pandora update

[BlaneckW]

I wasn't sure if you guys are following Pandora (I'm not, I was just looking for something to do before going to bed). 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdaoLKHxJDo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdaoLKHxJDo</a>

https://www.facebook.com/notes/slitherine-ltd/through-the-keyhole-may-31st-2013/531954540198608

I find it unfortunate that they don't have a more open forum/registration process. I'm still not likely to buy it with the information given. The video and article are on the tech tree. Or, at least the article sort of is, the video just shows that a tech tree exists.

Keeping the tech tree unknown (other than something on combat levels) really isn't selling the game to me, but then, that will eventually be reported on some gameFAQ. Alpha Centauri had an interesting tech tree; the tech tree itself made for good stategy. Telling "how the tech tree works", does not mean that the tech tree interesting. I understand that things are in flux before the release, but unless they can one-up it in other areas than the unit workshop or even combat, I'm not bothering.

By itself, I already have enough wargames, and I'm sorry to say I've played enough Alpha Centauri (they compare it to Civ 5, which I didn't even bother buying). Not that I wouldn't buy a new-and-improved AC. but I doubt that they can give the game any flavour without a Brian Reynolds (does a game without flavour manage to have an interesting tech tree?). Frankly I'd be more interested if they started babbling philosophy. AC may not have quoted a library worth of books, but it did turn me on to Han Fei.  As for Kant, well....

[Green1]

I agree with you. For me, this is a wait and see type thing. I also have a bit of wargames that have taken up space on my hard drive, so it has got to appeal to me.

But then again, beta is beta. Depending on how early it is in beta, they themselves probably do not know what is going to be left in.

And, no.... I am not going to be volunteer QA for any game. I think people should get PAID to do betas, not the other way around in some cases.

[BlaneckW]

I don't get the impression that they have the money for that sort of thing.  I'd rather they pay people who know books to come in and make their game interesting.  If they have any kind of government feature at all, it ought to be based on ideas, and this is something that can be improved from AC without making it too complicated for simple-minded people.  AC had real-world philosophy in the character of Yang, and knew what it was doing with the other factions too; Zakarov had drones because it's focus on labs was done at the expense of utilizing the majority of it's citizenry. 

Other designers would not have been able to make as intelligent factions.  The expansion cybernetics faction is a failure; the negative growth makes it a bunk faction.  The expansion also tried to include an industrialistic democratic socialist faction, but mostly it just ends up spamming synthemetals unless it gets a lucky position.  Angels is pointless, it's function easily replaceable by believers and morganites (and what kind of idiot plays RPGs while mind worms crawl at the door?).

Take the "imperium" faction in the screenshot.  Does this have any philosophy behind it that was applied in real-world governments, or is it just a generalized category?  There's lots of games out there I can tickle my brain with bull[poop]fights between red and blue (the SUCH and SUCH, the BLAH BLAH), I see it in ads for online games all the time (which never have any information on their game on the home page!  I'm just supposed hand out my information, which slitherine also wants a bit too much of).

But then, if they want to sell me a wargame AC look-alike, I will buy it for 20$.  I appreciate pittance effort with "sci-fi atmosphere!"  But then, I might just play HOI2 and EU3 for my wargame fix.  I also have some sci-fi novels with concepts that might be less concocted.  Good authors.   So you have four weapon types; how about... [fuddle-duddle] you?  I have battle island waiting for me on GOG, haven't played it yet.

[Buster's Uncle]

This doesn't sound promising...

[BlaneckW]

I don't mind if they make verbatim clones of AC factions (some of them are obvious), but let them one-up the gaians by finding an interesting real-life agronomy quote.  For that matter, put agronomy somewhere in the tech tree.

But to tell you the truth, If I was to make AC2, I'd get rid of the factions feature.  Select ideologies or aspects of ideologies over the course of the game.

But currently, there isn't evidence that this one even has "social engineering".

[Buster's Uncle]

It sounds like they've gotten enough basic structure working to start adding the kind of grace notes (story and personality) that made SMAC(X) great.  I'm not holding my breath, but not abandoning all hope yet, either.  [shrugs]  Maybe they'll get it right before they release.

I don't believe it either...

[BlaneckW]

I don't get the impression they have the team or the money.

But something I hadn't considered, if they make the game modable enough, maybe we can make an AC2 out of it, in terms of it not just being a war game (I'd be able to help with ancient Chinese ideology :p).  I'd find it ridiculous to pay 50$ for a graphical chasis with an updated combat system, but the price would go down after awhile.

So maybe you guys could be discussing AC2 after all, unless they're asses and make it unmoddable.

[Buster's Uncle]

We certainly have a deep bench of modders who know what they're doing...

[BlaneckW]

Maybe shiny new graphics and combat gimmick is the hit Alpha Centauri needs.

[Buster's Uncle]

[shrugs] Could be.

[Geo]

For sure! 
(At least if you want to attract a larger part of the newcoming gamer base)

[Buster's Uncle]

IF they're cool, sure.

[Green1]

Well, the selling point for many games nowadays IS the mods available for them, if it is moddable at all.

I personally think they should at some point instead of Civ X, Fallen Enchantress, Total War, Warlock, Age of Empires, Age of Wonders, etc just come out with a badass vanilla wargame construction set that is complex but can do anything. Forget about this flavor or that flavor. You know folks would eat that stuff up.

...but no one has done anything close to that to my knowledge since Roger Damon's Wargame Construction Set. And, those tools were lackluster even on an ancient system like the Commodore 64.

[BlaneckW]

\
...but no one has done anything close to that to my knowledge since Roger Damon's Wargame Construction Set. And, those tools were lackluster even on an ancient system like the Commodore 64.

That was excellent, disproving your own point.

[Green1]

Not disproving... just a honest assessment of the last real attempt (as far as I know) of what I think would be great for the 4x community as a whole.