Alternate original seven faction mod

[Sigma]

As someone who plays the University a lot, removing the Network Nodes from their bonuses is sort of crippling; as it is you're reducing their research to +1, so they're barely going to have an edge in that area vs the rest of the factions. It also sort of defeats their mission statement of pursuing pure research.

[Geo]

It looks like (one of) the underlying emphasis(es) is to let factions thrive on social benefits alone. For instance, the Hive has lots its free perimeter defenses as well.

[Dio]

However, the loss of network nodes could be partly covered by the inclusion of a labs bonus at each base. I think this is more balanced because it does not stack as much with other bonuses.

[Dio]

It was never my intention to not use the free facility faction bonus. However, I wanted to use it differently than how it is with the original seven factions. For example, I might give the university free skunkworks to show that they readily improvise materials while doing research and development.

[Dio]

Another reason I came here was that I had hit a mental . This tends to make me .

[Buster's Uncle]

If you wanted people to kick ideas around with, you've come to the right place.

[Dio]

If you are correct, then I will throw some idea's around.

First, I felt that the believer's getting a social bonus to probe makes no sense. What is it about their faction that would increase their security measures? Instead I was thinking she should get a bonus to something like planet or talent.

Second, why would the hive get industry and growth? A bonus to Growth is represented mechanically as a reduction in the number of nutrients required for a base to grow. As for Industry, morgan seem like a more logical choice than the hive because their bases are all companies.

Now I thought the Hive should get Probe and Police because they are "security minded" and want to"properly control their followers"

I agreed with the efficency bonus for the gaians but was undecided on their second bonus. I thought Growth would fit well because of her background in agriculture and biology.

The peacekeepers should probably get a bonus to Talent. Beyond that I am uncertain.

So what do you guys think?

[Buster's Uncle]

It makes sense that a society of True Believers would be difficult for intelligence agents to penetrate -fanatics would be tough to subvert or interrogate, thus the probe bonus- but those same Believers would not tend to better spies themselves, being weirdoes by outsider standards.  No idea what the best way to deal with that is.

A smart and credible take on the Hive I've read had them rather True Believers themselves - the population is devoted to the leader and the group, and the ideas and ideals thereof.  They derive from an east Asian cultural tradition, with all that implies.  They work furiously, are shy about asserting their personal, individual needs, and demand less a minimum of resources diverted to personal/individual comfort.  So in that light, industry and growth make sense.  My only quibble is wondering at how Yang was able to recruit/train a populace with such a perfect culture/world view/belief system for making his system work so well, as it's far beyond any Earth culture in innate suitability for making his authoritarian system work.

For a green faction, the Gaians are already improbably good at pop-booming.  Lots of babies eat lots of food and take lots of space and make lots of poop - greens ought to be rather adverse to quick growth, or they're really crappy greens.

[Dio]

You make a good point about the Gaian's and population growth. In the case of the believer's, how does giving them immunity to Mindcontrol and a bonus to Growth sound? In regards to the spartan's, I felt they should get a bonus not only to Morale but also something like support. The university was obviously overused in the original SMAC. However, I think they should have reduced hurry costs.

[Buster's Uncle]

I think with the Believers, you think about family values and discourage birth control, and you get big families.  Easy to justify Growth.  Likewise immunity to mind control, as Miriam already stitched that one up.

Makes sense for Spartans and University.

[Sigma]

If you are correct, then I will throw some idea's around.

First, I felt that the believer's getting a social bonus to probe makes no sense. What is it about their faction that would increase their security measures? Instead I was thinking she should get a bonus to something like planet or talent.

Second, why would the hive get industry and growth? A bonus to Growth is represented mechanically as a reduction in the number of nutrients required for a base to grow. As for Industry, morgan seem like a more logical choice than the hive because their bases are all companies.

Now I thought the Hive should get Probe and Police because they are "security minded" and want to"properly control their followers"

I agreed with the efficency bonus for the gaians but was undecided on their second bonus. I thought Growth would fit well because of her background in agriculture and biology.

The peacekeepers should probably get a bonus to Talent. Beyond that I am uncertain.

So what do you guys think?

The Hive's bonus to Growth is due to the fact that Yang is from China and in the 90s the common perspective that people had on China was rooted in their massive population growth. Moreover Yang is a social engineer and it would be in the interests of his social experiments to encourage his citizens to reproduce. The industry bonus is a consequence of that-- more people means more workers, and Yang doesn't really have any compunctions against working his people to the bone ("What do I care for your suffering? Pain is nothing more than information before the senses.")

[Dio]

Your take on why they did it originally makes sense. However, that arguement falls apart when it comes to that perpection in the 90's. I know that the chinese single child policy has been in effect since the late 70's in order to help control population growth. On a related point, in game, it always seemed odd that yang never got any inherent bonuses related to police, especially since the faction's original descriptive adjective was the big brother.

[Dio]

Sorry if I came across as being snide in some of my previous posts. I must say that I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read and/or respond to my posts.

[JarlWolf]

Nah, it's all good. One of the main reasons why, in terms of the Hive at least, why Firaxis didn't give them a Police bonus is because they intended Police State to be chosen, and while the Hive is quite authoritarian the faction ideal is that of social experimentation: Yang is trying to find the perfect society, utopia through social engineering. He legitimately does want to create a paradise, a utopia for him and his followers; it's just that he realizes in order to find it he must experiment to find the correct conditions to determine what is best for him and his people. And that he must also control his followers better then the other factions do, as for as long as they exist his quest for utopia will not be left alone and will be constantly interfered with.

So in short, he's very open to all sort of societies except democratic: which goes against his control, which he see's must be as a constant in his experimentation, and for it to work properly.

[Buster's Uncle]

Good stuff - the Yang we hear in tech quotes is more than JUST a callous dictator - he's a man in search of perfection, both personal and in the shape of his society.  He obviously fascinated by human limits, and finding a way past them.  One could easily imagine his ideas taking a slightly different shape.