Any tricks up your sleeve?

[Kirov]

Does anyone remember how it really works when you try to raise/lower somebody else's terrain? Because I'm sure that you not only risk Vendetta (which is rarely a real danger), but also sometimes the cost may be in thousands as opposed to 4/8/16. At least that's what I can vaguely recall...

[Buster's Uncle]

I can't speak to the cost issue, but that about triggering vendetta is true.  Interestingly, (perhaps buggily, because it makes no sense,) you cannot raise land next to the border, even if it would not raise any on the other side, but you can lower, provided it causes no lowering over the border.

I posted screenies illustrating this in a Bug/Patch thread about an exploit workaround.  I bet I can find the thread and add the link here before the edit notice time limit is up.

A bug report: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3298.0  brb

The exploit thread with many screenies (that may not illustrate this precise point...) http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3256.0

[ete]

Also, another tip to preserve your integrity while starting wars: Just piss off the target so much they come after you. Like asking for technology or otherwise.

Yea, I used to do that all the time. Usually I demand they give me a base or I'll crush them like a bug, and if that does not work demand they withdraw (right click their name on the comm, you can demand withdrawal even if they won't talk) after switching to a social setting they hate (switching back after for a refund).

Still, not so useful in MP.

And that land raising trick is.. quite brilliant.

Also, the cost of land raising is tied to distance from your nearest base (closer=better) and current height of the land (lower=better), though there may be other factors. It seems to increase extremely fast as you get further from your bases, resulting in some insane figures for land raising.

[Buster's Uncle]

But by the time I have the formers and infrastructure already established to do cute elevation tricks, I'm so rich I don't care about the cost.

[Kirov]

Yep, I think ete is right and the cost is just related to the distance (doubles every tile) and height, regardless of its impact on other factions. Sea terraforming always seems to cost more, whether raising or lowering.

As for the trick described by BU - it looks like and probably is an exploit, right? Meaning a self-respecting MP player is not supposed to do that, is he?

Making AI pissed - with most factions it's usually enough to demand withdrawal, even when they have absolutely no units in your area (I think it works even with sunspot activity in place). Don't even need to switch SE, although my regular Demo/FM/Wealth is hated by most factions, anyway. And if this doesn't work - probing gets the job done like 99% of the time. Sometimes the AI would let me go with a warning, saying something like "I don't condone industrial sabotage". I'd love to know the trigger to this event, whether it is strength disparity or something else. Still, usually you end up with a vendetta.

[Buster's Uncle]

I consider myself the expert in SP cheating, and I do consider the raising trick an exploit.  Double plus ungood against people, IMAO.  (On the other hand, allow it, and let human players declare vendetta where the AI won't.  Carries its own punishment.)  Bring it up in the Academy to get MP expert opinion?

[Kirov]

I'm in two minds. I dislike tricks and exploits which circumvent a rule specifically and explicitly put there by the designers. On the other hand, almost always I use the FM trick when you build a base and keep it at pop1. I've used it for soo long, it's just a part of the game right now. But hitting rogue worms with busters is a huge no-no for me.

Still, I think I'm against banning such things. I'm just not going to use this raising exploit.

[Buster's Uncle]

I think definitely consult your colleagues - t doesn't look in here much.

I consider it an exploit, not quite a cheat, because the designers almost certainly would have wanted the AI to get mad at the raising stunt if they'd thought of it, but they did not, and it's not that major a trick, being mostly fun for those who like terraforming and/or messing with allies while maintaining reputation.  It's rarely even as potent as the release into the wild trick where you do it in hope the worm attacks the adjacent base, not to nuke it.

Sometimes an ally plants a base right on the border and screws up one of yours real bad?  I always worm the heck out of those if it's the stage of the game I can waste time making a million worms.

[gwillybj]

Wow! I stuck that Water Rights thing in here mostly for titters and yuks, and it turns into a point for discussion! I don't use it all the time; it's a boredom-killer when there's little else to do. Have fun with it!

[Yitzi]

I use artillery extensively actually, I typically pack them on rovers. Rovers with armour, artillery can sit back, bombard a base and if attacked are fairly defendable, but can still withdraw if need be. And they can damage whole stacks of units so much they provide easy pickings for my other forces.

Isn't armored rover artillery ridiculously expensive, though?

I consider myself the expert in SP cheating

Speaking of which: Once you have the production, you can use pre-made supply crawlers to build a SP the turn after you get the prerequisite tech, even if you have no other projects that you can build at the moment to switch from.

[Buster's Uncle]

Is cashing in crawlers even an exploit, though?

[Yitzi]

Is cashing in crawlers even an exploit, though?

Depends.

If you use them to build projects somewhat faster, I don't think it's an exploit; that's part of what they're for.
If you use them to focus your entire empire on a single project, I'd argue that that's heavily imbalanced (as it heavily weakens one of the major downsides of building a project, i.e. that it takes a high-production base out for a substantial period of time), but still not really an exploit.
If you use them to crawl minerals until you have enough to finish the project, I'd say that's more questionable.
If you build them for a project before you are able to start work on that project, I would consider that an exploit.
And if you upgrade them to reduce the hurry cost of projects, I'd consider that to definitely be an exploit.

[Geo]

And if you upgrade them to reduce the hurry cost of projects, I'd consider that to definitely be an exploit.

You know, if it wasn't possible anymore to put armor on civilian 'weapon' types...

[Buster's Uncle]

Is the upgrade stunt a cheaper way than cashing in what crawlers are on hand as-is and then rushing?

[Geo]

AFAIK, it is. Put as strong a shield and costly abilities you can on a crawler, and you should be golden.