Star Wars VII-IX, what do you think?

[Buster's Uncle]

dumb 'splosionfests.

Isn't that all SW was ever supposed to be, on some level?

[Elok]

Not at all.  The first trilogy, at least, had a revolutionary approach to special effects combined with clever, inventive mashups of existing adventure tropes (and, yes, mythic archetypes).  The universe itself made no real sense, but it managed to be cool anyway.  Then came the prequels, which mixed inane "humor," tiresome political rubbish, rigid reliance on CG, incompetent directing, yadda yadda.  The newer ones have the look right, I suppose, but that's part of the problem--they're too reverent to the superficial aspects of the OT, with no apparent appreciation for the technique that made it work.  They actually remind me of Harry Potter movies, or any of dozens of other recent film adaptations of rabid fanboy brands.  When you watch one of those, you get the feeling that they weren't trying to tell a story so much as present a stream of film treatments of moments they knew the fans would demand, so that the end result is less a film than a filmed homage to a written work.  Same thing here, only instead of a written work you have a trio of vastly superior films.  Almost nothing in Ep 7 was not a direct copy of an element from a previous film.

How about, say, incorporating a new kind of adventure trope?  Podracing, for example, had the potential to be an interesting riff, before they put in Jake Lloyd and daft attempts at comedy.  Ben Hur with turbojets for horses--sure, it's dumb, but it's also kinda fun.  Even the silly gladiator beast-fight scenes from Ep II had the right general idea; I think the problem was that George Lucas had gotten too big a head to let other creatives veto his dumber ideas, the way he reputedly did with the OT.

Also, if nothing else, the OT had cool villains.  The only legitimately entertaining moments in Rogue One came at the very end, when Vader went on a rampage through the hallway and only got held up by the sheer number of corpses he was generating.  Because Vader was cool.  The Emperor was cool, with his gravelly voice and sinister leer.  Then came Darth Maul, who was fun to watch but had no personality, and (sigh) "Count Dooku," who fences for some damn reason and also has no personality, and General Grievous, who was a weird attempt to have Vader again but with TB.  And had no personality.  Finally, we have "Kylo Ren," who had a boring character design, a silly weapon, and a whingy personality he apparently inherited from his grandfather.  Blecch.

[Buster's Uncle]

It started as Lucas couldn't get the rights to Flash Gordon.

He seems to have forgotten that some time after the early 80s, and here we are.

[Elok]

Rented The Hidden Fortress from the library today.  Might see if my five-year-old is interested in watching it tomorrow.  He sat through about half of Alexander Nevsky, after all.  I got bored before he did.

[Unorthodox]

Also, if nothing else, the OT had cool villains.

So much this.   

The only legitimately entertaining moments in Rogue One came at the very end, when Vader went on a rampage through the hallway and only got held up by the sheer number of corpses he was generating.  Because Vader was cool.

I actually disagree with you there.  I thought the Darth Vader scene was silly tack on fan service.  But whats his name that wants to be Tarkin was rather pathetic.  What Rogue One did better than anything before is display the power of the Empire's army.  They weren't getting destroyed by teddy bears with some sticks for a change. 

The Emperor was cool, with his gravelly voice and sinister leer.  Then came Darth Maul, who was fun to watch but had no personality

Maul was a missed opportunity who was SUPPOSED TO COME BACK FOR EPISODES 2 AND 3.  That leaked VERY early and Lucas wrote him back out to preserve the 'surprise' of his scripts.  That story ended up on the Clone Wars (which is canon), instead, and was quite well done.

, and (sigh) "Count Dooku," who fences for some damn reason and also has no personality

Dooku is the best of the prequils IMO. He fences because he has to.  Again, those would have been much more entertaining with Maul in them acting as Dooku's bodyguard and Dooku throwing the occasional bolt of lightning.  Having a reformed Maul defeat Anakin and Obi Wan at the end of 2, nearly bested by Yoda so Dooku has to provide a distraction for their escape would have played SO much better, if only because Lee is too old to really pull off the lightsaber scenes.   

General Grievous, who was a weird attempt to have Vader again but with TB.

Grievous was meant to foreshadow Vader's ability to stay alive as mostly machine.  (keep in mind the 'intended viewing is in numerical order).  My problem with him is he's ALWAYS RETREATING. 

Finally, we have "Kylo Ren," who had a boring character design, a silly weapon, and a whingy personality he apparently inherited from his grandfather.  Blecch.

Frustated male teen angst = path to dark side.  I know, it sucks.  It's hardly unique to Star Wars. 

The weapon, I've warmed to.  Complaining on the weapon is equivalent of saying a claymore is silly when you have a broadsword.  I just look at it as an Kylo Ren attempting to compensate for his feelings of inadequacy....

[Elok]

Re: Ren, there were two big problems:

1. He was never fleshed out.  He had angst, for some reason, and this led him to the Dark Side.  What's his motive?  Dunno.  How did "Snoke" win him over?  Dunno.  Why is he angry at his parents?  Dunno.  He's just this sweaty, anxious, messed-up man-child who's never quite sure what he's doing or why.  A fitting emblem for modern youth, and I could have forgiven the straying from Jungian territory, but there really isn't any there there.  At some point in his unspecified past he decided to turn into a monster, and as of right now we have no idea why.  He doesn't even have Anakin's stupid mommy issues.  He's just a hot mess with a question mark on it.

2. He's profoundly ineffectual, which leaves the film devoid of interesting villains.  A hologram of Andy Serkis, a pasty guy in uniform with a vaguely Celtic accent, and a chromed lady stormtrooper.  I found it very hard to hate or be frightened of these people, no matter how many Nazi poses they struck.

[Unorthodox]

Wasn't arguing he was a good villain or that the film had any.  I'm hoping for some backstory at some point.  Considering the ground they had to cover, backstory was going to have to come later. 

I have plenty of speculation on backstory, but we'll see where they go. 

[Lorizael]

In ANH, the sum total of what we know about Vader is that he we seduced by the dark side of the force; betrayed and murdered Luke's father; is more machine than man now, twisted and evil; and is sadly devoted to an ancient religion. That's not much to go on. It's the costume, the way David Prowse commands a scene, and the way James Earl Jones voices him that make Vader a good villain. You can certainly argue that Adam Driver doesn't cut it next to that (I actually liked his performance), but I don't think you can make the case that Kylo Ren doesn't have enough of a character. Yes, there are mysteries that haven't been explained yet, but that was the case in ANH, too.

[Elok]

But they're very different kinds of character.  Vader is made to be a looming embodiment of evil, and succeeds beautifully.  As an elemental force of darkness, he's impressive--in the later trilogy, he acquired some depth, which did not detract from that.  Kylo Ren wants to be Vader, and fails.  He can't be impressive.  That means he has to be rounded as a character, but all he's got is "inadequate and conflicted."  This could be caused by some very interesting trauma, or it could be caused by his inability to get to Tosche Station and buy some power converters (Luke could do that because he was supposed to look like just your average frustrated small-town teenager at first, not an aspiring galactic warlord in whom it looks pathetic).

There's too much left "for later" here, or just not getting told at all.  Rey and Ren have mysteeerious pasts we aren't getting told about (okay, we're pretty much certain she's Luke's kid or some crap like that, but it's "for later").  WhoTF is Snoke, and where did he come from?  Guess we'll find out later.  How did it get this bad, anyway?  Why is Luke hiding?  For later.  Who the hell was that old guy in the beginning, and why was everybody acting like he was a big deal only never to refer to him again?  That's not even "for later," it's just an aspect of the story we're supposed to find out from reading novelizations or something apparently.  Do they have some sort of in-house taboo against telling stories straight?  Because there really wasn't much story there as it was, the plot was the first half of ANH welded to the second half of ROTJ, killing time with a big-eyed alien in a jungle bar in the middle.  This doesn't make me curious, it's just annoying.  They're teasing, and doing it badly.

[Unorthodox]

So, new one all hyped to hell and back coming this weekend.


Anyone going to go see it?

I'm targetting the week after Christmas, myself, so I'm sure it will be "ruined" before I get to see it anyway.  (I really don't find spoilers a problem, honestly). 


I actually have it on good authority from someone I trust that this one is on par with the original trilogy.  As in, probably behind Empire and ANH, but better than ROTJ. 

[Lorizael]

I'll be seeing it on Sunday. I've been somewhat tuned in to rumors and behind the scenes stuff, so I won't be going in blind, but I've tried to make sure I avoid plot details and spoilers.

[E_T]

I want to see it in IMAX, so I think that the first week is likely already sold out...

[Spacy]

Won't see til after X-Mas, when wife and I can get a babysitter and not have to deal with all the family drama crap. 

[Unorthodox]

SO....

Disney just bought Fox, which means they finally own all of Star Wars...

Just sending a word to Disney:  If you restore the original trilogy and release it, there's a megacrapton of money to be made. 


(slight edit as I accidentally broke the filter...)

[Spacy]

About the only thing people really care about in the original was Han shooting first, I think.  The other stuff was just cosmetic fluff.