Faction pack planning

[ete]

Depending on how my other current projects go, I may be around here again for a while in the not too distant future (probably early august, but maybe a few days before that). My likely main priority will be setting up a faction pack download which includes not just all the NN factions, but the other ones I've been able to track down and the ones which have recently been created, and make it so the faction pack can be updated reasonably easily.

Additionally, I'd like to fix the most blatant bugs (document undocumented features, add missing documented bonuses, fix text files which crash the game) and do a little balancing work while retaining as much of the spirit of the original design as possible (basically, create a balanced version of as many of the factions as possible, included along with the original where the original was intended to be unbalanced). The old plan for community custom faction balancing with lots of votes and debate kinda fizzled out, so while I'll be looking for input for fixes I'll be more inclined to just write up my reasoning and make changes rather than waiting for feedback (though of course original authors who are still available get the final say, and I'll avoid making controversial changes even to the balanced versions).

I'll be working on wiki and with the set of custom faction files I've got on my google drive, and would encourage active faction editors to participate in the project by adding their faction files to the database and helping fix problems with existing custom factions once this gets rolling. Anyone else up for it?

[Buster's Uncle]

...I'm game for art fixes; plenty of factions out there with no art at all, for that matter, which I consider a substantial flaw...

[ete]

That would be great too, I'll set up a system for easily classifying what needs what art fixes (if/when I'm focusing on this).

[Buster's Uncle]

I can slap an entire faction graphic together in a couple of hours if you catch me in the right mood and I'm not too picky - 'cause after all, a mediocre original graphic is still far better than more Dierdre and Yang and Domai, and I can do mediocre in my sleep.

Replacing a logo and small jobs of that sort is nothing.  I got my start doing that kind of thing.

[JarlWolf]

Likewise I can do faction graphics. I personally refuse to create a faction if I can't flesh them out properly with their own logo's, bases and leaderheads, because the stats make the faction work, but the graphics it has is what truly makes a faction stand out as unique.

[ete]

Cool, graphics is my weakest point so help with those (including organizing which factions need what attention) would be great.

[JarlWolf]

Mhm. I am not as good with sifting and searching through factions as I am not link smart and other such things with Centauri factions and where they hide at. If factions are given to me to improve upon directly to me I'll get straight to work.

[Kilkakon]

Hopefully you don't suffer from the usual thing that we sometimes get into which is trying to forumbalance a single faction at a time for weeks. :O It's hard to have them all be fair and yet still be community.

[ete]

From now on I'll be playing SMAX with a copy on my Google Drive, which means when I make changes to a faction they'll appear directly on the public copy of all the custom factions here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxADYlhLMFj-aFZST1lMZ1d1MGc&usp=sharing#list

This means that rather than updating two copies, I have to update one. I am working on something similar which will allow wiki .txt pages to be automatically updated, this page gives an example of how it will function: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Vanguard_of_the_New_World/van.txt

Basically, this is still happening. I've been figuring out how to handle things properly and am getting there.

Something which would help me significantly would be a fully patched set of official faction text files, since I'm fairly sure mine include some bugs.


Also note that I've set a standard for naming the text files of intentionally overpowered factions: Use exactly the same name followed by a +, for example my copy of the Data Angels (angels.txt) with techshare 1 rather than 3 becomes angels+.txt, with the ingame visible faction name remaining the Data Angels. When making these alternate versions, remember to edit the #ANGELS line near the top to include the + else it will not load properly.

If making intentionally underpowered factions, use - rather than +, and if making another tier of extreme power above the normally overpowered version use ++ (and -- for extremely underpowered, etc).

In the faction pack all factions not carefully balanced with respect to the originals included in the Quality section will need a + or -.

[Green1]

I think between some of our current stuff and reworked Network Node stuff, we have several things to choose from.

I think that like SMAX, it should be 2 aliens and 5 humans. All must fit story and be well done. They should be somewhat balanced (but balance should not be the end all and be all) and I should be able to show up with one to the Command Nexus with one and not be laughed at.

There are two I think deserve special notice:

Jarlwolf's Crimson Comrades. Much missing ideology from SMAC and SMAX. Good balance as is.
Antimind. Good Alien concept. A little OP, but I say leave it AS IS.

I do not think anyone would have issues if I nominated those 2.

[JarlWolf]

There are two I think deserve special notice:

Jarlwolf's Crimson Comrades. Much missing ideology from SMAC and SMAX. Good balance as is.
Antimind. Good Alien concept. A little OP, but I say leave it AS IS.

I do not think anyone would have issues if I nominated those 2.

[ete]

This faction pack will not be seven limited, for reasons I explained here: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3937.msg25836#msg25836

It will use the two pack model, one large pack of everything, one small pack with only quality factions. I hope to include as many quality balanced factions as possible in the smaller pack.

Nominations and discussion for factions to include in the quality pack are welcome, however a prerequisite for that is a properly balanced version of that faction being available. As for the two you suggested, the AntiMind's base state is extremely far from balanced, and in my experience the CCs are significantly above original factions in most situations (in human hands they're very good, and the AI plays them unusually well) due to their having only one notable drawback (lack of +1 Eng/Square is important, but -1 Probe is minor), one huge bonus (hardly ever having to pay support), two important advantages that work well with their other attributes (+2 Morale for well trained army and no Native problems, and being able to run Planned without problem lategame more than makes up for not being able to run FM). Both are good and interesting factions however and I would like to include them in the quality pack at some point in both a full monster and more balanced form.

[JarlWolf]

The Comrade's only have 1+ Morale, not 2. And the probe is really underestimated: It means that CC probes aren't as effective/ they are more vulnerable to probes. I've seen the AI use probe teams rather well, sabotaging and stealing tech constantly. Of course I as a player developed countermeasures to probes, but watching the AI and the CC as AI I've noticed it.

Also, balanced factions for customs are ones that can still play and be beaten by originals. It does not mean they have to be completely equal to an original.

Anti-mind is a monster, But I'd say the Crimson Comrades are fairly balanced, they'd lose a lot of their character if their support or other things were nerfed, and be significantly weaker. I tested by lowering support and they lose a lot of their teeth, almost to the point where a faction like the Believers, a fairly strong vanilla faction, can just rip out their liver and beat them with it.

[ete]

They have +1 Morale SE and a one stage morale modifier, which is actually significantly better than plain +2 Morale.

The effect of -1 Probe is: 25% cheaper to mind control units and bases, and that's it apparently:

Negative PROBE rating only affects the price of mind controlled stuff, I just checked it to make sure. Interesting sidenote: it seems that the AI is less likely to go vendetta if you sabotage its facilities ("something something I don't condone industrial sabotage").

Its not totally irrelevant, but it's tiny compared to the advantages of the faction.

I do agree that reducing the core advantage (+3 Support) would be bad since that's what makes the faction unique and fun to play, my feeling is just that major bonuses like that need something to balance them out which the CCs don't really have. Removing the morale modifier so there's just +1 Morale would definitely help, as would replacing the -1 Economy (which does a grand total of -1 energy per turn, irrelevant after the first few bases) with a more serious penalty, or swapping/increasing the Probe one though you seem quite attached to it. An alternate way to go about it would be to remove/reduce its secondary benefits, for example by removing Impunity: Planned or swapping it for Robust: Efficiency, or moving the Penalty Free Market onto a SE choice which it can/may want to use (SE settings I'd possibly want as them: Knowledge, Democratic, Power, none of which fits that well with a penalty flavorwise).

[JarlWolf]

When I made the penalty I was still pretty green at making factions, so if it went for penalty: Wealth or penalty Fundamentalism that would probably be better, and still retain the character.