Religious belief

[Buster's Uncle]

That'll do.

There was a lot of solder melted in, so the tin content might -might- qualify it as pewter.  Believe me, I didn't lick the thing, and took care to wash the fingers touching thoroughly.


-Found my copy of The Book of Mormon in that stuff, too.

[Dio]

That'll do.

There was a lot of solder melted in, so the tin content might -might- qualify it as pewter.  Believe me, I didn't lick the thing, and took care to wash the fingers touching thoroughly.


-Found my copy of The Book of Mormon in that stuff, too.

I was not concerned about licking or unintentionally putting the hand in your eyes or mouth. You mentioned making it from a mold and carving it. The carving process could potentially release particles that you might inhale unintentionally . This does not exempt the fact that I have carved a few items in my life . [end discussion on topic]

[Buster's Uncle]

Carved with a knife - there was sanding, too, but mostly tiny-particle-free carving; and you're about you own age too late for this warning to do me any good, anyway.



Here's a point I try to make to innerwebs nerdz so often about a basic adolescent/innerwebs nerd categorical error almost 100% of us have a very dangerous weakness for that I also saved the pic and am attaching it for good measure.

[Eadee]

Awesome. I really like that picture, it illustrates it very good. I'm gonna save this for future use.

Thank you BU!

[Valka]

This is something that would be good for getting some concepts across that (for instance) there are more than two opinions about NuTrek (yeah, I know that every one other than mine is wrong, but to keep peace on the forum and avoid the hair-trigger infraction impulse of the moderator who runs that section of TrekBBS, I have to practice diplomacy...).

[Buster's Uncle]

This is exactly why I posted it - the internet is made of nerds.  Nerd have no sense of perspective.  Nerds need that message.  I've made the same point already in this thread -I think; I've certainly made it several times lately- and that meme thingy says it so simply/eloquently that even a nerd can grok it.

-Definitely has spiritual applications, too, not that Elok doesn't already get the point...

[Buster's Uncle]

How a homeless Satanic monument wound up in Detroit
Crafty devil
DetroitMetroTimes
By Lee DeVito @leedevito   July 22, 2015






Baphomet is part man and part animal. The goat-headed Satanic symbol is often shown with one arm pointing upward and the other pointing down. He is even sometimes depicted with female breasts. The icon means different things to different people, but for the Satanic Temple, Baphomet's dualities make him the perfect symbol of reconciling opposites and plurality. That's why the group (who describe themselves as "non-theistic Satanists") decided to build a one-ton, 9-foot-tall bronze monument of Baphomet with the hopes of getting it installed next to the Ten Commandments monument on Oklahoma's state Capitol.

Before then, a stop in Detroit, where the Satanic Temple has established its first national chapterhouse, to officially unveil the monument. And that's when all hell broke loose. In Detroit, the group has faced violent threats, which caused them to relocate the event to a secret, private location. And possibly in an effort avoid any further conflict, Oklahoma's Supreme Court recently declared the Ten Commandments monument unconstitutional — which means for now, Baphomet is looking for a new home.

We spoke with Jex Blackmore, a member of the Satanic Temple's executive ministry, to learn about the devil in the details — and why the unveiling will still go on.


Metro Times: When did the idea for this sculpture originate?

Jex Blackmore: It feels like so long ago now. It was the winter two years ago, I think. The idea of it was more of [TST spokesman Doug Mesner's]. In terms of my involvement, I was called and he said "we have this idea. We're going to put a monument up and we don't know what it is yet." Then we went through a series of brainstorm sessions of how it would look.


MT: So you guys designed it?

Blackmore: Yes, the Satanic Temple designed it. We did the first sketches and then we passed it off to an artist. We had a conversation with the executive ministry at the Satanic Temple about what kind of monument it would be. We played around with a few different ideas and finally came to Baphomet, and from there fleshed out all the details of whether or not it would be the historic Baphomet or our interpretation.

The sculptor's name is Mark Porter. He's traveling with the monument. I just had a long conversation with him today about transport. We have a trailer but we can't have Baphomet on the back for all to see as it goes down the highway. We need to construct something to try to seal it.


MT: Why Detroit for the unveiling? You guys have established the chapterhouse here.

Blackmore: We have roots here and I live here, and we have our first chapter here. We have a really strong local chapter that is really active and involved and helpful. Doug is from Detroit as well. So we have a lot of support here.


MT: We're sure you've seen the comments online. A lot of people are upset about the statue's mere existence. Are you worried about anyone creating a scene at the unveiling party or vandalizing it?

Blackmore: It's an incredibly charged object — even the idea of it is just charged. It's a really amazing thing to witness the kind of connotations important people place on it on both sides. We have purchased excellent insurance for the object. We will have an ample amount of security at the event. Of course we respect and even encourage people to express their opinions on either side because it's healthy and it's part of democracy. So it doesn't surprise me that potentially people could come and protest. We will have security in place that ensure everyone is safe who attends and that the object is safe. And even people who want to speak out against it are also safe.


MT: Are there any concerns that people will take it the wrong way — that they don't understand the Satan that you guys evoke is a metaphor of and not literally the Christian Satan?

Blackmore: All the time. I mean we try to be as transparent as possible about what we believe and our practices. We have a very informative website. We do interviews. We write essays. There is a wealth of information about who we are. We can't obviously control people's assumptions about us, especially when they have no interest in learning or understanding. The best we can do is be transparent and honest about who we are.


MT: Probably every religious group has been misunderstood by others since the dawn of time.

Blackmore: Even to be fair there are people within the Satanic community that demonize all Christians for being opposed to things like gay marriage. That's not the case about all Christians. So, making generalizations about any group and their beliefs is not a wise thing for us to do as a community.


MT: Anything else you think people should know about the event?

Blackmore: With the announcement of the private Unveiling event, many have launched a crusade against the Satanic Temple, irresponsibly mischaracterizing and disparaging the group due to willful speculation. We have been told that the Satanic Temple is the “last thing Detroit needs,” while it is not us, but many leaders from the traditional Detroit religious community who intentionally provoke discontent, violence, outrage and misunderstanding. We firmly believe that all should have the freedom to practice their faith or lack thereof without harassment, that the majority does not have the right to define what’s acceptable for all and that we should support our neighbors despite our differences. The kind of slander and intolerance perpetuated by this vocal faction is precisely why we remain a proactive community and why our event will proceed as a celebration of free expression. Those who are offended simply need not attend. Let us remember that Detroit has been a majority Christian community for decades. If the prayers of a single voice haven’t saved us yet, perhaps it is time to embrace the diversity of our great community and seek commonalities because one might argue that is what Detroit truly needs.

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/how-a-homeless-satanic-monument-wound-up-in-detroit/Content?oid=2357195#fromMobile

[Unorthodox]

What I can see looks like quality work. 

[Valka]

That Satanic Temple outfit is a cult, if it's the same as, or similar to, the "Church of Satan". One of the people in one of the myriad religion threads at CFC told me to check it out because it was totally in sync with atheism ( ). So I followed the link, did some reading and further research... and surprise (not!), it's a cult, complete with "literature" that prospective members are required to purchase even before being considered full-fledged members.

[Buster's Uncle]

Uno, would you care to edumacate us on Debil worship?

-It IS a well-done sculpture; I thought the same thing.

[Unorthodox]

I'm pretty sure the Satanic Temple is not affiliated with LeVey's Church of Satan, which is almost certainly what Valka got linked toward.  We would have to define cult much more fully before I would attempt to refute her claim on that point.  At one point, pretty much all religions were a cult.  What is the defining characteristic to acceptance as a religion? 

As for the teachings of most Satanists I know, they tend to not believe in a god, so I can see how someone rather uneducated would call this in line with an atheistic point of view.  They do tend to teach a form of karmic action in the universe and a spiritual side and power of the self, however, which would tend to depart from most atheists.  Differing levels of grandiousity challenging the predominant religious groups is common amongst all.  From the famed black mass of LeVay, to this statue here.  The goal of these acts is usually to draw attention to what they believe to be hollow and antiquated adherence of society as a whole to religious trappings without substance. 

They are more interested in the literal seperation of church and state with these acts than in any real campaign against the churches themselves, however.  As such, this statue had value to them to stand aside the 10 commandments to make a point, but much less value as a statue in their temple, and they are drumming up as much controversy with it THERE as possible until they can find another suitable home to make a point. 

That said, there are always extremists, as the interviewee acknowledged. 

Unfortunately, I'm not up to speed with the Satanic Temple's specific teachings, and am not about to google it here, but they seem to be making a point they are NOT LeVeyan in their beliefs judging by the interview posted, and are rather a more loosely aligned, I guess sect would be the word, of Satanism.     

[Buster's Uncle]

Cult tends not to mean much more than "smallish religion I wish to insult", frankly.

[Valka]

The research I did indicates that purchase of LeVey's books is a requirement to belong to the Church of Satan. That, and some other disturbing elements of behavior and association I found there indicates to me that this can't be anything but a cult. Among other things, cults usually have a "charismatic leader" attached to them (ie. Sun Myung Moon, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and yes, Becky Fischer).

I don't consider Christianity in its generic form to be a cult because no purchase is required to join a prayer group or church, and people are generally not socially isolated from non-Christians. And while it's obvious that brainwashing techniques were used on the children in the Jesus Camp video, I wouldn't consider the average service that consists of a sermon and a few hymns to be cult-like.

Of course some people are rather broad in their definitions of a cult. My own grandmother bought into the notion that Star Trek is a cult because she read some article by an ignorant reporter who had no idea what he was talking about. Ditto about the SCA - somehow people wearing historical costumes and re-creating medieval activities and learning the games, dancing, and skills of the era constitutes belong to a "cult." (personally, I think it's more that some people just can't handle the concept of men wearing tunics and hose; as the filksong goes, "Those men aren't wearing dresses, sir, those are not pantyhose...")

[Elok]

I try to reserve the word for religions that are deliberately misleading, heavily constrain their members' freedoms, focus on extracting as much money as possible from them, and in general disrespect the law.  Among other things.  Wicca, for example, is sometimes called a cult, but it's perfectly harmless AFAICT.  The aforementioned Church of Scientology is my big example of a cult: everything is done for increasingly exorbitant fees, members are pressured to surrender control of their lives in many ways, they routinely lie to the public about what they believe, and the CoS has a long record of blackmail, extortion, espionage, fraud, intimidation, etc.

[Buster's Uncle]

Them dudes is just the WORST.