Valjiir

[Buster's Uncle]

Consider this: Vulcan is supposed to have high gravity and thin air.  It was obviously a hot desert-y place at the point where Spock's wedding was staged, tending validate a number of assertions about Vulcan.

And yet: fight scenes on Vulcan in Amok Time didn't look sped up at all.  Remember how astronauts on the moon looked like they were in slow motion when they moved?  The opposite ought to apply if the gravity was enough higher than one G.  And not just Kirk, but the older and less in-shape McCoy were never out of breath walking around and engaging in moderate activity.

Spock passed out before Kirk when Khan cut off the air in Space Seed.  McCoy succumbed to the cold before Spock -who not only is from a much warmer place and would complain of ship's temperature in The Deadly Years, but is also taller and thinner.  I imagine that both cases had to do with Spock's control of his body; he quickly put himself in a trance in hope of fooling Khan, and although he was still going to freeze to death before McCoy, he could delay unconsciousness in hope of finding shelter or whatever.

And the bright sun of Vulcan is no joke, given Operation: Annihilate! and the inner eyelid.

Now, there is no denying that Spock is strong, far stronger than he looks.  Guards fly 10 feet at a shove and fall unconscious.  Viewscreens and metal furniture crumple before his wrath.  (And incidentally, he fights like he's never been in a fight before, but that's one of those things we have to not think about - so does Kirk.  The fight choreography was bad on that show.)  Consider the nerve pinch, which Kirk cannot learn (A Piece of the Action or Patterns of Force - it was a backlot episode, but I'm not sure which), which I would guess is an application of mind touch more than pressure point manipulation, else all those armed guards he merely shoved various times ought to have been scrambling to their feet with hurt shoulders and their guns out.  They never even hit their heads falling.


And I have a theory related to all this - it's all Vulcan kung fu/Surakian mental superpowers, including almost all of the super-strength.  Vulcan surface gravity can't be any more than 10-15% higher than Earth, and the air not that much thinner than the mountain town I went to college in, or we'd have seen visible effects on Kirk and McCoy, which we really didn't.

It is established fact that Spock is skilled in Vulcan kung fu (Journey to Babel) all sorts of Surakian mental discipline (more than half of all episodes) and his body is much more dependent on that wonderful brain than a pure human (Spock's Brain).

Not a lot of implications of that occur to me, except that it gives him more credit than the show did for his superpowers...  Thoughts?

[FoldInTheWolf]

BUncle, I agree, the things that Spock does that he shouldn't be able to do are due to his impressive Vulcan physiology and mental discipline.

Kirk and McCoy being unimpeded in Amok Time are due to the limitations of 1960s television in being able to have accurate special effects and in poor script writing. (One of my Valjiir stories, "The Last Time I Saw Richard", has a human -- Jade Han -- spending some time on Vulcan, and it deals with the thin air and high gravity much more realistically.)

Similarly, Spock passing out before Kick in Space Seed was due to 1960s conventions regarding televised storytelling, and Shatner's ego (he would never allow Kirk to be anything less than every episode's hero). 

[Buster's Uncle]

Bringing the real world into it is no fun.   

[Valjiir1]

Jaime Pressly as Ruth?

I don't know who that is.

[Valjiir1]

I think AJ could play Loki Monelem

Naw, she's not puckish enough.  Now go back some 40 years and Olivia Hussy could easily play Jilla.  Michelle Yeoh for Jade.  A young Annie Potts for Daffy.  Young Benjamin Bratt or Jimmy Smits for Ramon Ordona.  My original vision of Jeremy Paget was Tim Reid (Venus Flytrap from WKRP in Cincinnati) but for a modern actor, Mahershala Ali (Remy Denton from House of Cards[/I]) would do well.  Del and Ruth are tough to cast because who in real life is that beautiful?   

Anyone else have any suggestions?

[Buster's Uncle]

Jaime Pressly:







Mostly does comedy.

[Valjiir1]

There's some potential there, but her face is too round.  And of course, her eyes are too small - but then we won't get a Human actress with eyes big enough 

[Buster's Uncle]

Y'know, I was thinking in terms of how Jiila and Ruth are, visually, day and night.  Part of the trick in the casting game is to figure out how much a physical likeness is important to how the character is perceived - in the case of the girls, I think their physicality is an essential part.

In the case of say, Kirk, not so much; a decent-looking white leading man will do, provided he can get the personality traits across.  You want to cast for the essence of a character, and sometimes you want to emphasize some traits at the expense of others.  And all too frequently, an exact likeness just isn't possible, but getting the essence is.

Jaime Pressly and Angelina Jolie wouldn't be horrible physical representations of Ruth and Jiila, though I'd venture a thinner lady would get closer on the latter...

Pressly is aces at playing difficult, pushy, funny women...

[Valjiir1]

Y'know, I was thinking in terms of how Jiila and Ruth are, visually, day and night.  Part of the trick in the casting game is to figure out how much a physical likeness is important to how the character is perceived - in the case of the girls, I think their physicality is an essential part.

I completely agree.

In the case of say, Kirk, not so much; a decent-looking white leading man will do, provided he can get the personality traits across.

Yep, just the right amounts of charm, arrogance, strength, intelligence, and vulnerability - plus he NEEDS a boyish grin.

Jaime Pressly and Angelina Jolie wouldn't be horrible physical representations of Ruth and Jiila, though I'd venture a thinner lady would get closer on the latter...

Hmmm - I think if Angelina Jolie was shorter - and more buxom... her face has the right poutiness, but maybe a little too sultry for Jilla.  Now with shorter hair, and the same physical attributes as Jilla, she could make for a very passable Calaya Wheal (the future Mrs. DelMonde)

[Valjiir1]

I know Mylochka is having a rough patch here, but seeing as how she helped create the CGI characters, maybe she could give her opinion here? (Pretty please with certain people on top? Or on the bottom?  Or however she'd like them?  )

[Buster's Uncle]

She has been so nagged.

[Buster's Uncle]

Mylochka thinks this shot of Pressly is especially Ruth-looking:



I will nag her to actually post for herself more later.

[Buster's Uncle]

A young Annie Potts.

Yowsa.  If I ever meet Annie Potts, I plan to say "I loved you in Corvette Summer".

Del and Ruth are tough to cast because who in real life is that beautiful? 

Johnny Depp.  Proximate resemblance, very pretty, and the part calls for someone who can do both comedy and perform the serious mood swings.  He's a real actor.

[Buster's Uncle]

In the case of say, Kirk, not so much; a decent-looking white leading man will do, provided he can get the personality traits across.

Yep, just the right amounts of charm, arrogance, strength, intelligence, and vulnerability - plus he NEEDS a boyish grin.

I think much of the difference in success in James Crawley and Vic Mignogna's respective portrayals of Kirk have to do with age.  Mignogna is 51, I think, and beginning to lose his looks.  Crawley looks 25.  Shatner was in his mid-30s, much younger than Mignogna is now, but loosing his looks - witness how much prettier he was on The Twilight Zone. 

Crawley never got over with me, and Mignogna did almost instantly.  I think something about being an aging pretty-boy deeply informs a good Kirk performance.

[Valjiir1]

That pix of JP IS a good fit for Ruthie!

And (face palm!) WHY didn't I think of Johnny Depp!!!!!!  You're SPOT ON, friend!