Star Trek

[Buster's Uncle]

He does his best work sordid and swearing - it's the Clockwork Orange and Caligula guy we're talking about.

Agreed that he didn't have anything to work with, or he'd have been much more compelling, but the role was a pretty melodramatic one, albeit with mitigating/grace notes, that would have been better from a specialist in mustache-twirling.  Mylochka says Alan Rickman would have been perfect - I used David Warner as an example of a (competent) hack at these sorts of things who probably still would have been better.

[ColdWizard]

(Was it ever explained why insert evil villain couldn't have just flown a ship into the damn thing?) 

IIRC, Whoopi's character said something along the lines of the ship would start breaking up too soon and getting in would be chancy.

Anyway, we really didn't get a good setup of the incredibly destructive thingy IS HEAVEN, NOR did the villain ever really threaten anything we are invested in, so he falls completely flat.  Sure we're TOLD he's evil and gonna do evil and we end up on the top of a desolate desert mountain threatening...what? 

It was going to destroy an inhabited planet further in. Being rather standard to "save the aliens" in ST, I was fine with that premise.

[Vishniac]

(Was it ever explained why insert evil villain couldn't have just flown a ship into the damn thing?) 

IIRC, Whoopi's character said something along the lines of the ship would start breaking up too soon and getting in would be chancy.

Anyway, we really didn't get a good setup of the incredibly destructive thingy IS HEAVEN, NOR did the villain ever really threaten anything we are invested in, so he falls completely flat.  Sure we're TOLD he's evil and gonna do evil and we end up on the top of a desolate desert mountain threatening...what? 

It was going to destroy an inhabited planet further in. Being rather standard to "save the aliens" in ST, I was fine with that premise.

Thanks!
Everytime I read a bad review on the internet, I wonder if people are unable to understand the movie, don't listen or just do something else while watching. And after, they come and say the movie was crap...
If you can't understand a movie, don't criticize it!

[Buster's Uncle]

No, I remembered the handwaves in the movie.  -I didn't believe them, but I haven't complained about them, either.

[Unorthodox]

(Was it ever explained why insert evil villain couldn't have just flown a ship into the damn thing?) 

IIRC, Whoopi's character said something along the lines of the ship would start breaking up too soon and getting in would be chancy.

Wasn't Kirk pulled in off a ship though, and the ship weathered it remarkably well? (minus insert impressive technobabble damage)  An OLD ship, mind.  Or am I foggy braining it?  If you say it was explained, I'll take your word.  I watched it 20 years ago and can foggy brain portions.  It wasn't a criticism it was a question.  I LIKE the whole destroy billions to get to heaven concept. 

Anyway, we really didn't get a good setup of the incredibly destructive thingy IS HEAVEN, NOR did the villain ever really threaten anything we are invested in, so he falls completely flat.  Sure we're TOLD he's evil and gonna do evil and we end up on the top of a desolate desert mountain threatening...what? 

It was going to destroy an inhabited planet further in. Being rather standard to "save the aliens" in ST, I was fine with that premise.

[/quote]

I KNOW it was going to kill (insert impressively large number of people here) on random planet at some point later.  My point is I'm not invested in those people as an audience.  IIRC we don't even SEE those people, let alone develope FEELINGS for them.  That's what I mean when I say we're TOLD he's going to be EVIL.  We don't really get to SEE it.  This is a trap Science Fiction gets into a lot, mind you.  If you want us to CARE about (insert aliens here) we need to see it, not just be told we SHOULD care. 

Or maybe I'm a cold hearted SOB. 

Well, no maybe about that really.

Thanks!
Everytime I read a bad review on the internet, I wonder if people are unable to understand the movie, don't listen or just do something else while watching. And after, they come and say the movie was crap...
If you can't understand a movie, don't criticize it!

Go ahead and explain what you think I didn't understand.  Never said it was crap, just that it had good ideas that could have been done better. 

[ColdWizard]

Wasn't Kirk pulled in off a ship though, and the ship weathered it remarkably well? (minus insert impressive technobabble damage)  An OLD ship, mind.  Or am I foggy braining it?  If you say it was explained, I'll take your word.  I watched it 20 years ago and can foggy brain portions.  It wasn't a criticism it was a question.   

Kirk was pulled in off a ship. But it was the maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B (I looked it up), so a big ship and state of the art, as it were. Old compared to the Enterprise-D though. I'll agree that it weathered it remarkably well, but that's because of Kirk's noble sacrifice.



I may be foggy braining if it was Whoopi's character that said ships were too risky or, as stated in wiki, that Data and Picard determined that later. I do assume that ships the caliber of the Enterprise-B are rare even in the TNG-era and the main villain does not seem to be wealthy enough for a ship of quality.

I KNOW it was going to kill (insert impressively large number of people here) on random planet at some point later.  My point is I'm not invested in those people as an audience.  IIRC we don't even SEE those people, let alone develope FEELINGS for them.  That's what I mean when I say we're TOLD he's going to be EVIL.  We don't really get to SEE it.  This is a trap Science Fiction gets into a lot, mind you.  If you want us to CARE about (insert aliens here) we need to see it, not just be told we SHOULD care. 

Or maybe I'm a cold hearted SOB. 

Well, no maybe about that really.

Should care is enough for me, for this franchise, since it's a goody-goody save all lives deal. I can definitely see how that might not be enough but I think showing them would drag out the plot and be difficult to do within time constraints of movies.

Also, it would also get dull if all the movies were save Earth all the time, the galaxy is large and all the bad things happening in a specific part of one solar system would start messing with suspension of disbelief.

I LIKE the whole destroy billions to get to heaven concept.

I liked the concept too, but the execution of heaven didn't really fit my perception of either of the captains. If they were to have families/relationships, I'd still expect them to be on a ship of some sort.

[Valka]

Which picture got hotlinked above?


Regarding the Enterprise-B, it was state of the art new... except half of its essential systems (like weapons) weren't due to be delivered until Tuesday (presumably Kirk was pulled into the Nexus on a day that was not Tuesday).

[Unorthodox]

Should care is enough for me, for this franchise, since it's a goody-goody save all lives deal. I can definitely see how that might not be enough but I think showing them would drag out the plot and be difficult to do within time constraints of movies.

Also, it would also get dull if all the movies were save Earth all the time, the galaxy is large and all the bad things happening in a specific part of one solar system would start messing with suspension of disbelief.

Doesn't always need to be Earth.  The TNG episode where Picard gets the flute does a good job about making you care about the fate of insert random alien here.  Heck, Guardians of the Galaxy does a decent job with practically no setup of who or what Nova Prime is, a couple shots of panicked citizens is all it took.  Any suitably random M-class planet works.  Hell, toss in a class O with mermaliens for all I care. 

Mermaliens...love that word...

[ColdWizard]

Which picture got hotlinked above?

Exterior shot of Enterprise-B showing Scotty, Chekov, and Captain Whots-is-face looking out into space for Kirk.

[Buster's Uncle]

John Harrison, wasn't it?

[Valka]

Harriman. You're thinking of nuKhan's alias on STiD.

[Buster's Uncle]

I actually thought of that when I saw you'd posted.  Harriman is from Heinlein; I should remember it by that...

[hEtErOdOx]

Well, I find I don't have a lot to contribute, apparently I've become a pseudo-fan.  I hardly remember Generations.  I remember liking it fine at the time, but disappointed that it wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be. 

As for your question a page back about my favorite Captain... Uno's right, it's Picard, although I really fell for Kirk first, through the Movies.  My first Star Trek Movie was The Voyage Home.  My dad took my siblings and I (I think my mom managed to get out of it somehow).  I loved the movie, but remember, I was about 10?  From that point on I was a fan. 

Picard IMO is the quintessential perfect Captain...wild in his youth, becoming more wise with more experience.  As an actor, I find Stewart understated, preferring to shine during episodes that highlighted him and fading into the background when other cast members were highlighted. 

[Buster's Uncle]

He did have a gift you don't always find in RSC-trained actors, that he didn't try to hit the back row when he was on-camera and it wasn't right for the scene.

I can't imagine him going all Brian Blessed anyway, but RSC people tend to try a lot...

[Valka]

Brian Blessed isn't always bombastic. There are some excellent dramatic scenes in I, Claudius when he speaks in a normal tone of voice, very sincere, such as when he and Claudius have a frank discussion about Germanicus and Postumus.

Unfortunately, that's the episode in which Livia kills him...