Any tricks up your sleeve?

[ete]

Is the upgrade stunt a cheaper way than cashing in what crawlers are on hand as-is and then rushing?

Vastly cheaper, especially early on where rush buying is extremely expensive.

[Buster's Uncle]

Obviously King Cheater has NOT done a lot of work in crawler cashing - but I AM the discoverer and AFAIK lone practitioner of the Time Warp, despite having announced it over 4 years ago (I couldn't convince Petek it was a thing)...

[Kirov]

You need to pay 4 EC for each mineral rushed for an SP (as opposed to the normal 2 EC/min price). The price of upgrading probably varies, but still the saving is massive.

Crawler upgrading looks like a workaround for me and hence I never use it and always ban it in my games. But all the other features are there by design. You can always start to build a new thing right after you discover the relevant tech, and you can always disband your units to get this thing on the next turn - it's just that crawlers contribute their full price to the SP and this makes especially useful.

So basically everything is fine, if crawlers are OP it's for their mining ability, low cost and no maintenance. I believe the designers just did not betatest it thoroughly - they should have given the game to die-hard Civ players to figure it out immediately.

[Yitzi]

And if you upgrade them to reduce the hurry cost of projects, I'd consider that to definitely be an exploit.

You know, if it wasn't possible anymore to put armor on civilian 'weapon' types...

Sometimes you want armored formers, though, and it still wouldn't help with upgrading the crawlers to clean.  I'd rather change the upgrade cost formula to make that tactic, as well as the similarly exploit-like IMO tactic of building cheap units and upgrading instead of hurrying units, ineffective, or if necessary simply ban it.

[Kirov]

Sometimes you want armored formers, though, and it still wouldn't help with upgrading the crawlers to clean.  I'd rather change the upgrade cost formula to make that tactic, as well as the similarly exploit-like IMO tactic of building cheap units and upgrading instead of hurrying units, ineffective, or if necessary simply ban it.

Indeed, I ban upgrading crawlers in my games, but I miss the option to put armour on crawlers in field for tactical reasons, not for SP.

[Yitzi]

Sometimes you want armored formers, though, and it still wouldn't help with upgrading the crawlers to clean.  I'd rather change the upgrade cost formula to make that tactic, as well as the similarly exploit-like IMO tactic of building cheap units and upgrading instead of hurrying units, ineffective, or if necessary simply ban it.

Indeed, I ban upgrading crawlers in my games, but I miss the option to put armour on crawlers in field for tactical reasons, not for SP.

That's not so hard...De-ban upgrading crawlers, but make a rule that once a crawler is upgraded it cannot be cashed in for SP.

Alternatively, you could use my patch to tweak the upgrade cost formula in a way that makes crawler upgrading no longer cost-efficient, though that will of course have numerous other ramifications as well (which you might or might not want) because it affects all upgrade costs.

[Kirov]

Another idea (never used that actually): if some AI can be a valuable ally, construct a throw-away sea base and give it to such AI (you can do it for free). The base is useless, but the boost to relations is really huge and you can easily make your new friend do what you want - vote in the Council, attack other players - and later probe it if need be.

[Kirov]

That's not so hard...De-ban upgrading crawlers, but make a rule that once a crawler is upgraded it cannot be cashed in for SP.

I don't know why actually, but it never caught on as a widely accepted rule. Maybe because it would be hard to monitor for anti-cheat purposes. And this is not an issue that is of any concern to me. Should suggest it next time.

[Yitzi]

Maybe because it would be hard to monitor for anti-cheat purposes.

Even a simple ban on upgrading is probably unfeasible to monitor, though.

[Geo]

Maybe because it would be hard to monitor for anti-cheat purposes.

Even a simple ban on upgrading is probably unfeasible to monitor, though.

I thought once infiltration is achieved, the unit list (F4?) shows you all unit types of a faction in existence.

[Kirov]

It's F7 and yes, any unit you've created at any moment, even through sheer upgrades, stays there.

[Yitzi]

Maybe because it would be hard to monitor for anti-cheat purposes.

Even a simple ban on upgrading is probably unfeasible to monitor, though.

I thought once infiltration is achieved, the unit list (F4?) shows you all unit types of a faction in existence.

Yes, it shows you the names of each type.

A smart cheater will name his upgraded crawlers in a way that makes it not at all obvious that they are crawlers; I'm also not sure if there's a way to upgrade right before cashing them in so they are never "in existence" on the other player's turn.

[Kirov]

Oh, that wouldn't be a cheater that smart. People would notice in a moment and you have much more subtle ways of cheating if you're really up to it.

I tested it and the moment you upgrade, the relevant design goes into your F7 and stays there until the end of the game.

[Droom]

Not really trick, though beginners might find this tip useful. Early in the game, when I first meet a faction, I make a special note of their council votes. This gives me a good idea of their population and number of bases.

[Geo]

I tested it and the moment you upgrade, the relevant design goes into your F7 and stays there until the end of the game.

But I suppose its not conclusive. I mean, the unit could be created the hard way, in the build list of a base.