SMAC within SMAX

[Buster's Uncle]

We have an IRC channel dealy under the Chat button at the top of the page for live conversation, if needed.  Naturally, I think the more done in public posts right here, the better...  I could set up a special category in Downloads for file sharing, if that's workable...

[Yitzi]

Edit: I'm in the process of writing a specifications document. Yitzi, it'll have a detailed list of what we discussed so far.

You're right, kyrub. This idea is moving more quickly than I anticipated, so I'm encouraged by it. I'm uninitiated and unskilled as a moder, but I can probably do the easier tasks after some reading. My sense from this thread is that there are already people who have done or are doing the things we have brought up.

I don't think it's being worked on yet, but it's on the list.

Perhaps we could set up a set of files on Dropbox (or a similar service). We could set up a specifications document and list of ongoing work/delegated work in a Google Doc (or similar service). That, plus forum posts and, if people want, some instant messaging services, would probably be sufficient?

Whatever you set up, I can probably use.

However, file sharing won't help that much in terms of combining mods, as what would need sharing would not be files but rather the modded bitcode (or disassembled form if it's short enough, as is the case for most bugfixes) of the procedure or part of a procedure...and that tends to be short enough to be sent via PM.

[Buster's Uncle]

ete will probably suggest a working master list on the AC Wiki, if he comes back soon - and I sense he will.

[diessa]

A wiki article would be a good candidate. However, it may be more cumbersome to update than something like a Google Doc.  For now, I drafted some specifications on one of my Google Accounts. You can see it here.

[ete]

You know me too well BU . Though anywhere that yitzi+kryub can both edit and others can comment on would be fine.

Anyway, some proposed concrete steps:
1. Collect (or locate) a comprehensive list of changes between SMAC and SMAX
2. Organize them into categories, I'm thinking Settings changes (everything changeable by just text or image files), Code changes (everything that needs .exe coding), and Acceptable changes (changes which are agreed upon as purely positive, such as bug fixes). kryub is worried about not having close enough replication, so I'd be happy for him to have to personally approve any item on the acceptable changes list.
3. Once we have the list and a rough idea of what needs changing to turn SMAX into SMAC, figure out how granular we want to make the reversion (how many control alphax variables to add). Also (at the same time or before) decide how granular the AI changes should be (figure out how many of the changes are best made optional with alphax and how to group them, since yitzi has concerns about some weakening the AI in modded games which would be best made optional). I'd guess there's quite a lot of debate to have at this stage.
4. Build the thing.
5. Celebrate!
6. Have everyone working on one patch and everything nice and compatible, so we all get lots of shiny toys to play with (SMACers get bugfixes and lots more modding options, SMAXers get an awesome new updated AI).

Edit: To expand on build it: the alphax side is probably simple enough, the coding side depends on how many things need changing for it to feel right which we'll know when we have a list. At that point you guys will know much better how hard the different changes will be to implement and figure out how to organize that side.

[Buster's Uncle]

I have Buncle powers, and can call nerdz from the vasty tubes. 

ete's a great organizer - I suggest listening to him...

[diessa]

Good suggestions, ete. I like the process that you outlined.

I started that process informally in the specifications document. I looked at the broader changes. I also confirmed the landmarks and supply pod topics, so the list of those is accurate. So, in terms of organizing, what system do you want to use? There are plenty of options out there, so we can use one that is comfortable to a group of you. Everything in the design document can be copied elsewhere easily.

[Yitzi]

since yitzi has concerns about some weakening the AI in modded games which would be best made optional

Alternatively, they could be taught to read the modding, and adjust strategies accordingly.  I think they already do this for many of the designer-made modding options.

[diessa]

We have an IRC channel dealy under the Chat button at the top of the page for live conversation, if needed.  Naturally, I think the more done in public posts right here, the better...  I could set up a special category in Downloads for file sharing, if that's workable...

I support discussions and contributions being public. However, forum threads can be cumbersome, and the longer they get, the more difficult they are to engage with for someone new. My focus with any community projects I get involved with is making sure that cohesiveness can be maintained while being inclusive. A possible combination could be AC2 wiki, site-based chat, forum threads, and a downloads section sub-category could work.

[Buster's Uncle]

It would definitely be good for the project if everyone was kept well-informed here on the forum.  This idea is obviously of interest to everyone, and you never know what useful skillset will wander by at any stage.

[diessa]

Absolutely. I'm cautious about the mediums we use to communicate is because I want people to transition into the project easily. Trying to discern a project from forum threads, due to lack of a good sticky–at minimum, is a bad standard in the mod communities of so many games. I don't know anyone here, so I'm interested in casting the net wide for talent. I agree with you, BUncle, that there seems to be plenty of tools within this website.

[Ford_Prefect]

Gah... Just wasted an hour until I figured out what was wrong.
Tried launching SMAC/X from a java app and it kept on failing.  Finally figured out that I needed to set the working directory to the SMAC folder. grrrrr....

Ok.  For the mod launcher what behavior do you guys want it to have?
Currently, I'm thinking of making it really simple.

I'll have it create a mods folder
Inside the mods folders there will be folders for mods
The launcher will have a copy of unaltered SMAC/SMAX files located in a "backup" folder.
Each time you launch, the launcher will see if the files in the smac directory is the same as in the mods folder/s the player has chosen.  If not, it will copy the files that are different and then launch the game.

Do you guys see any flaws with this idea?

[Ford_Prefect]

A SMAC for SMAX mod would of course be made in the mods folder. :-D

[Buster's Uncle]

Stickied thread is easy enough - just ask when you're ready.  A big multi-person project might well need a dedicated subforum, (at least for the duration) which I could do in minutes.  No sweat.

[Yitzi]

Gah... Just wasted an hour until I figured out what was wrong.
Tried launching SMAC/X from a java app and it kept on failing.  Finally figured out that I needed to set the working directory to the SMAC folder. grrrrr....

Ok.  For the mod launcher what behavior do you guys want it to have?
Currently, I'm thinking of making it really simple.

I'll have it create a mods folder
Inside the mods folders there will be folders for mods
The launcher will have a copy of unaltered SMAC/SMAX files located in a "backup" folder.
Each time you launch, the launcher will see if the files in the smac directory is the same as in the mods folder/s the player has chosen.  If not, it will copy the files that are different and then launch the game.

Do you guys see any flaws with this idea?

Make sure you remember to copy back afterward.  Also, if not, it should copy the current to the "backup", so that it doesn't lose any changes that have been made to the default.