Religious belief

[Elok]

I've long wanted to proselytize you, but mostly because I view your username as a challenge.

[Unorthodox]

Be more than willing to listen, though it would likely be difficult to actually practice around here. 

I'm aware of an Orthodox church in Salt lake, but that would be a bit of a drive.  I think a Russian Orthodox church is closer, for a fairly disturbing reason, but that's a big de-rail. 

[Geo]

When outdoors, is it possible to spent a Sunday afternoon preachless in the bible belt?

[Elok]

Be more than willing to listen, though it would likely be difficult to actually practice around here. 

I'm aware of an Orthodox church in Salt lake, but that would be a bit of a drive.  I think a Russian Orthodox church is closer, for a fairly disturbing reason, but that's a big de-rail.

I was joking; I've discovered over the years that I'm a terrible missionary.  Though if you have any questions on the matter, I'd be happy to answer them.

[Elok]

Since you asked, though, I should probably make some kind of effort to spread the word, what with the Great Commission and all.  The first thing you should understand about us is that, while we mostly resemble pre-Vatican II Catholicism to outsiders, this is only because they're our closest relative on the Christian Family Tree that the Western world is familiar with.  Catholicism split off from us (or vice-versa, depending on perspective), and everything else you know as Christianity came off from them while we continued doing our own thing for a thousand years.

Some of our significant differences from Catholicism:

We don't do guilt.  Like I've said, sin is a disease for us, not a crime.  We do confession, but I like to think of it as akin to a drunk leaning over a toilet; the thing inside is poisoning you, and unpleasant or not you need to get it out or it will kill you.  We view salvation as a lifelong process, not an instantaneous thing, with relapses to be expected even in the face of continual effort.  All the fasts and sacraments exist as means to the general end of theosis or deification, the reunion with God.  If fasting leads to spiritual pride, or offends someone else, you're better off not fasting.  Omitting an outward sign is not a sin in itself.

In fact, we aren't big on feelings in general.  We inherited a Classical distaste for The Passions.  Big emotive displays, of contrition or joy, are possible signs of self-indulgence.  Moderation and discipline are key, and what you do is more important than how you feel about it.  If the actions are correct, the proper sentiments will follow sooner or later.  There's a reason you never see an icon with a big smile.  It's not that it's wrong to be happy, or sad, or anything else per se.  But we always try to be mindful of purpose and proportion.

We don't do change.  National churches are almost entirely independent, and it takes an enormous amount of effort to get them to work together.  There's no Pope to issue proclamations.  Reform simply doesn't happen quickly, to the extent that it happens at all.  We had no reformation, because ...

We've never had temporal power in our own right.  In Byzantium, we were distinctly subordinate to the Emperors, and the Empire was hemmed in by enemies from the beginning.  By and by, Byzantium got conquered by Turks, and we spent five centuries getting ground underfoot in the south.  In the north, the Tsars treated us much the same way the Emperors had, until they were replaced by the Communists who treated us worse than the Turks did.  There's a powerful note of somberness throughout Orthodoxy as a result of this long, grim history.  However,

We're okay leaving things open.  Catholicism, and to a lesser extent many of its offshoots, loves to define everything precisely.  They have long catechisms that elaborate every last detail.  But, again, forming new doctrine is no easy task for us, and we never fell in love with Aristotle; Thomas Aquinas is no saint of ours.  So, for example, is damnation eternal?  Some Fathers say no.  Others were inclined to eventual universalism, though they were careful to note that they only believed in the possibility, not the certainty.  What exactly happens to the soul after death?  There are a number of speculative theories and traditions.  No one of them is held to be correct, and nobody much cares which one you subscribe to.  There are a lot of non-negotiable beliefs, but if we don't feel that there's an overwhelming case to be made on a question from scripture and patristics, we leave it open.  We're even somewhat vague on God; we practice "apophatic theology," defining God negatively by all the things we're pretty sure he's not.

In many ways, what I've read of Judaism reminds me of us, in general attitude if (obviously) not in doctrine.  This is to be expected; we're closer to that point of common origin than anyone else, and we've both spent a lot of time getting beat down.

[Unorthodox]

I’m sure there’s a lot I would like to be honest.

Where I run afoul of Christianity is in my open mindedness. 

Jesus is great.  But so is Buddha. And Muhammad. And the Loa (voodoo).  Etc.

I’m perfectly happy sitting through mass in the morning and a Buddhist meditation in the evening.

I’ve attempted to help the local baptist church many time, not for any other reason than I highly approve of that specific thing they are doing. (Reminds me it’s time to check in again, new preacher might listen) I’ve also helped the local lds ward with various activities, a lutherine evwnt, and several catholic ones.  All while honoring Native American and pagan practices at home as well.

It all makes sense to me. Most Christians find me heathen though.

[Unorthodox]

And that's what happens when I try to post from the phonnne.  I'll try to edit later. 

[Lorizael]

Re: proselytization, I've never understood the idea of trying to make some particular religion seem appealing such that an individual would want to convert. Because religions are generally claiming to offer a metaphysically and morally correct description of reality, why should a person's personal preferences play into choice of religion at all? Unless you think your gut instincts about what the world is really like are true, in which case start your own religion I guess?

[Elok]

Because human beings are generally moved by their emotions, not logical correctness.  Plenty of people have demonstrably false beliefs, and are highly resistant to conversion by being shown the illogic of their opinions.  Arguing only makes them more entrenched; when their worldview is under assault, they have to bunker down.  Which makes sense, because it's rather disorienting to shuck your whole conception of the universe and rebuild it.  I have no real expectation of converting Uno here, just spreading the word as a duty.  I'm not sure how I would make it more attractive to him emotionally, given how little I know about him; perhaps point out the pageantry of the liturgy or something?

NB I'm not saying Uno, or anyone here, is an illogical person clinging to demonstrably false beliefs, etc.  Extreme example for the sake of argument.

[Buster's Uncle]

Actually, talking about the pageantry isn't a bad tactic with Uno...

[Lorizael]

NB I'm not saying Uno, or anyone here, is an illogical person clinging to demonstrably false beliefs, etc.

Well, we all are.

[Unorthodox]

Actually, talking about the pageantry isn't a bad tactic with Uno...

That is quite true.  I enjoy the beauty of numberous ceremonies and rituals.  But, like I mentioned above, Orthodoxy would be a tough one for me to find locally.  I'll check next time I'm on business travel. 

My favorite Catholic church is in Flagstaff, I used to leave early specifically to attend evening mass there.  It's the most unique blend of Dine and Catholic decor around, even more prevalent mixture than the Spanish missions in California. 

http://www.savenativitybvm.com/icon-at-risk.html

I made the initial molds of some of the more delicate statues back when restoration began, showing crews how to do it for the gargoyles.  Unfortunately, I'm not down there as often anymore, since I no longer work summers there. 

[Yitzi]

In many ways, what I've read of Judaism reminds me of us, in general attitude if (obviously) not in doctrine.  This is to be expected; we're closer to that point of common origin than anyone else, and we've both spent a lot of time getting beat down.

There is one important way that we are very unlike you, though: You said that you don't feel the need to define things precisely, whereas Judaism tries to define things very precisely, at least as far as what we're supposed to do.  (When it comes to metaphysics/doctrine, we don't try to be that precise, but that's because faith is a much less central part of Judaism, as compared to action, than it is in Christianity.)

[Elok]

That's just what I mean; after the age of the Ecumenical Councils (which, seriously, were mostly about politics), we became far less disposed to theological hair-splitting compared to Catholics and Protestants.  Of course we say more about doctrine than Jews do, but we don't have the how-many-angels-dancing traditions of the West.  We're sticklers for correct liturgical practice and observation of our other traditions, OTOH.

[Yitzi]

Ah, so it's not that you're less focused on precision, but that your precision is less belief-oriented.  That is much more like us.