Author Topic: OT: little help with translation needed  (Read 4527 times)

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Offline Kirov

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2016, 07:45:45 PM »
Oh, so you guys are helpful and charge no money? Hm, this sounds like a plan...  ;morganercise

Anyhow, thanks to both of you. ;)

Offline Valka

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2016, 07:56:36 PM »
You're welcome. :)

BUncle, speaking of help, have you voted in the current Iron Pen competition? The poll closes tomorrow.

Offline Buster's Uncle

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Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2016, 08:03:26 PM »
I have not; I'll get on that.

Offline Kirov

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2016, 12:33:41 PM »
And now some PC terminology I need help with:

First of all, could you comment on the differences between various gender grammatical forms? As I understand it, it used to be:

1) When you see a blind person, you should help him or her.

I.e. 'he/she. And nowadays, it tends to be:

2) When you see a blind person, you should help them.

I.e. plural is used to describe singular. It is my impression that option (2) is more PC, 'progressive' and slowly but steadily replaces (1). Can you confirm that or elaborate if this is more complicated?

What are the PC terms for 'blind' and 'deaf'? I know about 'visually/hearing impaired' but I believe these terms are much wider than the former ones, i.e. 'visually impaired' includes both the blind and severe myopia, etc. Yes/no? I'm looking for the terms specifically referring to the blind or deaf people, if there are any more PC than these.

Do you still say 'intellectually challenged'? Right now I think it's passe and sounds like something an older brother could tell you. Is there any other PC term for 'intellectual disability'?

Offline Buster's Uncle

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Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2016, 02:20:46 PM »
Those things are, and always have been, a mess.  In my view, every option you mention for all of those is acceptable and in general I'd tend to go for whichever is shortest and least cumbersome/awkward as better writing style - however, it's highly contextual according to the subject(s) under discussion, the general tone of what's being translated and who's the audience.  People disagree wildly about this stuff.

I'll probably have more when I'm more alert later, and Valka's input on this one ought to be had, I think.  Draz is a good PC perspective if you can get him in here.

Offline Unorthodox

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 02:38:22 PM »
And now some PC terminology I need help with:

First of all, could you comment on the differences between various gender grammatical forms? As I understand it, it used to be:

1) When you see a blind person, you should help him or her.

I.e. 'he/she. And nowadays, it tends to be:

2) When you see a blind person, you should help them.

I.e. plural is used to describe singular. It is my impression that option (2) is more PC, 'progressive' and slowly but steadily replaces (1). Can you confirm that or elaborate if this is more complicated?

https://illinois.edu/blog/view/25/31097

It is mostly just a lazy way of not having to write "his or her".  It's a gap in the English language that goes back to the 1850s.  They/Them/Their is generally accepted but not technically correct.  You should assume "His" if gender is unknown (though certain exceptions), or "His or Her" to be most accurate if pedantic. 

Quote
What are the PC terms for 'blind' and 'deaf'? I know about 'visually/hearing impaired' but I believe these terms are much wider than the former ones, i.e. 'visually impaired' includes both the blind and severe myopia, etc. Yes/no? I'm looking for the terms specifically referring to the blind or deaf people, if there are any more PC than these.

Blind and Deaf are perfectly acceptable provided you're not using them as a derogatory.  ie talking about someone who is figuratively blind. 

Quote
Do you still say 'intellectually challenged'? Right now I think it's passe and sounds like something an older brother could tell you. Is there any other PC term for 'intellectual disability'?

"Mentally Challenged" seems to have replaced "Intellectually" from what I've seen.  However, preferred would seem to be "Name of condition".  "Autistic Spectrum" "Downs" or some such. 

Offline Kirov

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 02:55:08 PM »
Thanks for the link, I'll read it later. As far as I see, the plural seems to be used in hyper-PC environment, which is the thing I'm going for here - I'm translating a manual called Anti-Discrimination Activities in Polish Law Enforcement for the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights at the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, so you can imagine this is supposed to be as PC and progressive as they come.

Most of the time, I can navigate with the plural, but sometimes I'm confused as to sentences like:

"Every person, regardless of their sex, have their own traits and skills (...)"

Is it fine? Because it looks soo not fine to a non-native speaker. :)

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Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2016, 03:53:20 PM »
It looks terrible to a native too, but that is how one does it - English just doesn't that gender-neutral singular pronoun and we have to make do ignoring that 'they' and 'their' are plural.  Avoiding pronouns and just being repetitive using the noun is often a superior, if still awkward, style approach, but not always feasible, either.

Offline Unorthodox

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2016, 04:24:09 PM »
"Has his or her own traits" would also be acceptable, but gets really annoying when you have multiple sentences formatted that way.   

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Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2016, 05:16:03 PM »
BTW, in the example "Every person, regardless of their sex, have their own traits and skills (...)", you can just drop the first 'their' and change 'sex' to 'gender' and you're set.  Still good English style w/o the pronoun.  -Possibly in place of "Every person", "Each person" or just "People" or "Everyone", altering "have" to "has" if so.  -I think "have" is wrong, in fact - subject-verb agreement.

Offline Valka

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2016, 05:18:31 PM »
And now some PC terminology I need help with:

First of all, could you comment on the differences between various gender grammatical forms? As I understand it, it used to be:

1) When you see a blind person, you should help him or her.

I.e. 'he/she. And nowadays, it tends to be:

2) When you see a blind person, you should help them.

I.e. plural is used to describe singular. It is my impression that option (2) is more PC, 'progressive' and slowly but steadily replaces (1). Can you confirm that or elaborate if this is more complicated?

What are the PC terms for 'blind' and 'deaf'? I know about 'visually/hearing impaired' but I believe these terms are much wider than the former ones, i.e. 'visually impaired' includes both the blind and severe myopia, etc. Yes/no? I'm looking for the terms specifically referring to the blind or deaf people, if there are any more PC than these.

Do you still say 'intellectually challenged'? Right now I think it's passe and sounds like something an older brother could tell you. Is there any other PC term for 'intellectual disability'?

This is a failing of the English language that didn't used to be considered a failing because of sexism (or so I perceive it). The default used to be masculine pronouns, but that's not considered acceptable anymore, at least in some contexts. "Him or her" and "he or she" are awkward, so some people get around that by using the word "them." But that's also awkward because things can get confusing if you're only talking about one person.

Personally I use "him/her" or "(s)he" to refer to only one person. I think in this specific instance, you could use "them" as it should be obvious that you're speaking in a general sense and not about one specific blind person.

"Blind" and "deaf" are acceptable terms, but keep in mind that some people may not be totally blind but still need help (and the same for deaf people).

"Intellectually challenged" is not acceptable. The immediate connotation is that referring to someone as "intellectually challenge" is just another way of saying the person is stupid.

"Mentally challenged" is marginally better, but as stated upthread, it would be better to specify if you're talking about cognitively-impaired people (ie. someone who has suffered a brain injury), someone with autism, Down Syndrome, etc.

Offline DrazharLn

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2016, 06:16:15 PM »
With agender people, etc, there's arguably a need for a proper non-gendered pronoun, but all the ones I've tried are a bit awkward. You can get used to them pretty quickly, though (one of A Reynolds' recent books has a person of indeterminate gender referred to as Xe).

In some contexts, it is more appropriate to use She as the pronoun for a person of unknown gender. This is common in much contemporary scientific literature but will likely annoy some social conservatives.

Offline Kirov

Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2016, 06:33:17 PM »
In some contexts, it is more appropriate to use She as the pronoun for a person of unknown gender. This is common in much contemporary scientific literature but will likely annoy some social conservatives.

Oh, I forgot about the 'she-only' option. Is it getting any traction? I love to piss off social conservatives, they are so cute when their faces become so red and bulging, you half want to put a needle to them. ;)

Anyhow, thank you very much, everyone!  ;b;

Offline Buster's Uncle

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Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2016, 06:35:22 PM »
A word in general on PC that may not be of much bearing, but background: Draz, for example, tells me not to refer to him as "the English kid" and it would be rude of me not to do that courtesy, and so it's "the British kid".  That's it in a nutshell, and the social conservatives have trouble seeing past whatever the PC term is being almost invariably an awkward jaw-breaker to it being a courtesy issue that decent folk ought to observe.

In fact, I'll usually say "black" instead of "African-American" more because the former is one syllable and less letters than because the latter is just god-awful and lame, for all that I acknowledge the thinking behind it and agree - BUT which of them I choose to use is highly dependent on the context, and one should always go to the extra trouble in delicate conversations and according to who's listening, etc.  It's just polite to call people what they want to be called, whether you like it or not.

It's just polite, and manners are underrated in our degenerate, falling, western civilization, all the rudeness everywhere being one of the tells.  I try to be polite, at least civil, depending on the situation.  -For one thing, the British Kid might jump my poop when I'm not...

Offline Buster's Uncle

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Re: OT: little help with translation needed
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2016, 07:02:46 PM »
-Note, BTW, that I'm a good source on English writing style tips -if not actual rules because I slept through those classes and am not good at explaining the rules, having a good grasp but being weak on the vocabulary- but my perspective on current events and/or politics is not to be taken as typically American, because I'm not typically ANYthing...

 

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