Alternate views on certain aspects of the original seven factions

[Dio]

Do you think it could be argued, based upon 's quotes, that The Hive could be highly interested in technology or research? What are Miriam's motives for creating the Believers? What type of government structure would they create?

[Buster's Uncle]

Well, Yang is all about human potential in the tech quotes and SP movies.  I don't think that's hard to reconcile with the totalitarian aspects, given the eastern value for harmony and devotion to the group over the individual.  The Superior Man will adapt and rise wherever he finds himself.  His tools are not how he proves himself superior, but he would not shun equal or better tools, being wise.

Miriam loves Jesus, and appears to me to come from a rather harsh Calvinist background - I fancy her plainness to be largely by design, or she'd have combed that lump out of her hair before answering the comm.  Charismatic leaders -which she's supposed to be one of- don't forget those sorts of details by accident.  Her tech quotes and project movies are those of a ethicist questioning, but not inherently hostile to science.


Are these opinions helpful/what you're looking for at all?

[Dio]

I always felt that the developers had ignored the fact that Zakharov's official background states him as being a engineer and not just a researcher. I also felt that Yang would certainly be willing to have his elite people do strictly controlled research that could potentially benefit his closed society.

I would give Zakharov +1 SUPPORT, halved raising and lowering elevation costs, Automatic discovery of any tech known by three other factions, Tech Costs reduced by 25%, and 2 free tech picks at the start of a game. I would then give Yang +1 RESEARCH, 1 additional labs at each base, and Free network nodes at each base plus two other bonuses.

[Nexii]

I'm not sure that Yang would be all that much for research than anyone else.  It could be argued like Zak that he has less ethical barriers to it (goals of the group, etc).  If anything though I felt Yang should get police/probe bonuses - and police state should give the same.  Given all we've seen since SMAC came out, probe (internet security) has become a big thing for totalitarian regimes and I imagine it would only become more important.  See Lal's quotes on The Planetary Datalinks.

As for Miriam I'd envision her government to be Fundamentalism, the Conclave is mentioned a lot so I'd imagine she would have a number of bishops/cardinals of both genders at the top.

Personally I'm more for factions with less bonuses/penalties: around 3 bonuses and 2 penalties, but that's just me.  That puts the focus on what's really at the core of the faction rather than side maybe-fitting bonuses.  It's also much easier to balance for playtest.  A good example might be Zak's -PROBE, I felt that one was a stretch.  And Miriam's -PLANET.  Even Gaians -MORALE was a stretch to me considering how much of their quotes are about their war with the Spartans.  Depends what source you're using I guess - the written backstory, ingame quotes, or some combination of that and what is 'logical' for a faction of their ideology.

[JarlWolf]

When I was making my own factions, I looked at the originals and I said to myself;

What would these societies actually be like to live in? To truly understand a nation or a faction you must have some idea of the quality of life and type of life lived in it to judge and understand.

The Hive is a disciplined society, one of regimented schedule and work, with collective workplaces that are supervised to keep a rather quiet, professional environment. I could very well imagine that the typical Hive citizen just likes to sit and relax when he or she comes home to their assigned quarters and rest, maybe patch into a calming radio program chairman Yang has setup of focused mind and meditation programs to soothe the nerves of his workers. A sort of en masse yoga program or tai chi, via hologram studio's etc. His overall society is one about not over stimulated propaganda, but carefully controlled media and selective messages to help regulate his citizens emotions and thoughts. He creates a highly disciplined society out of strict social structure and values, as well as corporal punishment; but his citizens themselves are fairly obedient because of this. Not very free thinking per say, but very obedient and certainly not stupid. A Hive citizen would be fairly skilled in their respective line of work.

As for Miriam, I imagine her society to be like a very orthodox religious community, and I use the word orthodox in the sense they are very traditional, have established social values and practices and things expected of them. They probably have their fair share of judgemental WASPS and equivalents and such in their social ladder, and they may very well have frugal, very dogmatic priesthoods who are a sort of "no fun allowed, no dancing because it is devilwork, etc" type of attitude. I could very well imagine education to take a very benevolent sort of mask with subliminal messages of Christian militantism and obedience underneath it all. As for the citizens they probably go home to modestly comfortable homes, not extravagant by any means but not so clinically managed such as the Hives, and I like to think of Salem as it was in the Puritan days for equivalent religious social structuring in terms of how people live.

I also think research isn't totally shunned, these aren't 16th century puritans, but it is definitely questioned a lot on its ethics. I could very well imagine people discussing the ethics of certain sciences in their churches and social clubs in this very Protestant styled society.

As for Zhakarov, I literally imagine his society like a University on a grand scale with the environments of research laboratories. Social life would be composed of people listening in on lectures of new profound discoveries or philosophers and theorists with a level of security befitting of such public institutions; there would probably be some surveillance in important establishments but not in an totalitarian manner. 

Morgan I imagine to be very Corporate like with a stark mixture of industrial plants and operations with grimy foremen and such to cubicled offices and established social hierarchies, all of which in the spare time citizens spend at lavish dinner parties trying to impress their co-workers and bosses. It is also a society of deep disparity I could imagine and there wouldn't be too much security except at the workplace, and people would have to rely on their own coffers for healthcare. Meaning its a bit of a dog eat dog corporate ladder.

Now for me the society I seriously wonder how it functions would be  ,  and  or  to some extents. I could kind of guess but I don't know, for Roze all I can think of is Bladerunner or something similar where her faction is actually more of an underground movement and underworld of its own. And as for the other two I just question how much authority and other such things is implemented in those societies, I know Marr is a despotic king more or less in presumably a warrior society but what of H'mnee? Or how their societies are actually are?

Gaians I kind of have an idea of already, same as Spartans. And both were somewhat mentioned by others, and same goes as Lal's and I would know how  's society would work as I lived in a Socialist regime, albiet not as politically free.

  would be a cult, and that alone implies enough I think. I've seen enough cults and sects to know how they work.

[Nexii]

Nice writeup Jarl.  *Almost* makes Hive life sound great .  I can see how +IND fits Hive as they work hard for the collective group.  Likely long hours like many Southeast Asian economies tend to currently. +GROWTH doesn't seem to really fit them however.  I have to feel it was sort of given just because they had Democracy aversion.  Not sure that Network Nodes really fit Yang, they're more of a closed society.

Makes me wonder how a poll of "what faction would you join" would go.  I think of all the factions Lal was portrayed the most favorably.  But I do wonder, what would be the downsides of his society.  I personally wouldn't choose Hive or Believers but there had to be something appealing about their side.  But to play devil's advocate, I think it would be difficult to defect from a faction in the early years, where they are spread out and the anoxic environment on top of this.  Two or three generations before the factions meet up again would more ferment their views. 

As noted is all the factions see the value in research, even Miriam.  I'm less convinced it's research knowledge that really drives Yang's followers though.  More focus on virtues such as order, security, loyalty would be valued.  Which on Chiron would be fairly appealing - it's a harsh environment.  Hive would see other factions as either undisciplined (aside from Spartan, Believers).  In the case of Spartans, they would be too individualist (IMO, +POLICE does not really fit their liberty doctrines), and for Believers, putting God above Man would hard to reconcile.  Yang can take Fundamentalist though, but I'd imagine that's more along the lines of N.Korea where Yang himself would be worshipped as God by his followers.

[JarlWolf]

To me Lal's society would be one that's fairly liberal, but I could very well see a sort of clique forming of elitist intellectuals who harp down on more average folk with over bureaucratic regulations and safety procedures that just bog down efficiency. Bleeding hearts who don't have much working experience so to say;

of course his society would be fairly free, freedom of expression would be an utmost and political freedom would be up there as well... but I think it'd also have lots of issues that modern liberal democracies face exemplified. You'll probably have welfare state bitterness; and the fact its based off the UN, the government may be fairly inactive in enforcement so I can see crime actually being a problem.

Peacekeeper society would probably be an alright place to live in, but I can't see it being completely safe either. Combine the influx of refugee's and a strained system that's under the weight of bureaucracy and support programs it might not function very well. Crime enforcement I am thinking might be an issue, especially in refugee camps or in outskirt area's.

The difference between a true socialist state and a liberal democracy is that the economy, and socio-economic conditions to that regard, are fairly well controlled by a communal mindset and government. The Peacekeepers however are more of just a bureaucracy that would be clogged by the lack of control of the economy and thus, as any democracy that allows capitalism, especially a highly liberal one, would suffer inefficiencies and vote buying/party shareholding.


Plus; I see the Peacekeepers having similar problems to the EU when it comes to economics, the bureaucratic nature of its political organization combined with a UN Mindset will have a fair bit of issues trying to eliminate regional disparities and correctly averaging resources, which isn't as effectively done due to the layers of red tape such a specific bureaucracy would have.

[Nexii]

Yea, though I think a Democracy has less economic inefficiencies (corruption) than Police State or Fundamentalism.  Nonetheless I do agree, there would be policing issues.  This is why I mod -POLICE to Democratic, I think that would be a bigger issue than military support.  Because Democracy is all about human rights, which means you can't just put down riots with force.  I'm not sure if Lal would necessarily be capitalist economy.  I think his agenda is just Democracy, and rather neutral on economy.  If anything I saw him more tending to Planned, over Free Market / Capitalist.  That would more account for the inherent economic inefficiencies & bureaucracy.  I suppose that elitist clique would be represented by the 1/4 Talents, who feel good about helping the poorer refuges. 

Gaian society might be one of the more interesting ones.  I found their nature rather odd in the game: pacifist yet always fighting with the Spartans.  I suppose pacifist tendencies don't always imply pacifist behavior, if pushed

Aki, well your guess is as good as mine.  When I think "Cybernetic hivemind", the evil Borg more come to mind.  Yet they're depicted as pacifist / technology research focused - so maybe something like if "Seven of Nine" had her own faction. I think the SMAX 5 are a lot more difficult since less flavor is given.  I would think somewhat similar to Zakharov, although more communication and research might be done remotely rather than at university-like settings.  I picture their architecture as being very functional - as much as the Hive's.  Likely much more technology abound, but with very little effort spent on art, music, and the like (right brain as they put it).  I felt the Conciousness should perhaps get -SUPPORT (for all the infrastructure required), or -MORALE (since pacifist).  -GROWTH is probably the most fitting.  -INDUSTRY might fit also due to their extreme focus on the theoretical over the practical.  I suppose 'The Algorithm' would influence a lot of their day to day thoughts and activities.  Hard to say if Aki would be the one guiding that (Police State?), or if its more out of her control (Democracy?).  Since they are all possessed somehow, I would assume that there's a technological process involved to induct new CyCon members.

[Impaler]

I've always thought it a bit odd that Believer society seems to be so blatantly modeled on American Evangelical Protestantism despite the numerous references to new holy texts, aka 'Conclave Bible' and the knowledge that the Unity crew consists of an eclectic mix of international crew members of a wide set of religious backgrounds.

If you've read the SMAC back-story you know that Miriam is really the most 'accidental' faction leader, she ran away from joining Zhakarov's landing craft (lots of sexual tension their) and stumbled into another craft that was damaged and leaderless and manages to be it's savior in a sense.  Other factions were largely self-selective in their personnel, but Miriam just got a random cross-section of all of Earth, the fact that they are molded into a religious society seems to have been done entirely on Miriam's personal charisma and the bond created by her rescue of them.

Given the mixed background I always imagined 'Conclavism' to be some kind of Bahai like fusion of multiple religions with the Cristian elements perhaps being most prominent.  Alternatively it might be like Mormonism in that Miriam has a series of 'Revelations' which are recorded in the frequently mentioned Conclave Bible.

[Buster's Uncle]

-Or sixty years in the future had seen religious developments...

[JarlWolf]

Gaians I see more as attuned environmentalists with a rather euphoria driven society of tolerance and acceptance, it sounds like they are hippies, and they are amongst themselves- but when it comes to defending their communities and environments they actually get fairly nasty I'd think. They probably have a very "Guardian" like mentality, like gardenkeepers or something similar who maintain their environment and that of Planet's so they can sustain themselves, and when their sustainability is threatened they gear up and go to war.

In honesty, I actually don't think the Spartans and Gaians are truly THAT different when it comes to their mindset on survival; the key difference is their opinion on planet, the former more about conquering it and the other adapting, both survivalist mindsets in their own right.

And they both are actually warlike come to think of it, but the former prefers military precision, tactic and jackboot over naturalizing, using your environment as a tool/weapon and adapting to your surroundings.

Two starkly similar ideals really, just with FAR different approaches.

[Dio]

I also think that Zakharov's and Morgan's factions would have issues with drones because they would tend to create either a elitist top group of researchers or a huge disparity between the rich and poor of the factions.

[Nexii]

Drones penalty probably fits Morgan better than Zak, IMO.  But Zak would be a close second.  It's trickier to think of good penalties for Zak.  Even negative probe is kind of a stretch, though it works.  They're more about discovering knowledge than stealing it I guess...

[Impaler]

Well Probe rating makes Zak leak technology like a sieve, which is appropriate (academics don't like to keep secrets) and it's kind of a critical Achilles heel if the University is in the tech lead, you need to be able to tech steal back to parity (which is why the HSA was so unbalanced in it's original form as it could single-handedly remove the Universities one weakness).

I always found the whole notion that University Drone penalty comes from the 'unethical' or 'reckless' nature of Zak's research it be quite silly, the average man on the street simply dose not get his heckles up about stuff happening in a laboratory.  Particularly when your at a state of war with other factions and hostile native life forms and that research is all that stands between you and certain death.  It's crazy to imagine that people are 'Droning out' over issues like Stem-cells and some of the ludite concerns that exist in our day and age.

Now what WOULD makes sense is if the University as a culture has a big underclass of people who couldn't make the Cut intellectually to be in the privileged tenured academic ruling elite.  The University strikes me as a society with would largely throw anyone with less then equivalent of a college education to the wolves and that seems to be a more logical source of drones to me.

[Nexii]

I took it that Zak would be performing unethical experiments on humans - most likely on the underclass you mentioned.  Possibly on the native life as well.