects}
^-2 Morale for ALL units: (Pacifist tendiencies)
^{Can not use the Free Market Economics in social engineering.}
Labyrinth:
^+1 INDUSTRY: (Brutal Serfdom)
^+1 POLICE: (Extensive Government Monitoring of Populace)
^-2 ECONOMY: (Few Economic Freedoms)
^Immune to the negative social effects of running Police State: (Preferred Form of Governance)
^Double the negative social effects for running Fundamentalist: (Runs against the faction's agenda)
^Immune to Negative Morale Modifiers: (Troops are always kept ready for war)
^Hurrying costs reduced by 25%: (Can readily call for additional labor to hurry production)
^Techcosts increased by 25%: (Isolationist policies reduce exchange of information and techniques)
^{Can not use Democratic Politics in social engineering.}
Keepers:
^+1 TALENT at each base plus an additional talent for every 3 Population: (Attracts Intellectual Elite)
^-1 MORALE: (Prefers diplomatic solutions over open war)
^Double the votes in elections for Planetary Governer and Supreme Leader: (Extremely charismatic)
^+1 Mineral Production in Fungus: (Practices controlled mining of fungus resources)
^-1 Energy Production in Fungus: (Tries to strike a balance on Planet)
^Hab Population Limits relaxed by 2: (Followers live austerely and harmoniously)
^Automatically discovers any Tech known by at least three other factions: (Stems from his Planetary Government)
^-3% Interest on his energy reserves each year: (Bureaucratic Wastefulness)
^{Can not use the Thought Control Future Society in social engineering.}
Morgans:
^+1 ECONOMY: {Is a Corporate Conglomerate}
^-1 EFFIC: {Corporate wastefulness and inefficency}
^Has halved negative social effects from POLICE: {Extensive policing of the factions' economic system}
^-1 Nutrient production in Fungus: {Uninterested in studying native life}
^+1 Commerce: {Economic climate conductive to trade}
^+100 Energy Credits at the start of a new game: {Has extensive assets}
^Gets 3% interest on his energy credit reserves per year: {Intelligent and productive investments}
^Hab population restrictions tightened by 3: {Creature comforts at a premium}
^{Can not use Planned Economics in social engineering.}
Archons:
^+1 RESEARCH: {Brilliant research}
^+1 EFFICENCY: {Runs faction through application of logic}
^-1 PLANET: {Does not care about the Planet except to study it}
^-1 PROBE: {Academic networks prone to infilitration}
^Gets two free tech picks at the start of a game: {Downloaded files from the Unity before Planetfall}
^Tech Costs reduced by 25%: {Extensive collabration between researchers}
^+3 Labs at each base: {Excellent Laboratory Facilities}
^Additional drone at a base for every three population: {Lack of Ethics}
^[Can not use Fundamentalist politics in social engineering.]
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Popping over to give my thoughts on balance stuff since I just suggested these be used to replace SMAX factions in the SMAC in SMAX project :) Assuming you're aiming for good balance with the original seven here:
Conclave:
^+2 SUPPORT: {Followers eagerly defend their beliefs}
^+1 GROWTH: {Willingly accepts most converts to their faith}
^-1 RESEARCH: {Followers are suspicious of secular science}
^-1 POLICE: {Believes in certain ethical and moral standards of behavior}
^Faction is immune to negative Social SUPPORT effects: {Religious Hierarchy is always supportive}
^Bases and units are immune to enemy subversion: {Followers are impossible to re-brain wash.}
^+25% bonus when attacking: {Due to strength of convictions.}
^-1 Labs at each base: {Laboratories come after religious functions}
^{Can not use the Knowledge Value in social engineering.}
Pretty similar to standard, but better in virtually every way. Same support bonus, Growth beats Probe any day, -1 Police does very little. Immunity to support does nothing in normal games due to +2 Support. -1 Research and -1 labs per base does give them an even more crippling tech start, but once you get out of earlygame it's a less harsh penalty than -2 Research. Overall.. a lot better than original mid-late, but probably similar early on. Probably okay, but I'd consider doing -2 Police or something to give a more significant penalty.
Gaians:
^+1 PLANET: {Wants to preserve and understand native life}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers are suspicious of large military deployments}
^Free Biology Lab at each base: {In-depth research of Planet's life}
^+1 Nutrient production in Fungus: {Extensive study of Planet's life allows extra yields from Xeno-Fungus}
^-1 Mineral Production in Fungus: {Does not want to spoil natural beauty of planet}
^+25% during PSI Combat: {Deep emotional connection with Planetary Mind}
^Terraforming costs for raising or lowering land are halved: {Exprience with terraforming projects}
^-2 Morale for ALL units: (Pacifist tendiencies)
^{Can not use the Free Market Economics in social engineering.}
hmm.. fairly different from standard, adding free bio labs from the start is a big deal, as is that +25% Psi, and the two potentially work together well... but you've really crippled them in other ways. -1 support with -2 morale is nasty, will make it really hard to field even a passable non-native army. I *think* the native focus will pay off once they get Green, and the worm rush will stop them falling apart at the start, but overall seems a bit weak. Consider giving them something to help them a bit, like turning +1 fungnuts to +2? Not sure if they need it, but maybe worth trying.
Labyrinth:
^+1 INDUSTRY: (Brutal Serfdom)
^+1 POLICE: (Extensive Government Monitoring of Populace)
^-2 ECONOMY: (Few Economic Freedoms)
^Immune to the negative social effects of running Police State: (Preferred Form of Governance)
^Double the negative social effects for running Fundamentalist: (Runs against the faction's agenda)
^Immune to Negative Morale Modifiers: (Troops are always kept ready for war)
^Hurrying costs reduced by 25%: (Can readily call for additional labor to hurry production)
^Techcosts increased by 25%: (Isolationist policies reduce exchange of information and techniques)
^{Can not use Democratic Politics in social engineering.}
Hive who will love wealth, okay. I like the changes here, I think, except from making Planned not so good. They'll have horrible research until they get wealth, at which point they get a lot better. Loss of growth and PDs hurts, but good ind+hurry bonus is really cool. If they have someone to probe early on they could be overpowered easily.
Keepers:
^+1 TALENT at each base plus an additional talent for every 3 Population: (Attracts Intellectual Elite)
^-1 MORALE: (Prefers diplomatic solutions over open war)
^Double the votes in elections for Planetary Governer and Supreme Leader: (Extremely charismatic)
^+1 Mineral Production in Fungus: (Practices controlled mining of fungus resources)
^-1 Energy Production in Fungus: (Tries to strike a balance on Planet)
^Hab Population Limits relaxed by 2: (Followers live austerely and harmoniously)
^Automatically discovers any Tech known by at least three other factions: (Stems from his Planetary Government)
^-3% Interest on his energy reserves each year: (Bureaucratic Wastefulness)
^{Can not use the Thought Control Future Society in social engineering.}
No groundbreaking changes, - interest is annoying but can be worked around by spending constantly. Probably a bit weaker than original due to Morale, especially early on, but also won't fall too far behind in tech which helps make up for it.
Morgans:
^+1 ECONOMY: {Is a Corporate Conglomerate}
^-1 EFFIC: {Corporate wastefulness and inefficency}
^Has halved negative social effects from POLICE: {Extensive policing of the factions' economic system}
^-1 Nutrient production in Fungus: {Uninterested in studying native life}
^+1 Commerce: {Economic climate conductive to trade}
^+100 Energy Credits at the start of a new game: {Has extensive assets}
^Gets 3% interest on his energy credit reserves per year: {Intelligent and productive investments}
^Hab population restrictions tightened by 3: {Creature comforts at a premium}
^{Can not use Planned Economics in social engineering.}
Strong. Really strong. Effic stings a little, but 3% interest+Econ+Commerce+being able to run FM super easily is a really huge deal. Maybe the AI would not play it right, but in human hands this thing should be crazy. Takes all the things that makes normal morgan arguably the best builder and adds two things which have amazing synergy with his bonuses, while only giving one mild penalty (and removing an existing penalty). Needs something more holding it back (I'd say larger effic problems, except that humans can just crawl to HQ) and/or important bonuses being toned down.
Archons:
^+1 RESEARCH: {Brilliant research}
^+1 EFFICENCY: {Runs faction through application of logic}
^-1 PLANET: {Does not care about the Planet except to study it}
^-1 PROBE: {Academic networks prone to infilitration}
^Gets two free tech picks at the start of a game: {Downloaded files from the Unity before Planetfall}
^Tech Costs reduced by 25%: {Extensive collabration between researchers}
^+3 Labs at each base: {Excellent Laboratory Facilities}
^Additional drone at a base for every three population: {Lack of Ethics}
^[Can not use Fundamentalist politics in social engineering.]
Downright amazing tech earlygame. And midgame, and all of it really. These guys have research turned up to 11. I doubt the -Planet and even larger will hold them back much in human hands (especially with probe now only -1), though the AI may struggle with drones. Likely needs some nerfing, maybe reduce that +3 labs and 25% techcost drop? Or up one of their disadvantages?
And you did not post current sparta?
First four seem pretty sound. Lots of bonuses makes it hard to tell very carefully what will end up working, but they seem well balanced enough that a few playthroughs and maybe a minor tweak should put them on the right level. My guess is Conclave and Labyrinth will want mild nerfs, and Gaia/keepers are okay as they are. The last two seem much stronger than the rest and originals, and would become insanely good builders if played well, with mostly overcomable (drone control facils to the max) or token penalties and huge, huge bonuses with excellent synergy.
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Hmm interesting remix. Of those I would say Morgan is much stronger than the rest. Gaians look rather weak. Would have to play and test though.
Are you trying to work in every available modifier to each faction (I assume as it looks this way)?
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Thanks, Nexii :). I am glad someone else took an interest in my attempts at modifing the original seven factions. I have limited the bonuses because I want them to be playable in both SMAC and SMAX. Suggestions and comments from people playtesting them is encouraged and welcome.
A more recent look at the factions:
Gaians:
SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, -GROWTH, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, --POLICE, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1,
FUNGMINERALS, -1, PSI, 25, TERRAFORM, 0,
Keepers:
VOTES, 2, TALENT, 4, FUNGENERGY, 1, SOCIAL, -MORALE, FUNGNUTRIENT, -1, IMMUNITY, SUPPORT, POPULATION, -2, HURRY, 125,
Morgan:
SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, SOCIAL, -EFFIC, COMMERCE, 1, HURRY, 75, ENERGY, 100, INTEREST, 3, POPULATION, 3,
Archons:
TECH, 2, SOCIAL, +RESEARCH, SOCIAL, -PROBE, SHARETECH, 3, TECHCOST, 90, RESEARCH, 2, DRONE, 4, MORALE, -1
Spartans:
SOCIAL, +MORALE, SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, -PLANET, ROBUST, EFFIC, UNIT, 11, FREEPROTO, 0, TECHCOST, 125,
Conclave:
SOCIAL, ++GROWTH, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, --RESEARCH, FUNGMINERALS, 1, FUNGENERGY, -1, FANATIC, 0, MINDCONTROL, 0, RESEARCH, -1,
Labyrinth:
SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, ---ECONOMY, FACILITY, 4, IMPUNITY, Police State, PENALTY, Fundamentalist, MORALE, 0, COMMERCE, -2, INTEREST, -3,
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Are you looking more for thematic feedback or balance?
Comparing against each other I would boost Gaia and Labyrinth a bit. -2 POL is really crippling on Transcend to start the game. Later on it isn't so bad.
Similarly -3 ECON is really crippling to start for Labyrinth. See my SE set - Planned - I gave it +2 IND, +1 SUP, -3 ECON, -1 EFFIC and even that only sort of counters how terrible it is early super early. In fact, it makes Yang rely on RNG to get any energy early game. Since he doesn't start with Centauri Ecology you end up having 0 energy until you discover a monolith or river.
The rest are fairly close - would say Morgan is the most powerful. Keepers and Archons are pretty good, though not quite as good as Morgan. Spartans and Conclave somewhat below the others mentioned aside from Gaia and Labyrinth. So I would rank the tier list like this
1 - Morgan
2 - Keepers, Archons
3 - Spartans, Conclave
4 - Gaians, Labyrinth
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@Dio, did you see/have any comments on my balance suggestions from the previous page? If you want I can do another on these new pages.
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Here is a logo variation I decided to make on a whim that is pretty much identical to the Morgan logo shown in the new icons.pcx.
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Believe and gaian logos.
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That Gaian logo looks very smart and crisp.
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It really does. ;b;
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What are your thoughts on this hive logo? Could it fit the character of the faction or leader?
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It sorta says Big Yang is Watching, so yeah...
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University/Archon logo. Any comments, suggestions, comparisions, etc.?
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Ah, the Archon logo in reverse color like it shows on the diplomacy landscape. ;b;
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Spartan Logo.
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Revised Morgan Logo.
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The blue doesn't swing it for me.
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Green?
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Where's Dio's "New Icons.pcx" when you need it?
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Do either of these two color palettes look better?
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;nod
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Second one.
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Which do you think is the most visually appealing?
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What about the first version as an alternative to the second?
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I still like the second better...
Which do you think is the most visually appealing?
I can tell a little difference in the last, but none between first and second. I prefer first and second, but don't feel strongly.
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I can't tell any difference at all between those three spartan logos, sorry!
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Your observations have been noted. You can enjoy this fantastic piece of art while you wait for the revisions.
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Top most of the Spartan logo's (I think I see a difference between the first two).
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Which of these logos do you think is most appealing? Note: The eyes are identical in the two logos.
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As a joke:
The satanic version.
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Revised Spartan Logo.
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;b;
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=10119)
This one, the upper, by a hair.
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=10121)
This one's the funniest yet.
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Thoughts? Comments? Recommendations?
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Still like this one and its Big Brother Tie Fighter from Mordor look... They all say the right things...
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4102.0;attach=10119)
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I will work with that. Here is a pretty much complete set of logos for the Spartan.pcx file. Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions for improvement?
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I've never understood how the enclosed arrow symbolized Spartan ideas or whatever...
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I've never understood how the enclosed arrow symbolized Spartan ideas or whatever...
It is very close to the symbol of Ares (Mars), god of war. The difference is that the arrow in Ares' symbol is external and points off to the upper right. The Spartans symbol has the arrow inside pointing down. It could mean the warrior culture being internalized in the self.
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Hmm. Female orientation for a war symbol. That's Santi, all right.
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I have decided to make the "mouse over" version of the 39 by 27 pixel logo darker than the "on" version. I noticed that the "mouse over" version is identical to the "on" version in the original set.
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Yep, and I think they really missed a trick, there. Do that for the whole set and make them consistent.
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I created multiple versions of the Labyrinth Logo because I wanted to make sure that other people realized the two objects on each side of the eye are supposed to be walls...
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Ultimately, all that really matters is looking good...
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The moons floating in the sky above Morgan's Corporate Empire.
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I think I liked one of the last tries better...
Still enjoying the sig smilie whenever you post.
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I personally like this version better because it gives the three objects around the tower a more defined shape. Why do you like a earlier attempt better?
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...I think because the latest tries look even more like crescent moons and even less like broadcast dishes...
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Which type of object do you think is most appropriate for Morgan, the crescent moons or the dishes? The image below shows the crescent moons.
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I see a statue of a horned bull facing away and a dragon with a curved neck, both cresent moon-shaped. Also two globes, I think, in cradle frames, providing two more, of sorts. So justification, yes, but I thought I was looking at a broadcasting tower in the logo, therefore dishes, which are at least also half-moon shapes...
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I was specifically mentioning the embedded logo in front of his desk...
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That's the ultimate symbol of greed, (not counting Gordon Gecko and Donald [Sleezebag],) Pac Man.
Though I will say Morgan himself seems to be doing very serious jumping jacks against me at the bottom of your post...
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I am glad that you finally see how I plan to take over the money ratings after dominating the forums with my activity. Also, I am happy that you agree with my decision to include moons because I (Morgan) always talk about how my corporation will be taken beyond planet's surface.
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Perhaps you (Morgan) intend a visual pun, at that.
Pay me in American money - I don't take yer space dollars, of which you gots only 12.
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Pay me in American money - I don't take yer space dollars, of which you gots only 12.
I may be able to provide probe infiltration info on the rest of his savings on the energy bank...
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No point - he spends it on shop goodies as fast as EC comes in, instead of making himself a Bank multi-billionaire like I am. Interest is OP.
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That interest is only powerful because you have a few million energy credits in The Bank (Property of Morgan Bank). I have since that time proven a ability to save my money for the bank. You do not know how close I am to being equal with Ete in saved energy credits.
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No, I've got over two billion in the Bank - and I clearly need to go have a look at the top ten accounts...
Interest used to be something like 2% compounded daily before sisko cut it to .08 to slow down the dawning of the day that me and Name break the innerwebs with the weight of the wealth. But once you've gotten up to around 10,000 EC, you'll no longer be able to earn posting ECs as fast...
ariete made his entire fortune with a single 50 EC deposit back when interest was REALLY OP, and Name's fortune was just a deposit of a few thousand once 2.3 years ago, and I took forever to catch up and pass him posting an alarmingly high percentage of my winning PC in the form of science articles at 10 EC a pop...
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I've got 2,255,981,510 EC in the bank, count the commas, and I see ete is up at the point of earning over 2 EC a day, which adds up as it compounds. -And with this post, I have 500 EC, the maximum deposit, five shy of the point at which I do so to minimize the hit from the 5 EC deposit fee...
Yes. I earn in excess of 200,000 EC a day in interest, and I still make 500 EC deposits anyway; I'm greedy, and I use it to motivate me to post moar.
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I have been surprised at how quickly Geo has risen in the number of energy credits saved in the bank.
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He must be depositing, too, because he's earned at least 2350 EC and only has 66 showing in-pocket. I had not noticed his rise - been paying less attention to the Bank this month.
The people at the top of the money in-pocket list, like Green? Doing it wrong. That fake forum money could be making fake forum money.
And ariete just makes a withdrawal w/o worry any time he feels like stickying a thread...
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Oh, that's easily explained. I made two deposits in a row a few days ago. I saw the bank mentioned and then saw the amount by the PC.
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While we're entirely off topic talking about fake forum money, I ought to mention that the size of my Bank fortune is puny compared to what it ought to be - at some point over about a year-and-a-half ago after I finally passed Name, I knocked a digit off the end of my, Name, sisko, Kilkakon and ariete's fortunes to reduce the disparity with everyone else. In short, I would be worth substantially in excess of 20 billion by now, given over a year of compound interest, if there hadn't been an artificial adjustment. In don't remember exactly when I did that, and the math's a bit complicated for my blood even if I did, but the difference adds up to substantially more than x10, I believe...
I'd have done it again, actually, earlier this year, but either a control has disappeared in a forum update, or I've seriously forgotten something. No sign of a way to tamper with Bank accounts anymore, though I never cheated in my favor that way.
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Talking about bank account tampering, I noticed a few zero-post registrees with a 1,000 energy on their account? And that was probably just the top of the list...
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I never knew what the deal with that was, but I imagine that if you checked those accounts, you'd find that every single one signed up in the first month or so after sisko set up this forum in early 2010 - and it stands to reason that the factory default on the SMF software gave every new registrant 1,000 EC exactly before sisko changed the setting. -And I bet every one of them bots. They make my Mighty Bot Slayer/buncle powers tingle at a casual glance.
I'm almost tempted to put that setting back at 500 EC or so, and turn off the all-free-all-the-time avatars, if only I thought people would do it instead of going without... But far too few people have taken advantage of our copious store of installed avatars free to change under that system, and I want people not running around nekkid to the max I can encourage, so no go on that...
---
You haven't noticed anything different about your account, have you?
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I'm not a librarian anymore, if that's what you mean.
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You were a librarian IRL at some point? The buncle powers strike again, if so. I was just making a joke.
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I noticed someone added an Ampersand under my title. ::)
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:D ;)
Because you're talented, m'man. ;nod
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I have heard most long term librarians really love their job or simply do the work because it is not too physically or mentally demanding.
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I would like to know exactly what others think that the Labyrinth logo should convey. Some individuals have stated in the past that the logo should show that Yang/Big Brother is watching. Do you think the two sides should be curved or fairly straight? My opinion is inside the spoiler. I would like to know your opinion on the matter before seeing my opinion.
I believe the sides should mimic a wall that is receding towards a vanishing point in the background.
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Which of the original seven factions do you think would be the most likely to get the MORALE, 0 bonus? I realized it not only prevents the negative morale effect of SOCIAL, MORALE, but also the negative morale modifier from drone riots.
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Probably Believers. Harder to tank morale as Spartans. Could fit Hive too but with immune effic I feel they're a bit stronger than Believers already. Granted, all the default factions are fairly close.
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Which of the original seven factions do you think would be the most likely to get the MORALE, 0 bonus? I realized it not only prevents the negative morale effect of SOCIAL, MORALE, but also the negative morale modifier from drone riots.
Peacekeepers.
They go all out for the happy/educated people (+talent).
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Working on balancing the bonuses and penalities of my alternate seven factions. My current iteration has worked surprisingly well except for a few minor issues that I am ironing out.
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Yea, of course they don't need to be perfect to be balanced 'enough'. I find that there's already a lot of random factors that tend to have more impact than faction. Personally I would prefer a faction set where each faction has a distinct feel to it. You can argue the default 7 sort of do...though a lot of them end up with similar playstyles. If you are happy with the set you should post a ZIP with the faction TXT files, and I'll give them a try
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I am waiting for approval of the download which includes my most recent version of the factions.
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Done.
;b;
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Here are some partially finished logos for Morgan. The most difficult logo to create was the 65x 50 pixel version because it contains some irregularities. What color do you think would best match the logo for the "ribbing" (currently light blue pixels) in the logo?
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I'd try a bit of a deeper blue- not too much but just a bit. Sort of the same colour as this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Untitled_blue_monochrome.png)
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If I had to rank them for power, it'd be something like:
Morgan (+1 IND/ECON is huge. No Green's interesting but FM is fine, if you manage it right.)
Keepers (-1 MORALE isn't too bad, but the 125 rush means putting more to labs. they were really good before, vote*2 & talent/4 are great)
Gaians (the %PSI is quite strong due to my native life cost rebalancing. they start slow though and green doesn't help.)
Conclave (no real huge upside or downside. interestingly in my set the only that can easy boom with Demo+Planned. Fund/FM/Wealth is pretty good for them in either se set)
Labyrinth (doesn't start with the needed SEs. 0 ECON/-1 EFFIC isn't horrible but it is a significant downside. in my set PS/Planned gives more probe/ind than sup/grow, so playstyle differs some)
Archons (the tech cost 125 I feel offsets a lot of their tech bonuses. techshare 3 unfortunately only serves as a catchup & drones/4 is a fairly painful downside)
Sparta (+1 POL/MORALE is okay, but -1 IND is quite painful. -2 COMMERCE makes sense but overall they just don't have much upside).
Though note I mod a lot of things - most notably SEs, ecodamage, and unit costing. From top to bottom there's a decent spread but between each I wouldn't say there's a huge power gap. Overall I'd say most of these factions feel weaker than the originals, much like my modded SE set. Though of course it's all relative :)
I think of these factions Gaia and Labyrinth are the most interesting, at least for playstyle. If giving Archons techshare, wouldn't +PROBE and reduced probe costs make more sense than -PROBE? I'm thinking maybe boost up their stealing potential, and give Conclave the -PROBE. Conclave could get something else like more +GROWTH. Labyrinth needs a small boost, maybe some defensive combat bonus. Spartans need a lot more. Maybe something unique like a free unit ability like Deep Radar, and/or High Morale. Morgan needs a little more downside, perhaps -2 PLANET.
I wonder if the fungus bonuses would be more interesting at +2. +1 usually doesn't help a lot until very late. Maybe something to explain more from a thematic POV. Also noted a lot of the free techs were taken out, maybe give the other factions a tech they didn't have before? It seems you're trying to represent most bonuses/penalties which I think is interesting.
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If I had to rank them for power, it'd be something like:
Morgan (+1 IND/ECON is huge. No Green's interesting but FM is fine, if you manage it right.)
Keepers (-1 MORALE isn't too bad, but the 125 rush means putting more to labs. they were really good before, vote*2 & talent/4 are great)
Gaians (the %PSI is quite strong due to my native life cost rebalancing. they start slow though and green doesn't help.)
Conclave (no real huge upside or downside. interestingly in my set the only that can easy boom with Demo+Planned. Fund/FM/Wealth is pretty good for them in either se set)
Labyrinth (doesn't start with the needed SEs. 0 ECON/-1 EFFIC isn't horrible but it is a significant downside. in my set PS/Planned gives more probe/ind than sup/grow, so playstyle differs some)
Archons (the tech cost 125 I feel offsets a lot of their tech bonuses. techshare 3 unfortunately only serves as a catchup & drones/4 is a fairly painful downside)
Sparta (+1 POL/MORALE is okay, but -1 IND is quite painful. -2 COMMERCE makes sense but overall they just don't have much upside).
Though note I mod a lot of things - most notably SEs, ecodamage, and unit costing. From top to bottom there's a decent spread but between each I wouldn't say there's a huge power gap. Overall I'd say most of these factions feel weaker than the originals, much like my modded SE set. Though of course it's all relative :)
I think of these factions Gaia and Labyrinth are the most interesting, at least for playstyle. If giving Archons techshare, wouldn't +PROBE and reduced probe costs make more sense than -PROBE? I'm thinking maybe boost up their stealing potential, and give Conclave the -PROBE. Conclave could get something else like more +GROWTH. Labyrinth needs a small boost, maybe some defensive combat bonus. Spartans need a lot more. Maybe something unique like a free unit ability like Deep Radar, and/or High Morale. Morgan needs a little more downside, perhaps -2 PLANET.
I wonder if the fungus bonuses would be more interesting at +2. +1 usually doesn't help a lot until very late. Maybe something to explain more from a thematic POV. Also noted a lot of the free techs were taken out, maybe give the other factions a tech they didn't have before? It seems you're trying to represent most bonuses/penalties which I think is interesting.
Thank you for the feedback.
I think that the University/Archons should get techshare because their agenda is "Free Flow of Information" and that might involve the transfer of ideas and knowledge between the researchers of each faction. As such, the Archons/University automatically discover a unknown technology known by x other factions by putting together the bits of information recieved from each of the x factions. However, this free exchange of information system also leaves the faction vunerable to infilitration by enemy probe teams that want to access said information. Therefore, I think it could make sense that the University/Archons could get -1 PROBE. Also, the University/Archons have increased tech costs because they can want to pursue research unsupported and uninfluenced by any corportation or government because said grants often have specific strings attached to them.
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A more 'free low of information' / ethical Archons might not have the -DRONES penalty? Or maybe +TALENT/4 and DRONE/4 (stratified society), though I'm not sure how that might play out. I think that would put them about average, but then you probably want that penalty elsewhere. Could go to Morgan. Could give them +2 RES again also, but even then I feel they'd need a bit more. I guess in the default SE set Fund aversion isn't so bad...in my set its more powerful at +2 SUP/+2 MORALE/-3 RESEARCH. Still they do seem to lack a bit in upside. Reduced hurry costs might be thematic too...thinking more for SPs they would be efficient?
A lot of this is how good they are relatively for a human player. I think due to certain AI flags/playstyle it seems that aggressive/expansionist factions like Hive and Believers do better for AI.
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A more 'free low of information' / ethical Archons might not have the -DRONES penalty? Or maybe +TALENT/4 and DRONE/4 (stratified society), though I'm not sure how that might play out. I think that would put them about average, but then you probably want that penalty elsewhere. Could go to Morgan. Could give them +2 RES again also, but even then I feel they'd need a bit more. I guess in the default SE set Fund aversion isn't so bad...in my set its more powerful at +2 SUP/+2 MORALE/-3 RESEARCH. Still they do seem to lack a bit in upside. Reduced hurry costs might be thematic too...thinking more for SPs they would be efficient?
A lot of this is how good they are relatively for a human player. I think due to certain AI flags/playstyle it seems that aggressive/expansionist factions like Hive and Believers do better for AI.
I am currently testing to see how a +SUPPORT bonus interacts with his other bonuses. I have presently increased the Spartan MORALE bonus to +2. I am also considering giving Yang +2 Mineral production in Fungus while giving Miriam Immunity to negative SUPPORT effects.
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That could work - Sparta might need a little more still...maybe a military bonus or something like NODRONE /+2 POL. I kind of like bonuses that encourage factions to go for their preferred SE like IMMUNITY, though that can be very powerful just on its own. And unfortunately can make it so the faction has to run that SE all the time, like Yang with PS. I guess it's always that trade-off, keeping with a theme against game balance.
+1 SUP for Yang with default SEs would be quite helpful, giving him +3 with PS. Even in my set it would be very helpful since it'd give him +3 SUP with Fund instead. SUP for the aggressive factions makes sense to me.
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Revised University Logo. Currently working on both the peacekeeper and hive logos.
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I am feeling ;clenchedteeth with making a logo that looks good for the labyrinth/Hive. I have created this so far.
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Which of these three variations do you think looks best?
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I'm not seeing a lot of difference. 6, probably.
Why the change from blue?
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Your right, the background does look better blue.
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Conclave logo.
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Finished Version of Labyrinth Logo except for perhaps color. Should the grays be lighter and more metallic?
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Could be.
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Edit: I do not think it quite up to par on quality.
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For some reason the pupil on the eye of the labyrinth logo appear to be drifting towards the left even though it is centered in the eye. Is there an explaination and solution to this problem? It is most noticeable on the smaller versions of the logo but is present in larger versions as well.
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I think I have gotten the problem resolved.
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Hive.pcx in png form.
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I might need to scanline the main body of the logos more. Otherwise I think it is one of my better pieces.
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;b;
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Here are some interesting finished and unfinished tech images I created.
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Neat.
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I have recently been trying to find a color in the game palette to represent a bluish metal that is not also green.
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You want to try for a barely-blue; a good silvery metallic barely has any color.
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Okay. Morgan Logo 70x70. I choose a faded yellow because I did not want the pure yellow to overpower the rest of the logo. Also, I chose this yellow because it was brighter than than the gold color (higher saturation and hue). I chose a green for the connectors because it can represent Money (in the U.S.) and as a subtle complement to the yellow. I am not particularly happy with the scanlines on this so that may change before final release.
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... ;clenchedteeth with ;yang;
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Is there somewhere I can download this? The link in the second post just gives me a "404 - Attachment Not Found", but it seems very neat. I could do the faction mechanics myself, but the graphics by Dio seem really neat :)
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Oh, they totally are.
All the attachment from before the last year 1/2 are broken, because tech stuff; I imagine Dio will be by and re-attach in the next 24 hours - and I officially endorse the idea of people posting their custom factions in Downloads. ;nod
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Officially endorsed with a big Please on top.
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The last finished package I have is from almost two years ago. However I do have art from November that I can finish that would the alternate logos for the first file of each faction.
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Do post whatever you have - another reason to post; sometimes one loses files...
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I would love to see it - it was a lot of fun going through the thread and seeing your work evolve :)
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I mod some of the factions in my personal game. One thing I like to do with
the Believers is give them an aversion to wealth and a penalty for economy.
Spartans I changed to - planet.
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How does this particular outline for the largest of the Morganite Logo's appear? I am uncertain about this because the perspective is off center :-\.
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By one pixel? Make it one pixel narrower? I doubt I'd ever be able to see the difference.
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I want to work on the faction logos, but I need to stockpile energy in order to amass enough patience to manage the obnoxious nature of certain faction logos. I would also like to remind everyone that "The Watcher's Eye" from the Labyrinth/Hive continues to fascinate me for some reason.
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"The Watcher's Eye" is a powerful, archetypical, Big Brother is Watching You, image...
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"The Watcher's Eye" is a powerful, archetypical, Big Brother is Watching You, image...
I have seen many pictures of this concept. This particular version for some reason appeals to me because the logo shows it staring at the world from a hole.
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It's also a Sauron-evoking image. Like I said, archetypical.
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Welcome back, Dio. ;nod
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Hey, it's the original faction leader designs and all of the logos except for the UoP's (unless it was supposed to be Zakharov's floating head).
(https://i.imgur.com/W6C9pB3.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wmRCkAl.jpeg)
Source: portfolio of SMAC art director Michael Haire (https://www.coroflot.com/mhaire/Computer-Games)
He also posted a ton of AC icons.
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