JUST SUPPOSE...

[Rusty Edge]

Just suppose you had a terrible crime in your community. In response, everybody supported a big bond issue for a beefed up, state of the art police department. All is well for a while.

Then, to everyone's surprise, you learn that while the police were busy bending the rules to keep a close eye on everyone in your community as possible suspects, the police station itself was robbed.  Would you have faith in the chief? The department ?  Would you feel re-assured if the chief told you it was an inside job? Or would you say it's time to clean house?

Just suppose it wasn't your community, but your country. Not the police, but the NSA. Not property, but information.


Now what are the chances that the NSA hasn't been compromised by the Chinese?

[Buster's Uncle]

I suppose that the police in my home town have been notoriously crap since before I was born, and no way do I ever support giving those clowns any jot or tittle more power.  This is the literal truth, not a metaphor.

I also suppose that Bakrama has turned out to be the wrong guy at the wrong time; I never really drank the koolaide about the man in the first place, and still, he keeps disappointing me.

[Rusty Edge]

I'm not blaming the Chief-in-Chief for this one ....
Some presidents ( Lyndon and Jimmy, for example )are micro managers, but Barrack ain't one of them. Just not his style.

I'd lay it on the National Security Advisor. 

Of course I'd argue that the Patriot act itself is an unconstitutional infringement on the fourth amendment, and not valid unless and until it goes through the constitutional ratification process.

Ultimately, every federal elected official is responsible, because their oath of office is to the Constitution.



Me, I'd start over with a new agency . I think there's a better chance of increasing with a smaller entity that has their aim on low hanging fruit.  Watching guys on student visas that don't go to class, for example. That might have prevented 911 and the Boston bombings. Oh well...   

Purging a behemoth with a big budget that can't secure itself,,,  unlikely.

[Buster's Uncle]

I blame Bakrama - he has failed to undo the excesses of the Bush occupation, and failed to lead.  The buck stops there.

[Green1]

Sometimes we fail to see the larger picture. We have drones.

While there is always "crime", most of the time when a population is busy with things like work and everyone has basically what they need and are happy you have no crime. Yeah, you do get the occasional homicidal maniac. But, actual cold blooded murderers and rapists are a VERY small portion of the population.

When you have a society where you have just a few people obscenely rich while a large majority must pay everything they make just not to have to live outside, it increases crime.

Drugs and such are closely related to this. The rich man can have a fulfilling life producing endorphins from tennis and healthy activities and gets respect to make him feel good. The poor man is stressed, often working under threats from landlords (who DO NOT have to work, yet make money) and abusive employers. Drugs make this go away (at least at first until they get addicted to the nastier ones). Most of the crime is from the prohibition of drugs. Now the rich man's kids do drugs, too. But, they will not get caught. Hell, the cops do not even have to cruise that neighborhood. But the cops hover over the poor and working class neighborhoods like vultures, waiting to kidnap and ransom anyone who meets a "profile". Afterwards, the poor man has a "mark" and is unemployable except for the most menial jobs. The rich kid just pays his dad's buddy's lawyer off, and hello medical/law/MBA school.

This will be the case whether it's Bush, Obama, or whoever.  As long as you have Drones, you will have Drone Riots

 

[Geo]

As long as you have Drones, you will have Drone Riots

Amen! 

[Yitzi]

Sometimes we fail to see the larger picture. We have drones.

While there is always "crime", most of the time when a population is busy with things like work and everyone has basically what they need and are happy you have no crime. Yeah, you do get the occasional homicidal maniac. But, actual cold blooded murderers and rapists are a VERY small portion of the population.

When you have a society where you have just a few people obscenely rich while a large majority must pay everything they make just not to have to live outside, it increases crime.

Drugs and such are closely related to this. The rich man can have a fulfilling life producing endorphins from tennis and healthy activities and gets respect to make him feel good. The poor man is stressed, often working under threats from landlords (who DO NOT have to work, yet make money) and abusive employers. Drugs make this go away (at least at first until they get addicted to the nastier ones). Most of the crime is from the prohibition of drugs. Now the rich man's kids do drugs, too. But, they will not get caught. Hell, the cops do not even have to cruise that neighborhood. But the cops hover over the poor and working class neighborhoods like vultures, waiting to kidnap and ransom anyone who meets a "profile". Afterwards, the poor man has a "mark" and is unemployable except for the most menial jobs. The rich kid just pays his dad's buddy's lawyer off, and hello medical/law/MBA school.

This will be the case whether it's Bush, Obama, or whoever.  As long as you have Drones, you will have Drone Riots

The question is...is the +2 ECONOMY worth it?

[Green1]

The question is...is the +2 ECONOMY worth it?

Well, depends on who you ask. If you are a "talent", it most definitely is.

But, this is where the Alpha Centauri analogy breaks down. Under Free Market, you have talents, but talents actually work and do things, so talents are not really a source of drones. Civ games are missing one class of people: those with vast resources that do nothing - an upper class. The wealthy do not necessarily have to be talented, or for that matter, even need to keep good social skills. They just need to hire someone that does. Each one creates drones because it takes a vast number of poor folks to make one wealthy person. Where are those guys on my city screen? Can I nerve staple them? Or just nerve staple the ones that do not give back or help my society? There are some good rich folks and some greedy ones that are sociopathic. Funny thing is, free market encourages sociopathy to some extent. If even the "good" well-to-do folks slack, they can be overrun by those who are even more aggressive  and cut throat.

[Geo]

Civ games are missing one class of people: those with vast resources that do nothing - an upper class. The wealthy do not necessarily have to be talented, or for that matter, even need to keep good social skills. They just need to hire someone that does. Each one creates drones because it takes a vast number of poor folks to make one wealthy person.

CiV seems to rectify that for ya: Tourism! 

[Buster's Uncle]

Seems like we're getting a bit off topic...

[Yitzi]

Not really...we're taking the natural analogy for this forum, and applying it to the issues being discussed in this thread.

[Unorthodox]

Since I always avoid all news while I'm travelling, and thus I'm 10+ days out of touch...someone got a cliff notes? 

[Buster's Uncle]

Bakrama gave a speech defending the NSA spying on everyone's phones last weekend.  Some dude had blown the whistle on the surveillance and fled to Hong Kong - his girlfriend allegedly looks good in her underwear.

[Unorthodox]

Tapping everyone's phones was a secret to begin with?

[Buster's Uncle]

Yeah, I'd just assumed all this time - but now it's one less thing they're not even bothering to pretend we're not a police state over...