Building a Community

[Mart]

BUncle, thank you for very kind words!

What I could add, what is for example very important for me, are constantly added new features and corrections. What scient did, kyrub, PlotinusRedux and especially Yitzi is keeping the game interesting and fresh after 16 years (already?) It makes it so much easier to be around SMACX.

Demogame?... Let us see. I have mixed feelings about, if we can start one very soon. That's a broad topic in itself.

[Buster's Uncle]

Mart, thank you for being so thankable - I've just recovered from a very extended indolent spell, and your industry has done more than anyone to generate activity and keep the place worth checking by while I was depressed and not always even going through the motions.

We can talk in the Staff Room about demogame stuff if you like.  I'm close to making a post there myself, briefing on the interforum cooperation/cross promotion/mutual support stuff I'm currently talking up to people at three Civ forums - and this could possibly connect to that.  Wouldn't a forum team competition be awesome if we could arrange it?  -Not that we don't need one or two simpler ones under our belts first...

The patches are our most valuable content asset, for sure - and yes, especially Yitzi, as active and always updating - and contributing knowledge from reading formulas out of the game code.  I'd also mention Dio for his contributions to the .exe stuff.  to all.

[Mart]

We can talk in the Staff Room if you like.  I'm close to making a post there myself, briefing on the interforum cooperation/cross promotion/mutual support stuff I'm currently talking up to people at three Civ forums - and this could possibly connect to that.  Wouldn't a forum team competition be awesome if we could arrange it?  -Not that we don't need one or two simpler ones under our belts first...
...

Ok, but if this forum team competition would be only part of the interforum cooperation, then we could discuss such game in a separate thread.

[Buster's Uncle]

I'm not sure I follow - and I hope you caught the first paragraph I edited in.

But forum team competition is only a thought about something that shouldn't prove difficult to get cooperation on.  A demogame is worthwhile in itself and I believe it was just last year there was a spell of talk in favor of working one up.  -Purely as a simple deal local like we did at WPC, (before the Civ5 release gutted it along with the community) we want to talk it up out in public as much as we can, as part of stirring interest and participation.

[Mart]

So we talk about demogame here? Or in another thread, open to everyone? Maybe you choose.

[Buster's Uncle]

Here, a new Site thread, and probably one in TOE & Rec Commons linked to a main one in MP to make sure we get everyone's attention.

We can start here and expand everywhere else as we get ready - Chiron News Network, putting it on the Front Page and linking the MP thread, for sure when we get there, by your judgement.

You have the keys to the kingdom, sir, should we get this off the ground - I can make subforums (private or otherwise) in minutes, and I'm always around.  Mod powers where needed.  I'm on the bus and pushing at the same time.  You know what's needed; let's rock.

[Mart]

Ok, so if we consider demogames in SMACX, I had experience from Apolyton mostly. And was there from around middle of ACDG2. Apolyton had really 3 good demogames:
ACDG1 - singleplayer.
ACDG2 - 5 teams!
ACDG3 - 4 teams.

There was also Hive singleplayer intended/started, but it really never took off.
ACDG4 and ACDG5 were only limited participation ones.

WPC demogame was also a limited one, it quickly lost interest.

There is some my observation, that apart from the very first singleplayer demogame, ACDG1 (shortly after game release) all singleplayer ones were not very successful. Like on WPC singleplayer won in voting, but later players lost interest.

Some other sites may have SMACX demogames, these sites may be devoted to civ playing, but are not so popular as major ones. For example, there was that (and probably there still is) a German site, where I know people played at least 2 demogames, with 2 teams. Interesting approach, when there is not many players. So there may be games in other languages, that we do not know about. Maybe quite popular. Or they were some years ago.

So I think, that some next demogame should be multiplayer. Even 2 teams would do it. Though 3 teams would be more interesting. Our succession game is kinda singleplayer demogame, although my intention was rather a succession game, not a 100% team play. Multiplayer gives more meaning, like you not only compete against AI.

Demogames do take more involvement, at least from core faction members, those, who turn-play, draw strategy plans, do diplomacy, write reports, etc. Other people can make occasional comment or simply take care of some selected part - e.g. former works, navy, facility advisor, etc.

How many members of the forum would play MP demogame today? From moderate to core-involved, I think 5 to 7 or 8? Maybe more? Is it enough? For 2 factions this is probably minimum. And what is more, the game will take like a year to 1.5 years. Will all be continuously participating? Here game pace is important, it cannot be too quick, cause the game then dilutes. You maybe draw some strategy plans, and finally turn-player skips 10 turns after which all these issues you were thinking for several days are no longer there. And there are new ones that are already half-solved. That is discouraging the same or even more than long periods of stagnation, when there is no new turn for weeks.

[Buster's Uncle]

I think two teams.  The WPC game was both too complex for SMACX/demogame newbies, and too simple, being against the AI, and having no element of drama from competition.  I wonder if we can't get Uno involved - he's demo vet.  Impaler was expressing interest last time -I'll Skype him a heads-up right now (he's on and I just did- also pinged Solver and Maniac, who are not on ATM).  I can think of a few others - the succession game bunch is probably a natural core group - somebody should contact Darsnan and tell him I'm not looking for payback, and he should come.  DarkCloud checks by 'poly a few times a year -worth trying.  Maybe Black Cat, and I'm trying to lure Elok over here, and CEO Aaron is a member here who has never posted.

It would be so cool if we could lure some oldtimers in out of the cold.  Rubin is still active at CFC, though he thinks I'm -- I have no idea, but maybe he'd get an education if he came and looked around.  And of course Lefty and Petek.  Sorry  for the tangent.

I still think the WPC demogame was killed by the Civ5 mania.  Everybody ran over there all excited, including most of the demogame participants, and just wandered off when 5 turned out to suck.  Even I did that a little, though not because I ever cared about 5.

I do sort of think we should organize the locals, but also recruit openly everywhere and leave open the possibility of organizing into forum teams if there's enough interest.  I 'spect Lefty and Petek will be too busy to play much, but interested in organizing a team.

[Buster's Uncle]

I'm just thinking out loud at this point and my thoughts haven't organized yet.

[Mart]

You know, the AC2SG (succession game) is now so discussion-oriented, that it uses a lot of energy, that would be good for a demogame. I hope it will cool down a bit.

I think it is best, when old-timers return to SMACX, that they have opportunity to play some games singleplayer. One needs to recall a lot of things. And then, only some of them will find it worth playing more, like MP or demogame. I guess, that when gathering all people from ACDG3 (last DG with so many participants) only some percentage of them would return to play for longer.

How to increase that percentage? I think, that when indicated all the features:
- bugs corrected, e.g. probe roll-over, the big one destroying gameplay.
- new features introduced by Yitzi.
- interface, what PlotinusRedux made with PRACX.
These can bring more people back, cause there is something new and better in SMACX.

[Buster's Uncle]

I like how you're thinking.

[Buster's Uncle]

I don't doubt that you're right about the oldtimers needing to get back up to speed, but I think if we take a run at ambitious recruiting, and I think a demogame and talk about patches is good bait, we need to offer something soon.

I just can't decide if we should come up with a format yet, or recruit with flexible plans.  I suppose we ought to root around and find that MP thread from the last surge of interest in a demogame, see who was talking it up then.  I don't recall much.

[Mart]

I think, that if there are 3 people dedicated to play in a DG faction per faction, the game would start. But this is minimum. So if there are 6, we can have 2 teams. If by any chance there are 9, we could start 3 teams DG. And this is in my opinion optimum for now. I would propose limit per faction 48 hours to make a turn. This makes up to 6 days per mission year. If there is less to do, turns will flow quicker, so we may do 2 MY per week, or so. From ACDG3 on Apolyton, I think this is optimum time. There are turns, which just have more issues. 2 full days is good time. We all have RL also.
Like I was playing in civ4 demogame with limit of 24 hours per turn. It was too fast. Not enough time to talk about strategy when events became 'dense'. But civ4 has hundreds of turns and not like 150 to tech victory, so civ4 players do want to speed through turns.

[Buster's Uncle]

Check the topped thread in GotM for a detailed briefing of what I've been up to and what I'm planning to try today.

[Buster's Uncle]

I've spoken to Ming at 'poly and am trying to get some delegation to someone who has time at the other places.  I don't have my hopes set on that forum team thing, but you never know and recruiting is recruiting...  Maybe we get some guys participating as a vs. AC2 team, at least, or just some individuals.

I know we can get enough guys no matter what.  Somebody's got MP really humming lately, and this will add to that.