Coruscant on Earth

[Mart]

Will China be the first to effectively coruscantise Earth?

http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-urbanization-underestimated-china-adds-9-megacities-according-new-report-1890713

http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/rise-chinas-megalopolis-jing-jin-ji-evolution-megacities-2016373

[Unorthodox]

The problem, as always, is how to FEED such a space. 

[Mart]

The problem, as always, is how to FEED such a space. 

Feed, you mean food?
Some people claim, Earth in its present state is capable of producing food for several times more people, than that 7 billion now?
We do not put enough attention to agriculture the way we do it presently. There is a lot of room for improvement.
And I am not talking about what, for example, Monsanto people try to do. Simple things can still bring crops much larger.

[Buster's Uncle]

He means food.

[Unorthodox]

The problem, as always, is how to FEED such a space. 

Feed, you mean food?
Some people claim, Earth in its present state is capable of producing food for several times more people, than that 7 billion now?
We do not put enough attention to agriculture the way we do it presently. There is a lot of room for improvement.
And I am not talking about what, for example, Monsanto people try to do. Simple things can still bring crops much larger.

Yes, to FEED a coruscant. 

Let's hear these simple things that are going to bring larger crops, keeping in mind the coruscant space also diverts WATER needed for the crops and costs energy in transportation. 

Barring soylent green, I don't see us feeding such a population. 

[Mart]

Soylent green is kinda fact. We do not like to think about it probably, but the truth is, our bodies as they are decomposed after death, go back (in form of inorganic matter) to the circulation of matter on our planet. And this is it. Some of atoms in food we eat have a chance to be in the past in bodies of others.

For improved agriculture, this example is good, as it says about some actually ancient technology, that they say is superior to our present one.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cerickso/articles/Exped.pdf
The article is by Clark L. Erickson "Putting Ancient Agriculture Back to Work", Expedition, 30(1):8-16, 1988.
And fragment of Abstract/Intro:

"The remains of an extensive ancient agricultural system
built and used by Andean peoples centuries ago are found
throughout the vast high plain surrounding Lake Titicaca in the
Andean countries of Peru and Bolivia (Figs. 1, 2). Raised fields are large
elevated planting platforms which provided drainage, improved soil
conditions, and improved temperatures for crops, The remains of
prehistoric raised fields, elaborate sunken gardens, and agricultural
terraces cover tens of thousands of hectares in the region, and provide
evidence of the impressive engineering abilities of the peoples who
lived there in pre-Columbian times.
Our recent investigations of raised field agriculture demonstrate
not only the technological expertise of the past cultures, but also that
these systems could be re-used today to make high altitude lands
more productive. In a region such as the Andes, where conditions of
soil and climate greatly limit agricultural potential, technological
methods to augment productivity have been increasingly necessary to
support the growing populations of Quechua and Aymara farmers who
live there today. The reuse of raised fields may be an economical and
ecologically sound alternative to agricultural development based on
expensive imported technology."

A single example, but the fact that in ancient times they were able to make agriculture better than people do today speaks volumes to me.

And energy, there is an interesting NASA research on energy from orbit:
http://mashable.com/2013/08/29/nasa-satellite-solar-power/
That may be only some article with little details, but one can find out more, what they do about it in NASA.
I have read recently, that as on Earth we have to consider problems of weather conditions for solar plants, there is no such problems on orbit.
There would be other problems I guess. Anyway, "microwaving" energy from orbit is some way of getting more. Sun have abundance of it.
Some considerations to the extreme would be Dyson sphere. And this is like offtopic here. But Ringworld by Larry Niven was more interesting idea. I enjoyed the story very much.

[Lorizael]

The correct term is Trantor. 

[Buster's Uncle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trantor#Food_production
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trantor#Administrative_sectors
Mycogen   -Not that the prequels were any good...

[Unorthodox]

Soylent green is kinda fact. We do not like to think about it probably, but the truth is, our bodies as they are decomposed after death, go back (in form of inorganic matter) to the circulation of matter on our planet. And this is it. Some of atoms in food we eat have a chance to be in the past in bodies of others.

A: That's not soylent green, that's reincarnation.
B: That's not applicable with today's utilization of cemeteries. 

For improved agriculture, this example is good, as it says about some actually ancient technology, that they say is superior to our present one.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cerickso/articles/Exped.pdf
The article is by Clark L. Erickson "Putting Ancient Agriculture Back to Work", Expedition, 30(1):8-16, 1988.
And fragment of Abstract/Intro:

"The remains of an extensive ancient agricultural system
built and used by Andean peoples centuries ago are found
throughout the vast high plain surrounding Lake Titicaca in the
Andean countries of Peru and Bolivia (Figs. 1, 2). Raised fields are large
elevated planting platforms which provided drainage, improved soil
conditions, and improved temperatures for crops, The remains of
prehistoric raised fields, elaborate sunken gardens, and agricultural
terraces cover tens of thousands of hectares in the region, and provide
evidence of the impressive engineering abilities of the peoples who
lived there in pre-Columbian times.
Our recent investigations of raised field agriculture demonstrate
not only the technological expertise of the past cultures, but also that
these systems could be re-used today to make high altitude lands
more productive. In a region such as the Andes, where conditions of
soil and climate greatly limit agricultural potential, technological
methods to augment productivity have been increasingly necessary to
support the growing populations of Quechua and Aymara farmers who
live there today. The reuse of raised fields may be an economical and
ecologically sound alternative to agricultural development based on
expensive imported technology."

A single example, but the fact that in ancient times they were able to make agriculture better than people do today speaks volumes to me.

Oooo, someone's going to quote Inca tech.  That's right in my wheelhouse. 

The key to Incan raised bed farming is the inclusion of the water in the ditches.  Standing water.  Permanently.  It acts to insulate the crops from temp extremes, fertilizes with natural decomposition of the creatures and plants in the water, and water the growing crops. 

Problem being, most areas simply don't have that much water to leave standing, it becomes a disease vector for both plants and animals, limits the use of agricultural machinery, and it's a VERY inefficient use of water in general.  Now, in specific circumstances, such as in the Andes, it makes great sense.  On a global sense, or even a massive city scale, not so much. 

Next, go ahead and bring up the Terra Preta of the Aztecs and I can explain how it's unsustainable on the large scale as well.  Great for the specific circumstances the Aztecs found themselves, just like the Inca, but not "the answer" on a global scale. 

And energy, there is an interesting NASA research on energy from orbit:
http://mashable.com/2013/08/29/nasa-satellite-solar-power/
That may be only some article with little details, but one can find out more, what they do about it in NASA.
I have read recently, that as on Earth we have to consider problems of weather conditions for solar plants, there is no such problems on orbit.
There would be other problems I guess. Anyway, "microwaving" energy from orbit is some way of getting more. Sun have abundance of it.
Some considerations to the extreme would be Dyson sphere. And this is like offtopic here. But Ringworld by Larry Niven was more interesting idea. I enjoyed the story very much.

You were talking present day tech, not pie in the sky research.  This idea has been around for a long time, and continues to run into the same problem of cost efficiency. 

IF we get the reusable spaceflight working, and more efficient converters here on earth, MAYBE it's possible.  That's a ways off yet.   

[Buster's Uncle]

-Anything to say on the Amazon basin carbon-infusion soil enrichment farming they've found evidence of?

[Unorthodox]

That's the Terra Preta.    It's been found all along from Aztec down through Mayan territories as well as the amazon.  The Maya/Aztec areas became unsustainable and are presently ruined for production. 

It's unsustainable as it was being done, and unfortunately uniquely Amazonian in chemistry today.  At it's most basic, it is a 'compost EVERYTHING' philosophy.

Along with charcoal, the amount of clay, pottery, bone, and blood needed to sustain it is pretty extraordinary, but could likely be provided by various industries.   

There are a multitude of companies researching alternative methods of creating a sustainable way to do it today with limited success to date. The amount of charcoal needed is simply unsustainable.    Theoretically, we could turn the amazon into a giant fertilizer factory and use it around the world. 

That said, COMPOST EVERYTHING has it's merits outside the amazon as well. 

[Buster's Uncle]

Dang, Uno - you sure know a lot about a lot of things.

[Unorthodox]

Too much study of Aztec/Mayan/Incan in my days.  You guys just picked one of 'my' topics.

One big problem with Terra Preta is it's ability to retain everything...  this is GOOD on the face of it, but in todays chemical laden pesticide/fertilize agriculture, it could cause a lot of problems.   

[Buster's Uncle]

You have a lot of topics.  Game knows game, sir.

[Mart]

We may have solutions adequate to areas. I think one solution is good for Amazon, and different solution is good for Sahara.
On global scale and when going to thinking of Earth being a Coruscant, one can determine or estimate at least, how much carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and so on, we have on Earth and available for our processing them, and how it can be distributed/circulated. We would get some number of possible population this way. This is not very simple, but our knowledge on all necessary elements for life is improving.
Analytical chemistry being here crucial, as there are detection limits. So possibly, we may miss some element being necessary in some case, because it is some catalyst needed in small amount below detection limit. But this is my guessing. Last time I was checking, was it like 23 elements? needed for people, not counting some other life like different flora. These can require different set of elements.

Yes, I gave example for some future with energy. That is for closer to Coruscant case, but we may see this system in not so distant future. Personally, I think, other kinds of energy will be available. Physics research may have something in store for us. Still, better use of water is possible. Irrigation used today can be improved. That may be costly, but when food prices go up, there will be people making technologies for that. Some analogy would be Canadian oil sands or shales. When oil prices are high, they are interested in development and research on getting oil from them. When oil prices are low, support for that research stops. It's something like that, and it is standard in business.

What is very strange or annoying is that while some people worry about food, others seem to do the opposite. For example, carbon dioxide sequestration. There are ideas of capturing CO2 and then storing it deep underground. So really are we that interested in getting rid of carbon, that is after all so crucial for biomass?