Manual Poll: Best Disney Villain

[Unorthodox]

My son contends Jafar is the greatest.

I'm too lazy to look them all up to make a poll proper. 

[gwillybj]

Cruella DeVille

[Unorthodox]

Cruella DeVille

I can't get on board with this at all.  She's always at the top of 'lists' you see, but the whole 'fur is murder' theme really doesn't move me, and so it boils down to she stole some puppies.  Meh.  Petty thief. 

Her best thing is inspiring this:

! No longer available

[Elok]

Ariel.  Or is she an antihero?  Either way, it's an interesting twist that she's allowed to win in the end.

[Unorthodox]

I want to hear your thesis on how Ariel is villainous. 

Ursula would be up there in my book.  Not only does she steal souls, and do it LEGALLY, she actually achieves her goals, though poor management of her power leads to a swift end to her reign. 

[Elok]

Easy: she's utterly irresponsible and selfish.  She chases after a man she doesn't know--she's never even had a conversation with him, and it should be noted, as her father does, that HE EATS HER FRIENDS--at the cost of abandoning all her friends and family who love her, eventually literally signing a pact with the powers of darkness to do it.  She ruins absolutely everything, and is rewarded for doing so.  Ursula is the devil.  Ariel is Faust.  I guess the story could be seen as an allegory for Christian redemption, insofar as she really deserves to be turned into sea-foam, but her much worthier Father sacrifices all to save her?

[Unorthodox]

To be fair, the source material is equally messed up.  The mermaid sacrifices practical immortality, her tongue, walking/dancing constantly feels like she's standing on daggers, plus all friends and life before she leaves the sea for only a chance at a soul and thus a heavenly afterlife, only to fail miserably and be turned into seafoam/daughter of air which is potentially more horrible than anything else when you get right down to it. 


Being Naïve, Irresponsible, and Selfish does not = villain to me. 

Father making things worse by signing over everything to Ursula is on him. 

[Rusty Edge]

Easy: she's utterly irresponsible and selfish.  She chases after a man she doesn't know--she's never even had a conversation with him, and it should be noted, as her father does, that HE EATS HER FRIENDS--at the cost of abandoning all her friends and family who love her, eventually literally signing a pact with the powers of darkness to do it.  She ruins absolutely everything, and is rewarded for doing so.  Ursula is the devil.  Ariel is Faust.  I guess the story could be seen as an allegory for Christian redemption, insofar as she really deserves to be turned into sea-foam, but her much worthier Father sacrifices all to save her?

Well, now that you put it that way ( rather nicely, I might add )it sounds like something straight out of C.S. Lewis. Dad is the Christ figure.

I wasn't a Mermaid fan, I liked the Steadfast Tin Soldier. ( I wonder why they haven't done that one?) I just tended to think of Ariel as a terrible role model, and once it went Disney I tended to think of it as some of their best singing and songwriting ever, and ignore the story.


I've seen segments, but I don't think I ever saw the animated Sleeping Beauty from start to finish. For me, Malificent is the Disney Arch Villain in that she has a sort of dark evil presence like Darth Vader. She wanted to eat Aurora's heart, if I recall correctly.

[Buster's Uncle]

You know, Guinevere's character arch in Camelot is like that; at the beginning, she naively sings of longing for all that princess stuff, being rescued and having men fight over her -I look at it as she's 16 or so and doesn't know any better- and is punished by getting exactly what she asked for.

The Simple Joys of Maidenhood by Julie Andrews (Camelot)

Is she a villain, then, or just a fool?

[Eadee]

Does Darth Vader qualify these days?

[Rusty Edge]

Does Darth Vader qualify these days?

I don't know, I still haven't seen the new one,but his 1977 entrance is among the best moments  in movie history. You just knew he was bad to the bone.

[Unorthodox]

Easy: she's utterly irresponsible and selfish.  She chases after a man she doesn't know--she's never even had a conversation with him, and it should be noted, as her father does, that HE EATS HER FRIENDS--at the cost of abandoning all her friends and family who love her, eventually literally signing a pact with the powers of darkness to do it.  She ruins absolutely everything, and is rewarded for doing so.  Ursula is the devil.  Ariel is Faust.  I guess the story could be seen as an allegory for Christian redemption, insofar as she really deserves to be turned into sea-foam, but her much worthier Father sacrifices all to save her?

Well, now that you put it that way ( rather nicely, I might add )it sounds like something straight out of C.S. Lewis. Dad is the Christ figure.

I wasn't a Mermaid fan, I liked the Steadfast Tin Soldier. ( I wonder why they haven't done that one?) I just tended to think of Ariel as a terrible role model, and once it went Disney I tended to think of it as some of their best singing and songwriting ever, and ignore the story.


I've seen segments, but I don't think I ever saw the animated Sleeping Beauty from start to finish. For me, Malificent is the Disney Arch Villain in that she has a sort of dark evil presence like Darth Vader. She wanted to eat Aurora's heart, if I recall correctly.

I don't think I saw Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, or Snow White prior all the way through prior to Talia. 

Think you're mixing up Maleficent with Queen whatshername from Snow White.  They look nearly identical (crown vs horns, but otherwise...), so it's an understandable mistake, but the latter wanted to eat snow white's heart. 

Maleficent's motives are never really revealed in the Disney cartoon, other than she was offended by the parents for not inviting her to the christening.  The subsequent Maleficent really neuters her 'evilness'. 

[Unorthodox]

You know, Guinevere's character arch in Camelot is like that; at the beginning, she naively sings of longing for all that princess stuff, being rescued and having men fight over her -I look at it as she's 16 or so and doesn't know any better- and is punished by getting exactly what she asked for.

I'm admittedly a sucker for the careful what you wish for stories.  Loved that particular aspect of Camelot. 

[Buster's Uncle]

I rather loathe the T.H. White it was based on, and don't like the play itself at all - but the songs are awesomely good, and on a meta-level the thematic spine of dreams fulfilled (Guen) or thwarted (Lance) or partly-thwarted (Arthur) really works; just not so much in execution while nobody's singing.

[Unorthodox]

What's your beef with The Once and Future King?  (the musical takes a fair few liberties, mind you.)