Bugs, flaws, and other things to be fixed: Drones formula

[Yitzi]

There are a number of things in the drone calculation formula that can use improvement.  This is the thread for discussing them; I'll start with all the things I've noted and proposed fixes.
Each fix is marked as either mandatory (for things that I think are clearly bugs, and should therefore be changed), or optional (for things that are not bugs, but still could use improvement, and therefore will be made into an option through alphax.txt.)
I'm not counting things related to what units produce pacifism drones, as that's really a different calculation.

I'm posting because I want input (either more problems, or fixes that should be made optional or split into two), so anyone who wants to provide input is welcome.

1. At higher difficulty levels, conquest drones and University drones are next to irrelevant, as the total drones before bureaucracy is capped at population.  With several specialists, even Lal's talents become irrelevant likewise.

Proposed fix (optional): The total drones before bureaucracy will not be capped at population; any extras just become superdrones.

2. When determining whether to cancel talents with drones, superdrones are counted twice (once under "drones", once under "superdrones").  There is really no need for this (as the purpose of said cancellation seems to be so that there are enough nonspecialists to become drones and talents.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Don't count them twice.

3. If more than half the citizens are specialists (unavoidable for bases size 41 or above), it is impossible to have a golden age.  Furthermore, after everyone becomes a drone/superdrone any extras are lost.

Proposed fix (optional): Extra talents and superdrones won't show on the base screen, but will still be present in terms of effect.  Extra drones due to specialists will produce superdrones.

4. The Planetary Transit System counts as a facility rather than a Secret Project.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Count it as a Secret Project.

5. Facilities, police, and secret projects quell superdrones just as well as normal drones.  (Thanks to ete for pointing this out.)  Furthermore, facilities do not quell pacifism drones.  (Thanks to Petek for pointing this out.)

Proposed fix (optional; may be split into two if such is requested): Change these so facilities/police/projects have to first turn superdrones into normal drones before turning them into workers, and facilities do work against pacifism drones.  (Note that this does not make pacifism drones anywhere near irrelevant, as you'll need your facilities for normal drones anyway.)

6. There can be "ghost drones" that show up in the main base screen but not on the psych screen and do not contribute to base riots.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Make them not show up on the main base screen.

7. When finding police units, the Self-Aware Colony (which does not have non-lethal methods) counts before units which have non-lethal methods, so the project can actually reduce the effectiveness of police.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Make it not reduce the effectiveness of police.

8. -1 POLICE is negligible if you're trying to avoid atrocities anyway.  Furthermore, it doesn't make sense that punishment spheres should work when nerve stapling doesn't, and thirdly punishment spheres make it too easy to avoid the drones of Free Market.

Proposed fix (optional): When you have a negative POLICE rating, punishment spheres do not work, and neither does the non-lethal methods ability.

So...any feedback?

[Geo]

This is a bit above my game grade, but here goes.

On 4, what difference does it make for the game that a secret project is counted as a facility?

On 8, I could agree on non-lethal methods not working, but I'd let the 'music of the spheres' continue to spread fear throughout the populace. The facilities are there as a threat, while stapling just dulls the drones.

[Yitzi]

This is a bit above my game grade, but here goes.

On 4, what difference does it make for the game that a secret project is counted as a facility?

Projects are applied after police/pacifism, whereas facilities are applied before.  Also, it means it shows up in a different place on the psych breakdown screen.

On 8, I could agree on non-lethal methods not working, but I'd let the 'music of the spheres' continue to spread fear throughout the populace. The facilities are there as a threat, while stapling just dulls the drones.

When you have negative POLICE, that generally means the people won't let you spread as much fear.  Examples are the Gaians (hippies), Angels (anarchists), and if you're running something that normally prevents the use of police.

[Geo]

Yes, but aversion of police is an entirely different thing then fear of torture. The latter is quite a bit more personal...

[Yitzi]

Yes, but aversion of police is an entirely different thing then fear of torture. The latter is quite a bit more personal...

But aversion to police is a lot closer to letting the government commit torture.

[Fal]

1. At higher difficulty levels, conquest drones and University drones are next to irrelevant, as the total drones before bureaucracy is capped at population.  With several specialists, even Lal's talents become irrelevant likewise.

Proposed fix (optional): The total drones before bureaucracy will not be capped at population; any extras just become superdrones.

Fully agree with this proposal.

2. When determining whether to cancel talents with drones, superdrones are counted twice (once under "drones", once under "superdrones").  There is really no need for this (as the purpose of said cancellation seems to be so that there are enough nonspecialists to become drones and talents.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Don't count them twice.

I'm not sure I fully understand this one.  Shouldn't superdrones count twice in all drone calculations?

3. If more than half the citizens are specialists (unavoidable for bases size 41 or above), it is impossible to have a golden age.  Furthermore, after everyone becomes a superdrone any extras are lost.

Proposed fix (optional): Extra talents and superdrones won't show on the base screen, but will still be present in terms of effect.

Agree with this proposal.

4. The Planetary Transit System counts as a facility rather than a Secret Project.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Count it as a Secret Project.

Agree.

5. Facilities, police, and secret projects quell superdrones just as well as normal drones.  (Thanks to ete for pointing this out.)  Furthermore, facilities do not quell pacifism drones.  (Thanks to Petek for pointing this out.)

Proposed fix (optional; may be split into two if such is requested): Change these so facilities/police/projects have to first turn superdrones into normal drones before turning them into workers, and facilities do work against pacifism drones.  (Note that this does not make pacifism drones anywhere near irrelevant, as you'll need your facilities for normal drones anyway.)

Agree with the first part.  I'm not so sure about the second part - in real life, I would compare regular drones to general unhappiness in a population, so it makes sense that things like Rec Commons and Hologram Theaters would quell them.  Pacifism drones would be more like rioters responding to specific incidents such as war mongering.  It makes sense, at least in my mind, that facilities would not appease them.  Of course, this is a game and sometimes gameplay trumps realism, but I like having pacifism drones as a very nasty problem to deal with.

6. There can be "ghost drones" that show up in the main base screen but not on the psych screen and have no effect.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Make them not show up on the main base screen.

Agree.

7. When finding police units, the Self-Aware Colony (which does not have non-lethal methods) counts before units which have non-lethal methods, so the project can actually reduce the effectiveness of police.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Make it not reduce the effectiveness of police.

Agree, silly for it to override non-lethal methods police units.

8. -1 POLICE is negligible if you're trying to avoid atrocities anyway.  Furthermore, it doesn't make sense that punishment spheres should work when nerve stapling doesn't, and thirdly punishment spheres make it too easy to avoid the drones of Free Market.

Proposed fix (optional): When you have a negative POLICE rating, punishment spheres do not work, and neither does the non-lethal methods ability.

I can go either way on this one, I think adding it as an optional fix is the way to go.

[Yitzi]

2. When determining whether to cancel talents with drones, superdrones are counted twice (once under "drones", once under "superdrones").  There is really no need for this (as the purpose of said cancellation seems to be so that there are enough nonspecialists to become drones and talents.

Proposed fix (mandatory): Don't count them twice.

I'm not sure I fully understand this one.  Shouldn't superdrones count twice in all drone calculations?

Not quite.  When it comes to cancelling out talents, they should count twice.  But when determining whether there are enough nonspecialists to become drones and talents, counting them twice is silly.

Basically, a size 4 base that's supposed to have 1 specialist, 2 talents, and 2 drones has to do something because there's only 4 citizens (what it does is reduce it to 1 specialist, 1 talent, and 1 drone).  But a size 4 base that's supposed to have 0 specialists, 2 talents, 1 normal drone, and 1 superdrone should be able to stay how it is, as there are enough people for all the "roles".  But what it in fact does is think "2 talents, 2 drones, 1 superdrone, 2+2+1=5, that's more than 4, better do something."

Agree with the first part.  I'm not so sure about the second part - in real life, I would compare regular drones to general unhappiness in a population, so it makes sense that things like Rec Commons and Hologram Theaters would quell them.  Pacifism drones would be more like rioters responding to specific incidents such as war mongering.  It makes sense, at least in my mind, that facilities would not appease them.  Of course, this is a game and sometimes gameplay trumps realism, but I like having pacifism drones as a very nasty problem to deal with.

Ok, so I'll split it into 2, so if you want to play with one but not the other, you can.

[Fal]

Not quite.  When it comes to cancelling out talents, they should count twice.  But when determining whether there are enough nonspecialists to become drones and talents, counting them twice is silly.

Basically, a size 4 base that's supposed to have 1 specialist, 2 talents, and 2 drones has to do something because there's only 4 citizens (what it does is reduce it to 1 specialist, 1 talent, and 1 drone).  But a size 4 base that's supposed to have 0 specialists, 2 talents, 1 normal drone, and 1 superdrone should be able to stay how it is, as there are enough people for all the "roles".  But what it in fact does is think "2 talents, 2 drones, 1 superdrone, 2+2+1=5, that's more than 4, better do something."

Ahh, ok, I see what you're saying now.  Yea, it's clearly a bug that superdrones would count towards the population count twice.

[Yitzi]

I realized one more thing:  Max drones are capped at nonspecialists, so any after that are lost.  So in the same optional fix from #3, I think it's also worth making it so that those extra drones become superdrones.  i.e. if you have a size 5 base on Transcend (so it should have 4 drones) and make 2 specialists, you'll end up with 1 superdrone and 2 normal drones.

[Fal]

Agreed.

[Geo]

But aversion to police is a lot closer to letting the government commit torture.

I'm not going to discuss the fine points of this, sorry. I only offered my .

[Yitzi]

One more thing I'll be fixing: As it is, if you use alphax.txt to make a native life form (i.e. premade unit with psi attack, psi defense) with the Non-Lethal Methods ability, the Cult gets the police bonus twice, once for Non-Lethal Methods and once for Worm Police.  I'm changing it to only get it once.

[Yitzi]

And one last thing that occurred to me: As it stands, a superdrone counts just like a normal drone for drone riots, i.e. a base with 2 superdrones and 2 talents will not riot.  Therefore, as part of optional fix 3, I will also have them count double for that purpose.

[Buster's Uncle]

On a somewhat-related note, what's the deal with when a base golden ages when the population is an even number, and won't no matter what you do when the population is an odd number (or it may be the other way around)?  It may not count as a bug, but once I get the Cloning Vats built, it sure is annoying.

[Yitzi]

On a somewhat-related note, what's the deal with when a base golden ages when the population is an even number, and won't no matter what you do when the population is an odd number (or it may be the other way around)?  It may not count as a bug, but once I get the Cloning Vats built, it sure is annoying.

I'm not sure what you're talking about; it should always golden age when at least half the population is talents and there are no drones.  Perhaps you can provide a savegame where it happens?