Star Trek

[Tarvok]

This is how I like it. Don't express your hate for the New Trek, express your love for the Old Trek. I'm getting a nostalgia contact high off this, and I like it. I'm even considering switching from Crunchyroll to Hulu or Amazon Plus not only so I can complete my third watch-through of DS9, but also to see some TOS! (This, btw, was the purpose of my controversial tone: I wanted to stir things up.)

I think you maybe be right about Kirk-as-Womanizer being a myth. The ladies did, indeed, come to him, which is exactly the fantasy the viewers would prefer. I think people less familiar with the series tend to lump him in the same archetype as the likes of James Bond, who, yes, the ladies went to him, but you can bet he also went to the ladies.

And I do understand. The only thing I know both old and new of well enough to have a feel of how great the "old" was is the computer RPG series: The Elder Scrolls. For many, many years, I was pretty well convinced Bethsoft peaked with Daggerfall (buggy mess though it was). Years later, I thought they'd peaked with Morrowind, after I'd accepted it for what it was and stopped criticizing it for not being an upgrade of Daggerfall. Oblivion will forever be regarded as a wrong turn... but then, playing Skyrim, despite how completely they've severed ties with their old-style CRPG roots, I managed to catch a feeling I'd not had since Daggerfall.

Well, that and Thundercats. There are aspects of the old flavor I prefer from the original to the reboot... but I am willing to admit the writing is far superior (not to mention more consistent) for the reboot. I remember trying to re-watch the Thundercats on Cartoon Network one day. I don't even remember which episode it was... but it was bad. Very, very bad. Only a few episodes were good (specifically the pilot and the Trials, and maybe a few others I don't remember); the rest was the kind of cheap drivel cartoon hack shops put out regularly to keep toy sales up. The reboot, on the other hand, actually has some quality in terms of setting backstory and character development. It's a shame it failed commercially.

Dr. Who... I almost regret the fact that I can't appreciate the old series. But it's like trying to go back and play Chrono Trigger, which I missed when it was new because I was a Genesis guy. Intellectually, I can see the awesome. But the production values are just so substandard it's impossible for me to form an emotional attachment.

But, back to the thread topic. Um... great. This is what stands out to me:

Yeah, and the fat girls into a little boy-on-boy

See, this is why I went where I did. Always with the hostility. I get that the notion that there was any homoeroticism between Kirk and Spock is ridiculous... but do you really have to insult people over it? You claim your hostility is directed at B&B... but it's totally not.

[Green1]

Turvok, you are not the lone ranger. You must forgive the Uncle as he has bittervet™ syndrome when it comes to Star Trek. I often think Sisko's avatar is in place to simmer the Uncle's rage.

Old Trek was okay, but with the exception of a few rotten episodes in season 1, TNG, VOY, and DS9 were much better written and much more cerebral. Particularly DS9. God, what deep stories and character development!

The JJ Abrahms reboot of Trek was interesting, but JJ himself said he never got into Trek because of the cerebral writing. Hence, reboot Trek is all just action. Unfortunately, while it was cool, I do not think it is as true Trek as TNG.

But, BU is not alone either. I know folks IRL that go into RAGE when confronted with new trek. One of my friends bought her long time convention buddy and ex-boyfriend some collectable Abrahms movie glasses because he collected Trek memorabilia. He got angry and snapped at her and refused to take anything "not true Trek".

Star Wars has this too, to some extent with the prequels. I am sure we will see this with episode 7.

If you enjoy it, cool. If not, not.

As for Old Trek, I am still waiting on Cawley and gang over at Star Trek Phase II to complete 3 new old trek episodes. Many already out even have the original 1960s incidental music and are well produced. As they go on, the episodes look closer and closer to an actual 1960s episode with much better production values.

Then again, I am just a sucker for all sci-fi as long as it does not outright suck.

[Buster's Uncle]

ThunderCats?  Hmmm.  That probably makes you late 30s.  I do a mean Skeletor voice, but I was perversely watching HeMan as an adult.

I'm actually pretty catholic in my tastes - but slash revolts me, and I don't apologize to the 'horny old fat girls' for feeling a little hostile to their vision that so fundamentally doesn't agree with mine or the creators - but I do apologize for echoing David Gerold in the unnecessarily misogynistic phrasing.

We lost something hard to describe when Saturday pro wrestling shows moved from local gyms and they stopped using the promoter's relatives for cameramen.  We lost something when they started printing the comic books on good paper (something John Byrne said in an interview about 30 years ago).  We lost something when George Lucas got complete control of his creation and ditched talented collaborators.  We lost something when the Battlestar Galactica remake didn't stop with the mini-series, when they'd said what they had to say and while they were ahead.

(We lost something when Green showed up to pile on. )

Back in, I dunno, 1990 or so, I said while watching TNG: "I'm pretty sure I'd like this if they'd call it something else."  I just don't need the pain and aggravation of constantly being reminded of this thing I miss so much.

[Buster's Uncle]

About Doctor Who - if the Beebe would hire a good writer, good video editor and good sound mixer, there's a mint to be made going through all the intact stories of the old show and editing them down to the length the story wanted to be, sans the pointless/boring running around that didn't advance the plot and served only to pad that sucker out to 4-6 episodes when 2 would have done. 

It's something I've noticed time and again, even when watching the good ones with the 4th Doctor and Romanna - over half is always boring filler.  (Mylochka and I watched Castrovalva last night, which was deadly bad for the first half it took to even get to the eponymous locality, then suddenly became not-terrible once TristanDoctor hit town.) I'm not advocating something like Star Trek Remastered with fixing the special effects to so-so results.  You'd still be stuck with the old scripts, old performances, much of the old sets, and all the costumes.  But good stories and bad alike could all benefit from tighter pacing and getting to the good parts a lot faster.

The BBC could make a mint selling DVDs of the old show to the same fans all over again, and have something much more likely to appeal to new fans and curious fans of the current version.  This is something even you or I could do crudely on the computer with something like Windows Movie Maker, provided only the will, the patience, and some good story-telling skills - and I wish some fans would, in hopes of the right people at the beebe seeing it on YouTube and getting inspired.

I'd really like to see a Good Parts version of Castrovalva, you see...

[Unorthodox]

Rehash them into a movie ala Flash Gordon?  Could work. 

[Green1]

The last episode, Name of the Doctor was pretty cool. Oswin was superimposed into scenes from classic who.

Ending was pretty epic, too...

But, you are right, BU about old doctor who. It dragged. Everybody talks up Tom Baker (4th Doc), but really, the guy was way too passive. Most of those episodes were just things happening around him and the Doctor and whatever companion merely coping. Not taking charge.

Now, McCoy, the Seventh Doctor... He is a manipulative, scheming dude. His companion Ace, I will put up against Rose/10th doctor which is supposed to be the benchmark for companion/doctor interaction any day. Whats not to like about a tough 16 year old from the 80s in a jacket that just happens to like to blow things up?

Oh, BTW... I know its a Trek thread, but the season finale of Doctor Who if you missed it. Very epic these new shows.

doctor who S7 E13 the name of the doctor

[Buster's Uncle]

I'm no topic Nazi, and you know it; however, Who is worth its own thread, should the quantity of discussion or simple demand justify it.  Discuss and demand away here in the interim.

I should add that I think we lost pretty much nothing when they revived Doctor Who.  They brought it back smarter and infinitely better-paced in the hour-long done-in-one format, taking advantage of the traditional flexibility of the show, with its occasional change of lead and very frequent change of tone and style.  They didn't make the mistake of rebooting and respected what had come before exactly as much as the original - which wasn't, frankly, all that continuity-obsessed, mind you.

Trek was a show for adults that was revived, repeatedly, by people who didn't respect the original and tended to dumb it down; Who was a show made for children that was revived by people who respected the original, but smartened it up and made something for grown-ups*.   THAT's the way you do it.


*(But didn't take it so far away from its roots that it bore no resembence to its original, like Battlestar Galactica).

[Buster's Uncle]

Okay, this is a thing you have to be a certain age to appreciate why it's so strangely amusing.  Shaun Cassidy was the Justin Beiber of 1980, and try to imagine him releasing a song that's a tune from the Into Darkness score, set to words.

Shaun Cassidy: A Star Beyond Time

[Green1]

About Doctor Who - if the Beebe would hire a good writer, good video editor and good sound mixer, there's a mint to be made going through all the intact stories of the old show and editing them down to the length the story wanted to be, sans the pointless/boring running around that didn't advance the plot and served only to pad that sucker out to 4-6 episodes when 2 would have done. 

It's something I've noticed time and again, even when watching the good ones with the 4th Doctor and Romanna - over half is always boring filler.  (Mylochka and I watched Castrovalva last night, which was deadly bad for the first half it took to even get to the eponymous locality, then suddenly became not-terrible once TristanDoctor hit town.) I'm not advocating something like Star Trek Remastered with fixing the special effects to so-so results.  You'd still be stuck with the old scripts, old performances, much of the old sets, and all the costumes.  But good stories and bad alike could all benefit from tighter pacing and getting to the good parts a lot faster.

The BBC could make a mint selling DVDs of the old show to the same fans all over again, and have something much more likely to appeal to new fans and curious fans of the current version.  This is something even you or I could do crudely on the computer with something like Windows Movie Maker, provided only the will, the patience, and some good story-telling skills - and I wish some fans would, in hopes of the right people at the beebe seeing it on YouTube and getting inspired.

I'd really like to see a Good Parts version of Castrovalva, you see...

There has actually been someone on Youtube remastering Doctor Who episodes, but only from the Sylvester McCoy/ Ace/ Seventh Doctor era. These were the last episodes before Doctor Who got canceled. The era was known for very dark stories. The doctor would "use" his companions like some evil game of chess, often hurting their feelings to gain advantages over his many enemies. Ace already had a lot of emotional issues. The doctor sometimes I think made this worse.  Not going to derail by embedding one of those DW episodes, but search one of the classic episodes like "Curse of Fenric". he did a good job.

While I heard accolades for the BSG reboot, I never could bring myself to watch it. Something about Starbuck with breasts. Just...no... Please crap moar on my childhood.

And, yes BU.... Sean Cassidy will be in hell singing a duet with Justin Bieiber. Hopefully in a galaxy far, far away from any Trek or Wars.

[Buster's Uncle]

My knowledge of Who gets a bit scant during the Davis era and increasingly moreso afterward, but I've seen Curse of Fenric.  Still could be improved by a phantom edit for faster/tighter pacing.

You should sit through the original miniseries of the BSG revival - seriously, it WAS very good, notwithstanding all the neat/cheesy/fun crap they threw out.  I cannot recommend the ongoing TV series, however, and the miniseries requires a certain flexibility of mind for anyone who was seriously into the original.  It's a very different thing.

And you're right; their Starbuck WAS hard to take, and not nearly as pretty...

[Buster's Uncle]

STC-E01 "Pilgrim of Eternity"

[Buster's Uncle]

Okay - I've watched the above fan-produced episode, and I'm positively shocked at how well it came together.  I could go on for a very long time about where there's room for improvement, but the writing really has the feel as well as being as smart and well-structured as you could hope for from a fan production.

Their Kirk (Vic Mignola, the voice of Edward Elgar on Fullmetal Alchemist and the reason that I hereby dub this particular fan production Fullmetal Star Trek) is head and shoulders the best Kirk I've seen in a fan video.  Not wild about any of the rest of the cast, (even though Chris Doohan really sounds like Scotty and Grant Imanhara of Mythbusters does a credible Sulu voice) but a strong Kirk does a lot to carry a weak Spock (w/ a voice far too high - Spock without a deep voice doesn't scan as Spock, something even unlikeable SkylarSpock pulled off - these fan productions always cast fellows to young to pull off Spock successfully).  Unlike the boyish-seeming James Crawley of New Voyages, or the even younger chap who replaced him  for Phase II, Mignola is about the right age to be Kirk, which I think is a lot of why his reading of the part works so well.

Again, it's a fan video, and I'm cautioning you to go in with low expectations; but it IS surprisingly good, and I'm not just taking it easy on amateurs.  I Just plain liked it, and the redheaded girl is pretty hot.

Two thumbs up; Joe Bob says check it out.

[Tarvok]

I'm not sure I'm sufficiently immersed in TOS to judge it properly, but it is now in my "watch later" queue (too late tonight to start an hour episode). This best thing about this episode is that it shows that the chilling effect of an IP overprotective culture is finally wearing off. I remember when kids were getting "cease and desist" letters for putting up simple fansites. But fanfiction is often good enough that, given the chance to go to production (even low/no budget, talented amateur production) could result in considerable levels of awesome.

[Green1]

Okay - I've watched the above fan-produced episode, and I'm positively shocked at how well it came together.  I could go on for a very long time about where there's room for improvement, but the writing really has the feel as well as being as smart and well-structured as you could hope for from a fan production.

Their Kirk (Vic Mignola, the voice of Edward Elgar on Fullmetal Alchemist and the reason that I hereby dub this particular fan production Fullmetal Star Trek) is head and shoulders the best Kirk I've seen in a fan video.  Not wild about any of the rest of the cast, (even though Chris Doohan really sounds like Scotty and Grant Imanhara of Mythbusters does a credible Sulu voice) but a strong Kirk does a lot to carry a weak Spock (w/ a voice far too high - Spock without a deep voice doesn't scan as Spock, something even unlikeable SkylarSpock pulled off - these fan productions always cast fellows to young to pull off Spock successfully).  Unlike the boyish-seeming James Crawley of New Voyages, or the even younger chap who replaced him  for Phase II, Mignola is about the right age to be Kirk, which I think is a lot of why his reading of the part works so well.

Again, it's a fan video, and I'm cautioning you to go in with low expectations; but it IS surprisingly good, and I'm not just taking it easy on amateurs.  I Just plain liked it, and the redheaded girl is pretty hot.

Two thumbs up; Joe Bob says check it out.

The quality was on par with the 1960s. Not so sure I liked the introduction of TNG stuff like on board councilors or early holodeck. I prefered the "Phase 2" progression with actual Roddenbury suggested characters that they were going to use for Phase 2, not this. I agree that was one weak Spock. Strong Kirk, Sulu, and Scotty. Bringing back the guy that played Apollo from TOS was really cool. I love how actors are supporting these fan efforts.

[Tarvok]

The holodeck was one of two methods Star Trek writers used to put their characters into situations the setting did not otherwise provide for; the other was "parallel earths" or whatever they called them. Assuming that stories where you take characters and throw them into alternate settings are fun and a good idea, which method do you prefer?

Personally, I prefer the holodeck.