Would anyone like a waterworld game CMNed?

[ete]

I've got a few ideas in mind for a largely aquatic map designed for MP use, but it'd be good to know if anyone wants to try a game like that before making it. My most recent game is 70-90% water with 7 custom aquatic factions, and.. it's really interesting to see how development works on water. You've got a whole new set of terraforming and a lot of beelines/key builder aims shift around (for example trawlers cost a lot more, tree farms are useless, but it's really easy to get a huge amount of nuts/eng after those restrictions go). Militarily, there's also a whole new set of strategies which I *think* will significantly dilute air power as an aggressive option, though it'd still be amazing defensively.

Anyway, there's aquatic versions of all the official factions ready made, plus the pirates, plus a handful of custom factions (more coming soon) if both players want to include those too (if players want custom, I'll go through each and try to balance them better than current).

I'll draw a basic plan for the map later.

So... anyone up for a game?

[Kirov]

You mean an MP game? I always felt naval strategies would be much more useful and interesting if not for the OP air power. Count me in.

One sidenote: I love the MCC and I believe in all-aquatic games it can be potentially game-breaking. I suggest getting rid of it for this purpose. Seriously, +2 movement on sea makes it much better than the CBA in regular games.

[ete]

MP, yep. And yea, I could see MCC getting banned, though the free naval yards everywhere would be a big part of it. And yea, with all bases/critical infrastructure vulnerable to naval attack I could see a lot of war going on before air becomes an issue.

[Kataphraktoi]

Im interested in this game, a waterworld PBEM is something i havnt played before.

Indeed +2 movement speed is a massive benefit from MCC, i support the ban.

Lets talk faction choice My first inclination is to go with a high industry faction to offset the high cost of naval units and speed things up a bit;Free Drones, Hive. A planet bonus faction would be excellent, as naval combat has that 1:1 base combat odds against psi. Im assuming Pirates are off the table, the naval yards and +1mineral on sea shelf could be decisive when the opponent isnt on land himself. Or something else entirely?

[ete]

Cool, got the players already . I'm going to be away entirely for a week, then low activity for probably another week, and I'd like to spend at least 4-6 hours map building so it'll probably be a while before we start up, but in the mean time it'd be good to debate the rules and stuff (multifaction is an option (2-3 factions per player), as is having AIs around, do you want to take turns picking factions or both pick at same time and allow duplicate factions? Could even do something fun like give an AI the MCC+CBA at the start and just ban you two from taking that base/make you burn it down right away if you do.), and give me any mapmaking suggestions you want. Also play a few practice games with various aquatic factions http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Aquatic_factions find there and download here: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=4221.0

Native strategies are surprisingly good due to IoDs and their contents, and the general lack of easy minerals/cost of units. Something to bear in mind for your faction choices . And maybe Morgan is less awesome due to plentiful nutrients for growth and morgan's low base size limit.

As for the Pirates, bear in mind that the +1 mins per square and ability to terraform deep water with adv eco eng is an attribute of the Aquatic bonus, so every faction will get that. I'd see the Pirates as a particularly aggressive faction in this, but their growth and effic may make them balanced. The free naval yards are a big deal, and getting marine detachment free is also nice, but both those things can be bought by other factions.

[Earthmichael]

What if all of the factions were Pirates, and the goal is to become the King of the Pirates, by either conquest or vote?

If playing a water scenario, I would almost certainly favor taking the Pirates faction, although I could see the appeal of Gaia or Prophets for capturing IOD.

[Kataphraktoi]

The nautilus pirates -growth is one of those really crippling penalties though, making pop booming very hard to do. Im not sure free naval yards and a few other minor things would be enough to make them a strong choice here.

[Geo]

Tempted to join...

[ete]

If there's 4+ people we can split it lots of ways, either two games of two people, or possibly a larger game though those have a tendency to be slow/not finish. Probably best to match up the most experienced people with eachother if possible, and people who want multifaction or single faction with likeminded players. Post what kind of setup you each want (multi/single faction, AI/no AI, copter or other bans/rules) and your experience level .

[Geo]

If four is too big a group, never mind me. 

[Kataphraktoi]

I would love to have you onboard with a 4 player game geo 
Ete the 4 player game indeed has a poor track record but 3 of the 4 players here are longterm vets(geo=geomodder right?) and earthmicheal(apologies if i should know you from apolyton) looks to be around to stay as well. Im always a sucker for trying yet another PBEM  Its up to you as CMN and the other players i suppose.

[Buster's Uncle]

Well, I'd point out that everyone who's expressed interest is a regular who comes by the site multiple times a day lately.  There is never zero risk, but I think it's low for these four.

[Geo]

Okay. 
Besides a week vacation late November, early December, I shouldn't be away from my (gaming) desktop for the next 2-3 seasons for longer then 2 days in a row.

I have no objections to removing the MCC from this game. But how about getting rid of (some) other Projects giving free facilities?
Choppers are IMO less of a hassle on a watermap. Naval units have more moves then land units so more chance 'landed' choppers get sunk after an attack. But I wouldn't mind them having less moves, and perhaps switch them with the needle tech slot (or the needles moving to orbital or something). Just thinking out loud here.
I prefer single faction. And if this becomes a game with 4 human players, how about the AI's being 'alien' factions (or the other way around)?

Oh, and I'll need an update on "Strictly Forbidden Stuff" and "What Certainly Not To Do" since it's been a long time since I've participated in a SMACX PBEM, and things have become hazy.

[Buster's Uncle]

This probably needs updating, but http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1519.0

[Earthmichael]

If there's 4+ people we can split it lots of ways, either two games of two people, or possibly a larger game though those have a tendency to be slow/not finish. Probably best to match up the most experienced people with eachother if possible, and people who want multifaction or single faction with likeminded players. Post what kind of setup you each want (multi/single faction, AI/no AI, copter or other bans/rules) and your experience level .

I think a 4 faction game is max.

I would just as soon not have AI players.  They either are designed to cheat badly so that it is a struggle to overcome that AI players, to the point that it distracts from the main players, or the AI players are set "Normal" and then become a resource for the closest player to seize.

Are we looking at a free for all, or two factions verses two factions?

For general rules, I like to ban atrocities, and to play with a patch to remove rising water.  I have written a lot about why I like to ban atrocities, so I won't repeat it here, and rising water is just a boring micromanagement problem that I would just as soon not deal with.

I also think the multi-attack capability of copters was never accounted for in the cost of copters, and given that it gives an advantage over all other sea units (none of which can multi-attack regardless of how many movement points are left), I would rather just ban copters.  Otherwise, copters will be the dominant unit, because of the free multi-attack.

I think all 4 factions playing pirates would be fun.  Otherwise, if we are teaming up, I find that the most effective pairs are a researcher and a builder.  So someone like Hive/Free Drones paired with Uni/Cycon are some of the strongest pairs I have seen, but I could see other pairs potentially being useful depending upon the circumstances.  Gaia could be helpful if there are lots of IOD to capture.

I was initially thinking of a 4 player pirate free for all, but I am open to any ideas.