SMAX - The Will to Power - mod

[dino]

Inductio's idea to make tubes on enemy territory count as roads and make AI build tubes again.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Inductio's idea to make tubes on enemy territory count as roads and make AI build tubes again.

It's on my TODO list. I meant anything that is a major annoyance and relatively easy to fix. So want to take a break now and play test the whole composition of changes.

The road stuff is kinda a complete game war style modification. It'll be a different game.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Adding to road idea.
It'll change land combat logistics but not sea and air. Would it skew the tactics and strategy toward much heavier use of sea/air units? We should think about this too. I may be not desirable.

[dino]

Land units should cost less for the same firepower, I've added 1 to the cost value of everything below hovertank.

With increased armor values, the combat outcome is no longer determined only by which unit striked first and with no stack wipes slow units are no longer as vulnerable as in vanilla, for this reason copters are no longer completely overpowering land forces, because their multiple attacks don't matter since after one strike they are too damaged to attack again and the assault of just 3 copters no longer can wipe a stack thanks to no splash damage.

So using land units will always be preferable over anything else whenever logistically possible, if they'll be more cost effective and they should.

That said thinker already doesn't build tubes anyway, so it doesn't matter and with all gameplay changes already implemented you could reenable tubes for AIs even without this feature and it'd already help them. Because each base assault costs many lost units now, and repairing damaged ones takes few turns, so unless you have few times units more then enemy, it's already impossible to take too many bases in a single turn and tubes would help AI to retaliate before you can repair your invading forces.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Land units should cost less for the same firepower, I've added 1 to the cost value of everything below hovertank.

That said thinker already doesn't build tubes anyway, so it doesn't matter and with all gameplay changes already implemented you could reenable tubes for AIs even without this feature and it'd already help them. Because each base assault costs many lost units now, and repairing damaged ones takes few turns, so unless you have few times units more then enemy, it's already impossible to take too many bases in a single turn and tubes would help AI to retaliate before you can repair your invading forces.

Thinker AI doesn't build tubes?

Do you suggest to not implement this "no roads on enemy territory stuff" as no longer critical? I say I tend to agree. First strike is not decisive factor against prepared defense anymore. You still may take 1-2 bases by surprise but that's it.

[dino]

No roads would be overkill imo, I've argued only for no tubes on enemy territory, I'd say if it wouldn't be problematic to implement, no tubes on enemy territory would be definitely worth trying.
Tubes is an infrastructure, that requires power, access to control systems and actual train squads to function, it doesn't make sense to be able to use such infrastructure on enemy territory.
Nothing can prevent you from riding on the roads. From game balance point of view, without roads assault would be too tedious, too long and too difficult, with tubes it's too easy.

Yes, thinker AI on purpose doesn't build tubes, to prevent player from overtaking most of the bases in a single turn of coordinated assault, which I think would no longer be possible in your mod.

Edit:
When I think about it now, way more essential for preventing blitzkrieg, would be to make tubes cost 1/6 movement point, instead of free.
Since after you conquer a base, it's your territory and you could still ride tubes to the border of the next base for free.

As for no roads, if you implement one, you could easily implement both and make it configurable I guess.
But it would be an overkill imo, you would decimate approaching AI forces with artillery, before they could reach your bases.
Maybe make enemy road cost 1/2 movement point ?

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

make tubes cost 1/6 movement point, instead of free.

Interesting solution. I thought about this too. I don't like units traveling from coast to coast in one turn. I anticipate a lot of problems on this path, though. 3 is a magic number that is hard coded everywhere. Including decrease in strength for rush attack.
So 1/3 is a whole number in game mind whereas 1/6 is fractional.
 

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Found another active Alpha Centauri forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/alphacentauri/
It's not that detailed as this one. However, it has some activity. I'll be posting there too.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

https://www.reddit.com/r/alphacentauri/comments/et2ccg/homeland_defense_bonus/
New idea: homeland defense bonus.

[dino]

There is no reason to stack more and more defense bonuses, you'll make it impossible to conquer anything.

In realistic strategy games you have things like 300% defense bonus on entrenched positions, if they model supply of munitions, so it's about making a breakthrough, pocketing enemies and starving them of supplies. If you get consistent 1:3 odds in SMAC, you'll make it impossible to conquer without 4:1 economy advantage, do you really want that ? Also homeland defense bonuses already exist, they're called sensor array and children creeche. You also need a lot of artillery to damage in the base and since you've made arty use defense rating in duels, attacking arty is at the same disadvantage during artillery duel as regular units during their base assault.

Just make AI mix in some decent proportion of arty units in later stages of the game, no extra bonuses required imo. The most important thing now, would be to make AI build enough units to dedicate around turn 40, something like 20-30% ( depending on AI fight ) of production to military support, even if not threatend and in later stages of the game it should be even more, also disband/upgrade obsolete units.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

There is no reason to stack more and more defense bonuses, you'll make it impossible to conquer anything.

I don't think I stack more an more bonuses. This is the first one I've introduced.

If you get consistent 1:3 odds in SMAC, you'll make it impossible to conquer without 4:1 economy advantage, do you really want that ?

I don't think I get consistent 1:3 odds. I think I get consistent 1:1 with artillery and 1:2 odds without artillery at best. That is why I am still concerned about defense. If I consistently get 1:3 I stop worrying already. Haven't you read my post?

Also homeland defense bonuses already exist, they're called sensor array and children creeche.

Yes. Sensors are sort of homeland bonus. However, they need to be built and they are easy to destroy. They do not work on water. They are nice addition but unreliable and inconsistent between land/sea. The sudden border change may flip its ownership. Sensors built next to a border extend their influence 2 tiles into enemy territory which is kinda defeats their initial idea. That is why I reverted their bonus back to 25% to decrease discrepancy between land/sea combat and due to their unreliability and difficulty to control. Otherwise, sudden on/off jumps of 50% bonus would create much frustration. Such a small bonus does not turn odds upside down. The random difference in weapon and armor is much more volatile especially in early game.

Homeland bonus is free of all the above problems. It is free, persistent, consistent, logical (does not extend beyond borders). It is easy to understand and visualize since borders are already drawn on a map. It is there to help defenders from day 1 making it more difficult to catch anyone unprepared. I agree that combined with sensors 50% may be too much. Well we can lower it down to 25% then.

Children Creche is controversial thing.

• It works in bases only. The rest of the land is unprotected by it. I don't think it is fair to bring it into a homeland bonus discussion.
• It adds to both attack and defense. While defense for base garrison makes sense attack does not. One need to attack from base to get this bonus. Meaning that if you attack enemy unit that is adjacent to base but do it NOT from base square - you don't get the bonus. I hate such intricate rules.
• Another illogical thing is that you get bonus only when you run negative MORALE SE. Why on earth to lower your one bonus to receive another? I hate such intricate rules.
• CC morale bonus could be an interesting idea but formulas are exceptionally complicated and not at all transparent to user.
• Last but not least. It is bugged. There are so many articles about its usage and effect. There are so many attempts to fix or circumvent it.

I turned its morale effects off completely.

You also need a lot of artillery to damage in the base and since you've made arty use defense rating in duels, attacking arty is at the same disadvantage during artillery duel as regular units during their base assault.

One artillery piece is enough. As long as it is unchallenged by enemy artillery it can halve health of all comparable defense strength units in base in ~10 turns. More pieces will just do it faster.

I didn't implement armor use for artillery duel yet. Duel has little to do with base bombardment. As soon as all duels are done only one side retains artillery and continues bombarding.
You are right that attacking heavily armored artillery is tough. Again this has nothing to do with the duel and using armor in duel. One could just armor their artillery pieces to make them more difficult to be knocked out by opponent counter strikes.

Besides, how all this relevant to homeland bonus? With artillery attacker increases their odds to 1:1. Without it it is somewhere 1:2. All these numbers are very rough estimate. What I am leading at is that even 1:2 is not enough protection against twice more economically stronger opponent. And 2 times fluctuations in economical power between factions is a completely common case. I don't want defense to be completely impenetrable but I want it to be at least twice as more effective as assault in any case. So in my understanding attacker's odds should not in any case be better than 1:1.5-2.

Just make AI mix in some decent proportion of arty units in later stages of the game, no extra bonuses required imo. The most important thing now, would be to make AI build enough units to dedicate around turn 40, something like 20-30% ( depending on AI fight ) of production to military support, even if not threatend and in later stages of the game it should be even more, also disband/upgrade obsolete units.

You already proposed it and it is on my TODO list. I like the idea but implementation may take some time. Have patience. For now let's work with simpler changes. If after implementing your idea they prove to be redundant we'll get rid of them. Piece of cake. For now they are not.

[dino]

Thank you for a comprehensive answer and sorry for the tone of my post.

I've usually post on a gaming forum where people are edgy and annoying all the time for fun and needlesly carried some of this attitude here.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Don't worry about it. Tone or no tone - I am soliciting opinions here to see myself from others points of view. I could be preoccupied or fixated on my ideas and this may cloud my judgement. The dialog and exchange of arguments here is not to shut down the opponent. This is more to roll them out, try out from different angles and use cases, uncover some details others may overlooked, etc. In other words this is sort of pre play testing.


Don't hesitate to express your opinion even weird ones. Everything counts.

Reiterating the same, I am do not pretend this mod is the best mod of all times.
Different people are seeking different experience. This one is for those seeking same as I do: highlighting existing but obscure strategies and features. Along the way I also try to fix logical bugs just to minimize frustration with the game. That is things should work the way the regular user would expect, how they are advertised in datalinks. They should also be overly complicated so it is impossible to memorize and use them.
Of course, things like "complicated" is highly subjective. That's why I am running my thoughts through people on this and other forums. Thank you for staying with me. I appreciate it.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

I've usually post on a gaming forum where people are edgy and annoying all the time for fun and needlesly carried some of this attitude here.

What are these forums? Do they discuss SMACX? Would it be beneficial to cover this audience for my mod too?

[dino]

RPG Codex, I wouldn't go as far as posting updates there, but you could advertise your mod there I guess.
I'm pretty sure every SMACer from the codex knows about alphacentauri2.info, so not sure if there would be a point to that, though.

Kyrub was engaging with this crowd, when he was working on his SMAC 444 AI mod: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/smac-444-ai-patch-updated-p.56203/

Here is a general SMAC thread: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-unsurpassed-brian-reynolds-alpha-centauri-thread.101751/