Centauri Preserves

[Nexii]

It seems in my games that Centauri Preserves aren't cutting ecodamage down when constructed.  This is in bases both with and without Tree Farm + Hybrid Forest.  Anyone else playing with 0 clean minerals and finding the same?

This is my ecodmg section of alphax.txt

8        ; Bonus borehole ecodamage {-32768 to 32767}
6        ; Bonus mirror ecodamage {-32768 to 32767}
4        ; Bonus condenser ecodamage {-32768 to 32767}
0        ; If non-zero, borehole count per base is squared when determining ecodamage {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
0,       ; If non-zero, bonus ecodamage is not affected by PLANET rating or clean minerals {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
0,       ; Starting "clean minerals" {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; CM per fungal pop {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; CM per relevant facility {-32768 to 32767}
1,       ; Extra "virtual minerals" per relevant atrocity/missile {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; If non-zero, fungal pops reduce the effects of atrocities/missiles but do not increase CM {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
0,       ; If non-zero, ecodamage is based off Planet Busters rather than major atrocities {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
16,      ; Mineral divisor for ecodamage (applied before clean minerals) {1 to 32767}
3        ; PLANET multiplier at 0 PLANET rating {-128 to 127}
1        ; Minimum PLANET multiplier {0 to 127}
6        ; Maximum PLANET multiplier {minimum rating to 127}
1000,    ; Ecodamage divisor {1 to over 2 billion}
-1,      ; Extra ecodamage per base {-32768 to 32767}

[Buster's Uncle]

I keep wishing they'd make more of a dent in the ecodamage, but no, they seem to work for me.

[Nexii]

Hmm, curious.  Well if you have Tree Farm + Hybrid in a polluting base, making a Preserve should cut eco damage roughly in half.  But I'm finding it just stays the same.

[Buster's Uncle]

I've never quite understood the ecodamage numbers that display in the base screen.  One min over the limit might get you something in the single digits, but it might edge up over ten, and I'm not sure the Preserve will always reduce it a whole min, IIRC, and contrary to what I've been told, IIRC.  I always see a reduction in that red number on the left, but how much is hard to fathom - is that what you're getting?

Keep in mind that numbers make my eyes glaze over and I'm not a terribly reliable witness, not having played in a few months and not having been looking for this.

But I've been playing with the Mindworms with Minds for about a year - they have a very good Planet rating, but they work so much out of the fungus that they grow to ecodamage levels really quickly, so I've been building a LOT of Preserves - they come with that tech.

[Nexii]

You might see a big jump up from 0 ecodamage to very high ecodamage with clean minerals enabled and relatively low divisors (mineral divisor and ecodamage divisor).  In this case exceeding the clean mineral limit will cause a large amount of ecodamage.

[Yitzi]

Sounds strange...if you provide a copy of the savegame and your alphax.txt, I can investigate.

[Nexii]

See attached - city "The Hive" builds a preserve and goes from 10 to 5 ecodamage.  Note this is due to perihelion ending not due to the preserve

[Yitzi]

See attached - city "The Hive" builds a preserve and goes from 10 to 5 ecodamage.  Note this is due to perihelion ending not due to the preserve

That was a bad example because your high mineral divisor meant that nearly all the ecodamage was due to terraforming, but the bug is real, thanks for catching it, and I'll be putting up the patch shortly.

[Nexii]

Cool thanks.  Yea, you're right.  I think a mineral divisor of around 4 would be better, making it about 50% from terraforming and 50% from minerals in the early to midgame.  Thus increasing ecodamage divisor to 2000 to compensate.  Any lower and I feel like Green starts to become more mandatory than optional...though I'll test this some more.  Might be possible to lower it some.

[Yitzi]

Cool thanks.  Yea, you're right.  I think a mineral divisor of around 4 would be better, making it about 50% from terraforming and 50% from minerals in the early to midgame.  Thus increasing ecodamage divisor to 2000 to compensate.  Any lower and I feel like Green starts to become more mandatory than optional...though I'll test this some more.  Might be possible to lower it some.

Keep in mind that how important Green is still depends a lot on what terraforming you use.  If you use mostly farm/solar, then that's fairly little minerals and not such high terraforming ecodamage (particularly with a tree farm), so you can probably delay Green until you can get hybrid forests, at which point the low mineral income means you might not need it at all.  If, on the other hand, you go for high minerals, Green would become quite important.

[Nexii]

Solar/Echelon/Condensor pollutes about as badly as Forest/Boreholes without TF/HF.  Condensor/Echelon ecodamage is quite high, and keep in mind Forests reduce things slightly.  Ecodamage of Condensors and Echelons could be taken down but TF/HF should be important too, I think.  Unless they should be facilities mainly just for the Forest/Econ/Psych benefits.  Which is arguable since they already do a lot (at a high cost). 

Ecodamage divisor at 1000, and mineral divisor of 4 is feeling closer to how it should be.  Anyone else play around with these settings?