scient replied

[ete]

I'll just reply here, I think.

From what I looked into, legally decompiling it isn't an issue. However, resources it might get hazy.

It probably violates the EULA, but we'd be able to pass for fair use if we don't include a bunch of files we're not changing that are required for the game to run. And it's pretty unlikely they'd bother objecting, we're just stirring up business for the gog copy.

I haven't used github much, pretty indifferent. I liked the idea of launchpad because it also included the ability to track bugs in a more robust way than github. Something I had wanted to have set up for SMAC/X project as well.

For example, see here: https://launchpad.net/rivenx

Riven X project doesn't have bug tracking but if you look into launchpad vs github there is some discussion about it.

Perhaps others have a better idea about which we should use. I thought having repository as well as bug tracking system would be a great way to index bugs as well as start decompiling the code. Actually, as I have been working on a few functions I have found a number of bugs in engine. They will happen under rare circumstances but still exist. For example, there is a set of functions designed to index the text files to speed up reading from them which it does. However, the code has bug that breaks the implementation completely so it never works. I have since corrected this. 

Looking around the two riven x repositories, the github one feels monumentally more sleek and functional. Kinda like imgur verses the old image hosts. launchpad's bug tracker does look more advanced, but this project is not one that needs the kind of features it provides, and github's issue tracker is pretty neat in it's way. Minimalist, but in very a good way. Example.

It's also massively more popular which means more people discovering it on github, less friction for getting new devs to post their first bug and join in, more active development of the system, more stability, and has awesome things like this.

If you're thinking an open repository with a site to coordinate, I think Github's the way to go, though of course if you guys prefer something else I'll still help out with bug organization and stuff wherever. If you've not used it much I suggest you have at least a brief play with it, see how it compares to other things you've used. You may be pleasantly surprised.

I've attached the installer script. It's a very easy scripting language to create the installer.

Cool, got it. I'll probably not do this just yet, but it's on my to do list.


@BU: I'm just glad it seems to be working so well .

If there's some kind of organizer badge, perhaps that? Or downloads, I did make the factionpack, and am a good chunk of the way through ACU?

[Buster's Uncle]

Me too 

I'll put a Downloads badge on you now - but you deserve a separate organizer badge, if we can think of an image...

[scient]

As far as I know, you cannot copy right source code. So while it may violate the EULA, I don't think the actual source code will be an issue. However, resources such as icons, images and perhaps text files would fall under this. I did some cursory legal research so I could be wrong.

You've convinced me heh. Github looks like the way to go.

And yes, a big thank you should go to ete for reaching out to me. I had been meaning to rejoin the community and talk about work I've done but always seemed to put it off.

[Buster's Uncle]

Well - the important thing is, we make no profit and do not distribute the game for free or anything like that.  Keep money out of it entirely, and they can still make us stop -they always could have, which is something all fans doing derivative work have to live with- but we can't get in any real trouble.

[scient]

This is true.

Speaking of resources, I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this before my hiatus. I noticed that the linux edition port includes all the video files as MPG as opposed to the proprietary WVE format. With a few minor changes, you can get the windows game to play these if I remember correctly. It also solved the issue where with directx WVE code would mess up and not allowing you to alt-tab after a movie was played.

[Lord Avalon]

...- but you deserve a separate organizer badge, if we can think of an image...

Morgan Industries Employee of the Month?

[Buster's Uncle]

You know, there's occasional but persistent interest among some modders in being able to swap in new movies/ mod the ones in place.

Adding on to that about legality - Firaxis overtly encouraged at least some sorts of modding and didn't specifically exclude going on to fiddle with their code in process.  We're on firmer legal ground than if we were writing Star Trek fanfic.  And the bottom line is, there's no evidence that current rights owner EA cares - and even if they did, they'd be as likely to hire some of you as to step on your projects.

...- but you deserve a separate organizer badge, if we can think of an image...

Morgan Industries Employee of the Month?

What would that look like, besides a big M or Morgan's head?  Or would one of those do?

[ete]

Me too 

I'll put a Downloads badge on you now - but you deserve a separate organizer badge, if we can think of an image...

Cool .

As far as I know, you cannot copy right source code. So while it may violate the EULA, I don't think the actual source code will be an issue. However, resources such as icons, images and perhaps text files would fall under this. I did some cursory legal research so I could be wrong.

Right, I think that fits with my understanding. Let's keep all the text files and peripherals separately in the ACU and AC-Text files repositories, and the decompilation work/collections of addresses and functions and stuff in another.

You've convinced me heh. Github looks like the way to go.

Awesome. Now all we need is names. I created https://github.com/AlphaCentauri-Ultimate a while back, but ACU is more specifically the megapack and it's.. not my favorite name, seems a bit too self-confident, I've just not thought of anything better (except Alpha Centauri 1.5 which yitzi already has plans for). We could use that organization or start a new one. And then we'd want a repository name.

Alpha-Centauri-2? Alpha-Centauri-Open? Alpha-Centauri-Open?

Then I can set it all up, include everyone's publicly posted work, and import a few example bugs/set up the bug tracker for AC uses.

And yes, a big thank you should go to ete for reaching out to me. I had been meaning to rejoin the community and talk about work I've done but always seemed to put it off.

I know that feeling. Glad you're back .


@BU: Either sounds good to me.

[Buster's Uncle]

Lal would work as an organizer, too, maybe less confusingly - but a gold M would be easiest...  Need to think on this...

[scient]

I think we should stay away from numerals like 2 in case hell freezes over and Firaxis/EA/Take Two come to terms and decide to put out an official sequel to SMAC/X heh.

As for name, perhaps a poll. I have been referencing it in my own code as: "Alpha Centauri Redux". However, something like "SMAC/X Open", "Open SMAC/X", "Open Alpha Centauri", or "Alpha Centauri Open" would work too.

[Yitzi]

It probably violates the EULA

Actually, as far as I can tell there is no EULA for the original (non-GOG) version...we'd still need to make sure it fits fair use, though (so nothing that would cut into anyone's business).

I think we should stay away from numerals like 2 in case hell freezes over and Firaxis/EA/Take Two come to terms and decide to put out an official sequel to SMAC/X heh.

Although there's nothing to keep us from eventually coming out with an unofficial sequel to SMAC/X...provided, of course, that we can find the writing and graphics/movies talent to pull off a worthy successor.  (And the coding and game-design talent, but those will be somewhat easier since in those fields we're not trying to replicate one of the best games ever made, just a very good one, and I know that I have at least some capability in those fields, which I don't in movie-making/graphics.)

Also, scient, we will want to combine your fixes into my patch...

[Buster's Uncle]

OpenSMACX -or something of the sort- IS catchy...

[PlotinusRedux]

This is true.

Speaking of resources, I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this before my hiatus. I noticed that the linux edition port includes all the video files as MPG as opposed to the proprietary WVE format. With a few minor changes, you can get the windows game to play these if I remember correctly. It also solved the issue where with directx WVE code would mess up and not allowing you to alt-tab after a movie was played.

I've got that issue fixed already, but a mainstream format is always better than proprietary.  Are the mpg's decent quality?  I tried converting myself but couldn't get decent quality without a massive increase in file size.

[scient]

I'm curious what the issue was, I tracked it down to a function UV2Player::play that has calls to old direct x (4 or 5) functions starting at offset 0x4BF4B0 in SMACX exe. However, I never went further from there.

They're decent quality. They're about 100mb larger than WVE set.

And I agree, mainstream format is better. It looks like for the debug builds of SMAC/X they used uncompressed AVI based on the code.

[ete]

Lal would work as an organizer, too, maybe less confusingly - but a gold M would be easiest...  Need to think on this...

I'm happy with that too.

I think we should stay away from numerals like 2 in case hell freezes over and Firaxis/EA/Take Two come to terms and decide to put out an official sequel to SMAC/X heh.

As for name, perhaps a poll. I have been referencing it in my own code as: "Alpha Centauri Redux". However, something like "SMAC/X Open", "Open SMAC/X", "Open Alpha Centauri", or "Alpha Centauri Open" would work too.

Good point, and right. I'll start a topic for naming.

It probably violates the EULA

Actually, as far as I can tell there is no EULA for the original (non-GOG) version...we'd still need to make sure it fits fair use, though (so nothing that would cut into anyone's business).

Huh, that's worth knowing. I guess it is a pretty old game.

I think we should stay away from numerals like 2 in case hell freezes over and Firaxis/EA/Take Two come to terms and decide to put out an official sequel to SMAC/X heh.

Although there's nothing to keep us from eventually coming out with an unofficial sequel to SMAC/X...provided, of course, that we can find the writing and graphics/movies talent to pull off a worthy successor.  (And the coding and game-design talent, but those will be somewhat easier since in those fields we're not trying to replicate one of the best games ever made, just a very good one, and I know that I have at least some capability in those fields, which I don't in movie-making/graphics.)

Indeed.. . I'm up for playing project manager and filling in bits of any non-art non-programming jobs that need doing, testing, bug organization, writing, suggestions, etc...

Also, scient, we will want to combine your fixes into my patch...

I think scient's plan is to post what he has to test in a couple weeks when he'll have more free time, at which point the two will be merged and united with the set of updated text files I'm working on (https://github.com/etesp/Alpha-Centauri-Textfiles) and possibly ACU if it's ready for a release. I'm not sure the best way to handle merging your different works in a way that'll pave the way for future easy merges since each of you is working in a slightly different way, that's something you guys should all probably discuss.