Default faction sets for SMAC in SMAX

[diessa]

Sigma, I was wondering if you were still active in this community. Welcome back! I'm glad that you've replied in this thread. Are you interested in further feedback? I'm content with replying to your thread. One thing in particular that I love about your factions are the leaders and the texts they write. They're well written and represent an international spread.

[ete]

@Buffed factions: Has some potential, but for it to be done really well each faction would have to be carefully looked at and upgraded, which is not a quick/easy project. Having "silent" buffs may end up confusing more players than we'd want though, and as kyrub says to give a notable advantage you need more advantages than those settings could provide. And I'm guessing that buffed defaults would get less use/add less than new custom factions (Jarl's is a readymade set which both adds the "really tough opponents" and new/well made factions if people want scary big factions). Overall, maybe (and worth making as a separate project perhaps), but I think we've got better options which are ready now (could potentially have tweaks, but they work fine).

@kyrub: We've got three menus to work with, so could add two packs of seven while keeping the default SMAC ones. Using one and leaving one blank is an option too, but other than download size there's not much disadvantage to putting two sets pre-loaded.

And I'm happy to thoroughly look over Sigma's current versions for balance stuff+make tweaks if they're wanted, which seems moderately likely (likely toning down Genearchs a bit as main goal, look closely at a couple of others)? Comments and input from others would of course be welcome. Jarl's still active and would probably be very happy to have comments and suggestions about his factions in his thread, same goes for Dio.

[Buster's Uncle]

I think the key question the vanilla-only fans need to decide on re: pre-installed faction sets is: how different are we comfortable with?  Given the whole point of the project, what would suit us best?

I would say variety brings freshness to an old game -the very reason I took an interest in custom factions and making them in the first place- but then, I'm not the target audience for this mod, so my opinion doesn't matter/count.

Leaving everything beyond the original seven set blank would have the advantage of making the random faction function useable for those as don't want anything but the original seven...

[Nexii]

Of course if aquatic is too weak in SMAC, you have a lot of options to mod:
- increase default sea resources or sea terraforming resources
- increase their bonuses relative to land factions
- decrease foil/cruiser chassis cost
- eliminate N penalty for mine (helps sea more than land, IMO)
- enable sea terraform options like Borehole
- increase sea movement speeds

I wonder - would it be possible to have random select be without replacement (i.e. can't get duplicate faction)?  That and/or being able to select which factions could be randomly taken out of the whole pool?  Perhaps this is a bit much, I'm not sure.

[kyrub]

Re: How much different
I like faction variety quite a lot and I share your view on freshening the game. (For me, it is the alien theme that has gone wrong in SMAX plus mediocre new stuff elsewhere.). On the other hand, offering factions in an official release of our hybrid requires more careful approach, since you can easily alienate a player with many extravagant or extreme options (my own experience with big mods in other games).

@ete
Ah, good to know. 2 sets are much better than one.
There are more candidates, I just picked those that got a primary vote. Jarl's package is obviously well crafted. I think those 3 could be well included in the download, not so sure about putting there more, but that can be decided later.

[Buster's Uncle]

Well kyrub, unless more SMAC-only fans pop up, it seems to me like the decision about including factions ought to be up to you and diessa...  Am I missing anyone?

[ete]

A mockup of how the factions area of alphax could look (with a basic guide to using custom factions)

Code: [Select]

; These are the default 7 factions
#FACTIONS
GAIANS,   GAIANS
HIVE,     HIVE
UNIV,     UNIV
MORGAN,   MORGAN
SPARTANS, SPARTANS
BELIEVE,  BELIEVE
PEACE,    PEACE

; ***Using custom factions***
;
; To make a faction available from the faction select menu simply copy the appropriate faction text name from the below lists into
; either #NEWFACTIONS or #CUSTOMFACTIONS and remove the preceding "; ".
; Note that each menu can only contain up to 8 factions at one time.
;
; For a detailed database of all custom factions visit the AC2 Wiki: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Factions)
; For over 150 more factions please download the ultimate faction pack: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=4221.0
; To talk to the creators or get feedback on your factions visit the AC2 modding forum: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?board=13.0
;
; **Available custom factions**
;
; *SMAX factions*
;
; CYBORG
; PIRATES
; DRONE
; ANGELS
; FUNGBOY
; CARETAKE
; USURPER
;
; *Sigma's factionpack*
;
; technos
; ect
;
;
;
;
; *JarlWolf's factionpack*
; crimson
; ect
;
;
; *Dio's factionpack*
;
;
;
;
;
; *Other factions*
; fixarians
;
;


#NEWFACTIONS
technos
more
more
more

#CUSTOMFACTIONS
crimson
more
more
more

Old one for reference:

(click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

#FACTIONS
GAIANS,   GAIANS
HIVE,     HIVE
UNIV,     UNIV
MORGAN,   MORGAN
SPARTANS, SPARTANS
BELIEVE,  BELIEVE
PEACE,    PEACE

;
; First item is file name, second item is search key.
; These should always be the same except for debugging purposes.
;
#NEWFACTIONS
CYBORG,   CYBORG
PIRATES,  PIRATES
DRONE,    DRONE
ANGELS,   ANGELS
FUNGBOY,  FUNGBOY
CARETAKE, CARETAKE
USURPER,  USURPER

;
; These are factions you want included in the startup list.
; These may also be chosen when a random faction is selected.
; First item is file name, second item is search key.
; These should always be the same except for debugging purposes.
;
#CUSTOMFACTIONS



You see how with this setup it's actually kinda easier to see how to add new factions if there are some defaults showing you how to input them?

[DrazharLn]

If people use one or other of the mod managers, there's no reason why we can't ship multiple faction packs.

The only issue at the moment is that both mod managers work by completely replacing any changed file, which is nice enough, but not ideal for something like a faction pack where you only want to change the pre-selected factions.

I think Ford is working on this, though. (I have no idea if he's ok with being called Ford rather than Ford Prefect)

[Buster's Uncle]

I was asked about Geo's aquatic version faction set - I ended up having to search through my own collection of factions and zip them up.  http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=198  -For them as wants to check them out, or even play with them.  It's all but the aliens and Sven.

[DrazharLn]

Thanks, BUncle.

[ete]

If people use one or other of the mod managers, there's no reason why we can't ship multiple faction packs.

The only issue at the moment is that both mod managers work by completely replacing any changed file, which is nice enough, but not ideal for something like a faction pack where you only want to change the pre-selected factions.

I think Ford is working on this, though. (I have no idea if he's ok with being called Ford rather than Ford Prefect)

alphax provides a pretty easy way to swap custom factions and faction packs around. Mod manegers are needed for mods which change a bunch of text files and the .exe, but perhaps not necessary for this? The main cost to extra factions is download size, which is hard to mitigate and significant beyond a relatively small number of faction packs, which is why I think we should include no more than three faction packs (21 factions) in the default set, and point people towards the big collection of 150+ factions (which includes geo's, BU's and a lot of others) if they want more.

[Buster's Uncle]

Agreed.  A taste only, if the SMAC-only types like.

[kyrub]

I really don't think my vote should constitute 50% of decision force. I never played any of these packs. Take it with a pint of salt. On the other hand, this is quite simple to change later, based on user's reactions. So let's not pretend it's so important.

My choice for best fitting basic arrangement in hybrid SMAC would be:
Aquatic pack of 7 original factions, with different graphics and a slightly modified Sigma's factions pack.
This combination seems strongest to me in several ways. First, it brings one of the best feature of SMAX, e.g. the aquatic setup, in play. Aquatic is the feature I always miss when I play SMAC and I wished to try my nous on its AI. Second, it combines traditional and innovative in a nice way, so every user may find what he likes. Traditional comes in flavour of completely same, albeit aquatic factions. Innovative is offered with new Sigma's factions with interesting and settled lore, flavoured texts and new SE agendas. Third, the combination of more aquatic and land based factions offers large potential for different setups (like 4 factions land-based, 3 aquatic, or 1 versus 6 etc.), which seems great for variety of play. While aquatic may be less powerful than original SMAX, it will be either played by all factions, either the player chooses it for different game scenarios, or to weaken his own starting position. All of these variants seem very interesting and I'd like to play them, maybe with some of Yitzi's options on top.

My tied second choice are Dio's alternate pack or BU's Alternate graphic pack (unsurpassed in genre). Though I admit my eyes are too much fixed on the first combination as an ideal, not because of greater quality, but for the "best fit".

Well, that is my uninformed opinion. Dixi.

[JarlWolf]

Yes; I am fairly active enough in community and would be fine answering questions/providing help when or where needed-

Though I really do need to kick up on a few projects and catch up on them... Will have to do over the next little while.

[Sigma]

Sigma, I was wondering if you were still active in this community. Welcome back! I'm glad that you've replied in this thread. Are you interested in further feedback? I'm content with replying to your thread. One thing in particular that I love about your factions are the leaders and the texts they write. They're well written and represent an international spread.

Please feel free to dredge up my old faction thread. I'd be very interested in a discussion on how to improve their performance and balance.