Rusty's Naval/Military History thread

[Dio]

The participants in this topic might enjoy Murray Leff’s Lens of an Infantryman: A World War II Memoir with Photographs from a Hidden Camera and Gottlob Herbert Bidermann’s In Deadly Combat: A German Soldier’s Memoir of the Eastern Front because these primary sources discussed the lived experiences of an actual soldier on the Western Front with illegal photographs and a German soldier’s combat experiences and eventual torture on the Eastern Front.

Bidermann, Gottlob Herbert, and Derek S Zumbro. In Deadly Combat: A German Soldier’s Memoir of the Eastern Front. Kansas: University Press of Kansas, 2000.

Leff, Murray. Lens of an Infantryman: A World War II Memoir with Photographs from a Hidden Camera. Jefferson, N.C: McFarland, 2007.

Philip Bell’s Twelve Turning Points of the Second World War served as a secondary source on World War II. This book analyzed the internal states of major European and American combatants and the international interactions between France, Britain, the United States of America, and the Soviet Union.

Bell, Philip Michael Hett. Twelve Turning Points of the Second World War. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2011.

[Rusty Edge]

Just as aerial drones are playing a greater role, I think submersible drones & decoys to disguise their numbers will do the same.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-navy-developing-water-based-drones-to-combat-china-pacing-challenge-but-wary-of-unproven-technology/ar-AA10a3UD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=aef6927dbe1d472bb216e835f8597102

 

[Buster's Uncle]

Archaeologists discovered a Medieval shipwreck in near perfect condition at the bottom of Norway's largest lake
Erin Snodgrass
Wed, December 14, 2022 at 2:37 PM
INSIDER



Researchers discovered a shipwreck that is likely hundreds of years old at the bottom of Norway's lake Mjøsa.Courtesy of Norwegian Defence Research Establishment.

• Researchers discovered a shipwreck site at the bottom of Norway's largest lake last month.
• Archaeologists believe the vessel, which was in near pristine condition, is up to 700 years old.
• Sonar images of the ship showed signs of the boat having had a central rudder.

A team of Norwegian researchers uncovered a maritime miracle while mapping a massive lake bed last month.

Archaeologists discovered a near-pristine shipwreck they believe to be up to 700 years old at the bottom of Norway's largest lake, Mjøsa, during a government research mission.

The vessel, which is estimated to date back sometime between the 1300s and 1800s, was found nearly 1,350 feet below the surface, according to a Facebook post from the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment. Underwater images captured the 33-foot long ship in the lake's depths.

Researchers stumbled upon the site while executing Mission Mjøsa, a government-funded project to map the 140-square mile lake bed. The body of water serves as a source of drinking water to about 100,000 people in the country, according to CNN, but the discovery of unexploded World War II munitions in the lake during previous inspections prompted a more expansive search into the water's potential health risks.



The crew discovered the shipwreck using sonar imagery to measure the lake bed via pulses, CNN reported.Courtesy of Norwegian Defence Research Establishment


Øyvind Ødegård, a maritime archaeologist at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, told Live Science last month that he was expecting to find some hidden treasures beneath the surface when he signed on to the project, given the lake's status as a vital trade route since the Viking era.

The vessel was in near-perfect condition due to a lack of wave activity in the freshwater lake, according to CNN. Ødegård told the outlet that some minimal wearing on the ship's metal indicates the wreck has been on the bottom of the lake for a long time since corrosion takes hundreds of years to happen.

Archaeologists said the stern of the ship showed signs of having had a central rudder, which didn't begin appearing on boats until the late 13th century. Using the evidence of light corrosion, as well as the rudder style, researchers narrowed down the ship's possible era to no earlier than 1300 and no later than 1850, Ødegård told CNN.



Archaeologists said the stern of the ship showed signs of having had a central rudder, which didn't begin appearing on boats until the late 13th century.Courtesy of Norwegian Defence Research Establishment.


Fuzzy, underwater photos of the boat show that the vessel is made of wood and was built with planks laid overlapped on top of one another — an old Norse technique used during the Viking age, according to Live Science.

Ødegård told CNN that the ship likely went down in bad weather since it was found in the middle of the lake.

Soon after researchers discovered the site, the weather turned and they were no longer able to investigate the wreck using camera equipment, Ødegård told media outlets. The team plans to return to the site next year once conditions improve.

Previous expeditions have uncovered some 20 shipwrecks in the lake's shallow waters, according to The Smithsonian Magazine. But Mission Mjøsa is the first project to explore the lake's greatest depths.



Researchers stumbled upon the site while executing Mission Mjøsa, a government-funded project to map the 140-square mile lake bed.Courtesy of Norwegian Defence Research Establishment


https://news.yahoo.com/archaeologists-discovered-medieval-shipwreck-near-193753105.html

[Rusty Edge]

HERE"S A SHIPWRECK STORY OF A DIFFERENT SORT

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/killer-whales-learn-to-sink-yachts-off-gibraltar/ar-AA1byXKQ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W046&cvid=c3b39cef7dcb41238ee966e518c5da80&ei=8

"A vengeful killer whale called Gladis is leading gangs of orcas in to a battle with yachts around Gibraltar, and has already sunk three boats.

It may read like something out of Moby Dick, but in this case the truth is stranger than fiction. Researchers believe that a female orca called White Gladis has been seeking revenge after being traumatised by a collision with a boat or being trapped in illegal fishing nets.

Gladis’s attacks are now being copied by the rest of the nearby killer whale population, which have learnt how to ram vessels from their ringleader."


The article continues, with some photos and video, but that is the essence of it. Gladys usually starts it with a flank attack, summons the pod, and the younger ones are learning to focus on the rudder, to good effect.

[Buster's Uncle]

That ain't gonna turn out to be good for the killer whales.

[Geo]

Maybe this pod should consider migrating to the Tunesian/Libyan coasts... Much more boats crosiing the straits there.

[Rusty Edge]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sailors-have-a-new-way-to-stop-killer-whale-attacks/ar-AA1bLtWB?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W046&cvid=c92d9c2a9f53423280275f88d735cc54&ei=17
Sprinkling sand in the water around the stern and banging on the deck confuses the sonar "picture" for the whales.

[Geo]

Next: blow a waterhorn (while it is in the water of course).

[Rusty Edge]

A captain who delivers sailing yachts has been attacked a second time. The young whales took off both rudders on his catamaran. His theory is that the whales are using the sailboats as practice dummies. By attacking the rudders they are teaching the young ones to remove the fins/flippers without wasting prey or training the prey to defend themselves.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ship-captain-attacked-by-orcas-again-says-they-developed-their-strategy/ar-AA1cngrn?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W046&cvid=1a597173e9594c67891cb84746d9bfb2&ei=10

[Rusty Edge]

They are talking about bringing back PBYs

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/reviving-the-pby-catalina-for-modern-warfare-is-this-company-s-goal/ar-AA1elnYP?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W046&cvid=aeed39e434904478b45aa79971be9dfe&ei=12#image=6

[Rusty Edge]

A-10 Pilot's Compelling Case For Replacing Warthogs With Super Hornets
Story by Patrick “BURT” Brown •
10h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/a-10-pilot-s-compelling-case-for-replacing-warthogs-with-super-hornets/ar-AA1h0nTQ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=W046&cvid=75501e715d344ece88208a8e73288b22&ei=13

The trouble with the US Navy is that they are bound by tradition. Reluctant to give up battleships in favor of carriers and submarines, for example.

The trouble with the Air Force is a sort of hubris that comes with the belief that they are the future of warfare, and a little too quick to write things off as "obsolete". That tends to get reflected in budget priorities and elite career paths. When they went to jets in Korea they thought guns on airplanes were obsolete because rockets were the new aerial weapon. In the 60s they seemed to think that strategic nukes were the new way to wage wars that rendered everything obsolete.  In Desert Storm they seemed to think that armies were obsolete, and that they could win the war by themselves. ETC.

The A-10 "Warthog" was the [progeny of unmarried parents] step child of the Air Force, but proved very effective. It was what other countries wanted to buy when they saw iit in combat. Designed to kill Russian tanks in WWIII, it worked well on Russian built tanks in Iraq. It flew lower and slower, had a gun, was armored to protect the pilot, had 2 tails and 2 engines so that it could return home after taking fire. The Air Force may have wanted to kill off the squadrons in favor of stealth programs, but these planes  worked, and the AF was forced to keep them. We still have them but the tech is obsolete, the planes are old, and they really are being phased out.

The plan was to replace them with F-35s (the one that crashed in South Carolina this week)  but the program has been plagued by problems and delays. and there aren't enough to go around.  The F-35 is operational and impressive, but it has yet to be proven dependable.  The F-35 was intended to be the all-purpose aircraft. There is no other close air-support /ground attack plane on the drawing board.  

This article suggests a solution so original and sensible that I had to read it.

Use the proven all-purpose plane that the Navy and Marines, Australia and Canada already use for ground attack and close air support! I guess they all have their orders in for F-35s, because the Super Hornet line is about to close down, which means it could turn out 24 planes/year for the AF for cheap. The most likely future conflict is against China, possibly N. Korea and the super Hornet is suited to the theater, and the Navy and Australia have established supply chains.

The hornets have advanced tech, but they still have 2 engines, 2 tails, and a Gattling gun, things the warthog pilots are used to. It's an economical way to preserve the experience of the wart hog units while upgrading their capabilities when the planned F-35s didn't materialize. That is if the Air Force doesn't think supporting the US Army, or an allied army is an obsolete mission, and if they can swallow their pride and fly a navy model plane.

[Geo]

The hornets have advanced tech, but they still have 2 engines, 2 tails, and a Gattling gun, things the warthog pilots are used to. It's an economical way to preserve the experience of the wart hog units while upgrading their capabilities when the planned F-35s didn't materialize. That is if the Air Force doesn't think supporting the US Army, or an allied army is an obsolete mission, and if they can swallow their pride and fly a navy model plane.

One thing it doesn't do that A10 pilots might be used to is fly slow. At least as far as I know.
Can be a gamebreaker when in the thick of things.

[Rusty Edge]

I didn't know, so I tried to look it up and convert it/piece it together.

A-10 138 miles per hour

F-18 Super-Hornet  150 mph

F-16 about 230 mph


I agree that flying slow is the critical element.  That's why the A-10s outperform the F-16s in exercises.  I didn't think the stall speed on the hornet was quite that slow, but I suppose it's a design feature for carrier landings.

[Geo]

And then you have dedicated gunships. These days the Russians are using them to effect to defend their trench lines against incoming armor.

[Rusty Edge]

Gunships have their place.

As far as I know it's only when you have air superiority or supremacy.