Civilization 4: Planetfall

[Alfapiomega]

Hello everyone!

I checked but there seems to be nothings (almost nothing) about the total conversion mod Planetfall for Civilisation 4. I doubt other SMAC lovers wouldn't try it (despite me not trying it) so I was wondering if you could share your impressions The Planetfall forums seems to be full of cheerful people but it's always hard to guess how many of them are 14 years old and how many actually played SMAC (no dissing intended) just looking for some truthful review!

[Buster's Uncle]

I made the Empath button for that, and I like Maniac.  I've seen a lot of screenshots, and the graphics appear to be lovingly-done, but AC still looks strange on that engine.

That's really all I know about Planetfall.

[Green1]

I played a bit of it and own Civ 4. The graphics are, indeed, gorgeous.

However, due to the limitations of the Civ 4 engine, much of the things that make Alpha Centauri unique could not make it in. For one, you can not terraform changing the terrain. No unit workshop was possible. There where also a lot of "additions" that I personally thought were non-canonical that SMAniAC and his team put in. The game also slows down on later turns to a crawl if you have an older computer. The total rework of the tech tree also turned some folks off along with making some things religions and actual corporations using Civ 4 :BtS's system for that.

That said, I do think any redo of AC could benifit from Civ 4's handling of some things. I love the way Civ 4 handles aircraft, for instance, over the way AC does. Instead of unit workshop, SMAniAC and crew used Civ 4's promotion system. It works well enough. Much better AI due to using Civ 4's more modern AI.

I have often said, if you could just take Planetfall's graphics and Civ 4's AI and plug it into SMAX, folks would go nuts.

[Alfapiomega]

I played a bit of it and own Civ 4. The graphics are, indeed, gorgeous.

However, due to the limitations of the Civ 4 engine, much of the things that make Alpha Centauri unique could not make it in. For one, you can not terraform changing the terrain. No unit workshop was possible. There where also a lot of "additions" that I personally thought were non-canonical that SMAniAC and his team put in. The game also slows down on later turns to a crawl if you have an older computer. The total rework of the tech tree also turned some folks off along with making some things religions and actual corporations using Civ 4 :BtS's system for that.

That said, I do think any redo of AC could benifit from Civ 4's handling of some things. I love the way Civ 4 handles aircraft, for instance, over the way AC does. Instead of unit workshop, SMAniAC and crew used Civ 4's promotion system. It works well enough. Much better AI due to using Civ 4's more modern AI.

I have often said, if you could just take Planetfall's graphics and Civ 4's AI and plug it into SMAX, folks would go nuts.

I might give it a try later on on account of what you said. Regarding the actual SMAC2 I am still hopeful. The game is indeed a masterpiece and if I ever get rich enough I would do it.
BTW that brings up a thing I had in mind for a long time - why is there no actual fundraising for SMAC2? I mean like a kickstarter. If people asked the original producers that could get a massive support. I know I would pledge 100USD in a blink.

[Buster's Uncle]

[shrugs]  We'll never know until someone tries...  It ought to at least make for an effective and persuasive publicity stunt if it takes off at all.  Go for it.

[Alfapiomega]

[shrugs]  We'll never know until someone tries...  It ought to at least make for an effective and persuasive publicity stunt if it takes off at all.  Go for it.

...me?

[Buster's Uncle]

Yeah you.  I ain't gonna do it.

[Alfapiomega]

Yeah you.  I ain't gonna do it.

I wanted to say: "me? I am hardly qualified to do that"

but then you would say: "anyone can say that"

then I would have to reply: "yes but I AM not qualified"

and you would just repeat: "again, anyone can say that."

Hm... where would one start with this? Probably find out who own the property rights for SMAC franchise. That would be Firaxis and Firaxis is owned by 2K/T2. Hm...

[Buster's Uncle]

I think it's EA.  Not sure if that covers any sequel, but probably.

[Buster's Uncle]

And anyway, what I'd really reply is "Take initiative; that's how things get done.  Someone has to go first.".

The proof of that is this forum.  Someone went first, then persuaded others to back his play.

[Pickly]

In general, I'd say I liked the gameplay overall a bit better (There are a lot of options that weren't available thanks to Civ 4 limitations, but I did like a lot of the Civ 4 based additions, and I liked that the terraforming system encouraged something other than lots of forests and/or advanced options + crawlers), but it does lack the immersion that Alpha Centauri had (Tech tree doesn't help with this.)

It's one of those cases where the mod diverges enough that the two versions are less competition and more two complementary versions of the game.  (And likely like a lot of you, I would like to see some ideas from the mod adding to a theoretical sequel.)

[Buster's Uncle]

...Bumping this for Maniac to see...

[Green1]

Well, Maniac himself did say once that the Civ 4 engine, while powerful, could tend to be rather bland sometimes. Not sure where he said it.

If there was just a way that Maniac could overcome the Civ 4 limitation so you can raise/lower terrain, that would be a huge step. I do agree with Maniac that doing it for Civ 5 is out of the question.

[Maniac]

The lack of a unit workshop and elevation terraforming is not due to limitations in the Civ4 engine, but deliberate design choices. Reason: there's a trade-off between on one side freedom to do whatever you want and on the other side having interesting trade-offs and strategic choices in the game.

Let's look at the unit workshop. First off, Planetfall does have a special ability system with a larger variety of spec abs than SMAC had. So in that area Planetfall certainly isn't inferior. What Planetfall doesn't have is free choice of attack strength, defense strength, and movement points (ADM).

SMAC's customization of ADM creates only one trade-off for unit design: cost versus ADM. A system of pre-designed units Civ4/Planetfall-style allows for unit types to be much more distinct, and as a result create more meaningful choice. Eg infantry vs chopper in Planetfall is AD<->M: infantry is strong but slow; chopper is fast but weaker. There are also three different infantry lines (flamethrower, genite, marine + their upgrades) each with their own benefits. Stuff like that isn't possible with SMAC.

Besides, a lot of the freedom the unit workshop offers in theory is false or meaningless freedom. After people have played the game for a while they converge to using the same designs every single game. Eg for needlejets that's a "best weapon - no armour" and "impact weapon - no armour" design. If that's all people use, one might as well put those designs in the game Civ4-style and save the trouble of creating a unit workshop.


Second point, elevation terraforming. I don't even see what that option added to SMAC's gameplay. Sure, I've created the occasional energy park, but what else was it used for?  And it is subject to the same trade-off as with the unit workshop: freedom versus meaningful choice. Elevation in Planetfall has more features designed around it than SMAC had. Besides affecting the output of certain terrain improvements, Planetfall doesn't allow movement between ridges and lowlands. This makes combat more tactical. These movement restrictions can be circumvented by choppers, or by building a bunker on a ridge you want to move to. Elevation also influences the spread of fungus: it can't spread on highlands and ridges, thus creating safe haven for Planet polluting players. Stuff like that would lose its meaning if players could just convert the entire world in an endless stretch of highlands. Giving the player limited tools to deal with the environment they ended up in allows for a more strategic game than the endless "freedom" of SMAC's sandbox.

[Lord Avalon]

Is it meaningless if I'm using the same unit designs, but I'm also using all the slots?  When I get a reactor upgrade, I see what low-level armor I can throw on former crawlers & sea formers for free; or at better reactors, what can go on aircraft.  I eventually end up with several types of supply units at different min levels.  Depending on my EC, I might have a few high morale cheap units that get upgraded to better units.

As far as elevation, since I play mostly on huge maps, the main use (since I learned that crawling nuts + specialits is better than crawling energy) is to raise isthmuses to join continents/islands (while trying to avoid blocking sea lanes) so I can (eventually) zip across much of the world (or at least my territory) on magtubes.