Star Wars VII-IX, what do you think?

[bvanevery]

In the original theatrical release -I'm older than either of you- Vader was shown spinning away for a slit second after the Falcon's intervention.  I believe him stabilizing and flying off was a very early Lucas edit/fiddle.

That doesn't shock me, because I do have a memory of wondering in my childhood, whether Vader lived or died.  And then at some point there was this new "spinning off" thing, and it was odd to me that there wasn't any question anymore.

[Buster's Uncle]

Back in 1976(7?), I sorta assumed he died - I do remember actually wondering at the time.

[bvanevery]

But they could have shown the interior of Vader's ship frying in a glorious shower of sparks, the way everyone else who bit it in a X-wing died.  Can't remember if they showed any guys in tie-fighters ignonimously dying.  Possibly not.

I think it was clear enough that Vader didn't die by Han Solo firing on his squad.  Vader is thrown clear.  But is he thrown clear of the actual Death Star explosion?  It's pretty big, and Vader has a crippled ship that he can't steer.  They could have had Vader fry in the general Kaboom, he'd still be dead.  The WW I metaphor would be, you get shot and wounded, then sink into the bottom of a rain filled crater and drown in it.

BTW the numeral you are looking for is '7'.  Being the right age to recieve Star Wars, clearly has its advantages for memory.

[Buster's Uncle]

Well, we were left wondering whether the bad guy got away, which seems like perfectly good adventure storytelling. 

-But there was still nothing to 'correct', even for the sake of Empire.

[Lorizael]

I sometimes wish I could have my mind wiped and experience Star Wars clean the way you folk were able to. Born two years after ROTJ, I live in a world where I've always known who Darth Vader is and have to dig to find the original original versions.

[bvanevery]

-But there was still nothing to 'correct', even for the sake of Empire.

Dare we do a psychological study of why Lucas couldn't just sit on his hands in this way or that way?  One thing I heard, that really puzzled the hell out of me, is how utterly disappointed and horrified he was with the prosthetic aliens from the cantina in the original Star Wars.  I always liked them just fine.  I look at them now and think they show a great deal of imagination, like the hammerhead alien.  The only one I thought was actually goofy, was the thing that looked like a devil.  Why do that?  Thought that was dumb, even as a kid.  But the rest of it, they looked pretty darned alien to me, just not seeing any problem.

[bvanevery]

I remembered what bugged me.  I had trouble swallowing "The Plan".  Why didn't they do what they eventually did in the 1st place?  However, on further reflection about the events, I realized it was a good plan at the beginning.  Then eventually it wasn't.  Then they had to do something else.  So I had to let go of this, that it wasn't actually a plot hole.  Which is why I had trouble remembering my objection.

I'm left with the much more minor objection, of wondering why someone has to be on the bridge.  Seems hand-wavy.  There was a line of dialogue explaining why, but I don't remember it.  So I don't know if it was a good explanation or not.

[Unorthodox]

Just got back from the new one.

The only thing I'll say right away is what was supposed to be one of the bigger moments was so colorblind unfriendly I'm not even sure what I was supposed to be seeing. 

As in quite possibly the most colorblind unfriendly scene I've ever seen in a movie. 

[Unorthodox]

He didn't need luck in the cantina in the original movie.  He definitely needed luck in other instances, like not being summarily executed by Stormtroopers in the Death Star.  Maybe he had some luck piloting The Millennium Falcon and not getting shot up too badly as well.

Did you miss the entire point of Darth Vaders plan was to LET THEM ESCAPE to find the rebel base.  Of course they weren't going to kill them. 

Given what actually happened.  But what should have happened, is the 1st wing pilot is blown to bits, then the 2nd wing pilot is blown to bits, then Vader is blown to bits.  In about 5 seconds of Millenium Falcon strafing.  Oddly, it didn't happen that way, even though it was the obvious way it should have happened.  It's exactly what happened to everyone else who had firepower right on their tail in that trench.  Just that Vader was doing the from-behind executions before.

We really don't know the angle and distance the Falcon was coming from.  It wasn't right behind or right above.  Given the wedge flying formation of the tie fighters, it makes decent sense the damaged fighter would only clip the back of Vader, but slam the other. 

That's great, but again, most of us have never heard it and don't care.  Our view of Star Wars isn't colored by screenplay tidbits or radio plays.  We went with what was in the films, and for the most part, they're internally coherent.  Don't need a radio play to figure out that Luke can pilot an X-wing.

And all I ever said was that for those of us that DID grow up with the race in place, the pod race was a nice bit of nostalgia.  You've been arguing against it since then. 

[Unorthodox]

I remembered what bugged me.  I had trouble swallowing "The Plan".  Why didn't they do what they eventually did in the 1st place?  However, on further reflection about the events, I realized it was a good plan at the beginning.  Then eventually it wasn't.  Then they had to do something else.  So I had to let go of this, that it wasn't actually a plot hole.  Which is why I had trouble remembering my objection.

Actually, if I'm following you, they had several opportunities to do what they eventually did, and instead 'wasted' those to no benefit. 

I'm left with the much more minor objection, of wondering why someone has to be on the bridge.  Seems hand-wavy.  There was a line of dialogue explaining why, but I don't remember it.  So I don't know if it was a good explanation or not.

I'd comment as there's a good reason, but we're getting into spoiler territory. 

[bvanevery]

Did you miss the entire point of Darth Vaders plan was to LET THEM ESCAPE to find the rebel base.  Of course they weren't going to kill them. 

That's not the only time he tangled with Imperial ships, even in the original movie.  How much luck did it take to blast out of Mos Eisley?

[bvanevery]

Actually, if I'm following you, they had several opportunities to do what they eventually did, and instead 'wasted' those to no benefit. 

But "sneaking off" would have been a better outcome.  You have to stay sneaky to sneak off.

[Unorthodox]

Actually, if I'm following you, they had several opportunities to do what they eventually did, and instead 'wasted' those to no benefit. 

But "sneaking off" would have been a better outcome.  You have to stay sneaky to sneak off.

(click to show/hide)

I'm assuming you're talking about the suicide hyperspace run.  You had 2 other capital ships simply fall behind to be blow up.
  Either of those could have done a suicide run to disabled the enemy fleet, thus saving the remaining ships.  IIRC at least one had the captain going down with the ship as well.  (speaking of which, the last ship needed someone aboard as the plan was for her to wait for the transports to hit the planet, then jump away, thus drawing off the fleet, at least that's what I gathered.) 

[bvanevery]

(click to show/hide)

Well if you think you can make it look like you're all dead, but you really snuck off, then the loss of all 3 capital ships could be acceptable.  The thing that changed the equation, was the mercenary hacker telling the New Order about the Resistance plan.  Which only happened because the impatient space jockey went looking for an alternate way to resolve the situation.  Otherwise the original plan may have worked.  Provided they could escape notice while on the planet, which might be a bit stretchy.  It would depend on how thorough the New Order is about doing damage assessment after the battle.

It still bugs me that she's on the bridge though.  She could have used a MS Word macro to make the jump.  This isn't Dune, she's not a Mentat making the calculations herself.

[Unorthodox]

! No longer available

That really doesn't come off as HAN SOLO. 

Fun star wars it may be, but SOLO?  Voice, mannerism, nothing really seems like Han.