Modding article on inc gamers about reddit AMA with devs

[BlaneckW]

I think they'll do this for us because they know 1upt is bull[poop].  1upt is a moron solution, AC just damages your units in the stack if you stacked.

[Yitzi]

You're sure it's not just a convention?  I imagine transports have more than one unit per tile, unless it's using a special placeholder or something and the unit is held in null space.  Or air.  I can't believe air units and ground units can't occupy the same tile.

I believe that air units have their own rules, but are also a limited number of units per tile, and land units cannot go on transports (but instead use the embark feature).

But no, I'm not sure it's not a convention; it may be that they did put in the ability to mod for MUPT.

It would take entirely rewriting the game engine, I betcha.

Not the whole game engine, just the parts that deal with unit in tiles.

There must be MUPT-finding code in CBE. There can be a multiple of air units in a city. Civilian units and military units can stack (one of each), trade units are completely differently depicted, so could potentially be 'stacked' as well with a military and civilian unit on top of them (however temporary due to the changing nature of trade routes).

However, "X units of each type per tile" is still very different than unlimited stacking.

It would take entirely rewriting the game engine, I betcha.

There are Civ 5 mods that do change one unit per tile to allowing stacking.

Whether the AI handles this, it introduces new bugs, or even the internal workings of the mod, I have no idea. But, it has been done without rewriting the code. Although I do imagine the skill set to do so was pretty advanced. More advanced than the way AC modders do things with the exception of Yitzi's assembly language patch work.

If there are Civ 5 mods that allow stacking, then the same can presumably be done with BE...and if it can be done without rewriting any code, then it's probably fairly straightforward, possibly easier than many other mods.  (The reason changing MUPT to 1UPT would be so difficult is that it's a different data structure involved; since data structures can't be changed without rewriting the code or utilizing a pre-coded choice, that means that it must use the MUPT-capable data structure even with 1UPT or have a switch; either way, it's likely not that difficult.  Though not knowing much about XML modding I may be mistaken and it may be that XML allows such switches already.)

[BlaneckW]

However, "X units of each type per tile" is still very different than unlimited stacking.

If you say so.  Maybe there should be a practical stacking limit.  One unit just isn't realistic.

[Green1]

Over at CFC, they have a .pdf in the Civ 5 modding section by Derek Paxton of CFC/Fallen Enchantress/ Civ 4 Fall from Heaven fame.

It shows basically what skills are needed, though I am sure the latest iteration of Civ 5 engine BE uses renders much of it obsolete from vanilla Civ 5.

[Yitzi]

However, "X units of each type per tile" is still very different than unlimited stacking.

If you say so.  Maybe there should be a practical stacking limit.  One unit just isn't realistic.

Admittedly, Civ has never had realistic warfare.  (It does not take a modern ship years to cross the Atlantic.)

[Buster's Uncle]

It didn't take Columbus but three months...

[Geo]

The only way I can think of to avoid the "transit takes game years" approach is to work mission-based.
You select location, forces, and perhaps mission time based on endurance, and plonk your task force on the location and start making mayhem (or be defeated in detail of course ).

[BlaneckW]

You select location, forces, and perhaps mission time based on endurance, and plonk your task force on the location and start making mayhem (or be defeated in detail of course ).

Sounds good to me.

[Yitzi]

The only way I can think of to avoid the "transit takes game years" approach is to work mission-based.
You select location, forces, and perhaps mission time based on endurance, and plonk your task force on the location and start making mayhem (or be defeated in detail of course ).

Yeah, I think that's how it would necessarily work.

[Green1]

Average Joe Powergamer just wants to know if he can put a custom faction in. He/she does not care about minutia. Maybe he came up with a cool unit. The historical wargamers came up with this all the time. Maybe just, for example, a WW2 tank will not do for Civ. He wants differences based off the Russian, German, and US ones.

After reading about Civ 5 modding, the custom faction stuff, I understand maybe 20 percent. I know the "gist". Problem is, most of the documentation is old.

On the other hand, the more modern stuff is much more versatile, if a step up in complexity.

As for as AI, I am a fan of AI. I can critique AI with as much fervor as a American Football fan who quit football in high school but some how knows what players to let go and what strategies to use. But, I know nothing of the "situation on the ground", so to speak or what AI modders go through.

But, AI is one of those open ended things. I really do not want to face Kasperov every single time if I play chess. Getting owned too much sucks. Plus, as per a famous 4x developer, the majority of 4x players will never set foot in MP. They want a sandbox challenge and personalities, not so much "killer AI" but AIs with different styles.

[BlaneckW]

But, AI is one of those open ended things. I really do not want to face Kasperov every single time if I play chess.

This isn't chess.  Most TBS games let the AI cheat to make up for the AI.  A chess board isn't that large, and it always starts the same way, so it's not that surprising that it's AI is rather perfected.

[Green1]

But, AI is one of those open ended things. I really do not want to face Kasperov every single time if I play chess.

This isn't chess.  Most TBS games let the AI cheat to make up for the AI.  A chess board isn't that large, and it always starts the same way, so it's not that surprising that it's AI is rather perfected.

You kind of have a point there. It is also like American Football video games on consoles. Of course it looks almost like a TV show and plays well. They have been working on video games on American Football since the Atari 2600.

Now, for the AI of chess or Football, personality would not be needed. Yes, there is the fact the New Orleans Saints have Drew Brees, but Drew Brees in the end is just another unit with good stats.

But a 4x is different. The AI players behind them need to be characters in a geo political play. Masu Masu in Civ 4 is a greedy player in diplomacy. Miriam in AC and Isabella in Civ 4 are aggressive religious nut cases. We still talk about Yang even to this day. But, from my readings Civ:BE is not to that point. What would help would be custom diplomacy language like AC. That would add flavor. I also need to check to see if Civ BE has AI "switches" so one faction would like to go one way, or another in building, aggressiveness, and so forth.

[BlaneckW]

I also need to check to see if Civ BE has AI "switches" so one faction would like to go one way, or another in building, aggressiveness, and so forth.

I put all of them on aggressive anyway.