ete plays around with network node factions

[Green1]

The problem could even be on our end - I had to temporarily change the size limit to upload it at all, and sisko then told me that shouldn't have worked. 

I'll look into the split upload tomorrow.

I think it may be. I just tried DLing from the public library and a coffee house. No go.

[Buster's Uncle]

I should probably put up all the custom factions of mine I can turn up in a reasonable search, too.  That'll take at least another two. A lot would depend on whether I can find the .txt part of a great many I've done in collaboration.

[Green1]

Finally got it. The train station wi fi of all places.

A quick question though after looking in the .txt files: am I going to have issues under SMAX with some of these if they do not have stuff like ALIENFACTIONTREATY and ALIENFACTIONTRUCE entries? Will folks running SMAC have trouble the other way around?

[Buster's Uncle]

That is a very frequent shortcoming.  I don't think the lack of alien diplomacy dialog will be a problem unless aliens are encountered.  In fact, I know it won't.  -Going the other way, it won't come up and the game will ignore it.  I guess you ought to set up a test game with aliens and see what happens then...

[Green1]

@BU

I think you are correct.

@ete..

Saw the AI play Antimind. Yeah, powerful. But the antimind is a progenitor faction should be. BU's improved Borg and Antimind teamed up to nuke Kilk's Oblivion when I did an AI only test.

There are a couple of other prog factions in there, too.

[Yitzi]

Actually, the Antimind seems that it shouldn't be that hard to beat (assuming a human opponent for it) if you just spam 1/1 troops (with or without empath or trance, but as high a morale as you can manage) and don't let it get to the late game where fungus becomes overpowered with such huge bonuses (but don't attack too early because of that ogre).  240% combat effectiveness on attack and 150% on defense looks very nice, but when your troops cost 5-7 times as much as the enemy's, that's probably not going to be enough.
The only real problem with that might be because the Antimind can catch worms as well as building them, but (1) those worms will tend to be low- to mid-lifecycle, whereas conventional troops are fairly easy to get quite high, and (2) I've read that the more worms you have, the lower the chance of capture (and worms themselves are less likely to achieve a successful capture.)

My faction of choice for fighting the antimind, not using aliens or custom factions, would probably be the Hive.  Grab the Command Nexus (which you start with the tech for) and run Police State/Planned/{Wealth-or-Knowledge} while teching to Centauri Empathy and AMA (in addition to the usual ones), then switch to Fundie/Green/Power and go on the warpath.  Yang can run that combo while only paying 11 minerals or nutrients per row, and between the Command Nexus, Fundie, and Power, your troops will be a monolith away from Elite.  So run them through the monolith, and swarm the enemy with cheap troops (scout patrols from low-production bases, empath infantry or trance 1/2/2 speeders from higher-production bases, and empath speeders (or even 3-res trance troops once you grab that capability) from the highest-production bases.)  Make sure to send formers to clear fungus in order to give your troops the movement advantage and hurt the enemy's economy, and it should work fairly well.

[ete]

If you started with some distance, it'd certainly be beatable (you're right about the faction and timing, before fungus gets too good, but after there's been time to get a good set of bases for basic troop production). The penalties mean that unless it does massive damage early on, it's going to have some issues. The reason i got rolled was I started really close, and it swarmed me with infinite worms before I had much production available. Even basic worms are really tough with the faction boosts, and they never need to build them. Just catch, and they can catch enough to overpower any nearby opponents before they have time to prepare. At +4 you get more worms than even the gaians running green, and the more you have farming the fungus the faster your army grows.

Quite a few factions seem to have typos, missing dialog, or non-functional bonuses (the most recent one I played, one with the zak's daughter as leader, had I think 10 or 11 of the bonuses which were limited to 8, which was annoying). Will probably fix as much as possible along with the indexing project.

[Green1]

If you started with some distance, it'd certainly be beatable (you're right about the faction and timing, before fungus gets too good, but after there's been time to get a good set of bases for basic troop production). The penalties mean that unless it does massive damage early on, it's going to have some issues. The reason i got rolled was I started really close, and it swarmed me with infinite worms before I had much production available. Even basic worms are really tough with the faction boosts, and they never need to build them. Just catch, and they can catch enough to overpower any nearby opponents before they have time to prepare. At +4 you get more worms than even the gaians running green, and the more you have farming the fungus the faster your army grows.

Quite a few factions seem to have typos, missing dialog, or non-functional bonuses (the most recent one I played, one with the zak's daughter as leader, had I think 10 or 11 of the bonuses which were limited to 8, which was annoying). Will probably fix as much as possible along with the indexing project.

Yeah, I think us at AC2 need to step up and make these factions cool and SMAX compliant. I am willing to help. No one wants to DL buggy crud.

Also, the way these things are DLed, it is really hard to know what you are getting unless you manually open up the .txt on every single faction. Want a custom prog? Need to look through all of them.

Some of our other DL factions at AC2 have spelling errors, too.

I will look through them later today and make a list of all the changes. Maybe even update them myself. Then, re-upload them in a form AC2 will not be embarrassed by.

[Buster's Uncle]

Yeah - there's a number of factions I worked on in the early days that I had to fix the .txt to even get them to run - and given how scant my interest and expertise is on that end, it's a pretty pitiful thing.

[Green1]

lol... np, BU. You got back up.

List of NN Factions  PART 1.

AARD. Aardom Federation

^+1 RESEARCH : {Brilliant talents.}
^-2 POLICE: {freedom loving}
^+1 TALENT per 4 citizens:  {Well educated workers}
^free colony pod at start of game
^Impunity Eudiamonic
^Chose one tech as start
^Cannot use Police State Politics
^85% Techcost {Elite researchers from varied backgrounds}

No problems.


ACOL. Acolytes of the Flame

^+PLANET: {psychic connection to Planet}
^-RESEARCH: {clouded by magic theory}
^+MORALE: {believe themselves to be magically protected}
^-SUPPORT: {expensive, elaborate, and ornate equipment}
^+25% psi: {strengthening of mind}
^120% hurry costs: {involved rituals when building}
^one fewer population limit: {elaborate living conditions}


NEEDS ALIENFACTION entries!

ADVE. Adventurer's Club

^-1 PLANET: {Safaris and "battling the elements"}
^-1 POLICE: {independantly minded}
^-1 PROBE : {computer espionage considered "ungentlemanly"}
^+1 MORALE: {very confident}
^80% hurry costs: {always ready to adventure}
^rec commons at every base: {pubs, drawing rooms, conservatories}
^begins with 3 bonus unity rovers: {explorers    //  May not use Planned}

NEEDS ALIENFACTION ENTRIES!


AGRI. Agri-culture

^-PLANET: {Large scale Terraforming ecologically disruptive}
^-INDUSTRY: {Industry uses precious arable land}
^+2MORALE: {Fiercely protective of homelands}
^-2POLICE: {Independant and generally peaceful people}
^FREE FACILITY: {Hybrid Forest at each base due to terraforming skill}
^FREE UNITS: {2 free Terraformers}
^{Terraforming costs HALVED}

NEEDS ALIENFACTION entries.


ANAR. Anarchists

^+1 GROWTH: {Lack of Social Planning}
^-3 EFFICIENCY: {Badly organized, if at all}
^+1 SUPPORT: {3 units free per base}
^-4 RESEARCH: {Not disciplined enough to learn what can be taken from others}
^FREE FACILITIES: {Skunkworks and Recreation Commons each base}
^FANATICS: {Enough said}
^HURRY 75%: {Excellent improvisation}
^TECHCOST 175%: {Atrocious education system}
^FREE UNIT: {Alien Artifact (Black Market)}
^{May not use Police State Politics.}
^{Receives HALF votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader}
^{May exceed HAB COMPLEX population requirements by 1}
^{Extra drone per 3 citizens, culture of aggression}

NEEDS ALIENFACTION ENTRIES.

[ete]

Currently having quite an interesting game with the Guardians of morality:

^+3 POLICE: {ironfisted rule}
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Forced Labor}
^+1 SUPPORT: {dedication to war effort}
^-2 RESEARCH: {many subjects forbidden}
^-1 PROBE: {distrust computers}
^-2 GROWTH: {personal relationships controlled, many people escape or die trying}
^free genejack factory at each base: {may not use eudaimoniac // +25% attack {fanatic}}

Which forces a different playstyle to what I'm used to. The early support was cool, but I found the large growth+research penalty gave me nothing worthwhile to build for a very long time (was trying blind research). The map is much wider than it is tall, which i've found tends to make the game produce more land for some reason. So all the landmasses are linked up reasonably well, which helps the AI a lot and saves raising landbridges.

Other players are:

Bree
^Aquatic Alien faction
^+3 PLANET: {Fungal Sisterhood}
^+1 Nutrients & +2 Minerals in fungus squares {Fungal Farming}
^-2 Growth {Which does not fully compensate for their startling growth}
^Immunity to mind control {Unable to understand "bribery"}
^Mind Worms do double police duty: {Harmony with and reverence for native life}
^{May not use Free Market economies.}
^{Start the game with an Isle of the Deep}

These guys expand at an INSANE rate, as I've discovered in many other games. No terraforming needed, even right away fungus is enough to keep bases running, and once they start boosting fung resources they're nuts. I ran into them early on and luckily they offered peace (they are pacifist). They kind of sandwiched me into the top of the map away from all the other factions, but I ended up claiming enough territory. They are reluctant to trade much tech and have been top of the power chart for the entire game. They've got a lot of SPs (though I have more), and gave me all the commlinks once they got the empath guild. I contacted everyone and they all declared war on me except:

Freelancers
^-1 MORALE: {Mercenaries fighting other peoples wars}
^-2 PLANET: {No respect for the environment}
^+3 ECONOMY: {Contract earnings}
^+2 SUPPORT: {Excellent supply lines}
^FREE FACILITIES: {Research Hospital (for casualties) at each base.}
^{Headquarters at each base}
^60% HURRY COSTS: {Factories geared up for wartime production.}
^{May Not use Eudaimonic future society (military regime)}

goddamn broken factions. They're research has been by far the best in the game despite only holding onto a small empire, and they charge a lot for each tech (I bought it though, and stole some from the next faction, so I'm ahead). Impressively, they're being beaten back by a faction I've not used before (though they did put up a good fight and were trading bases for decades):

Bards of Chrion
^+2PLANET: {Know the songs of Planet}
^+1 TALENT: {Bards are talented individuals}
^+1 GROWTH: {Very romantic individuals}                                       
^{Immune to Industry minuses}
^{1 fungus nutrient}

Though they've actually got more bonuses than that looking at the text files:
TECH, Ecology, FACILITY, 3, SOCIAL, ++PLANET, SOCIAL, +TALENT, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, IMMUNITY, INDUSTRY, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1, DEFENSE, 125, TERRAFORM, 0, FREEPROTO, 0, WORMPOLICE, 0, PSI, 50, TALENT, 1, POPULATION, 1, TECH, 2,

Almost all their bases seem to be in golden age currently, and they killed three factions entirely (all the below ones), all of which had a reasonable empire. Plus they brought the Freelancers down to one land base and three sea ones. They're currently the main foe, and the target of the Bree/me/Freelancer alliance. They're second in the power graph, about halfway between me and the bree.

Dreams of Earth
^-PLANET: {Large scale Terraforming ecologically disruptive}
^-INDUSTRY: {Industry ruined Earths biosphere}
^+2MORALE: {Fiercely protective of homelands}
^-2POLICE: {Independant and generally peaceful people}
^FREE FACILITY: {Hybrid Forest at each base due to terraforming skill}
^FREE UNITS: {2 free Terraformers}
^{Terraforming costs HALVED}

They built a decent empire a long way from me and declared war early on. They were the second faction crushed by the bards.

Rangers of Chrion
^CENTAURI PRESERVE: {Free facility at each base}
^+3 PLANET: {Spiritual symbiosis with Chiron}
^-3 INDUSTRY: {Industry poisons Chiron}
^-3 RESEARCH: {Technology destroys Chiron}
^+2 MORALE: {The Rangers are fiercely passionate for their cause}
^-15% ENERGY INTEREST: {Abhorrence of Energy creating facilities}
^-3 COMMERCE: {Self sufficient populace}
^150% HURRY: {Poor Industrial facilities
{May NOT use FREE MARKET}
{2 Free SCOUTS}

Declared war on me for being at peace with the bree, they were the first faction crushed by the bards (though they did have a passable little empire, despite their heavy penalties). I freed them and they established a new base in the wilderness, but the bards hunted them down.

And the last faction is the Hive, since they tend to put up the best fight out of the original factions. They died very quickly after the Bard troops reached them.



If I'd got a good set of early saves I'd have probably done an AAR. First game for a while I've been actually behind significantly, though with my hybrid forests finishing up that'll soon change.

[Kilkakon]

If anything, sounds like you had fun!

[Green1]

I think the most flavorful of the batch is the Antimind. Plus.. it is a prog faction to boot!

The antimind is sick. It can wipe the floor with Marr and Himilee. +4 planet means on a high native life huge map, it can flood far and wide every one without need to worry with terraforming or anything.

Even powerhouses like Yang have trouble with this monster.

I also noticed another Prog faction called the Manifold Seekers. I played as Zack with Yang, Sparta, the Caretakers, Usurpers, the Antimind, and these guys. Zack is about the only one that stands a chance. I tried Morgan and got my butt handed to me four times!

One game, Yang and I settled our differences to pact where we fought valliantly for the survival of the human race against hordes of progies!

[Green1]

Hmm... have yall noticed any more Prog factions? I would like a game where there are six unique vs myself. I would have to go with Zack, Santiago, Sven, or Miriam just to survive.

[ete]

Still playing, and still behind on the power graph (though catching up! marginally ahead of Bards now, but some way behind the Bree).

Anyway, the Bree are aliens, so I'm going to have to fight them at some point. My current plan is to build a settlement off in the wilderness and gift it to the Freelancers when they're submissive and the Bards are out of the picture, and techfarm off them to compensate for my -2 research.

I've now freed Yang once, and both the other two eliminated factions twice. The bards keep killing them. I'm having trouble breaking Bard bases because of Psy combat (though I'm near their HQ, so freeing leaders is easy), -3 Planet Vs +2 Planet with a 50% Psy boost is hard to overcome, and dropping FM would remove about 70% of my income/teching speed. Copters should definitely not be so cheap.

Also, I have most of the SPs because my production is insane, but low research before I set up FM meant that I did not have the tech to get a few cool SPs. And it's interesting how FM works with this faction, switching to FM is not so easy because of the GJ factories, but you can go to war with FM because of the Police bonus (unless you're fighting a Native faction, which I am..).

And yea, the Antimind is cool, but there's tonnes of great ideas here. Them being horribly broken just makes games more challenging, which is no bad thing . I'd definitely favor having two versions of each faction available for download, one which is balanced with respect to the originals and one designed to give human players a hard time (basically horrifically broken). Maybe even a weaker than balanced version for a few factions.