US Presidential Contenders

[Rusty Edge]

Do you think the party establishment prefers Kasich to Rubio, given the probabilities?  I do think it's clearly down to one or the other - and I would have guessed settling for Rubio.

I think most of them would prefer Rubio. Some see Hispanics ( many of which are  entrepreneurs operating off of the books and/or Catholic family values/cultural conservatives ) as a better fit for the GOP than Women and Blacks, and the party desperately needs to broaden it's base and attract younger voters and campaign workers.  As for donors, Rubio makes a great prophet/profit for venture capitalists and foreign adventurers.

Kasich is an old white guy. Not a face of the future, and not so easy to push around. With 18 years' experience on the House Armed Services Committee, he's been around the block on procurement. I'm reminded of the Dudley Moore movie, "Micki and Maude". In the course of being a TV reporter, Moore's character walked off the set in disgust during an interview. The networks immediately called him with job offers. Why? The appearance of integrity. Actual integrity is inconvenient, but the appearance... NOW THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT!

I think that's a point with Kasich. People that actually balance budgets are inconvenient. People that do it buy replacing automatic incarceration with drug treatment and mental health care to reduce total costs are dangerous rebels from a government contractor's point of view.

I figured Kasich was too dull to get anywhere in televised politics, but he's improving. He's positive, he's a uniter, and apparently he's a breath of fresh air to people who are disgusted with the Washington Cruz style partisan gridlock status quo. Or so the general electorate polls would hint.

Well, maybe they insider contributors/contractors/crony capitalists put their money and hopes on Rubio, secure in the knowledge that they can make a deal with Hillary if he fails. Maybe the campaign workers and precinct captains just love hearing that Reaganesque rhetoric again. They always enjoy it.

So yes, I concur with your most of the establishment settling for Rubio analysis.

[Buster's Uncle]

That's a stellar breakdown, I figure.

Too bad, though - as bad as Washington and its system is, Kasich's been there long enough to have a feel for how the broken, corrupt, system works, plus executive experience.  The President needs those to be a good one, and again, we can't afford very much on-the-job training.  Rubio's a strong campaigner, but I gather hasn't even spent enough time at the job to even count full points for his hitch in the Senate.

So, how do you feel about what I keep saying about minimum qualification?

[Rusty Edge]

Uh... I'm coming around to your way of thinking.

I used to say that a president should have experience as a governor, VP, or Senator. Otherwise, they have no experience  working with elitist legislators ( state or federal senators) . You can't get anything done without them.

But I have to admit that there's a tremendous amount of government/administrative/organizational  experience commanding an army. Think Washington and Eisenhower. At that level, they're used to dealing with senators, too.

Anyway, after seeing Bakrama's on the job training, and listening to Marko, I'm convinced somebody needs to have a complete U.S. Senate term under their belts with good attendance, if that's their credential, not get elected and start campaigning for president.


I'm thinking both of them, orators that they are, might have made great VPs, and presidents afterwards.

Going directly from a couple years in the Senate to the campaign trail, not so much.

[Buster's Uncle]

I certainly wasn't ready for forum management until I fell into it, though I've spent far more time on the boards daily than a full-time job since March of 2009 - and I think people who were around at the beginning of WPC would tend to agree that I was a quick study, despite how much noise I made for a few months.  I thought I had a feel for how the community worked, but I was wrong; just hadn't been in there picking up the subtleties long enough, and made five people's  share of mistakes and enemies early.

Not to draw an analogy or anything...

-BU (logged in at AC2: 758d 20h 12m since early 2012)

[Rusty Edge]

I'm watching the debate. I can't understand most of it because they are talking over each other, but it's fun to see [Sleezebag] get a taste of his own medicine.

I think I'll pour myself some rum and drink whenever [Sleezebag] says "trust me" "believe me" or " I have a plan and it'll be fabulous"

Same with Carson starting his answers with returning to a previous question.

Same with Cruze hiding behind the Constitution when he wants to discriminate.

Same with Rubio changing the subject to foreign intervention.

[Rusty Edge]

Well, Rubio didn't give me cause to drink, but the rest of them emptied my glass in short order.

[Buster's Uncle]

That was definitely a formula for blackout drinking...

[Buster's Uncle]

Republicans all wet on waterboarding, former generals say
Olivier Knox  Chief Washington Correspondent  February 25, 2016



An Army captain walks outside unoccupied cells inside Camp 6 at the U.S. detention center at Guantánamo Bay. (Photo: Ben Fox/AP)



Nineteen retired generals and admirals who support Hillary Clinton’s campaign have signed a blistering condemnation of Republican presidential candidates who support the use of interrogation tactics widely regarded as torture. The officers also scolded them for opposing President Obama’s proposal to close the prison for suspected terrorists at Guantánamo Bay.

“The Republican candidates have turned this into a game to see who can seem toughest,” the former officers said in a statement the Clinton campaign provided on Thursday. “Yet, how we combat our enemies and defeat ISIS is not a game, and these proposals would only make us weaker.”

On the campaign trail, Donald [Sleezebag] has called with gusto for interrogating suspected terrorists with tactics widely regarded as torture, including but not limited to waterboarding. Ted Cruz says waterboarding isn’t torture and has pushed for carpet-bombing cities held by the so-called Islamic State. Marco Rubio has  opposed legislation banning the use of torture. All of the Republican presidential candidates oppose Obama’s plan to close the detention facility near Cuba’s southeastern tip.

The statement by the retired brass called Guantánamo “one of the most powerful symbols for terrorist recruitment” and said torture “abandons the principles that this country was founded on, compromises our position of leadership on the world stage, and puts our troops, frontline civilians, and all Americans at risk.”

The retired officers said Clinton “has consistently been on the right side of history on these issues,” both by supporting efforts to close the prison and by asserting “that torture does not work and defies our nation’s values and interests.”

While the group supports the former secretary of state’s presidential aspirations, other former national security officials who have not come out in favor of a candidate have expressed contempt for some of the rhetoric coming from contenders for the Republican presidential nomination.

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a Republican, has explicitly denounced carpet-bombing as a tactic and says the foreign policy discussions on the campaign trail “would embarrass a middle-schooler.” Former Central Intelligence Agency Director Michael Hayden recently said the agency won’t be waterboarding again anytime soon and invited [Sleezebag] to bring his “own damn bucket” if he wants to resume the practice.

Public opinion polls have found that Americans are divided over whether torture works and whether it should be used, though roughly three out of four Republicans think waterboarding and other harsh techniques are sometimes justified.

The CIA has defended its use of interrogation tactics authorized by then-President George W. Bush after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. But the FBI and Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee say they failed to yield any valuable information.

The group of retired officers who signed the statement includes former Army Maj. Gen. Tony Taguba, best known for his scathing 2004 report on abuses committed by U.S. forces at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/republicans-all-wet-on-waterboarding-former-164218614.html


I omitted one of the accompanying photos, because trashy real estate butthole...

[Buster's Uncle]

Speaking of whom -

Donald [Sleezebag] had a rough night. Will it matter?
Jon Ward  Senior Political Correspondent  February 26, 2016



The 10th Republican presidential debate was a good show, as it always is with Donald [Sleezebag] on the stage.

But for the first time in this unprecedented primary election, [Sleezebag] could have used a little more winning. He left the stage in Houston having been pushed around for most of the night.

Standing between the two U.S. senators who remain the only obstacles between him and the GOP nomination, [Sleezebag] was under assault from both Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas for a large part of the two-hour spectacle.

A little more than halfway through the raucous back-and-forth, [Sleezebag] was clearly tiring, and angry at being under so much duress. When the radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt directed another question at [Sleezebag], the businessman and reality TV personality snapped at him in anger.

“Every single question comes to me? I know I’m here for the ratings, but it’s a little bit ridiculous,” he complained.

Rubio was relentless. He pushed, prodded, provoked and badgered [Sleezebag] as no one else during the campaign has been able to do on a stage. Rubio, smiling much of the time, interrupted and talked over [Sleezebag] rather than standing by and waiting for him to insult or belittle him.

And Cruz followed up on many of Rubio’s attacks or criticisms.

Rubio went on the offensive in his first answer, saying that [Sleezebag] had only recently adopted a conservative stance on immigration, and then accusing him of hiring people from outside the country.

“Even today, we saw a report in one of the newspapers that Donald, you’ve hired a significant number of people from other countries to take jobs that Americans could have filled,” he said.

He was referring to a New York Times report that showed that [Sleezebag]’s Palm Beach club, Mar-a-Lago, has brought in hundreds of foreign workers with temporary visas to fill jobs, while denying or ignoring hundreds of applications from American citizens.

Essentially, Rubio was calling [Sleezebag] a hypocrite, given the billionaire’s campaign rhetoric about getting jobs back for Americans who have lost them, especially to immigrants. [Sleezebag] compounded this impression in an interview on CNN after the debate, arguing that “you can’t get American people” for such work.

During the debate, Rubio pointed out that the Times had interviewed a number of people who would have been willing to take the work, “if you would have been willing to hire them to do it.”

Before [Sleezebag] began to counterattack, Rubio demonstrated a tactic that he employed repeatedly to great effect. He launched in on [Sleezebag] from another angle, pointing out that [Sleezebag] was the “only person on this stage that has ever been fined for hiring people to work on your projects illegally.”

“You hired some workers from Poland,” Rubio said. As [Sleezebag] began to reject the accusation as “totally wrong,” Rubio suggested that the audience simply search on Google for the evidence.

Ted Cruz questions [Sleezebag]'s experience, pointing out that [Sleezebag] was on reality TV when other candidates were working in government.

[Sleezebag] did not get a breather. Cruz immediately waded in on him for not being conservative enough on immigration.

“When I was leading the fight against the ‘Gang of Eight’ amnesty bill, where was Donald? He was firing Dennis Rodman on ‘Celebrity Apprentice,’” Cruz said, mockingly.

The Texas senator, armed with his own file of facts, said that [Sleezebag] had donated $50,000 to the politicians who helped pass an immigration reform bill through the Senate in 2013, which Cruz refers to as an “open borders” plan.

“When you’re funding open border politicians, you shouldn’t be surprised when they fight for open borders,” Cruz said, seeking to undercut another of [Sleezebag]’s key claims, that he will have a wall built across the U.S.-Mexico border to stop all illegal immigration.

When the wall was mentioned moments later, CNN’s moderator, Wolf Blitzer, expressed skepticism that [Sleezebag] would actually be able to force the Mexican government to pay for it.

How would he do this? Blitzer asked [Sleezebag]. “I will,” [Sleezebag] said, without elaboration.

Rubio once again started taking shots at [Sleezebag].

“If he builds the wall the way he built [Sleezebag] Towers, he’ll be using illegal immigrant labor to do it,” he said. [Sleezebag] rolled his eyes but did not respond. “The second thing, about the trade war,” Rubio went on, “I don’t understand, because your ties and the clothes you make [are] made in Mexico and in China. So you’re gonna be starting a trade war against your own ties and your own suits.”

Rubio pestered [Sleezebag] eight times about why he didn’t make his ties and branded clothing line in the United States rather than in China and Mexico. Rubio then pivoted quickly to another attack, punching from a different angle.

As [Sleezebag] was objecting that Rubio didn’t know anything about his reasons for manufacturing his clothing line in China, Rubio shot back: “Well, I don’t know anything about bankrupting four companies.”

Then he launched in again. “I don’t know anything about starting a university, and that was a fake university. There are people who borrowed $36,000 to go to [Sleezebag] University, and they’re suing now,” Rubio said, discussing the ongoing lawsuit against the school (now defunct) in which [Sleezebag] has been called to testify under oath.

“That’s a fake school. And you know what they got? They got to take a picture with a cardboard cutout of Donald [Sleezebag].”

[Sleezebag] tried repeatedly to stop Rubio from talking and to get a word in himself, but remarkably, failed to do so. Finally, he went after Rubio for profiting from a home sale.

“Here’s a guy, here’s a guy that buys a house for $179,000, he sells it to a lobbyist — who’s probably here — for $380,000, and then legislation is passed,” [Sleezebag] said.

Rubio came quickly back with another one-liner. “Here’s a guy that inherited $200 million,” he responded. “If he hadn’t inherited $200 million, you know where Donald [Sleezebag] would be right now?”

Back and forth it went for much of the night.

This all led up to the most punishing blow Rubio landed, again refusing to let [Sleezebag] get away with a superficial answer on how he would reform the U.S. health care system. Casually but with a touch of disdain, Rubio pressed [Sleezebag] on what his plan for health insurance reform would be, other than allowing customers to shop across state lines for a plan.

“What is your plan, Mr. [Sleezebag]?” Rubio said. “What is your plan on health care?”

“You don’t know,” [Sleezebag] replied. “The biggest problem — ”

“What’s your plan?” Rubio asked again.

“The biggest problem, I’ll have you know…” [Sleezebag] said, before being interrupted once again.

“What’s your plan?” Rubio said.

[Sleezebag] gave up, instead mocking Rubio for his near-catastrophic debate performance Feb. 6 in New Hampshire, when New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie badgered the Florida senator into repeating himself multiple times in a way that was subsequently mocked as robotic.

But as [Sleezebag] once again invoked purchasing health plans across state lines, Rubio used Christie’s tactic against him.

“Now he’s repeating himself,” Rubio said. The audience cheered loudly and knowingly, acknowledging that Rubio was not only demonstrating a toughness that he had not shown under fire from Christie, but was using against [Sleezebag] the accusation Christie used against him.

[Sleezebag] was flustered.

“Is there anything else you would like to add to that?” CNN’s Dana Bash asked [Sleezebag].

“No, there’s nothing to add,” [Sleezebag] said.

[Sleezebag] then came in for questions over whether he would release his tax returns. He replied that because he is being audited by the Internal Revenue Service, he does not want to release them until the audit is completed, and noted that his taxes have been audited for 12 years straight.

Rubio also made light of [Sleezebag]’s approach to the Middle East peace process. Even radio talk show host Glenn Beck, a big supporter of Cruz, tweeted: “Rubio is killing it.”

Ahead of next Tuesday’s primary voting in a dozen states, Rubio and Cruz both need to arrest [Sleezebag]’s momentum. On Thursday night, each did about as good a job as they possibly could to change the shape of the race.

But [Sleezebag] has proven hard to stop, and the next few days will reveal whether the Houston debate marked a change in the dynamics of the race or simply amounted to a few uncomfortable moments for [Sleezebag] on the way to winning the nomination.

-had-a-rough-night-will-it-matter-062332029.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-had-a-rough-night-will-it-matter-062332029.html

[Buster's Uncle]

You know, for all of my many and varied social faults, I've never been one to waste much time bad-mouthing trashy celebrities who act out in public -and believe me, when it comes to annoying celebrities, I'm a bottomless pit of hate, because I think they damage society/the world in a real way- and I definitely try not to reward the ones who seem to be doing it on purpose -and this scumbag POS has been a textbook example for over 20 years- with the attention they crave so, so much more than their dignity and decency.  That IS all he is.

-But then, suddenly one is making himself everyone's problem in the most direct possible way, and some articles are just too true to pass up.  Left out another pic for reasons that should be a bit obvious by now.

Nearly 20 percent of [Sleezebag]’s supporters say freeing the slaves was a bad idea
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  February 25, 2016



Donald [Sleezebag] meets with supporters at a campaign rally on Monday in Las Vegas. (Photo: John Locher/AP)



Donald [Sleezebag] is riding a wave of anger to the Republican presidential nomination. And according to surveys and exit poll data compiled by the New York Times, there are some unsettling beliefs held by the voters propelling him.

According to a Economist/YouGov national poll conducted in January, nearly 20 percent of [Sleezebag]’s supporters say they do not approve of the Emancipation Proclamation, Abraham Lincoln’s executive order that freed the slaves in the Southern states during the Civil War.

Of the 2,000 U.S. adults who participated in the poll, 13 percent said they either slightly or strongly disagreed with Lincoln, while 17 percent said they weren’t sure.

The same survey found that a third of [Sleezebag]’s supporters believe that Japanese-American internment during World War II was a good idea.

According to a Public Policy Polling survey conducted earlier this month, a third of [Sleezebag]’s supporters in South Carolina say they would “support barring gays and lesbians from entering the country.”

The same poll found that 38 percent “wish the South had won the Civil War,” while 70 percent “wish the Confederate battle flag were still flying on their statehouse grounds.”

And though most Republican primary voters in South Carolina (78 percent) disagreed with the idea that whites were a superior race, only 69 percent of the brash billionaire’s backers did, compared with, say, supporters of Ohio Gov. John Kasich (92 percent) or those of Texas Sen. Ted Cruz (89 percent).

“Mr. [Sleezebag]’s popularity with white, working-class voters who are more likely than other Republicans to believe that whites are a supreme race and who long for the Confederacy may make him unpopular among leaders in his party,” Lynn Vavreck, a professor of political science at UCLA, writes in the New York Times. “But it’s worth noting that he isn’t persuading voters to hold these beliefs. The beliefs were there — and have been for some time.”

The deep-seated sentiments of those supporters are, in part, a result of ignorance and poor education — another voting bloc that [Sleezebag] has successfully exploited.

According to preliminary entrance poll data compiled by CNN, [Sleezebag] had 57 percent support among those with a high school education or less, 37 points higher than any other candidate.

During his victory speech, [Sleezebag] said "We won with the highly educated, we won with the poorly educated."

“We won with young,” [Sleezebag] said during his victory speech after the Nevada caucuses on Tuesday. “We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”

At a rally in Las Vegas on the eve of the caucuses Monday, [Sleezebag] — who graduated from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 1968 — didn’t exactly sound like a presidential candidate, much less one with an economics degree.

“What the hell is caucus?” he said to laughter. “Nobody even knows what it is. Just vote.”

[Sleezebag] then told the crowd he wanted to punch a protester who was being escorted from the event in the face.

“There’s a guy, totally disruptive, throwing punches — we’re not allowed to punch back anymore,” he said. “I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out in a stretcher.”

[Sleezebag] added: “I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell ya.”

After his win in South Carolina, [Sleezebag] was asked on “Fox News Sunday” if he thought he should “act more presidential.”

“Well, probably I do,” [Sleezebag] replied. “I mean, I can act as presidential as anybody that’s ever been president other than the great Abraham Lincoln.”

On Thursday, [Sleezebag] picked up the unofficial endorsement of perhaps the country’s most prominent white supremacist: former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke.

“Voting against Donald [Sleezebag] at this point is really treason to your heritage,” Duke said on his radio show. “I’m not saying I endorse everything about [Sleezebag], in fact I haven’t formally endorsed him. But I do support his candidacy, and I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do.”

“America, you’re stupid,” Salon’s Sean Illing declared. “Donald [Sleezebag]’s political triumph makes it official — we’re a nation of idiots.”

One of the writers of “Idiocracy” — a 1996 cult comedy that imagines a dystopian future so dumb that Luke Wilson is the most intelligent person alive — agreed.

“I never expected #idiocracy to become a documentary,” Etan Cohen, who co-wrote the film with Mike Judge, lamented on Twitter. “I thought the worst thing that would come true was everyone wearing Crocs.”

-supporters-free-slaves-poll-193745865.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/[Sleezebag]-supporters-free-slaves-poll-193745865.html

[Buster's Uncle]

Since I'm already at Pig overload for the month, I won't post/link anything, but wish to mention that I think I've been kind to Mr. Christie in this thread, and today, I feel betrayed for it.  I will never defend him again.

[vonbach]

Nearly 20 percent of [Sleezebag]’s supporters say freeing the slaves was a bad idea

When In doubt call them racists because that will certainly work. The media doesn't get it.
The more they do this the stronger he gets.

[Buster's Uncle]

No, when racists say racist things, they get huffy about being called racists.

Too much of this is too much, and I'm sick of it.  24 hours.  -NO MORE defending racists and racism.-

[Buster's Uncle]

While I appreciate Mr. Rubio's sentiment, I find what he said on Good Morning America this morning to drip with a non-trivial amount of irony:

"In my whole life I've had to fight and I'm going to fight now, because there is no way that the party of Reagan and the conservative movement, I'm going to allow it to be taken over by a con artist," he said."

I'm busting on Reagan, for anyone missing the point.

[Unorthodox]

Delete if you need, but I know that was difficult for you.