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New Year, New President Soon, New Thread...
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[Sleezebag] dealt 2 blows today by the Senate, first by not taking up his call for more money for people and then the huge override vote (81 to 13) to overturn his Defense Bill Veto.
[Sleezebag] pouts on twitter....
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There is talk about 12 Senators wanting a protest vote during the Wend Certification Vote in the Joint Congress session. I'm guessing that they all will be up for reelection in 2018 and want to brown nose the [Sleezebag] Voter Base.
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[Sleezebag] makes hour long call this last weekend to attempt to pressure GA Sec of State to
[Sleezebag] said: “So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.”
If [Sleezebag] wasn't inline to be removed on Jan 20, this would be akin to the Ukraine Call and thus up for Impeachment.
-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/[Sleezebag]-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/[Sleezebag)
-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/[Sleezebag]-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/[Sleezebag)
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This part is the most telling and dangerous part of the whole hour long rant
Raffensperger: Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, they — people can say anything.[Sleezebag]: Oh this isn’t social media. This is [Sleezebag] media. It’s not social media. It’s really not; it’s not social media. I don’t care about social media. I couldn’t care less. Social media is Big Tech. Big Tech is on your side, you know. I don’t even know why you have a side because you should want to have an accurate election. And you’re a Republican. Raffensperger: We believe that we do have an accurate election.[Sleezebag]: No, no you don’t. No, no you don’t. You don’t have.
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;lol
He contradicts himself 3 times in this single sentence.
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...
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Say what you will about certain Republicans, but Dick Cheney was the driving force behind this Recent Washington Post Op-Ed piece
[Bold]
All 10 living former defense secretaries: Involving the military in election disputes would cross into dangerous territory[/bold]
Opinion by Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld
Jan. 3, 2021 at 5:00 p.m. EST
Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld are the 10 living former U.S. secretaries of defense.
As former secretaries of defense, we hold a common view of the solemn obligations of the U.S. armed forces and the Defense Department. Each of us swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We did not swear it to an individual or a party.
American elections and the peaceful transfers of power that result are hallmarks of our democracy. With one singular and tragic exception that cost the lives of more Americans than all of our other wars combined, the United States has had an unbroken record of such transitions since 1789, including in times of partisan strife, war, epidemics and economic depression. This year should be no exception.
Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived.
As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, “there’s no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.” Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.
Transitions, which all of us have experienced, are a crucial part of the successful transfer of power. They often occur at times of international uncertainty about U.S. national security policy and posture. They can be a moment when the nation is vulnerable to actions by adversaries seeking to take advantage of the situation.
Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.
We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them. This final action is in keeping with the highest traditions and professionalism of the U.S. armed forces, and the history of democratic transition in our great country.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html
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SPEAKing of too. Nazi. for. Dick. Cheney., a couple insider trading felons seem to have had a bad night in Georgia.
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Now if we can make it through the next 24 hours w/o the treason amounting to anything other than -clown- theater, and no political murders/martial law, I'll be able to relax a little---
-In 15 days - maybe.
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Did you know that Mitch McConnell's House was vandalized recently? Likely by a [Sleezebag] Supporter due to his admitting that Biden won.
Unfortunately, even though Biden will get settled into the White House, we will still have a few more years of BS from the Authoritarian [Sleezebag] Supporters. "Accidents" will happen, Alleged "Crimes" committed by or to people whom opposed [Sleezebag]. Hopefully, the Republican Party will split and the Fascist Trumpaldykes will be in one and the Moderate Republicans will be in the other. As there is no hope of Real Republican Moderates taking back their party, they can only hope to split and reform away from them. THEN, might the Morons whom are following [Sleezebag] will fade away, but not really likely.
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Former 6 term Congressional Representative and 1 term Senator from Arizona, Jeff Flake (R), whom left Public office due to the direction that [Sleezebag] was leading the Republican Party and Lawmakers, wrote an Opinion piece for the New York Times about the up coming Congressional Vote Certification.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/opinion/jeff-flake-[Sleezebag]-republicans.html
He wrote
I once had a career in public life..... and then the rise of a dangerous demagogue, and my party’s embrace of him, ended that career. Or rather, I chose not to go along with my party’s rejection of its core conservative principles in favor of that demagogue. In a speech (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/us/politics/jeff-flake-transcript-senate-speech.html) on the Senate floor on Oct. 24, 2017, I announced that because of the turn my party had taken, I would not run for re-election: the career of a politician that is complicit in undermining his own values doesn’t mean much.
as well as this powerful part
It is hard to comprehend how so many of my fellow Republicans were able — and are still able — to engage in the fantasy that they had not abruptly abandoned the principles they claimed to believe in. It is also difficult to understand how this betrayal could be driven by deference to the unprincipled, incoherent and blatantly self-interested politics of Donald [Sleezebag], defined as it is by its chaos and boundless dishonesty. The conclusion that I have come to is that they did it for the basest of reasons — sheer survival and rank opportunism.
But survival divorced from principle makes a politician unable to defend the institutions of American liberty when they come under threat by enemies foreign and domestic. And keeping your head down in capitulation to a rogue president makes you little more than furniture. One wonders if that is what my fellow Republicans had in mind when they first sought public office.
After he was first sworn into office, he was witness to Al Gore's presiding the Joint Congress for the Certification of the Vote that he had lost. And also witness to the Peaceful Transfer of power, which was both "profound and ordinary."
Mr. Gore said this: “May God bless our new president and new vice president, and may God bless the United States of America.”Mr. Gore’s was an act of grace that the American people had every right to expect of someone in his position, a testament to the robustness and durability of American constitutional democracy. That he was merely doing his job and discharging his responsibility to the Constitution is what made the moment both profound and ordinary.
Vice President Mike Pence must do the same today. As we are now learning, a healthy democracy is wholly dependent on the good will and good faith of those who offer to serve it.
Today, the American people deserve to witness the majesty of a peaceful transfer of power, just as I saw, awe-struck, two decades ago. Instead, we find ourselves in this bizarre condition of our own making, two weeks from the inauguration of a new president, with madness unspooling from the White House, grievous damage to our body politic compounding daily.
My fellow Republicans, as Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger of Georgia has shown us this week, there is power in standing up to the rank corruptions of a demagogue. Mr. [Sleezebag] can’t hurt you. But he is destroying us.
Again, not all Republicans are evil or just plain bad. Did he do enough after leaving office, possibly not, but as I don't have any clue as to what he has or hasn't done off of the public stage, but he is trying. Should he have tried to stay in and be a voice on the inside , maybe, but he would have also been shouting in the wilderness over the last two years.
But it IS a start, just hope it's not too late, but I'm almost certain that it is...
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No sale. It's still, since Reagan, the party of bad-mouthing and blaming the other guy - minority vote electoral college presidents and not deeply ashamed of that - only 2/3rds intellectual lightweights if you go all the way back to include Nixon.
I can respect a thoughtful conservative, but that doesn't describe the party leadership going back forty years. This crap right now is the fruits of reaganism - NO. SALE.
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No, but with spine and balls...
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AZ Ballots under Objection, both houses break to debate.
will they object for every state that voted Biden or just the 5 that they wanted?
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McConnell had an excellent Speech in Senate.
Some reports of some protesters trying to gain entry to the Capitol Building
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I've seen video. There's an actual swastika flag in one.
This is where we are.
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Broke glass in Capitol Building Door
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Both Chambers have adjourned due to safety concerns
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Gunfire in the chamber.
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First live coverage I found on YouTube:
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Tear Gas being used and Nat Guard might be called in, Secret Service and others moving to Cap Building
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Shots fired, Nat Guard being called in, Protesters watered
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(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692363390370185216/796477546321412126/IMG-20210106-WA0003.jpg)
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:-[
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Did anyone else catch Congressman Adam Kinzinger (R) Illinois talking to Lester Holt all frank about what he thought of this while angry? Great stuff.
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:-[
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Did anyone else catch Congressman Adam Kinzinger (R) Illinois talking to Lester Holt all frank about what he thought of this while angry? Great stuff.
No, Link??
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Live coverage above - half hour ago. Best I can do.
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np, :p
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Elok, you know I love you, pal...
Is he still harmless?
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Elok, you know I love you, pal...
??
Is he still harmless?
Whom, [Sleezebag], never.... but he is a WAHHHHHnabeee....
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Yes, I'm gay for Elok - whatever. Keeps saying the
Pig TRAITOR is too incompetent to be dangerous.
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"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."
-Amendment 25, Section 4.
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Pipe bomb found on the grounds.
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Arrest the Traitor. Today.
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Yes, I'm gay for Elok - whatever. Keeps saying the Pig TRAITOR is too incompetent to be dangerous.
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"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."
-Amendment 25, Section 4.
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Pipe bomb found on the grounds.
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Arrest the Traitor. Today.
I called for it years ago...
[Sleezebag] to Mob: lies, lies, GO HOME, lies
Mob to [Sleezebag]: No, we stay for you....
A Mob can not be controlled
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[Sleezebag] to Mob: lies, lies, GO HOME, lies
I literally just watched that video.
Arrest the Traitor.
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DHS saying that due to Pres Response, they won't be able to de-escalate peacefully now.
Possible devices planted in Capitol and will need to be thoroughly safe'ed before Congress can re-enter
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I tell you what, Biden (or Harris, if something happens to Joe) had better not ever pardon [Sleezebag]
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Sen. Jeff Merkley tweeted a photo of the electoral ballots on the Senate floor. Merkley noted that Senate staff "rescued" the ballots before rioters entered the Senate floor.
He speculated, "if our capable floor staff hadn't grabbed them, they would have been burned by the mob."
Electoral college ballots rescued from the Senate floor. If our capable floor staff hadn’t grabbed them, they would have been burned by the mob.
— Senator Jeff Merkley (@SenJeffMerkley) January 6, 2021
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[Sleezebag] can now claim to be the First (and hopefully, only) President to be Impeached TWICE!!!
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Has there been crime enough done to prosecute yet?
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My wimminz are troubled.
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The shot woman has died, breaking from NBC.
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they will make her a Martyr for the Cause...
Facebook flags and deleted Trumps message due to the Lies
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Below, alleged to be what's displaying on Twitter in place of tweets from the Traitor.
-When Facebook and Twitter nut up like this - you're going to prison.
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Oh this is funny - alleged on Facebook:
also pence unfollowed trump on Twitter
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Congress vowing to finish this tonight, to make [Sleezebag]'s Delaying tactic a huge miscalculation...
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[ninja'd]
E_T, what do you think should happen now, noting that 22 members of Congress have called for impeachment already?
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...
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[ninja'd]
E_T, what do you think should happen now, noting that 22 members of Congress have called for impeachment already?
I think he needs to resign or have the 25th invoked, but even if he is impeached, nothing else will happen before the 20th at noon
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One thing I'm asking is, When BLM protest happened, there were troops stationed and it was essentially peaceful. Where were they today, esp with the knowledge of the reactionaries going to attempt something? Especially with a Joint Session as well as the VP attending. Why were they not present?
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Maybe they're not stupid.
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Wait, I misread that as asking where BLM was.
I sorta expected this riot, as I indicated last night - but I'm shocked they made it inside. Rats smelled. Suspicion that a lot of people go to jail, not just the redneckkks wrecking the place up, but cops and such.
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no, during the BLM March, they had troops deployed to combat any possible violence, which mostly did not happen.
But today, even after things started, [Sleezebag] delayed quite a bit to even call out the Guard, etc. Why were they at least not preposition-ed to rapidly react to any possible Mob actions?
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lot of people go to jail, not just the redneckkks wrecking the place up, but cops and such.
This has aged well so far...
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[ninja'd]
E_T, what do you think should happen now, noting that 22 members of Congress have called for impeachment already?
I think he needs to resign or have the 25th invoked, but even if he is impeached, nothing else will happen before the 20th at noon
14th instead of 25th -insurrection- but best of all, nut up and impeach tonight.
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Oh - the ordinary Sith is now speaking Jedi again as his way out.
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Twitter Locks out [Sleezebag] for 12 hours, Facebook for 24 hours.
Many WH staff, including Chief of Staff are leaving
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Siigh. Maybe they mean to grind through the
treasons objections, and then do the impeachment while the great unwashed is asleep - or maybe they're waiting for a 25th action to come through. There's a report that actual Cabinet Members are actually discussing it...
There's also been a spate of resignations - Chief of Staff to the First Lady, and people like that you never heard of, but still - ship's definitely sinking.
I can't claim I did Nazi this coming.
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they will need the VP as well. He's busy in Joint Congress doing vote counts
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3 more people have died
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Oh?
they will need the VP as well. He's busy in Joint Congress doing vote counts
It's the only way he'll ever get to claim he was President a little - I don't think he'll mind hanging around for it.
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-I mean, they're talking on the treason channels about it being Antifa in disguise did it - obvious step two is a Martial Law declaration -as the WH set up in a weird press release last night- and Traitor can't be still there in the morning to try it and kill even more people. Period.
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@stephenfhayes
· 54m
NEWS: An hour before Congress reconvened, President [Sleezebag]'s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, left a voicemail for Sen. Tommy Tuberville, imploring him to delay & promising new information tomorrow.
The problem? Giuliani left his msg on another senator's voicemail.
https://thedispatch.com/p/giuliani-to-senator-try-to-just-slow
Sounds like conspiracy. I'm fine with Rudy going to prison with the rest.
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How about this (although it won't happen, it would be nice):
VP Pence: Mr President, I'm here to inform you that you did win an actual Election...
[Sleezebag]: I knew I had won
Pence: Sorry Sir, not that election
[Sleezebag]: Then Mike, what election did I win?
Pence: The Vote to Invoke the 25th Amendment, you overwhelmingly won the vote to toss you out like a dawg.... Your Fired!!!
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They're grinding now. The objection to Georgia was not entertained due to lack of a senator;
Treason Barbie Kelly Loeffler announced she was dropping her objection during the speeches earlier.
I, myself, am fading crazy fast. Wonder how all these old people are bearing up.
Michigan objected and not entertained for lack of a Senator as I write. Mississippi up now.
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Nevada objected, no senator. Somebody's done a man's job in the Senate.
They might get this in the next half hour. New Mexico up now.
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$#@! Pennsylvania had a senator. I'm going to bed.
Everyone but Bernie, Liz and the Squad is fired if the Pig is still in office when I wake up....
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Impeachment will come tomorrow, after finishing the electoral Certification of Biden's win and then some sleep. Then they can impeach if the 14th or 25th isn't invoked
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Senate bypassed debate and has gone straight to vote:
Cruz; Hauly (sp); Hyde-Smith; Lommas (sp); Marshall; Scott of FL; Toverville(sp) all vote Aye for the objection.
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Ugh.
They finished certifying and went home. Let the firings begin.
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at 4 AM?? and after this BS, they need a day at least to see if Pence is going to do things (i.e. the 25th). But I agree... SOMETHING should have been brought forward during the Joint Session. If anything to recess for a day and then to start to consider Articles of Impeachment AND/OR A Congressional Censure.
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Rumour&opinion on my side of the puddle is that it won't come that far. The GOP will tough out the next two weeks with the current president still in the seat.
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Many Cabinet Members might leave before they can agree to invoke the 25th. As their interim replacements/deputies might not be able to, legally, as they had not yet been confirmed by the Senate, that could cause an issue it they tried before the 20th
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Rumour&opinion on my side of the puddle is that it won't come that far. The GOP will tough out the next two weeks with the current president still in the seat.
Yeah, well that's no fun.
This was, In My Arrogant Opinion, a plot that only half executed because there was no discernable left counter-protestor presence. The White House released a very strange -not written very clearly at all- statement late Tuesday night about Antifa=terrorism and Pig pledges to protect all that is good from The Enemy.
Step Three: Martial Law - and Profit!
What happened yesterday makes A Lot More Sense if one assumes they were counting on a few hundred people w/ dreadlocks and baseball bats who didn't show up. The utterly lame talk on sundry reactionary propaganda "news" channels that it was Antifa thugs in disguise makes more sense if you see it as trying to steer the plot back on track. The appearance that many of the capitol police were not trying too god-awful hard to do their jobs makes more sense if redneckkks showing their butts in Pelosi's office was not the original plan, but improv.
Again, they're still screaming Antifa on Fox, and Step Three could still happen while the Traitor is in the White House.
Straightforward impeachment and conviction last night was the simplest and surest way to block that.
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@AOC
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58m
If the 25th amendment is not invoked today, Congress must reconvene immediately for impeachment and removal proceedings.
@SenSchumer
·
1h
What happened at the U.S. Capitol yesterday was an insurrection against the United States, incited by President [Sleezebag].
This president must not hold office one day longer.
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No fun, indeed.
Can you imagine the glee on say a quarter of the world's national leaders if an American president is literally marshalled out of office yelling and screaming?
What are the chances of prosecution of a former US president for inciting riots?
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Close to zero.
I do not say that with chipper approval. I say it while advocating running Nancy Pelosi out of public life as a collaborator 18 years ago.
The Pig should go to prison for just what he did Saturday, and there is no justice in a country where Dick Cheney is going to die a free man.
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It seems Georgia has turned Democratic now for the foreseeable future.
With Congress AND Senate in his hands, any predictions what soon-to-be president Biden hopes to accomplish with a sort of free run for the next two years (assuming the tide will turn in either Congress or Senate next time some of its members' seats are up to grabs).
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This is the Democrats you're talking about. With the Presidency and both houses of Congress, history indicates they're already planning the circular firing squads.
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Yeah, I get that.
But what do you think Biden will like to accomplish, save for fighting Covid, restoring international commitments, and perhaps giving the Affordable Care Act more teeth again.
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I honestly view him as a man of little conviction(s), given his career. His appointments to cabinet and other positions have been somewhat left of what I expected, which is a pleasant surprise, but I'm not sure he has an awful lot of policy goals beyond Do the Work of Governing -great- and Settle Things Down -Neville Chamberlin-.
It might could work, doing a quiet Eisenhower Presidency, if only the rest of the Democrats had the strength and guts to deal with Joe McCartney, which they do not. We got us a Nazi problem, and Chamberlin ain't the guy for the moment, as Bakrama already showed.
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It seems Georgia has turned Democratic now for the foreseeable future.
Narrowly and only in the Senate and only because of [Sleezebag]'s BS. If he had not continued on this Vote BS, the Senate seats would still be Red (or one would have been). GA Republicans are not happy about that at all.
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Sounds like unhappy undercurrent in US society will fester a couple years longer then.
Thanks E_T. I hadn't thought of checking the political origins of Georgia's Representatives.
Then I say its save to predict the second half of Biden's term won't be more or less free ride anymore.
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Elok, you know I love you, pal...
Is he still harmless?
I don't recall saying harmless, more useless and inert. He has always done some measure of harm, mostly by being crooked and raising the temperature. I mean that he is not anything like the stuff successful tyrants are made of, and I stand by that. This was, by my reckoning, a brilliant self-own, the nail in his coffin; it associated him with open and shocking unrest and forced him to give up his quest for the presidency.
Cruz and Hawley were never going to succeed, but this cut short even the pathetic effort, and gave everyone in Congress perfect and reasonable cover for turning against him. Any hopes he might have had for a future career are now dead, because everything he says will now be associated with the images of lawless cretins swarming up the walls and a half-naked guy with a furry hood posturing from the podium.
Worse than that, [Sleezebag]'s appeal was to law-and-order, and his boys just bull-rushed through police to do something clownish, getting four people killed to no purpose. He's a take-charge guy who lost control of his movement, then bashfully backed down and distanced himself when they decided to take action during his big speech. Before this, he might have tried to dominate the GOP from exile. Now? He's done. He can command a fringe of thugs and lunatics, but all they can do is primary vulnerable candidates so they lose to Dems. If that; this is going to be profoundly toxic.
If he had an ounce of courage, he might be dangerous as a terrorist leader, but as we've seen, he'll never take responsibility for anything risky, and Trumpism is all about [Sleezebag] so he can't be replaced. Unless someone with his talent for sucking attention and brains appears. His army of lost boys will drift off by and by to join some other cause once it becomes clear that he's not doing a blamed thing. The best hope for his movement is for him to die or be incarcerated so he can't be blamed for inaction.
At least, that's my prediction.
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This is the fellow who spoke so frankly on the phone to Lester Holt yesterday. He has, since this vid, called today for invoking the 25th, but that doesn't seem to be on YouTube yet.
-I'd add that 25th doesn't bar the Pig from all office forever, so an impeachment conviction is one million percent better...
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This is the Democrats you're talking about. With the Presidency and both houses of Congress, history indicates they're already planning the circular firing squads.
Which causes the Swing back to something like [Sleezebag] afterwards...
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Yes. That's generally how Democrat firing squads end, yes.
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Another profile in Congressional courage: Speaker Pelosi sez
If the vice president and the cabinet do not act the congress may be prepared to move forward with impeachment
Yesterday the president of the United States incited an armed insurrection against America.
In calling for this seditious act, the president has committed an unspeakable assault on our nation.
This is urgent, this is an emergency of the highest magnitude,
Pelosi stresses, adding [Sleezebag] is a very dangerous person who should not continue in office.
I use "courage" with heavy sarcasm, to be clear, 'cause she and a lot of others are waiting for Mike freakin' Pence to do it for them...
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Also, word is that the House Sergeant at Arms has offered his resignation...
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Lori? Robot Singularity Blob position?
Uno? Whatever the heck it is you are position?
Rusty? Please don't be sick any longer...
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Arnie posted this over at WPC Discord:
25th it looks like could just a fr3akin' mess
[Sleezebag] gets to respond and delay the whole process for 4 days, after which the VP has to re-submit a letter again co-signed by the cabinet. [Sleezebag], being [Sleezebag], he will use those 4 days to declare he's still president and fire the entire cabinet, throw the process into the courts.
it'll be a circus
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Rusty? Please don't be sick any longer...
;stupid
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This is the quickest way to impeach [Sleezebag] (again) and remove him from power
Are Republicans the party of violent fascist insurrection or not? Is [Sleezebag] their king forever, or do they want to move on?
Noah Berlatsky New York 20 minutes ago
(https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/01/07/20/newFile.jpg?width=990)
Vice President Mike Pence and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi read the final certification of Electoral College votes cast in November’s presidential election during a joint session of Congress, after working through the night, at the Capitol on 7 January 2021 in Washington, DC (J Scott Applewhite – Pool/Getty Images)
There are less than two weeks left in Donald [Sleezebag]’s term. Joe Biden will replace him as president on January 20. Is it worth impeaching him and removing him from office with that little time left?
Many Congressional Democrats, including Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, believe the answer is “yes”. And they are correct. [Sleezebag]’s increasingly desperate, irresponsible, and frankly seditious behavior is a threat to democracy and to the lives and safety of Americans. More, removing him from office now sends a message to him and his followers that open sedition has consequences. Refusing to hold [Sleezebag] accountable signals to his violent, authoritarian followers, and to [Sleezebag] himself, that they can attack democracy with impunity. Refusing to impeach now could have dire consequences on the immediate and long-term future.
As long as [Sleezebag] is in office, he retains a great deal of power to do harm. His claims that the election was stolen have encouraged Wednesday’s attack on the US Capitol as well as demonstrations at statehouses across the country, and those may well continue. He’s also egged on other Republican lawmakers to cosign his baseless claims about election fraud. One of his chief sycophants, Florida House representative Matt Gaetz, shamelessly lied yesterday on the floor of Congress, claiming without evidence that the insurrection was the work of left-wing agitators disguised as [Sleezebag] supporters.
This dangerous rhetoric is designed to justify more attacks and shield perpetrators from prosecution and blame. It is easy to imagine [Sleezebag] himself picking up these arguments, or calling even more explicitly for violence as the week goes on and he becomes more desperate. He may also try to pardon his supporters who engage in violence as long as he retains power. The inauguration itself will be a particular flashpoint, and [Sleezebag] supporters are almost certainly already plotting to disrupt it with violence. Nor will the threat from [Sleezebag] necessarily end after the inauguration. [Sleezebag] retains a large following, and he’s reportedly said he may run for the Republican nomination again in 2024.
Removing [Sleezebag], and delegitimizing him, then, is an imperative. That’s why Schumer called for his removal earlier today. “The quickest and most effective way — it can be done today — to remove this president from office would be for the vice president to immediately invoke the 25th Amendment,” Schumer suggested. “If the vice president and the Cabinet refuse to stand up, Congress should reconvene to impeach the president.”
The 25th Amendment allows the vice president and a majority of the Cabinet to declare the president unfit for office, and relieve him from power. The president could dispute the removal and appeal to Congress, but by the time the process worked itself out, [Sleezebag]’s term would be over.
The advantage of the 25th Amendment is that it could, as Schumer says, be invoked immediately. It’s quick. The disadvantage is that it’s never been used before, and the process is relatively opaque. It’s not clear whether [Sleezebag]’s own Cabinet would agree to it. It’s also generally seen as a process meant to be put in place if the president is unwell or physically unable to perform duties. Depending on how Pence and the Cabinet framed the removal, it might or might not be a strong rebuke of [Sleezebag]’s deliberate efforts to seize power and destroy our democracy.
Impeachment, on the other hand, is designed to clearly list a president’s offenses, and hold him accountable for them. Impeachment could also bar him from office permanently. Impeachment would be a strong, powerful rebuke, with real consequences for [Sleezebag]’s inflammatory actions. Given the uncertainty of the 25th Amendment outcomes, there’s good reason for Congress to pursue it as quickly as possible.
And in fact there is a lot of support for pursuing impeachment in the House, where the process begins. Minnesota Representative Ilhan Omar started to draw up articles yesterday. David Nir, the political director at DailyKos, has been tabulating Representatives who have come out in support of the proposal; he’s already counted 61 as of this writing, with more coming in practically every hour. Speaker Pelosi has also said she wants to move forward with impeachment if the vice president and the Cabinet don’t remove the President.
Impeachment in the House requires only a majority, and it’s likely that Democrats in the chamber could pass it. Removal requires a 2/3 vote in the Senate, which means it would need somewhere around 19 Republicans to vote for it, presuming unanimous Democratic support.
That would be difficult, but it’s far from clear it’s impossible. Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell yesterday rebuked [Sleezebag] for his “sweeping conspiracy theories” and refusal to acknowledge the election results. Many Republican Senators were clearly exasperated and angry at [Sleezebag] enablers like Texas Senator Ted Cruz and Missouri Senator Josh Hawley, who objected to certifying the electoral vote.
At the least, a removal vote would force Republicans to either embrace or reject [Sleezebag] as he tries to retain control of the party for the next four years. Are Republicans the party of violent fascist insurrection or not? Is [Sleezebag] their king forever, or do they want to move on? It’s worth making McConnell and his cronies answer those questions.
Impeachment and removal alone aren’t a sufficient response to the ongoing assault on our democracy, of course. The people who invaded the Capitol should be arrested and prosecuted. [Sleezebag] minions like Cruz, Hawley, and Gaetz should be censured by their colleagues, or better, expelled from Congress for their efforts to reject electors and overturn a democratic election. Our entire electoral system needs to be strengthened by expanding the franchise, investing in election security and administration, and eliminating the antiquated electoral college.
There is not much controversy about the seriousness of the insurrection at the Capitol yesterday. Right-wing, pro-[Sleezebag] rioters attempted to halt the certification of Biden as the next president, and forced Congress to recess as members evacuated. The insurrection was clearly inspired by [Sleezebag], who has been claiming for weeks, with no evidence, that he is the rightful winner of November’s election, and that Biden engaged in massive vote fraud. There are reports that [Sleezebag] resisted sending the National Guard to defend the Capitol against rioters.
Our democracy is as fragile as it has been at any time since the Civil War. We need to begin the work of repairing it as soon as possible. Impeachment and removal can’t be the end of that. But they should be the start.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/[Sleezebag]-impeach-25th-amendment-how-b1784141.html
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and Option #3) some talk about "Boxing him in" for the 13 days, like was done to Nixon on his final days before he had resigned. Helped to take arbatary Military actions off the table
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What is "Boxing him in"?
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a very hard thing to do with winy brats....
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I note that the Traitor has pardon power and has done many, many crimes. -This week.
Perhaps it is best he no longer have pardon power, like, today.
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Also? Arnelos always struck me as not a Nazi at all - I love conservatives you can talk to/productively argue with, and I wish he'd stick his head in here. I've invited him before, and now do so again.
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Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao has resigned, effective the 20th.
Yes, effective the 20th. That Mitch's wife.
Profiles in Courage.
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Also? Arnelos always struck me as not a Nazi at all - I love conservatives you can talk to/productively argue with, and I wish he'd stick his head in here. I've invited him before, and now do so again.
Forwarded...
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Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao has resigned, effective the 20th.
Yes, effective the 20th. That Mitch's wife.
Profiles in Courage.
gives her time to still be there to help invoke the 25th
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Simon and Schuster dropped an impending book deal with the head of the Sedition 7... hit him in the pocketbook...
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Aro again.
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It ain't gonna be the 25th, I sure don't think. This attached seems to be as of about a half hour ago.
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https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/house-democrats-impeachment-plans/index.html
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It ain't gonna be the 25th, I sure don't think. This attached seems to be as of about a half hour ago.
I don't see any minister in that list.
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Look for plain "Secretary". Two full cabinet secretaries, Chao and DeVos.
Congressional leaders couldn't get VP Pence on the phone at all yesterday. It ain't gonna happen.
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-Also, I misread Chao's resignation statement - effective Monday.
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50 grand reward for info on certain people whom were photographed in the Capitol Building, as they likely set charges inside the Capitol Building as well as took sensitive materials...
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BU, here is a "Ray of Sunshine" for you to think about:
It is uncertain, but very likely that it would NOT be legal, IF [Sleezebag] attempted to Pardon himself.... SO...
[Sleezebag] resigns, Pence takes Oath of Office, Pardons [Sleezebag]...
Same possibility if he is removed via 25th or impeachment....
Just a thought...
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I don't think Pence would do [poop] in that general direction, at this point. He's largely trying to bunker up and get out alive.
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Also? The cop died last night.
They're cop killers.
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and if the "killers" had been Black...
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I don't think Pence would do [poop] in that general direction, at this point. He's largely trying to bunker up and get out alive.
I never thought that you were so naive...
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Possible House Floor vote on 2nd impeachment likely on Monday
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-lawyer-sidney-powell-seeking-more-than-13-billion/2021/01/08/ebe5dbe0-5106-11eb-b96e-0e54447b23a1_story.html]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dominion-sues-pro-[Sleezebag]-lawyer-sidney-powell-seeking-more-than-13-billion/2021/01/08/ebe5dbe0-5106-11eb-b96e-0e54447b23a1_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dominion-sues-pro-[Sleezebag)
In a 124-page complaint filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Dominion said its reputation and resale value have been deeply damaged by a “viral disinformation campaign” that Powell mounted “to financially enrich herself, to raise her public profile, and to ingratiate herself to Donald [Sleezebag].” The defendants named in the lawsuit include Powell, her law firm and Defending the Republic, the organization she set up to solicit donations to support her election-related litigation.
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Well look, I'm guessing about what Pence is "thinking", but I saw him on TV banging the wooden hammer and pronouncing Joseph R. Biden of Delaware President Elect. You can guess, Easily and with Very High Confidence how that has played to his Tea Party base.
He's dead as a politician now.
My thinking, Wednesday night, was this is his only chance he'll ever have to have it say President on his tombstone. I'll stand behind that, but that boy done had himself a serious scare, and he's probably figuring it might make a big difference in how soon that tombstone goes up, or at least how hard his Secret Service detail has to work for the rest of his life. -And he's only 61; probably two or three decades difference we're talking about.
And what with the cabinet resignations and all...
Beats me, but seems to calculate out that if there was zero sign yesterday of 25th happening, it ain't happening at all.
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And my hopes on the impeachment end are not good, largely the same reasoning wrt promptness. It needed to happen Wednesday night past or it's just a political gesture -a necessary one, lest future losers try the same stunt- but next week ignores the most important reason, removing the powers of President from a violent Traitor, instanter, and also lessens the chances of Impeachment actually happening and also of the Senate confirming.
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And with all respect to Mr. Biden, out of an abundance of caution for my own life, I will not be in attendance at the Inauguration.
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I would not be at all shocked if the inauguration is not open to public.
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I would not be at all shocked if the inauguration is not open to public.
It was already going to be extremely thin as well as the Parade afterwards being virtual, due to C-19, so...
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Been hearing something about a "Million MAGA March" for the 20th... I sure hope there's at least 1,000 armored po-po waiting, no matter where the ceremony.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347559049668268035
Parody song video I can't imbed at the link. Worth clicking.
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Been hearing something about a "Million MAGA March" for the 20th... I sure hope there's at least 1,000 armored po-po waiting, no matter where the ceremony.
If they do show up, there's not really a good outcome.
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Agreed.
Nothing like a million, of course, but one percent of that is very bad news.
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After events on the 6th, a lot of them will not be there. Many people from before have lost jobs and with reduced stimulus checks (which was very likely part of the plan for the increased amount that [Sleezebag] wanted), they will not have the additional stones for hotel rooms as well as the 20th is typically one of the coldest days in DC. My Sister worked one of the First Aid Tents, right at the Capitol Steps, for Obama's first Inauguration. She was treating Hypothermia and other cold related things... and it was COLD that day
Any word on Weather Forecast for 20th?
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Plan for the whole million, hope for zero Nazis.
I do.
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Apropos of what I said about Pence's situation, here's Lindsey Graham at the airport today, not having a pleasant walk.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347625488785797121
CC Mitch: You're dead to the full-Nazi element anyway; you have a sure way to get the Traitor Pig out of your hair for good.
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1347243901535576067
Sorry for all the Twitter video links, but this one is of OJ -yes, OJ- making what I believe is a correct legal point that all the Wednesday Capitol Nazis are eligible to be charged under the felony murder rule.
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I kinda wonder... 3 out of 4 protestor deaths were appearantly related to health problems.
How many were in that intruding crowd in the Capitol? A couple hundred? Even if they rotated, perhaps a bit over a thousand? That's quite a high mortality rate for such a relatively young group of protestors.
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Dunno. One is alleged to have died of tazering his own balls. I imagine there's a story to go with that, but I have not heard it.
I don't THINK the accidental deaths count, depending on a multitude of details - but everyone convicted of a felony in that time and place, plus any related conspiracy convictions, get a piece of the woman who was shot and the cop-killing.
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Dunno. One is alleged to have died of tazering his own balls.
Hope he is a candidate for a Darwin Award
I imagine there's a story to go with that, but I have not heard it.
I don't THINK the accidental deaths count, depending on a multitude of details - but everyone convicted of a felony in that time and place, plus any related conspiracy convictions, get a piece of the woman who was shot and the cop-killing.
Not all were young, some of those [Sleezebag] supporters are seniors (or close to it)
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Twitter has Perma-Banned [Sleezebag] ;BANNED!
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As of about a half-hour ago. You beat me here reporting by about five minutes because I had to go tell Mom first.
I love the symbolism. I hate what it takes for a big operation to finally do the right thing. He's first on the list of folks OJ pointed out are legally murderers - and that's in addition to th' sumbitch killed Mary Ann.
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Cap's speech is, once again, on-topic.
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Ooh, and while I'm in that folder...
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This one's about a year old, but the truth still stings...
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Included in Twitter’s statement, explaining why it banned [Sleezebag]: “Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021.”
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(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692363390370185216/797273365542993950/20210109_021237.jpg)
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I've been trying to explain that to two members earlier this week, and several cousins talkin' treason on Facebook more recently.
I would have posted that one years ago, seriously, but you thems some words you may not say here...
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I've been trying to explain that to two members earlier this week,
There's a reasonably good chance you're talking about me. In my case, no, there is no First Amendment issue here. It's about how you handle disagreement, and I've said everything that had to be said on that subject, in private.
I don't have a track record of showing interest in politics threads. Once upon a time I didn't even do well with Star Wars threads, so I've stayed away from here. Only extraordinary events, demonstrating exactly how right I was, would cause me to even look at the Rec Commons. I haven't even looked at the rest of this thread yet. I wonder what I'm going to see.
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I read the thread.
Assassination of some Democrat political leaders is a scenario I calculated could occur, in the event of a Biden win. There was that abduction threat to a Governor in the preceding months. Although, I've hoped that the FBI and other 3 letter agencies would exercise some independence from [Sleezebag], and go after the thugs. I haven't really studied how the command, control, and appointeeship of those agencies work.
There's clearly a C&C issue with the Capitol Police, who simply let the white conservative protesters in. Not just as a matter of tactical action at the door, but the complete disinterest in establishing a real presence to begin with. [Sleezebag] is also in command of the Washington D.C. National Guard, and clearly didn't want to use them.
I did not anticipate that [Sleezebag] would escalate an authoritarian purge of minions who no longer do his bidding, such as of Pence. I can definitely see how everyone's been trying to wait him out, just get to January 20th where he can't do punishing things to them anymore. I don't think Pence is interested in being assassinated.
The inauguration could be ugly, but Biden "the asset" will be well protected. I wonder if crowd controlling microwave weapons will be deployed? It doesn't send a great message, but tactically, it would be a good idea. Hopefully all kinds of security people have all kinds of good ideas, and aren't going to allow any shenanigans.
It would be best for all liberals and Biden supporters to stay away from the inauguration. In particular, in liberal gun ownership circles, there are some wound up people without a lot of sense, who think they're going to "help" by defending a crowd of liberals. It would be best if there's no liberal crowd, if they have the basic sense to stay out of harm's way this time. And you don't want to be a 3rd party with a gun when the Feds start shooting.
Crowds shouldn't be allowed anyways, due to covid-19. But people are stupid. Obviously we've seen that white conservatives will do what they want. Liberals shouldn't join in, because this is not a protest. There is no liberal message at stake.
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My sister swears she saw something going around on Twitter Sun-Mon-Tue -she's only on there to tweet about a Victorian actress you never heard of unless it was from me, posts nothing political, does not follow politics on there- aimed at Antifa types to the effect of "DO NOT GO - IT'S A TRAP!".
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I read something last night -I'll come back with a link if I see it again- comparing The Turner Diaries to what happened Wednesday, making a compelling case that that was what some of the goons were going for. The photos of the guy in the Senate Chamber w/ the big bundle of zip-ties and the gallows erected outside look pretty convincing in that context. No speculation on how they thought they'd get Pelosi through the crowd with enough left of her body to hang.
It was credibly alleged that the plan, discussed openly in places like Fashbook Parler, was they break in, get their hostages, hang a few, and Glorious Leader sends in the troops under martial law and arrests all the Democrats and Romney and the VP. Step three - profit.
Obviously, most of the mob wasn't in on any sort of plan at all. Poop happens.
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And there's this:
@jimbourg
·
23h
I heard at least 3 different rioters at the Capitol say that they hoped to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging him from a Capitol Hill tree as a traitor. It was a common line being repeated. Many more were just talking about how the VP should be executed.
@AndrewFeinberg
· 23h
There are multiple photographs of pro-[Sleezebag] rioters carrying law enforcement-style flex-cuffs.
Rioters went looking for @VP, @SpeakerPelosi, @SenSchumer.
It raises the question of whether there was an organized plan to take hostages. twitter.com/LukeRussert/st…
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I calculate that if Biden is assassinated, [Sleezebag] will be assassinated. Numerous people hate him, and someone would get up the gumption, to exact revenge. I wonder if [Sleezebag] has ever seen through his narcissism enough to realize this? Winding up a mob with an extremist core and setting it in motion, is a dangerous game to play. I don't think the extremists care one bit if subsequent events result in their Fearless Leader's death. What they want, is the boogaloo, and a martyr can provide that just fine.
I suppose [Sleezebag] could avoid consequences by living in a bunker, or leaving the USA. Citizen animus to end his life, is probably not international in scope. But [Sleezebag]'s public life in the USA would be over. He wouldn't manage to stand in front of crowds forever, before suffering the consequences.
I wouldn't expect the assassination of Nancy Pelosi or another 2nd tier Democrat to have the same effect. More likely, tensions run high enough that a public gun battle ensues at some protest somewhere. Various people on both sides wind up dead. I try to remind a few of the liberal gun owners that the 2nd Amendment doesn't guarantee you the right to survive your bearing of arms. You've got guns, they've got guns. They could possibly shoot better than you do, they could have more guns than you do. Hatfields vs. McCoys doesn't end particularly well, for somebody.
The assassination of Republicans, by Trumpian fueled extremists - I think the rest of us all stand around shaking our heads saying, wow, just wow.
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Can anyone find video of that moment near the end of The Stand when the dude stands up and tells the Devil "This ain't right."? I'm rolling goose eggs.
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I calculate that if Biden is assassinated, [Sleezebag] will be assassinated. Numerous people hate him, and someone would get up the gumption, to exact revenge. I wonder if [Sleezebag] has ever seen through his narcissism enough to realize this? Winding up a mob with an extremist core and setting it in motion, is a dangerous game to play. I don't think the extremists care one bit if subsequent events result in their Fearless Leader's death. What they want, is the boogaloo, and a martyr can provide that just fine.
I suppose [Sleezebag] could avoid consequences by living in a bunker, or leaving the USA. Citizen animus to end his life, is probably not international in scope. But [Sleezebag]'s public life in the USA would be over. He wouldn't manage to stand in front of crowds forever, before suffering the consequences.
I wouldn't expect the assassination of Nancy Pelosi or another 2nd tier Democrat to have the same effect. More likely, tensions run high enough that a public gun battle ensues at some protest somewhere. Various people on both sides wind up dead. I try to remind a few of the liberal gun owners that the 2nd Amendment doesn't guarantee you the right to survive your bearing of arms. You've got guns, they've got guns. They could possibly shoot better than you do, they could have more guns than you do. Hatfields vs. McCoys doesn't end particularly well, for somebody.
The assassination of Republicans, by Trumpian fueled extremists - I think the rest of us all stand around shaking our heads saying, wow, just wow.
and claim that it wasn't expected...
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Well it's like some kind of nasty game of Spin The Bottle with the unhinged.
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Watch this. Wallpaper the nets with it.
Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger: "President [Sleezebag] is a Failed Leader"
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Cop killers:
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Arnie's take is a good spin, might influence someone. I don't doubt his sincerity, only the accuracy of the comparison as far as someone else's thinking is concerned. A fair number of people in the mob, based on the interviews, are clearly paranoid and wrapped up deeply in conspiracy theories. Although Arnie's phrase of "lies, lies" might reach a few of them who aren't too far unhinged and are just being swept along by their peer groups, there's a pile of people for whom these words don't speak. More like water off a duck's back, and completely missing the point as far as they are concerned.
Telling in one of those mob interviews, is some lady who said Congress is the People's house. They view it as a public space that they have a right to be in. And that if their presence is opposed by force, they have the right to storm it. Now I don't think that's very good legalese! But it's what they feel and what they want.
"You don't practice good legalese" is easily answered, in political activism, by diversity of tactics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_of_tactics). A sit-in at a segregated lunchroom counter, is not following legalese. Various Antifa groups burn 'capitalist' buildings whenever they can. There are political groups in France, I forget what their cause is, that periodically light buses on fire as a kind of national sport. They do it to empty buses, or tell everyone to get off the bus before they do it.
Do these actions get some kind of result? The disruptive but nonviolent lunch counter protests certainly did. They didn't follow good legalese. Does the more violent stuff, like arson and smashing up windows, achieve something? I don't know, but it's all "diversity of tactics".
Now of course, "we wanna be in this building" wasn't the only goal of the insurrection. I'd say most of those people wanted to entertain a fantasy of stopping the confirmation of the electoral votes, or at least make a huge political theater out of it. Many wanted to bully and harass congresspeople, including hanging them in effigy. Some wanted to kill minorities, but I'm not convinced they actually wanted to do it right there and so obviously. Some definitely want to kill some congresspeople, but it's not clear how dedicated they are to the action. If the hardcore had been more dedicated, I would have expected more of a bloodbath, and less of just putting feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk.
Were the cable tie restraints about taking hostages? Dunno, they could have had another tactical purpose, like sealing off doors against counter-assault. Actually taking hostages, is a totally unrealistic plan, given that the congresspeople had armed protection. Maybe they thought they would need to incapacitate some police. Do unto others before it's done unto you, that sort of thing.
In practice, didn't some cop just get beaten to death with a fire extinguisher? I haven't verified and learned the details of that story. EDIT: now I have. Not so many details to be had yet.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/business/national-association-manufacturers-[Sleezebag].html
The statement was the culmination of months of mounting frustration in the organization over shortcomings in the [Sleezebag] administration’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic and, more recently, Mr. [Sleezebag]’s contesting of the election result. It was also the product of rising anger from Mr. Timmons, who has blamed Mr. [Sleezebag] and other political leaders for his father’s death from the virus last month.
The public rebuke was an extraordinary break between Mr. [Sleezebag] and a major business lobbying group that worked closely with him to secure tax cuts and regulatory rollbacks during his term and that the president has showered with attention and praise.
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I don't think this below was good grammar, even in 1868 lawyerese, but still.
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We kinda want the Republikkkans to sorta never go quite this far again.
There must be consequences, or there's never any end to this happening ad infinitum. There must be political consequences for those in government who merely participated in the lying that led to a cop-killing putsch, and there must be more severe consequences for those who doubled down on that lying since Nazi Wednesday. Those, government or private citizen, engaging in performative outrage that criminals kkkriminals were moderated off internet venues during this ongoing crisis should, at least, also be shunned and shamed. -Likewise for the phoney-fakey pearl-clutching that impeachment would harm "healing" and "unity", like so many wife-beaters in the act repetitively screaming to ask why she made him beat her.
How DARE anyone this week repeat the lies, give aid and comfort to KKKRIMINALS, suggest the cop-killing kkkriminals, the TRAITORS TO OUR COUNTRY, not be PUNISHED?
Impeach, investigate, prosecute - shame and shun. When poop happens, you flush.
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I don't disagree, as long as "someone" doesn't Pardon them before he/they is/are gone... so wait until the 21st...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/technology/apple-google-parler.html
Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler, an App That Drew [Sleezebag] Supporters
The companies pulled support for the “free speech” social network, all but killing the service just as many conservatives are seeking alternatives to Facebook and Twitter.
Parler, a social network that pitches itself as a “free speech” alternative to Twitter and Facebook, is suffering from whiplash.
Over the past several months, Parler has become one of the fastest-growing apps in the United States. Millions of President [Sleezebag]’s supporters have flocked to it as Facebook and Twitter increasingly cracked down on posts that spread misinformation and incited violence, including muzzling Mr. [Sleezebag] by removing his accounts this past week. By Saturday morning, Apple listed Parler as the No. 1 free app for its iPhones.
But, by Saturday night, Parler was suddenly fighting for its life.
First, Apple and Google removed the app from their app stores because they said it had not sufficiently policed its users’ posts, allowing too many that encouraged violence and crime. Then, late Saturday, Amazon told Parler it would boot the company from its web-hosting service on Sunday night because of repeated violations of Amazon’s rules.
Amazon’s move meant that Parler’s entire platform would soon go offline unless it was able to find a new hosting service on Sunday.
[Sleezebag] Media Hosting???
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It'll fail spectacularly, like everything he's ever done.
I don't disagree, as long as "someone" doesn't Pardon them before he/they is/are gone... so wait until the 21st...
Shun and shame you?
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Another longtime ally of Mr. [Sleezebag], Chris Christie, said on Sunday that the president had committed impeachable offenses and that he would vote yes on articles of impeachment if he were in Congress.
“If inciting to insurrection isn’t” impeachable, Mr. Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, said on ABC’s “This Week,” “then I don’t really know what is.”
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Arnold calls Wen "the Day of Broken Glass" in US
https://twitter.com/i/status/1348249481284874240
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Yes he did.
Watch this. Wallpaper the nets with it.
Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger: "President [Sleezebag] is a Failed Leader"
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I missed that one this morning...
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Yes you did.
Strong open, sorta ruined with the Conan and metallurgy towards the end. I mostly like it for being in fluent right-wing, if not English - I'm very much hoping my ignorant cousins watch it.
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Rep. Meijer: I experienced the heinous assault on Capitol; now, time to face reality
Peter Meijer
Published 10:46 p.m. ET Jan. 9, 2021
On Wednesday afternoon in the House Chamber, I assured a colleague we were in the most secure possible place as we unpacked gas masks.
Tear gas had been deployed after violent protestors stormed the rotunda, but as we took cover under bulletproof chairs I assured my colleague we would be fine. After all, there had been incidents in the past, but Capitol Police had maintained control over the seat of our democracy since 1814.
The mob then rushed the barricaded doors to the chamber, trying to break them down. The illusion of security, of the sanctity of our constitutional order, collapsed. With guns drawn, police ordered us to evacuate, leading to chaos as we fled down corridors and into the tunnels beneath Capitol Hill. Several times our group of lawmakers found ourselves alone, with no police escort, fearful of what threats might lie around the next corner.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/01/07/PDTN/b2442d2b-0a27-4aa8-aa97-7711a218637e-AP21006747786090.jpg)
I assured a colleague we were in the most secure possible place as we unpacked gas masks, Meijer writes. Andrew Harnik, AP
We eventually took shelter in a committee hearing room, coming to grips with the appalling assault on our democracy we had suffered first-hand. Some rioters were armed, and at least one carried flex-cuffs to take hostages. Pipe bombs were discovered and neutralized. Outside the Capitol, a gallows with a noose for our necks had been assembled. It was clear Capitol Police had underestimated the threat, but they were not alone.
I was one of the few Republicans who had already acknowledged Joe Biden as president-elect, and earlier in the week I had joined a handful of GOP colleagues in noting our constitutional responsibility to certify the Electoral College results. We had seen calls on the far right for the vice president to pull an imaginary “Pence Card” and overturn the election results.
To the fringe, Vice President Mike Pence’s failure to seize fictional powers was tantamount to treason and there were suggestions Pence be put to death. While the Capitol was being assaulted by his supporters who were duped into believing the election was in fact a landslide victory and the true results could be overturned, [Sleezebag] egged on these violent delusions.
Before the assault, [Sleezebag] had addressed the crowd and urged his loyalists to march on the Capitol, “to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones … give them the pride and boldness they need to take back our country.”
They took something alright. Hours later, after the Capitol was cleared of insurrectionists, with windows shattered and the smell of tear gas lingering, the consequences of his dangerous lies became clear. As we moved to accept Arizona’s electors, a fellow freshman lingered near a voting terminal, voting card in hand.
My colleague told me that efforts to overturn the election were wrong, and that voting to certify was a constitutional duty. But my colleague feared for family members, and the danger the vote would put them in. Profoundly shaken, my colleague voted to overturn.
An angry mob succeeded in threatening at least one member of Congress from performing what that member understood was a constitutional responsibility.
Worse yet, while a dead woman’s blood dried mere feet from our chamber, other Republican colleagues doubled down, repeating lies of a stolen election, baselessly deflecting blame for the Capitol assault from [Sleezebag] loyalists to Antifa, doing whatever they could to justify, equivocate, rationalize or otherwise avoid taking responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/01/04/PDTN/c3e1930a-a637-48b0-a824-707c107d292f-2020-11-16_IKE_Studio1_Meijer_Peter_0006_SELECT_1.jpg)
Rep. Peter Meijer Ike Hayman
Blood has been spilled, and those who encouraged this insurrection are in too deep.
Those of us who refused to cower, who have told the truth, have suffered the consequences. Republican colleagues who have spoken out have been accosted on the street, received death threats, and even assigned armed security.
I have been called a traitor more times than I can count. I regret not bringing my gun to D.C.
It didn’t have to end like this, with five people dead, including a Capitol Police officer. This should be a moment of reckoning for the country as a whole, and the conservative movement in particular.
If the Republican party ever hopes to regain the public’s trust and lead the country forward after this heinous assault, it must first be honest with itself.
Freshman Rep. Peter Meijer, R-Grand Rapids, represents Michigan's 3rd Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives.
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He is an ass, but an OK ass.
Very wealthy family, and understanding his background goes a lot to understanding his thinking.
As a teacher - I just wonder if it will lead to them understanding how schools go though having to do security and lockdown trainings, etc. Particularly when they have gas masks and bullet proof seats - yet we have what? Lead paint on 90 year old cinderblocks....
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The House could vote as soon as Tuesday on an impeachment article, the chamber’s No. 3 Democrat said.
-biden/the-house-could-vote-as-soon-as-tuesday-on-an-impeachment-article-the-chambers-no-3-democrat-said]https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/10/us/joe-[Sleezebag]-biden/the-house-could-vote-as-soon-as-tuesday-on-an-impeachment-article-the-chambers-no-3-democrat-said (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/10/us/joe-[Sleezebag)
The No. 3 House Democrat said on Sunday that the chamber could vote as soon as Tuesday on an article of impeachment charging President [Sleezebag] with inciting a violent mob that attacked the Capitol — but then delay sending it to the Senate for trial.
Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the Democratic whip, said that the vast majority of House Democrats believed the president must be impeached for his conduct but that top leaders were still trying to determine how to punish Mr. [Sleezebag] without hamstringing the first days of Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s presidency with an all-consuming Senate trial. They recognized it would be impossible to impeach and hold a trial before Mr. [Sleezebag] leaves office in 10 days, he said.
“If we are the people’s house, let’s do the people’s work and let’s vote to impeach this president,” Mr. Clyburn said on “Fox News Sunday.” “The Senate will decide later what to do with that impeachment.”
In a separate interview on CNN’s “State of the Union,” Mr. Clyburn suggested that Speaker Nancy Pelosi was considering impeaching now but not sending the article to the Senate for trial for weeks — possibly until after Mr. Biden’s first 100 days in office. The Senate must immediately begin a trial when it receives impeachment articles, but it cannot begin one without them.
“Let’s give President-elect Biden the 100 days he needs to get his agenda off and running,” said Mr. Clyburn, an influential ally to the incoming president. “And maybe we will send the articles sometime after that.”
The comments came after senior Democrats had met late into the night on Saturday discussing possible options for the week ahead, as support for impeachment grew to encompass nearly their entire caucus. House leaders were giving extra attention to security concerns that could affect the timing after last weeks events, working with the U.S. Air Marshals and the Capitol Police to ensure lawmakers could travel safely back to Washington for a vote.
They also came as pressure against the president continued to build. Senator Patrick J. Toomey of Pennsylvania became the second Republican senator to call for Mr. [Sleezebag] to resign. And Mick Mulvaney, the president’s former acting chief of staff and a former congressman from South Carolina, said he would consider voting for articles of impeachment if he were still in the House, and predicted many other Republicans would do the same.
As of Sunday morning, 195 of 222 House Democrats had signed onto the article of impeachment drawn up by Representative David Cicilline of Rhode Island, Jamie Raskin of Maryland and Ted Lieu of California. It charges Mr. [Sleezebag] with “willfully inciting violence against the government of the United States.”
— Nicholas Fandos
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He is an ass, but an OK ass.
Very wealthy family, and understanding his background goes a lot to understanding his thinking.
As a teacher - I just wonder if it will lead to them understanding how schools go though having to do security and lockdown trainings, etc. Particularly when they have gas masks and bullet proof seats - yet we have what? Lead paint on 90 year old cinderblocks....
ask him that
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https://www.npr.org/2021/01/10/955314373/d-c-s-acting-u-s-attorney-calls-scope-of-capitol-investigation-unprecedented
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Two Black capitol police officers report, in addition to other aspects of having a very bad day Wednesday, they got called [black and proud]s A LOT...
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I remember an anecdote from Chernow's Hamilton, where Washington had an opportunity to capture a British general but refrained on Hamilton's advice. Hamilton argued that, if the man were eliminated, King George would only replace him with somebody else, and he would have a hard time finding someone equally incompetent. That's more or less how I feel about impeachment. Leaving aside the part where he's unlikely to ever be voted into power again after this, the difficulties of getting this past a Republican congress, the relative worth of catharsis, etc., [Sleezebag]'s followers are scary, and [Sleezebag] himself is still the stupidest, laziest, most cowardly [some term your autocensor will prune anyway, take your pick] ever to shame the White House. I want him to remain in control of his movement as long as possible, uselessly sucking up cash like a televangelist in a bad suit and ostracizing everyone who threatens him with their competence and independent judgment. I doubt impeachment will happen anyhow, but I don't see the benefit. Which is not to say that I can't see the visceral appeal, especially if you're a congresscritter who just spent several hours hiding in his/her office.
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and they still voted to follow the guy. If the Mob had really tasted blood and had gotten further involved into their "Revolution", they would have found that they would have been inline to that one impromptu gallows or hung in the House/Senate Chambers or even the Rotunda...
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Jesus, Elok. ;no
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@KatzOnEarth
Replying to
@KatzOnEarth
He should have to print this out and fold it into a cone and wear it in public every day.
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21560.0;attach=21757;image)
5:30 PM · Jan 10, 2021·Twitter Web App
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Rep. @AOC to ABC News: "The process of healing is separate and in fact requires accountability. And so if we allow insurrection against the United States with impunity, with no accountability, we are inviting it to happen again ... Without it, it will happen again."
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I assume all the idiots who can be captured will be, and will go to jail for a substantial period of time. Whether it will happen again has little to do with whether they punish the likes of Cruz and Hawley; with Parler et al shut down the movement is likely to go dark and metamorphose into something more like a militia--an actual militia, not silly fight-clubbers like the Proud Boys. Which is why I'd rather have [Sleezebag]'s dead weight holding it back. With somebody serious in charge they could have killed a significant fraction of Congress.
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His dead weight invented the lies that riled up the kkkrowd and told them to walk to the Capitol and kill a cop.
E_T's point about Pence pardoning him 15 seconds after being sworn in has weight, given some reflection on Pence's likely state of mind - wanting to be a live coward for a few decades. Repeating, yet again, that the Traitor is too stupid to do much harm was discredited in March, roughly 400,000 Americans, Mary Ann and a couple cops ago, and is the Hindenburg by comparison.
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I can't be bothered to dig it up (sleeping tot on arm) but Reuters did a poll. 57% say impeach immediately, though they're mostly Dems. Maybe 70% despise the rioters as fools or criminals. 12% approved of what they did. I believe that is mostly accurate. Why does anyone care about [Sleezebag], old incompetent [Sleezebag], when one in eight Americans thinks bum-rushing Congress is a job well done? That's too few to dominate us democratically, but far too many to control or silence or monitor. They will not go away if you spank bad politicians or throw them in jail.
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You persistently misstate my point. I don't think [Sleezebag] is harmless; I think the harm he does is mostly due to ineptitude, selfishness, and sloth (which is also Douthat's opinion, AFAICT). He is not Hitler, or even Mussolini, and he's wasted four years pooping on Twitter. COVID was lethal because he failed to take it seriously--but if Hillary had won, I don't believe the results would be much better, because the culture [Sleezebag] feeds off did not form overnight. You've noted as much yourself. If Hillary had been in charge we would have seen different riots, different noncompliance, and a different kind of escalation. You're ignoring a broad cultural problem to fixate on one dumb loudmouth riding the crest of the wave. If [Sleezebag] had been Trotsky, the legislative branch would be hamburger right now. Instead he got an accidental insurrection that wandered away from the group and killed one cop along with four of its own.
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It wasn't an accident, and I've been watching that Nazi movement form since ten years before you were born.
-I started typing that latter phrase twice since my last, and it just felt too aggressive - but you brought it up.
You're assuming it's over, and - I'm too angry to go on, and it's past bedtime. This isn't going to be over on the 20th, I don't think it'll be over in my lifetime, not letting the instigators and the leaders off the hook, and we've got to DO something. We can't prosecute the soldiers and let the officers go. There are NAZIS RUNNING MY COUNTRY. It's out in the open. You can't pretend
-Maybe when I get good awake tomorrow...
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and will go to jail for a substantial period of time.
Why are you assuming that? It is already commented upon in the media, that they're all probably going to be tried in their home states, in various Federal courts. As opposed to being tried in Washington D.C. To the extent that there are any juries in the trials, they will have more sympathetic juries in their home states. I wouldn't be so sure about people getting lots and lots of jail time, although I do imagine that some of the most blatant, will be made examples of.
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They will not go away if you spank bad politicians or throw them in jail.
Disempowering bad political leadership is useful.
But, it's only useful if the politicians are removed from office or some such. That's probably too high a legal bar to be met. I wonder how effective Censure is at ending people's political careers?
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If Hillary had been in charge we would have seen different riots, different noncompliance, and a different kind of escalation.
Which Republican leader would have run around having maskless rallies, openly defying epidemiology and turning it into a tribal badge? If [Sleezebag] had been defeated, I don't think it would have been [Sleezebag]. Unless he was trying to run again in 2020.
Let's say [Sleezebag] didn't stay in the politics game. Got bored from 2016 to 2019, didn't have any movement behind him. Which Republican would have gotten up to the "No mask for me!" antics? Which one would have led in disease?
Also, without White House access to early covid treatments, would that Republican have died?
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Outgoing Capitol Police chief: House, Senate security officials hamstrung efforts to call in National Guard
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sund-riot-national-guard/2021/01/10/fc2ce7d4-5384-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html
-Somewhat detailed account of Sund having a bad day. Doesn't trigger my bullcrap detector.
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I don't know why I haven't already been vaccinated. I bring this up in this here politics thread because the problem's mostly political, I think. This "prioritizing" is the worst sort of [nonsense]; fear that somebody who don't deserve it might get it before someone who does, noting that healthy young Marco Rubio has got it and I, a 56 year-old smoker with type two diabetes and strong allergies, don't even see it on the spring horizon. [nonsense].
Republicans administering like Democrats is what it is.
Just truck them vaccines en mass wherever flu shots with finicky refrigeration needs would go, and vaccinate first come like flu every year, and you'll get most everyone who's gonna by March. The blood of 10s of thousands is on the hands of who-all came up with this stupid distribution model.
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We can agree on that, at least. Reason had these infuriating articles about New York throwing away good vaccine to avoid being punished for vaccinating out of turn.
(We'll just leave the other matter be)
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(No we won't.)
I've seen some of the same articles, though I'd reached the conclusion while it was still last year, based purely on the ridiculous timeline projections I was hearing.
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I think you're vastly overestimating how much vaccine is out there available.
Here in Utah, we're barely getting the front line on dose 2. (hEt gets dose 2 next week) Teachers and over 70 are in the next batch that start up next Monday. I've got no disillusions that mine's coming any time soon, and for the most part agree with how they are rolling it out.
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Mortality gets much worse with age, I've seen charts of that. Using age as one of the prioritizing factors, makes sense.
As does front line exposure, hospital workers etc. first. People are quitting that profession, leading to a shortage of people who can treat the cases that come in. That leads to more people dying in hospitals, so I really don't see how there can be an argument on that point.
Nursing homes get priority because they're a captive audience of people in close proximity to each other, where we've actually seen them get wiped out in substantial numbers in the real world. So that's not a debating item either.
I thought I've seen stuff in the news cycles, over time, about preexisting diseases creating higher mortality. That definitely seemed true before. I don't know about now, if covid treatments have advanced in any way. Prioritizing based on people's likelihood to die, is rational. For instance, that would imply that young children are the last to be vaccinated.
Any administration that actually took covid seriously, instead of making it into a tribal badge, would have done a way better job showing rollout leadership and helping States with their part of the distribution. We would have had things deployed sooner better, although there would still be problems. For instance, phone call queues for making appointments. That's been all over the local news. Same story as getting stuff done for your driver's license. I still haven't tried again, just no appetite for making appointments a month in advance.
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-I left out at least borderline obese. You'd think I loovved beer.
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Biden apparently said something about opposing the NRA this morning, and OF COURSE the Nazis are losing it. I won't bother with the rest, but I want to quote the close of something someone said back, in the 14pt bold it deserves:
Stop lying. When Republicans lie, people die.
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@JoshMargolin
New: @FBI now reports in a bulletin "Armed protests are being planned at all 50 state capitols from 16 January through at least 20 January, and at the US Capitol from 17 January through 20 January,”
@AaronKatersky reports.
11:46 AM · Jan 11, 2021·Twitter Web App
Attn: Elok
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Biden apparently said something about opposing the NRA this morning, and OF COURSE the Nazis are losing it.
I'm not losing it, but there's certainly grounds to oppose some of Biden's agenda.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/11/joe-biden-promises-to-defeat-the-nra/
He also said he wants to “put America on the path to ensuring that 100% of firearms sold in America are smart guns” and that he will “issue a call to action for gun manufacturers, dealers, and other public and private entities to take steps to accelerate our transition to smart guns.”
No thanks. If I want a gun, I want an uncomplicated, ain't gonna be finicky, ain't gonna break when I want it to work gun. I want to fix my gun myself and not be reliant on some corporate entity for it. I don't want my personal data stored in it either, as that only creates liabilities for me, should it fall into the wrong hands. No cyberguns, thank U very much. Cyber anything can be hacked.
I have plenty of experience working on cars, and know the risks of over-technologizing things.
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Oookay.
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Incidentally, I predict we'll understand what was going on in Nashville much better by the morning of the 21st.
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Who am I to ignore people doing my work for me?
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The NY Bar Association is moving to remove Rudy Giuliani from its membership.
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I don't know why I haven't already been vaccinated. I bring this up in this here politics thread because the problem's mostly political, I think. This "prioritizing" is the worst sort of [nonsense]; fear that somebody who don't deserve it might get it before someone who does, noting that healthy young Marco Rubio has got it and I, a 56 year-old smoker with type two diabetes and strong allergies, don't even see it on the spring horizon. [nonsense].
Republicans administering like Democrats is what it is.
Just truck them vaccines en mass wherever flu shots with finicky refrigeration needs would go, and vaccinate first come like flu every year, and you'll get most everyone who's gonna by March. The blood of 10s of thousands is on the hands of who-all came up with this stupid distribution model.
did you see the line of people (in cars) JUST in Volusia Co waiting to get a shot in the arm? And I've got HIV/AIDS, had Cancer and other opertunistics, etc.... and 59... I DON'T EXPECT to see it until April
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Logistics... Logistics... Logistics...
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@JoshMargolin
New: @FBI now reports in a bulletin "Armed protests are being planned at all 50 state capitols from 16 January through at least 20 January, and at the US Capitol from 17 January through 20 January,”
@AaronKatersky reports.
11:46 AM · Jan 11, 2021·Twitter Web App
Attn: Elok
... yes? That would be a bunch of right-wing crazies, not [Sleezebag] himself who is one out-of-shape senior citizen and fairly stupid to boot. I've already said [Sleezebag]'s mob is dangerous. I feel like we're talking past each other here.
[Sleezebag] represents an inflection point in the radicalization of the American right, but not as much of one as is commonly supposed. The absurd Obama-is-a-Muslim/Kenyan lie was positively geriatric before [Sleezebag] came along and revived it, and the congressional GOP was getting progressively (har) more intransigent before [Sleezebag] won. When Merrick Garland got obstructed, it was something of a hail mary, since most everyone expected Hillary to win. [Sleezebag] has been remarkably unwilling to live in or acknowledge reality, but even in this he only reflects the larger movement. The man spends most of his waking hours on the internet absorbing the latest and greatest nuttery. He then spits out what he thinks the mob wants to hear, wrapped up in self-congratulation or self-pity as the occasion warrants. In this, he is little different from any other politician, he's just got a base nobody else was willing to touch until he came along.
As for his current role in the broader psycho loon movement, it is largely as a symbolic figurehead others project their ideals onto; he concocted no part of the Q mythology, for example, and the Proud Boys self-organized. The "work" he performs could be done equally well by basically anyone who can use social media and lacks a functioning sense of shame. There are literally dozens if not hundreds of eligible internet personalities who could take over as moon pope, and almost all are significantly smarter and more driven than he is. He is presently hogging the spotlight; should he be eliminated, one little shark will eat the others, or else the little sharks will divide up the ocean depths between them. Either way, the mob remains.
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Other than [Sleezebag]... which person has no shame, wants to be moon pope, seemingly has a reasonable amount of money, business contacts, political contacts, and the ability to make a run at the Presidency? There's more than just the first 2 ingredients here.
If you don't think [Sleezebag] has these resources now, feel free to analyze his run in the past tense, as to what a "replacement" would also need to bring to the table.
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Again, [Sleezebag] was not especially significant as President. He barely used the official powers of his office, and to the extent he did he mostly either functioned as a standard GOP figure (tax cuts, court appointments) or else to harass critics or personally enrich himself. Many of his attempts to abuse power were thwarted by noncompliant underlings. Mostly he wasted money on half of a useless wall, and also was somewhat more cruel to immigrants than Obama. In war he vacillated between aggression and isolationism.
Considered as a spiritual head of a bizarre political cult--which may or may not coincide with the presidency, and in my opinion probably won't in the future--there are any number of potential heirs on the internet and in what passes for the real world these days. I'm not familiar with all or even most of them, but Dan Bongino springs to mind. From now on I assume the movement will exist outside of official power, influencing GOP elections but probably not winning the presidency with anyone like [Sleezebag] anytime soon.
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One thing [Sleezebag] most definitely did do as President, is marginalize, sideline, and purge many Republicans in the party as "disloyal". Thereby accomplishing a major shift in party politics towards the right, towards white supremacy specifically. That's not inconsequential. And I am not optimistic that people sidelined, have the spine to stand up to his movement. I note that the list of Republicans condemning [Sleezebag], are mostly people out of office. They're not directly in the crosshairs and don't have something to lose. Now, maybe they're signalling they'd like to get back in, but with the inertia of this train, it's not certain they're gonna.
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'Lok - have you read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, perchance?
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Hit him in the pocket book.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/01/11/pga-championship-2022-drops-trumps-bedminster-course-as-venue/?sh=223394a38767
In a statement released on Twitter, PGA of America President Jim Richerson announced on Sunday night the golf association’s board of directors have voted to terminate the agreement to play the tournament at the [Sleezebag]-owned golf course.
In a video posted on the organization’s website, Richerson said that hosting the tournament at [Sleezebag] Bedminster would be “detrimental” to the PGA of America’s brand.
The statement, however, made no direct references to [Sleezebag]’s or his supporters’ action in Washington last Wednesday, something that has been decried by organizations and corporations across the country.
The PGA has not named a replacement venue for the tournament as of yet.
The fallout of last week’s events has not just been limited to [Sleezebag], but also his allies in Congress. At least four major corporations have suspended contributions through their corporate PACs to Republican lawmakers who challenged the certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s victory. This includes hospitality giant Marriott International, the health insurance network Blue Cross Blue Shield, bank holding company Commerce Bancshares and Citibank. Others like Bank of America, Ford Motor Co. and AT&T have all announced they will take recent events into consideration before making future donations, while CVS Health Corp., Exxon Mobil, FedEx and Target said they are reviewing their political giving.
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Either way, the mob remains.
Yeppers and they would love to have [Sleezebag] "Martyred" for the cause... Especially now that there is talk of nationwide violent protest, esp if he's removed before the 20th... (but will likely do so no matter if or not). So, let them do so, then round them up and shoot them for their idiocy...
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'Lok - have you read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, perchance?
What Part of it are you referencing?
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Don't blow my gag, man.
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I'm guessing you're referencing Zaphod not having power but distracting from it. I can't imagine who the true power-holders would be in this case, though; he's not especially helpful to any cultural or business elites, unless you count the few businesses actually helped by his tariffs.
Bvanevery, the party's been purging moderates for some time. Tea Party hit circa 2010. [Sleezebag]'s attack on the disloyal was mostly directed at firing people he'd hired himself, thereby creating chaos in his own administration. There were also primaries and threats of primaries, but going forward primaries will likely be wielded indiscriminately by the base with or without [Sleezebag], so for the purposes of impeach-or-not it hardly matters IMO.
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Oh hoHO!
No, pal o' mine, I thought you'd get this one. Zaphod spent years collecting and writing up information about Earth, submitted it to the Guide - and the Entry for Earth updated from "Harmless." to "Mostly Harmless."
;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao ;rotflmao
I sincerely think I'm not mischaracterizing your view of The Pig; merely tersely summarizing.
Remember that the Hitchiker's Guide eventually did reverse and publish reams and reams of Zaphod's work - So Long And Thanks For All The Fish, maybe? It's been somewhere north of 30 years for me. (Don't own any of them, but I'm re-reading The Silmarillion right now, if we'd like to re-visit Tolkien sometime…)
SO- I'm sure you've seen one of the countless times I've talked about how much this community harmed my love of arguing for fun. At BEST, it only works like sled-racing with my little brother in the late 70's; we had to stop keeping track of who won to enjoy ourselves. Pity.
So, I see negative charm in Ming insulting Kid, who never knows he's beat - it's just feeding, and a real drag on that OT, that Ming wasn't sick of that little reindeer game years ago. And I don't know why Kid's bothering to troll, and I say that as someone I fancy speaks Master-Level Troll and fluent Conservative (with the caveat that I loathe Reagan-Style Poo-Slinging Talk without let or hindrance, world without end, selah amen - a caveat at the Heart of Everything if you want to understand my politics).
[Let us hit post at this juncture, that this much will be up while I write more; I fail once again in an intention to continue to be terse.]
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I thought that was Ford Perfect
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WHAAAAAAAHHH!!! WHAAAAAAAHHH!!!
IF I... WHAAAAAAAHHH!!! CAN'T GET... WHAAAAAAAHHH!!! A PARDON
WHAAAAAAAHHH!!
NO ONE CAN!!! WHAAAAAAAHHH!!! WHAAAAAAAHHH!!! WHAAAAAAAHHH!!!
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-Pardon the ninja noise as I continue.
Kid shows up with a headful of just-not-so and talking points gleaned off just-as-well-be-Stormfront and tries to play the answer to the request no one made; Ben, please, but stupid. Why does anyone ever talk to him ever about anything? Why am I claiming to be classier than Jon Miller about anything? -Because I don't waste my time feeding that, ever. Why would I? Why don't you? And I'm not much talking about the trolling part near so much as the worse-than-gibberish alternate crapsack world he thinks he's in that I dunno how to address that much wrong.
---And I feel a little like that when you talk about politics, your place in, absolutely not as a comparison to, y'know, the evil trolling, but the just-not-so stuff that I wouldn't know how to engage if I foolishly wanted to. Just a little, I feel that way, enough to trouble me. You are, similar to what you once said of/to Lori, one of the most decent people I've met on the webs -I agree about Lori, too- and it troubles me to see you sitting on the wrong side of the stadium amidst the folks who've lately mainstreamed fascism, inevitably culminating what Reagan started, but MADly accelerated by Sleezo the Joke.
(As Dr. David M. Perry has been repeating on Twitter for two days, what do you call nine people and the guy in the Camp Auschwitz t-shirt walking around together? Ten Nazis marching. -If not so, I argue in defense of the slam, why are any sighted and at-all literate of the nine still walking with him?)
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So let me ask you some questions: You are aware of a thing happened Wednesday, yes? And you have some familiarity with what Treason Grifter said to the Nazi crowd before and during the putsch/murders/myriadly-felonious attack on American Democracy, yes?
Perhaps you will stipulate that he intentionally further riled up a crowd he surely understood was violently angry -angry over lies that originated with him- described where he wanted them to go, used the word "fight", and that fighting subsequently happened, 5-6 deaths as a result of those countless felonies and treasons. Got any quibbles with that framing?
SO- what do YOU believe he is guilty of? Is Incitement To Commit [very large number of several most serious of crimes, however lawyers would phrase it], even Conspiracy To, something in that ballfield, fair?
SO- What do you think should happen to him? What SHOULD be done?
I stipulate that I don't care all that helluva lot about the poop and vandalism - that's for prosecuting the street Nazis we can't get for the Sedition/cop Murder/Felony Murder Rule/Plot to Kidnap and Murder - that last of which I have no evidence the Orange Sleeze knew about. What SHOULD happen to The Pig now?
I'm deeply interested from the angle about Punishing The Guilty being society's best prophylactic measure against intolerable acts. (I got nothin' better to offer.) And I gots me nooo problem with the policeman at Mardi Gras in N'Orleans my sister heard telling a guy to NOT smoke that spliff in the OPEN. I gots me nothin' BUT problems with authorities looking the other way at FELONIES, not least the cluster-grouping I mentioned in the last paragraph.
I KNOW you're not okay with most anything about Nazi Wedesday, probably not with even the broken glass and poop. Not even calling the Black cops [black and proud]s all day. So what's your vision of how a healthy polity/society STRONGLY and EFFECTIVELY discourages all this happening again?
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I thought that was Ford Perfect
Crap, I'm not even sure, having read all that, maybe, 1987-89. I think you're right.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you those notorious liars, Congressmen Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan, L-R.
I'd estimate they are both roughly 41.
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-It's only ^51 seconds^, folks, so have a look.
I wonder whether it's more due to platforms purging Nazi followers --- or these Nazis taking a teeeeny popularity hit with the masks off and the swastikas showing ante-putcsh...
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something here stinks to high heaven
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[ninja'd]
P.S. SHUT UP NAZIS!
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something here stinks to high heaven
Ohhh, I think Lionel Hutz as prosecutor ought to be able to put the Pig -defended by Victor Sufentes having a good day- in prison for the rest of his elderly life, just for what he did on TV Wednesday.
-But after that, the most interesting convictions ought to prove to come out of the investigation of the Capitol Police and Sergeants-At Arms planning and what-all the heck happened in DOJ with the Guard. -Not hard to believe it ending with even the worst lawyer you can think of nailing Pig a second (do hard) time.
I'm WAY more interested in seeing officials who betrayed the public trust -including police, and it seems clear there were a number of both dirty in this- go down hard than the vandals and poopers, and I want them to have Real Bad Decades.
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"Too many in the media bottled it. At some point we have to own this. Donald [Sleezebag] and his mob succeeded in getting this far because we, the media, failed. We failed you."
I have been waiting four long years to say this. It's important.
Pls watch/share:"
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Crap, I'm not even sure, having read all that, maybe, 1987-89. I think you're right.
He's right. Ford Prefect is the guy who always has his towel, that Arthur Dent meets. Zaphod Beeblebrox is the two headed President of the Universe. I can't remember the slightest thing about why he was elected, and I don't think I'm meant to.
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Gonna try to put this briefly since I have a LOT of schoolwork to do today: your phrasing implies that it is possible to end this by punishing [Sleezebag] (and associated scumbags) hard enough. I do not believe that is the case. You seem to believe--correct me if I'm wrong--that there's a unified USA with resolve to smash a tiny handful of troublemakers, who would settle down if [Sleezebag] stopped riling them up.
The tiny handful is at least one in ten Americans, which considering only the adults or near-adults probably works out to somewhere close to thirty million. Those people sincerely, 100% believe the election was rigged, and [Sleezebag] played a relatively small role in convincing them of that (the indoctrination apparatus is massive and takes only the odd nudge from him, since even he can only tweet so much). A smaller set of that tenth also believes still loonier stuff about Satanic pedophiles, a pizza place, maybe lizardmen too at this point. If you add in the much larger group of enablers and fellow-travelers--the sort who didn't approve of the attack but suspect antifa did it, or can sympathize in a vague way, or who are simply less scared of them than they are of crazy leftists--you've got somewhere close to a third of the country. [Sleezebag] isn't controlling that wave, he's only precariously riding it, and I'd rather he ride it than somebody else who knows what he's doing.
I don't know what the solution is to reunify the country and convince people that the election wasn't stolen and the pedo cabal doesn't exist. But retribution or justice barely enter into it, because nobody's really in control here. It's not practical to silence, monitor, incarcerate, or kill thirty million, and attempting to do so would lead us down some pathways that scare me far more than what has happened to date. I wish Biden the best of luck, but I don't think he has what it takes to heal the divide. The start of the solution will have to be understanding the scale of the problem, and not in the way some Democratic politicians have done by restating it as "the problem is white supremacy [so really we have to punish thousands or millions]." They're not children, you can't spank them. Democracy doesn't work that way.
That wasn't very brief, but now I really do have to get to work, sorry! Hope that made sense.
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Gonna try to put this briefly since I have a LOT of schoolwork to do today: your phrasing implies that it is possible to end this by punishing [Sleezebag] (and associated scumbags) hard enough. I do not believe that is the case. You seem to believe--correct me if I'm wrong--that there's a unified USA with resolve to smash a tiny handful of troublemakers, who would settle down if [Sleezebag] stopped riling them up.
The tiny handful is at least one in ten Americans, which considering only the adults or near-adults probably works out to somewhere close to thirty million. Those people sincerely, 100% believe the election was rigged, and [Sleezebag] played a relatively small role in convincing them of that (the indoctrination apparatus is massive and takes only the odd nudge from him, since even he can only tweet so much).
As well as riding it like a Surfer on a killer (literally) wave
A smaller set of that tenth also believes still loonier stuff about Satanic pedophiles, a pizza place, maybe lizardmen too at this point. If you add in the much larger group of enablers and fellow-travelers--the sort who didn't approve of the attack but suspect antifa did it, or can sympathize in a vague way, or who are simply less scared of them than they are of crazy leftists--you've got somewhere close to a third of the country. [Sleezebag] isn't controlling that wave, he's only precariously riding it, and I'd rather he ride it than somebody else who knows what he's doing.
A surfer that can't walk down a ramp, but a surfer none the less
I don't know what the solution is to reunify the country and convince people that the election wasn't stolen and the pedo cabal doesn't exist. But retribution or justice barely enter into it, because nobody's really in control here. It's not practical to silence, monitor, incarcerate, or kill thirty million, and attempting to do so would lead us down some pathways that scare me far more than what has happened to date. I wish Biden the best of luck, but I don't think he has what it takes to heal the divide. The start of the solution will have to be understanding the scale of the problem, and not in the way some Democratic politicians have done by restating it as "the problem is white supremacy [so really we have to punish thousands or millions]." They're not children, you can't spank them. Democracy doesn't work that way.
That wasn't very brief, but now I really do have to get to work, sorry! Hope that made sense.
Likely, only years of Bloody Civil War with them losing none the less will open their eyes as to what they had gotten themselves into. Am I wanting this, Not in the least bit as there is no way that this country will fully survive. And, as the Doctor stated, "Once you fire that first Shot, you don't know who's blood will be spilled, what lives will be shattered...." or, whom will be the victor and thus the ones whom write the history of this...
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...I would like to mention that it's tough to nail down googling, but I appear to reside in NC's 10th Congressional district, and the Hitler Youth Kid in the wheelchair is my Congressman. [blinks] [blinks]
Funny thing about that; he first came on my radar when he upset-won the primary in the spring, and based purely on his party registration and the look of him, I started calling him the Hitler Youth Kid. Nothing did I know about the Hitler fandom and the barely-not-explicit white nationalism when I tossed off THAT psychic bulletin...
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and [Sleezebag] played a relatively small role in convincing them of that (the indoctrination apparatus is massive and takes only the odd nudge from him, since even he can only tweet so much).
That's what I don't believe. Regarding the election being rigged, he clearly played 50% of the role. If he hadn't played that role, people wouldn't be chanting that the election was rigged in quite such large numbers. If he repeatedly intoned to everyone, from 2016 to 2020, that elections were free and fair, we wouldn't have this as a widespread belief. This is totally at [Sleezebag]'s door, and he deliberately orchestrated this belief.
RIGGED led directly to the insurrection. He's responsible for this, and you can't simply posit that some other faceplate would have gotten the same results out of a mob. You need to come up with the political figure that's as shameless, well funded, and well connected as [Sleezebag] is, to do such a thing. He's not nuthin'.
A smaller set of that tenth also believes still loonier stuff about Satanic pedophiles, a pizza place, maybe lizardmen too at this point. If you add in the much larger group of enablers and fellow-travelers--the sort who didn't approve of the attack but suspect antifa did it, or can sympathize in a vague way, or who are simply less scared of them than they are of crazy leftists--you've got somewhere close to a third of the country. [Sleezebag] isn't controlling that wave, he's only precariously riding it,
I agree with you here. [Sleezebag] is not the fount of all conspirational windups.
I don't know what the solution is to reunify the country and convince people that the election wasn't stolen
Drain the swamp. For instance, stop pretending that [Sleezebag] is harmless or incompetent when it comes to this piece of social engineering. "Well I'd rather [Sleezebag] be in charge" would definitely count as spinelessness if uttered by a Republican congressperson. Or just pure realpolitik, that they're willing to undermine democracy in order to gain a political advantage in some other area.
and the pedo cabal doesn't exist.
Social media purveyors have been shutting down certain conspiracy theorists, starving them of platforms. It won't make such beliefs go away, but it could drain the swamp.
It's not practical to silence,
Actually from the swamp draining perspective, it is. The general doctrine and strategy goes by the name "No Platform" in various countries.
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(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/apple_growers.png)
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On the serious side, why should the country proceed with business as usual? When George Floyd was killed, I was surprised at the amount of BLM support that suddenly turned up, but I certainly wasn't upset about it.
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On the serious side, why should the country proceed with business as usual? When George Floyd was killed, I was surprised at the amount of BLM support that suddenly turned up, but I certainly wasn't upset about it.
Partly due to the fact that they had nothing else to do, while being in lock-down (or out of work, etc, due to C-19). Actually, the best time for that to have happened, unfortunately, as it has allowed it to remain near the forefront of out limited, want it now, 24 hews cycle perceptions.
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I'm not sure it was unfortunate, notwithstanding the political cost. Maybe we needed the issue dominating some serious news cycles-
-'Cause Nazi Wednesday sure made it look like what the Black folks been trying to tell us about the kkkops all along had way more too it than we've wanted to believe. We ain't been trying to hear that...
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“Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass” -Mo Brooks
“1776 moment”-Marjorie Taylor Greene
Biden is “illegitimate usurper”-Paul Gosar
“call your congressman and feel free — you can lightly threaten them”-Madison Cawthorne
Loong list, including something about [illegally] wearing her gun to work [in Congress] -Lauren Bobert
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Okay, I've read half of a 270-page neonatal resuscitation text, so I can take a break. Bvan: obviously if [Sleezebag] had insisted there was no election fraud, there would be significant difficulty moving forward with that on his behalf--though it would still not be impossible, given that these people also believe that "antifa" dressed a guy up as a patriotic yak fetishist to frame good Americans. Anyway, [Sleezebag]'s signal is amplified by a vast horde of right-wing subsidiary personalities. One of them I happen to be familiar with is a guy named Dan Bongino. Dan is a rank demagogue with a practiced line of "well I'm just an ordinary non-elite American you can identify with, but something doesn't seem right to me" [nonsense]. I have no doubts that he could do everything [Sleezebag] does, and better, since he is fairly intelligent, can hold a train of coherent thoughts, and seems to have both military and security experience. If [Sleezebag] were removed, a Dan Bongino could inherit the priesthood and use it much more effectively. He could not get the presidency, but it is highly unlikely that anyone from that faction could get the presidency at this point. Doesn't matter.
No-platforming or silencing is ridiculously impracticable. You can't keep a tenth or more of your population from talking without turning into a duplicate of China. Shutting down Parler, or [Sleezebag]'s Twitter account, is a joke. Early signs are that they've already started switching to special encrypted apps. If those are shut down, they'll find other means, and each new protocol will make it more difficult to keep an eye on them. These people are almost sexually aroused by the thought of the government trying to oppress them. They've been thinking about it nonstop since their ancestors got kicked out of the Scottish borderlands circa 1650. I don't doubt that they would suffer tremendously in a crackdown, and possibly lose in the long run depending how you define winning and losing. More probably we would all lose, and America would come out the other side a much poorer, less happy, less free country.
EDIT: On a more positive note, it's entirely probable that the temperature will cool considerably once the lockdowns end. As others have noted, the Floyd riots kicked off a couple of months after they started, and things have been on a high level of crazy since. Letting people get out of the house and back to work will not restart things, but they will make some of us feel less besieged, which is good. I adjusted okay, but I'm practically a hermit anyway; my family life is almost my whole life, and I socialize almost exclusively online. I don't think it'll be sufficient by itself, but if we can get those blasted vaccines rolling things should calm down a bit and buy us some time. For what, I don't know.
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He's going to Alamo, TX for some unknown reason, but the symbology is there
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Ah, he's going to visit his beautiful wall.... Part of his Retrospective tour of accomplishments.
I wonder if he's going to cross the border and ask for asylum....
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[E_T again a Japanese stealth assassin] [twice]
'Lok - You haven't answered my questions. I was really asking.
As for this morning's post, I'll mostly cosign Brandon's reply and add that the Schwarzenegger tape points the way to one of the very best things that can happen - the Pig is not the party, and ALL prominent Republicans need to make the same speech, LEAD, say it was a lie. Nut up and say - I'm Not With Him, He's Not A Conservative. That's the most healing, unifying thing that can happen.
As to this last, MAN, it is an ongoing shock how consistently your articulate and well-reasoned arguments always end in "so let them off the hook. Ignore the café on fire; this is fine. Let them organize."
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[E_T again a Japanese stealth assassin] [twice]
'Lok - You haven't answered my questions. I was really asking.
As for this morning's post, I'll mostly cosign Brandon's reply and add that the Schwarzenegger tape points the way to one of the very best things that can happen - the Pig is not the party, and ALL prominent Republicans need to make the same speech, LEAD, say it was a lie. Nut up and say - I'm Not With Him, He's Not A Conservative. That's the most healing, unifying thing that can happen.
What, and lose the next election (primary, mind you)?? Never...
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[damnit E_T, once in a while I'd like to answer the post just above me when I started typing]
[E_T again a Japanese stealth assassin] [twice]
'Lok - You haven't answered my questions. I was really asking.
As for this morning's post, I'll mostly cosign Brandon's reply and add that the Schwarzenegger tape points the way to one of the very best things that can happen - the Pig is not the party, and ALL prominent Republicans need to make the same speech, LEAD, say it was a lie. Nut up and say - I'm Not With Him, He's Not A Conservative. That's the most healing, unifying thing that can happen.
What, and lose the next election (primary, mind you)?? Never...
Eh. If everybody does it, maybe they'll start a fad for telling the truth and doing what's best for the whole country and small government and taking personal responsibility - all the genuine admirable conservative values -aside from small government being the wrong thing half the time- that Reagan crowded out.
Good leaders lead their people where they want to go - and also sometimes decide what the people want and talk them into it. I'm dead serious. Good leadership could theoretically fix this. Sales and focus-group governance that forgot what the point of attaining office is, good governing, broke things almost as much as greedy bigots drawing the votes/money/support of greedy bigots.
Leadership. ;b;
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hehehe..... complaining about traffic on here....
Black Woman named interim Cap Police Chief
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/11/955598516/in-historic-first-u-s-capitol-police-name-yogananda-pittman-as-acting-chief
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I've been very entertained this week, and I've enjoyed your company.
And you irritate me. A lot.
Watch them cut the sistah off at the knees.
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And you irritate me. A lot.
I love you to BUncle.... :Smoochies:
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Backatcha. No homo.
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My answer is that you're arguing based on assumptions I don't share. I guess the short answer would be that it's satisfying to punish [Sleezebag], and he would deserve it many times over, but there are a whole host of reasons why it would be tactically unsound. He deserves punishment, yes, but Saddam Hussein deserved it even more and we know how that turned out. Also it just plain ain't gonna happen, in terms of impeachment and conviction. We don't have the time or the votes to do it before he's gone anyway, and if we do he'll be gone like two days early. He won't be holding elected office again unless the country gets so dysfunctional that formalities like censure or impeachment will be an irrelevance. You could in theory get him to jail, but it'd be a real long shot unless you did something to rig it, which aside from being wrong would give extra ammo to his followers and--I can't stress this enough--would see him promptly replaced by somebody less stupid. Fuhrers don't have to actually be capable of solving any of the problems they promise to solve. They're only idols, after all. Finally, it's no good talking about making examples when a third of the country's lost faith in the system (when Dems are in charge; another third loses faith when they aren't) and we're working on pure will-to-power politics.
Now, as for Cruz and Hawley, open season. They're doing nothing useful and they're both transparently terrible. Provided they can disappear into a deep hole without hurting rule of law, obliviate away.
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He could not get the presidency, but it is highly unlikely that anyone from that faction could get the presidency at this point. Doesn't matter.
I say it does. You have continued to dismiss the power of a troublemaker who holds the Presidency. If your average village idiot in the global village cannot in fact hold the Presidency, then they are not a threat equal to [Sleezebag].
I wonder what kind of "wound up person" will make a Presidential run in 2024, other than [Sleezebag]? Although, since Biden isn't a freak, it is far more likely that he'll get 2 terms. So, what knucklehead makes a run in 2028?
No-platforming or silencing is ridiculously impracticable. You can't keep a tenth or more of your population from talking without turning into a duplicate of China.
They'd straight up call it censorship if that was the intent. "No platforming" means that various entities do not allow their private resources to be used for equal air time. The Trumpian mob is not owed a platform. First Amendment only protects from interference by the government. Private entities can boycott and silence you however they like. In which case, you have to come up with your own media resources to run your silly propaganda campaign.
Shutting down Parler, or [Sleezebag]'s Twitter account, is a joke. Early signs are that they've already started switching to special encrypted apps. If those are shut down, they'll find other means,
That's fine. Let them keep dancing with the logistics of running successful media networks. It's not entirely easy.
and each new protocol will make it more difficult to keep an eye on them.
No reason to care. Even when their intentions are broadcast loud and clear for all to see and know, even when the date of an insurrection is announced, it matters not. Arresting them after the fact wouldn't proceed any differently either.
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McConnell is said to be pleased about impeachment, believing it will be easier to purge [Sleezebag] from the G.O.P.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mitch-mcconnell-[Sleezebag]-impeachment.html
-What I figured out for him on Nazi Wednesday.
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https://www.russellmoore.com/2021/01/11/the-roman-road-from-insurrection/
From Russell Moore. Thought BUncle might like it, old Southern Baptist that he is.
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[ninja'd - will click]
b? FWIW, I've been pretty satisfied with your behavior/level of civility in this thread. Keep up the good work.
My answer is that you're arguing based on assumptions I don't share.
You indicated long before this that it wasn't an argument you've dreamed all your life of being in for very long, so I call your attention to the point I'd already made about more Schwarzenegger speeches and leadership, and don't engage the rest of this latest post.
However, in the name of I Want To Understand, I'd be obliged if you'd expand considerably on those assumptions you mention. I made two, in the same sentence about his thoughts while he addressed the mob, that I'm not in love with defending, but I think I definitely want to stand behind the rest.
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https://www.russellmoore.com/2021/01/11/the-roman-road-from-insurrection/
From Russell Moore. Thought BUncle might like it, old Southern Baptist that he is.
Me or Moore? Both, I guess.
I went in with my cringe reflex armed, 'cause I ain't see a public political statement by a Southern Baptist who didn't answer to Dr. Carter that didn't provoke embarrassment/disgust/rage/etc. in decades.
-I have quibbles, but I'm emailing the link to Rev. Dr. Buster's Daddy. Moore seems to have his head straight. Thanks for sharing.
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Now if we can make it through the next 24 hours w/o the treason amounting to anything other than -clown- theater, and no political murders/martial law, I'll be able to relax a little---
-In 15 days - maybe.
Guess not.
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Liz Cheney: "The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened without the President...I will vote to impeach the President."
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I should make clear that my stance has actually shifted - I was anticipating martial law on account of Antifa-did-it if he was still President Thursday morning. I still find it unbearable that he's Traitor-in-Chief with pardon powers and not under arrest since Wednesday afternoon. However - I'm persuaded that he can't pardon himself, and Pence would --- since they've already drag-assed around this long like the Brave Heroes they are, let 'peachment take a month or whatever. Too late to do it right.
But then throw the whole law library at him, from Georgia election tampering to cop-killer to the Treason thing, don't spare going through every felony he committed as President-Elect and every felony since, get Rudy, get everyone, send him to prison so hard anyone who shook his hand in the last five years bleeds from the butthole. Selah Amen.
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The Founders had good classical educations, them as had much education at all, and they knew ALL about political mob violence, dangers to the Republic thereof, in a lot finer detail than you or I, having been forced to read extensively about it in the original Latin as lads. Please accept my assurances that what the Treason Pig was doing about 11:30 am on Nazi Wednesday was one of the specific sorts of things they had in mind when they put impeachment in the constitution.
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This guy just needs to denounce the Cheney Bund, and he'd be eligible for I might consider voting for him for something. (Torture and Patriot Act and assorted war and other crimes not cool and I swore an oath 'bout Republikkans near 20 years ago.)
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Drew Griffin @CNN reporting Capitol insurrection Stop the Steal organizer Ali Alexander said he was getting help from three members of Congress (Paul Gosar, Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks).
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It's been a slow day, by the standards of the week, but a busy night. -And I've been posting a very tiny fraction of what-all interesting I see.
'Tachment embiggens.
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Michigan Republican Fred Upton says he will vote to impeach [Sleezebag], joining John Katko, Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney.
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b? FWIW, I've been pretty satisfied with your behavior/level of civility in this thread. Keep up the good work.
I have a long history of political debate. This isn't a challenge. You should have seen me going up my alt-right learning curve with a bona fide psycho during [Sleezebag]'s 2016 election campaign. Then he won, and I was like, all my nice words didn't matter at all. So I've done a lot less political debate in the past 4 years. There's more history, but basically when [Sleezebag] got in, and the people I'd had debates with got more and more wound up, I stopped engaging them.
I can handle debating people, that I think you've demonstrated, you can't. But I do have limits. I've learned that the conspirational windup crowds are like emotional vampires. The more you push against their ideations, the stronger they become. That's why I stopped.
But I do feel a strong moral obligation to speak against evil, at the moments when it's needed. Getting in a random word fight with a creep, isn't needed. That can actually get you killed, if you really lack judgment on who you're talking to and what you're saying. But like in the halls of Congress the other day, that was the time to speak against evil. And the people who did not, who doubled down, are horrible contemptible human beings.
One of my most taxing workouts ever, was debating a holocaust denier who came to one of our Asheville Skeptics meetings. I had to take a break for 25 minutes and go for a walk. Let the other folks handle him for the interim. We actually became sorta friends afterwards, because we were in similar "living out of our vehicles" circumstances in Asheville. He had a weird mix of beliefs, and he swore up and down that he was not anti-semitic. Unpacking the psychology of such a person, was quite an exercise. We've drifted apart since then.
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would see him promptly replaced by somebody less stupid.
Again, who is this mythical politician you're referring to? [Sleezebag] got where he did because he's selling something the mob wants. Aside from narcissism, he had Reality TV training. The mob likes dumb. There aren't a lot of people with his skill set lining up to do his kind of damage.
David Duke? The country's been there, done that.
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You Tube joins Twitter, et al with Banning [Sleezebag]
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would see him promptly replaced by somebody less stupid.
Again, who is this mythical politician you're referring to? [Sleezebag] got where he did because he's selling something the mob wants. Aside from narcissism, he had Reality TV training. The mob likes dumb. There aren't a lot of people with his skill set lining up to do his kind of damage.
David Duke? The country's been there, done that.
I am extremely thankful that someone with real intelligence had not been in [Sleezebag]'s (and other Wend organizers) position to do the coup correctly instead of the Clown theater that we got instead.
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and also thankful that Bearu hasn't been in here :rolleyes:
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and
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to do the coup correctly instead of the Clown theater that we got instead.
I think you folks have a bad habit of discounting Clown theater. Being taken not so seriously, is exactly how someone does operative harm. "Oh, those protesters? We didn't take them that seriously."
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Identify, then, the strategic purpose served by 1/6. It didn't stop the certification of the electoral votes, it didn't so much as bruise a single congressperson--though it did nudge several of them away from [Sleezebag] support--and it appalled everyone non-crazy who was otherwise inclined to support [Sleezebag] for he's-not-a-leftist reasons. It gave Twitter, Amazon et al an excuse to crack down on Trumpist social media. In terms of actual damage done, they snitched Pelosi's laptop (dunno if she's got it back yet), took some humiliating selfies which doxxed a good chunk of them and are currently leading to arrests, and killed one cop while losing four of their own. They also lost the "element of surprise" in that the cops will now be compelled to crank up security at all future events so that stunts like this will take considerably more effort, and finally there's yet another bloody impeachment hearing. Good job, idiots. From their point of view, it was a complete fiasco. A halfway competent insurgent commander could have done actual damage under those circumstances. I don't think it would have achieved any strategic goal either, since Trumpism is a dead-end overall, but it wouldn't have been the flop this was. Which is not to downplay how alarming it could be to all the non-loons--it's just that alarming is all it was.
BUncle: I think all non-[Sleezebag] Republicans would be wise to repudiate Trumpism to see if they can salvage their party, yes. I doubt it will work in the near-term; they'll need to lose a bunch of primaries, then have the general contests lost, before the Trumpists learn that the crap won't sell anymore and stick to terrorism. This will be an extremely difficult position for the GOP to extract itself from, but America's not set up to be a one-party state so it's my hope that something else will pop up to serve the interests of non-Dems. My hope is they'll rebrand to serious libertarianism but I'm not holding my breath.
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As for unshared assumptions, I thought I had referred to them. To put it more explicitly, you're speaking as if ... how do I put it? As if there's a solid body of real Americans and a fringe of loons who can be punished. And also as if getting rid of [Sleezebag] would make those loons significantly less dangerous. I still believe the country is divided in three (Dem, Rep, Ind/disaffected), they're about equal-sized, and while the rightists differ in fervor and loyalty they will not change their perceived interests just because the doofus goes. There will continue to be a right-wing party of some description and it will consist of much the same people with broadly similar prejudices to those they have shown their whole lives. They will have to modify their message, and probably vote in some new messengers, to win over enough of the disaffected middle to gain power again. Possibly not as much as either of us hopes, though, because the American people have a surprisingly short memory.
The true, true believers might barely change their behavior at all, only remodel themselves as a permanent loyal-opposition-in-exile. The Shiites have been doing that for over a thousand years and show no sign of slowing down. It might eventually settle down or fade away, IDK. Anyway, I should probably be writing or studying or something, so don't take it bad if I don't follow this discussion as closely as you do.
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Identify, then, the strategic purpose served by 1/6.
From [Sleezebag]'s standpoint, it strengthens his cult and puts money directly in his pocket from cult member donations.
From the standpoint of the insurrectionist groups like the Proud Boys, it demonstrates that they're capable of an action, that they're "tough"... but I'm not sure if they have a strategy.
Good job, idiots. From their point of view, it was a complete fiasco.
The mob didn't have a strategy, and it's unreasonable to expect that it would. The mob expressed anger. To the extent that people in the mob are conspiracy theorists, they've lost the locus of control in their lives. Storming Congress, is taking back their control. So the mob did get something they wanted out of it, which is to bully and harass Congress and make them afraid again.
A halfway competent insurgent commander could have done actual damage under those circumstances.
This is a fantasy and a distraction. We've all been talking about insurrection as a matter of law, not as a matter of practical effect. What we really had here was a riot that took place on "sacred ground". There was never any credible plan to kill members of Congress. Bully, harass, and terrorize them, yes, and that mission was accomplished.
This isn't a revolution. This is an action within the confines of a democratic system, pushing its boundaries really really hard. Rather than focusing on this as some kind of "failed truck bombing episode", which it clearly wasn't, look at it as directing violent mobs. Then it's not so funny, because it demonstrates what organizers are capable of:
- support of the Executive branch
- support of the police
since Trumpism is a dead-end overall,
It doesn't have to end. The product that [Sleezebag] offers, will continue to be a valuable product to many people as long as [Sleezebag] is alive and functioning as head of his cult. Internet platforms and banks are now determined to make his life difficult though. In the past, I seem to recall the SPLC bankrupting the Aryan Nations with lawsuits, so it is possible to kill an organization by drying up its money. That of course doesn't stop neo-Nazism from existing and finding some other way to organize. This will put evolutionary pressure on [Sleezebag], but as long as he manages to stay alive and in the USA, he can probably do his thing. He'd have to come up with his own crowdfunding method though. I suppose the old fashioned expedient of licking a stamp and putting a check in the mail, can still work.
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As for unshared assumptions, I thought I had referred to them. To put it more explicitly, you're speaking as if ... how do I put it? As if there's a solid body of real Americans and a fringe of loons who can be punished. And also as if getting rid of [Sleezebag] would make those loons significantly less dangerous. I still believe the country is divided in three (Dem, Rep, Ind/disaffected), they're about equal-sized, and while the rightists differ in fervor and loyalty they will not change their perceived interests just because the doofus goes. There will continue to be a right-wing party of some description and it will consist of much the same people with broadly similar prejudices to those they have shown their whole lives. They will have to modify their message, and probably vote in some new messengers, to win over enough of the disaffected middle to gain power again. Possibly not as much as either of us hopes, though, because the American people have a surprisingly short memory.
The true, true believers might barely change their behavior at all, only remodel themselves as a permanent loyal-opposition-in-exile. The Shiites have been doing that for over a thousand years and show no sign of slowing down. It might eventually settle down or fade away, IDK. Anyway, I should probably be writing or studying or something, so don't take it bad if I don't follow this discussion as closely as you do.
OJ totally did it, and did society [make up your own hyperbole that means "a lot of"] harm getting away with it in public while everyone was watching. I don't think much of anyone disputes any of that anymore.
This is like that.
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I don't think much of anyone disputes any of that anymore.
I do, because I never cared enough about OJ's trial to follow it closely. Soundbites aren't law. He got tried by a jury of his peers and found Not Guilty. The legal standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the jury had reasonable doubt. So, what was the nature of their doubt? They're just stupid and gullible, and we sitting back on our couches know what really happened? Since we didn't actually do the work of sitting on the jury, I have my doubts about the level of self-congratulation many people give themselves, about their knowledge of "what happened".
How closely would I have to follow OJ's trial, to change my mind?
Similarly, Zimmerman was found Not Guilty. Another one of these cases where lots of people declare their "certainty" about what happened.
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Oh, to my infinite disgust, Daddy watched the trial, and I ended up seeing the Whole Sad Thing - somebody butchered those people, leaving some of his hair on the victims, and tracked some of their blood back to his house.
The more interesting point is that so much of the forensic evidence was collected in an illegal warrantless search that, in a just(er) world, he'd have gotten out on appeal. The Man is more dangerous to my life and liberty than retired athletes.
But really, let's not talk about OJ. I made an on-topic point, and you quibble with a dubiously relevant bit. That we want to belabor the OJ trial 26 years later underscores the damage I was pointing at. Start a thread or something.
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He did it, and he did it on TV while we watched.
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and you quibble with a dubiously relevant bit.
It's not a quibble. I challenged your conception of law. Too often, people act as though the court of public opinion, is a court of law.
That we want to belabor the OJ trial 26 years later underscores the damage I was pointing at.
Zimmerman is more recent. The issue of courts of public opinion, does not go away.
Start a thread or something.
OJ isn't about to become some new hobby of mine. As for starting threads, I was under the impression that you had a clearinghouse "politics thread" for a reason.
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This is all weak, and not worth my time. Not the kind of politics OJ turned into, and thanks for burying my original point.
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To the extent the observations in the attached represent the actual case, and those assertions seem credible and extremely in line with what I saw on TV and what inarguably happened, a LOT of public servants, high and low, betrayed the public trust of their positions.
What was intentional crimes and what was unconscious bias halfassery, I cannot yet say, but I remain interested in what the investigations in this line turns up.
[it embiggens]
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If this is what it sounds like, that is serious conspiracy to/active participation in a cluster of related top-level felonies.
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This is all weak, and not worth my time. Not the kind of politics OJ turned into, and thanks for burying my original point.
I'll be unsubscribing to this thread now.
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I'll be banning you 24 hours and doing so every time you post your petulant unsubscribe announcements. Grow up.
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Also saw another video of someone with a bullhorn who CLEARLY knew where they were going directing the mob which doors to break down and where to go.
Basically, it's looking more like an organized, planned attack with the crowd as cover to me.
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I'll be banning you 24 hours and doing so every time you post your petulant unsubscribe announcements. Grow up.
BU, love you, but I think you're going too far here/are a little to close to this.
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More going on than shows in here, including that that was also for the last ten times he did the same thing - this time, uniquely, before I said anything in my official capacity, because he was only being rude to me. There has been a recent warning.
[ninja'd]
See also the Pressley thing a few posts upstream, and a whole range of rumors from solid journalists that sound credible but lack named sources and much detail so far. Appears that we'll know a lot more in coming months.
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Also saw another video of someone with a bullhorn who CLEARLY knew where they were going directing the mob which doors to break down and where to go.
Basically, it's looking more like an organized, planned attack with the crowd as cover to me.
They have had some sensitive materials go missing during the riot. I would have also not put it past a few people to have planted a few high tech surveillance devices in various places, esp in some of the hearing rooms, to listen in to closed door committee meetings. And all they have to do it be quiescent until getting an outside signal to turn on so that they might not even show up in some standard device removal sweeps.
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The Hitler Youth Kid told a local paper he was packing heat, on the floor of Congress, on Nazi Wednesday.
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The House has impeached the Pig, 232-197, 10 Republicans voting for.
Word is, Mitch ain't convening the Senate until the 19th.
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The oldest picture of [Sleezebag]
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/archaeology/hidden-cave-popcorn-leads-to-worlds-oldest-cave-art-discovery/news-story/a2814b75a7f43c1ad1d177629476593c
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Small wonder he's so vane.
I mean, 45,000+ years old?
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New York is cancelling Financial contacts with [Sleezebag] Organization. Lawyers are going to get involved, but it will hit him further in the pocket book. Hopefully, he won't also have Presidential Pension to draw off of. Although, his followers will help pay for his [poop], at least until they lose their jobs while in jail, etc...
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It struck me, a thing the
Nazis Republicans are only 99% or a little more wrong about?
Antifa. I may have never posted the opinion I settled on about 2 1/2 years ago, that I know enough about the Spanish Civil War to write a medium paragraph, and that much makes it clear that, as much as I looove the idea of punching Nazis like they deserve, as much as the Nazis are pulling criminal violence everywhere, we don't want no Spanish Civil War crap up in here. That gets you General Franco for a generation, and sucked pretty bad while it was still the 30s w/ no one in charge of Spain. Antifa is not a good idea.
Gandhi and King had it right with non-violent resistance being the most moral and effective way to embarrass a modern free society into doing the right thing, and they did it without live via satellite TV coverage. Sit on the ground and take a tiny fraction of the whoopin's those giants did. Fighting the Nazis and/or po-po and getting murdered and/or going to jail is for suckers.
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many of the ones sitting (non-violent) did die, if not immediately, but later (bomb under bedroom on Xmas eve comes to immediate mind from long list of examples)
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more hitting him in the Pocket book
Deutsche Bank will no longer do business with President Donald [Sleezebag], a move that will cut off his business from a major source of loans that once helped fund his golf courses and hotels. Germany's biggest bank has decided to refrain from future business with the president and his company, a person familiar with the bank's thinking told CNN Business. The news, first reported by the New York Times, follows last week's deadly riot at the US Capitol.
Can't make loans to make payroll and pay bills in timely manner, your staff leaves and power gets shut off....
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hehe, he'll have to go get loans from "Jewish Bankers" to make ends meet...
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I'm uncomfortable with that joke. You wouldn't happen to be one of that admirable and overachieving people?
Related, I had a longish conversation with Solver a few years ago, about prejudice against our respective peoples, in which I expressed jealousy that Jews get the Really Smart Mastermind stereotype and us honkies from the southeastern US only get super-strength. Not that it isn't true in both cases, so mind your manners, but I'm willing to trade, please.
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Oh, and also related -good segue, in fact- it ought to shock no one who's paying attention to what I say going back a few years that I'm a little miserable lately -been going on since George Floyd died in the Midwest at the hands of yankees and the General's statue in front of the Old Courthouse down here was punished- at all the talk about the Confederacy and treason related to that, like it was eighteen sixty-freakin'-five.
This is poking at a sore spot us pale SE people have - we are never allowed to live down something that passed out of living memory forever in my 80 year-old mother's childhood. We are retarded inbred hillbillies who talk funny and I have experienced actual job discrimination/hostile working environment. We're not allowed to object to any of the jokes, because THAT proves we're also [jerk, sphincter]s. My actual boss actually said I had a chip on my shoulder to my face for objecting to oppressive bigotry in the workplace, and thought that was okay.
I'm not defending the Confederacy, a truly bad idea, and not that battle flag, a symbol slimed by racists from the beginning and 'til the end of time - but lumped in with all that I eternally get, and personally is how I DO take it when you take away that ugly statue that was there when I got here and I didn't want, and I am personally affronted when randos on the nets show their ignorance of that sad episode like so many, many of the victors writing history.
I reckon that saying we're the ones who can't let go of the civil war is one of them there stereotypes, and not true like that we are mighty strong and can beat your rude yankee butt.
I wasn't there. It was like this when I showed up, and I have never displayed that battle flag, and have put in a lot of work in my life trying to get my head straight about various prejudices. I take it personally, and I hate my life.
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-AOC made some remarks that hurt my feelings, is what set that off. I dig intelligent women, I've never disagreed with her before, I wanted to be MR. Occasional Cortez, and now I am heartbroken.
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You know your a Redneck when....
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Deutsche Bank will no longer do business with President Donald [Sleezebag], a move that will cut off his business from a major source of loans that once helped fund his golf courses and hotels. Germany's biggest bank has decided to refrain from future business with the president and his company, a person familiar with the bank's thinking told CNN Business. The news, first reported by the New York Times, follows last week's deadly riot at the US Capitol.
Of course, none of this and related stuff would've happened if he was re-elected.
Its just institutions and rich people getting even when they see the chance.
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I'm uncomfortable with that joke.
Ditto.
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-AOC made some remarks that hurt my feelings, is what set that off. I dig intelligent women, I've never disagreed with her before, I wanted to be MR. Occasional Cortez, and now I am heartbroken.
care to point them out?
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Sure. Gimme a couple minutes.
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1349390352025669633 -video.
She did a livestream Tuesday night. Said a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff. Here's her twitter, https://twitter.com/AOC, and you can scroll down 10 posts and listen to several other short highlights. She looks great in the black turtleneck, and the rest is 100%.
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Word is that Pig is planning to stiff Rudy for legal fees.
The only real news there is that he said it out loud to some minions.
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Hm, video, have to wait for later.
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I was wrong.
Legal Eagle, the lawyer who makes those A Real Lawyer Looks At videos on YouTube, points out that Pig's speech riling up the crowd on Nazi Wednesday was an "elected" official making a political speech, which naturally enjoys the very highest level of first amendment protection. Thus he maybe cannot be convicted of felonies on that alone.
I say that a reasonable person would not conclude that his riling incitement would not lead to/encourage a riot in which people would surely be in peril of their lives, etc. Sufficiently wanton and depraved -if not actual conspiracy and commission- criminal acts of speech hurdles the 1st amendment barrier, IMAO, but Lionel Hutz ain't up to that; Victor Sifuentezs probably is.
[edit; figured out how to spell commission]
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Yeah, from what I've gathered, he hasn't fulfilled the LEGAL requirement of felony incitement, but that doesn't mean much as impeachment doesn't require that level? There was a couple legal experts on the radio that lost me somewhere.
What I took from it, though, is an impeachment hearing in the Senate might actually be used to harm a Biden presidency as it could be used to delay Biden's ability to get staff positions confirmed...
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Oh, it's utterly, totally, impeachable as heck. I was talking about criminal convictions. The fire in a crowded theater principal should apply.
And you know, governing is work if they're doing it right. We don't pursue justice merely when it's EASY.
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Yeah, from what I've gathered, he hasn't fulfilled the LEGAL requirement of felony incitement, but that doesn't mean much as impeachment doesn't require that level? There was a couple legal experts on the radio that lost me somewhere.
What I took from it, though, is an impeachment hearing in the Senate might actually be used to harm a Biden presidency as it could be used to delay Biden's ability to get staff positions confirmed...
which is why House is looking very closely at delaying sending the Indictment to Senate until after Biden's first 100 days, so that the Senate can work on things that are needed to be done. I agree.
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I would be interested in a conversation about a strong working definition of fascism, that covered everything from original Nazis to the KKK in whatever incarnation, and maybe even usefully excludes some fash-ish movements...
I have thoughts, but I'd like others to go first - and in the interest of an interesting conversation/intellectual exercise, please tell me what's already in your head, and don't look it up or do any homework in the first round or so. I want to arrive at OUR definition before we discuss Wikipedia's...
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Letter to Congress Person Val Demmings (D), FL 10th Congressional District
I am an Air Force Veteran, A life long resident of Central Florida and Voted for you in the last election. I am a Registered Libertarian.
I have long thought that Donald [Sleezebag] was/is one of the greatest enemies to our Democracy for a very long time and had been seeing the events of 1/6/21 building up for a long time as well. I was not surprised at the events, but greatly angered that it had happened.
I would like nothing more to see him face the consequences of his actions, but am also very connotative that the Senate (and the rest of Congress) now needs to focus very much on getting Pres elect Biden's Nominees confirmed and early legislation debated and passed without delay and sideshow distractions. Get the Nation's essential business handled before taking this up.
Additionally, delaying the sending of the Impeachment to the Senate will allow the various Law Enforcement/Intelligence agencies to dig up additional facts and witnesses that can be used in the Senate Trial.
I implore you to communicate to your Colleagues and leadership to delay sending the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate, at least until after the New President's first 100 days in office.
Thank you very much,
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I've been meaning to ask you when you changed party registration.
I thought I remembered something sometime, so I couldn't call you a gay republican in response to when you called me naïve. ;) Anyway, to be clear: this letter is from you?
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I grew up Republican, left to become Democrat in the Mid/Late 80's, as the Party moved more away from my personal beliefs. Then was dissatisfied with the Democrats and had become Independent. I then found how ineffective that was and joined the Libertarian Party in early '90's. For a very long time, when me and my ex were living in Winter Park, we were the only Libertarians in Winter Park.... Even joked about it.
Some of the Libertarian ideals are a bit extreme, especially their stance on drugs, but they are closest to my personal political ideals than the others are or have become. I often call them "Republican Lite".
I've voted for candidates on both sides of the aisle. More and more recently, more against one than for the other, but really wanting some really viable 3rd option and/or a "None of the Above" to show my displeasure towards both possible candidates. I take weeks going over a ballot and making my decision for many candidates and ballot initiatives. I seriously (attempt to) take my role as an informed voter to heart. I very, very rarely leave any part of a ballot blank, because I would be abdicating my responsibility.
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and yeah, I Sent Congressperson Demmings that letter at the same time that I posted it here as well...
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I did briefly try to register Independent originally, but it was pointed out that all that got me was no voting in anyone's primaries, and I chose Democrat. Oddly, I despised the Democrats a lot less back then, all as the habitual constant Republican Obvious Lies have, ongoing, driven me further and further left for the ensuing 37 years. I voted against Reagan then, and I have voted against him ever since, and I will continue to do so until I die.
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I would be interested in a conversation about a strong working definition of fascism, that covered everything from original Nazis to the KKK in whatever incarnation, and maybe even usefully excludes some fash-ish movements...
I have thoughts, but I'd like others to go first - and in the interest of an interesting conversation/intellectual exercise, please tell me what's already in your head, and don't look it up or do any homework in the first round or so. I want to arrive at OUR definition before we discuss Wikipedia's...
the thing is, whom definition would that be? After watching some coverage of the March part (before the actual act was committed) of 1/6, it is interesting that the "fascist" were calling the other side "fascist"... even political definition of terms are subjective....
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My Ex was a long time Log Cabin Republican (Gay Republican Organization), before Bush 1 had spoken to one of the Republican Conventions about not wanting (or needing, can;t really remember the exact wording) the gays in the party, so he and his partner, at the time had quit the party. He had also joined Dems, but was also not liking them much and joined me in the Libertarian Party... And as far as I know, was (a Libertarian) all the way up to his death on New Years Day, 2010...
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https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/11/military-right-wing-extremism-457861 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/11/military-right-wing-extremism-457861)
Crow, in a call over the weekend with Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy, requested the "expedited investigation and courts-martial against those involved" in last week's riot. The military could also try former personnel in military courts.
The Congress member also said he asked McCarthy to direct the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division to review the backgrounds of all troops who will be deployed at Biden’s inauguration next week “to ensure that deployed members are not sympathetic to domestic terrorists,” his office said in a statement.
And on Monday, Sen. Tammy Duckworth, an Illinois Democrat and Iraq War veteran, also demanded the Pentagon investigate the allegations (https://subscriber.politicopro.com/f/?id=00000176-f20b-de58-af77-f66f00710000&source=email) that troops and military retirees played a role in the storming of the U.S. Capitol by a pro-[Sleezebag] mob.
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[another damn ninja] PLEASE do not do homework yet. I want to know what YOU think. Not clicking on that, and I want to delete. Edit: I did when he did it again.
I would be interested in a conversation about a strong working definition of fascism, that covered everything from original Nazis to the KKK in whatever incarnation, and maybe even usefully excludes some fash-ish movements...
I have thoughts, but I'd like others to go first - and in the interest of an interesting conversation/intellectual exercise, please tell me what's already in your head, and don't look it up or do any homework in the first round or so. I want to arrive at OUR definition before we discuss Wikipedia's...
the thing is, whom definition would that be? After watching some coverage of the March part (before the actual act was committed) of 1/6, it is interesting that the "fascist" were calling the other side "fascist"... even political definition of terms are subjective....
This is exactly why I think it would be useful to kick around a definition.
Off the top of my head, we want to include all the movements pretty universally considered fascist, so starting with Mussolini, including Franco and Hitler, the KKK and the Proud Boys (are going to be a problem, I think) and I believe Milosevic's Serbian murder machine is generally included, but not sure, and there are doubtless many others I'm not thinking of - we'll need Geo's Euro input. We'll probably want to exclude many as not Major enough to muddy the waters with. Should be interesting to get into kinds of fascism, and probably necessary. -BushJr was pretty fascist, but does Reagan count? Stuff like that.
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I'm an adherent of Pournelle's Political Definition
http://www.baen.com/chapters/Axes.htm (http://www.baen.com/chapters/Axes.htm)
Now I do not claim this is the model of modern politics; I do claim that it is a far better model than the one we're using, and in fact I go farther and claim that the "left-right" model so ubiquitous amongst us is harmful. And while I understand that some ideologues find the "left-right" model useful to their cause, and thus have a powerful incentive to gloss over its failures, what puzzles me is why so-called objective political "scientists" don't try to abolish it, at least in freshman political science classes.
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What is wrong with you? I typed in perfectly good English not to do that. I'm deleting both your posts temporarily.
I want you to type some of your own thoughts. I want to read what E_T thinks, not Politico -fashy bunch, btw- not Pournelle -it's complicated, but he's kinda disqualified-. I have read neither.
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then have your echo chamber
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Wrong.
I have wantonly abused my powers in this, and if you really, really want to spoil what I was trying to get going, I will put those posts back now, noting that you don't care what I really, really want and clearly asked for repeatedly. Just say.
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I have restored the posts, mostly to leave the inconsiderate behavior out to see.
Look y'all, I'm crazy, and more than a little stirred up on day eight/year 40 of our ongoing national crisis. I just wanted to see a first round of the thoughts/opinions we're walking around with already, and if I wanted and echo chamber, I would have gone first -at considerable length. ---
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---I didn't want to contaminate what you think before you said.
Round two, I figure, if this takes off we'd maybe look up, for instance, Franco and the difference between various incarnations of the Klan and others, and see how more info about clear fascists colors things previously discussed.
Round three, look at actual definitions by others outside our circle and discuss.
Argument is a lot of work to do right and frustrating and too flammable - but there's still a lot of intellectual fun to be had in conversation between friends who may not agree letting their ideas -and even memories- wrestle, and maybe ultimately strive for consensus. I wish I had explained all this more carefully when I brought it up, but I did not know there was going to be a test, let alone someone peeing on clearly-expressed boundaries from a height.
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I also see that I was wrong about the first post -just news, but my eyes bounced off the URL that looked like something to do with defining fascism, not wanting to have my own thinking influenced- but right about the second.
My apologies for the mistake.
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Seen on Twitter:
Biden: I will work with the GOP
Dem base: ooh yes
GOP: Socialist babykilller biden
Biden: We will collaborate
GOP: [Sleezebag] wuz robbed
Biden: We can come together
GOP: Murdermob assemble and murder
Biden: Cut out the malarkey
GOP: Why so divisive. Now we can't cooperate. Your fault.
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This is Kevin Seefried, who has been arrested -
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21560.0;attach=21734;image)
-in Delaware. He is a Yankee.
There it is.
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Now now, who's to say his ancestors didn't come from Louisiana of all places? :whip:
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Staying out of this for reasons discussed in other thread, but here's Devereaux's opinion, on the off-chance you don't do ACOUP like the other nerds: https://acoup.blog/2021/01/15/miscellanea-insurrections-ancient-and-modern-and-also-meet-the-academicats/
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Biden is reportedly very serious about a massive relief bill.
It seems almost like he's been saving up most of his principals most of his career, just to get here - only unusual for a politician in not losing the plot over the decades...
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BTW, I spotted 10 lurkers -the three IPs I checked were American- in this thread at the same time late Tuesday morning. I've been feeling twitchy about it since, less now that I haven't seen anything like or related that in the interim. Just, I don't mind if some rando browsed and posted a link somewhere and decent people had a look - but, y'know, this country has a Nazi problem, and those jokers get up to some messed-up excrement...
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Oh, and also related -good segue, in fact- it ought to shock no one who's paying attention to what I say going back a few years that I'm a little miserable lately -been going on since George Floyd died in the Midwest at the hands of yankees and the General's statue in front of the Old Courthouse down here was punished- at all the talk about the Confederacy and treason related to that, like it was eighteen sixty-freakin'-five.
This is poking at a sore spot us pale SE people have - we are never allowed to live down something that passed out of living memory forever in my 80 year-old mother's childhood. We are retarded inbred hillbillies who talk funny and I have experienced actual job discrimination/hostile working environment. We're not allowed to object to any of the jokes, because THAT proves we're also [jerk, sphincter]s. My actual boss actually said I had a chip on my shoulder to my face for objecting to oppressive bigotry in the workplace, and thought that was okay.
I'm not defending the Confederacy, a truly bad idea, and not that battle flag, a symbol slimed by racists from the beginning and 'til the end of time - but lumped in with all that I eternally get, and personally is how I DO take it when you take away that ugly statue that was there when I got here and I didn't want, and I am personally affronted when randos on the nets show their ignorance of that sad episode like so many, many of the victors writing history.
I reckon that saying we're the ones who can't let go of the civil war is one of them there stereotypes, and not true like that we are mighty strong and can beat your rude yankee butt.
I wasn't there. It was like this when I showed up, and I have never displayed that battle flag, and have put in a lot of work in my life trying to get my head straight about various prejudices. I take it personally, and I hate my life.
Ok...trying to comprehend what she said that gets your nickers in a twist if you're claiming to not defend the actual confederacy or the flag.
Mom's specialty is Civil War era and I've picked up more than my fair share of abby-normal edumication on the topic as a result. I don't think it's quite as simplified as the general narrative. I also think it's obnoxious to try to erase that history (and frankly should be illegal given some of the laws passed immediately after the civil war), but I'm not one to tell anyone how they should feel about it either.
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My little brother is gay for that stuff, and so I could discuss, say, Braxton Bragg a little w/o embarrassing myself, despite the Silver War and related being of near-zero interest to me.
I never meant this was rational, just that when you've been beaten with a club enough, you get some PTSD that's triggered by clubs.
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Also, I'm kinda a major patriot for North Carolina, despite everything.
And calling it treason is, as a matter of actual fact, not super-correct; hell of a democracy, that I'm a citizen of by force, with bigotry/abuse towards me and my sainted mother adding insult to hypocrisy. There's a conversation to be had about secessionism v. treason, compare and contrast - including the notion of whether a free society can morally compel membership and still call itself free, notwithstanding other sorts of freedom involved and irony and all that. Just, y'all got too much blood on your hands to call me a killer like you're right and only I am wrong - and inbred.
Maybe this would be worth discussing more, what with way too many of us who feel that way also signing on to the hate politics, too, just like the Yankees think. Were'nt all Yankees got up to Nazi Wednesday, as I just this morning had to snooze a cousin on Facebook for another month for posting pictures of ladies who were there.
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Just wondering, but did your ancestors of 160 years ago already live in NC, BU?
I recon the answer is "yes", if I remember correctly the Waldesian stories you told me.
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You've known the answer and forgotten. The Waldensians were Savoy/Piedmont -it was just Italy by then, or soon after- people who showed up here in 1895. Definitely part of my cultural heritage -I showed you their rock buildings and one of the rock walls my own family built on our own land- but no blood relation.
Now of my own blood, Heinrick Weidner settled in Burke County in 1505. He claimed to be a prince of Saxe-Colberg-Gotha who lost a succession dispute, making me a distant relative of Prince Albert in-a-can and thus most of the crowned heads of Europe since, if only we believed his claim.
So yes, my roots right here go back over 500 years, and this is MY Heimat (w/o all the latter-day German neonazi stuff).
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SO, you know, I could've disassociated myself from my regional baggage online, and the greater Civ community has not notably punished me for choosing otherwise, and good job on that, Yankees and godless furiners. ;b;
But that option does not exist for me IRL outside my native region if I have to open my mouth at the gas station - and that's with I've been told repeatedly by outsiders here that I have well less of a local accent than usual. It's rigged against us, because we're slaver-racists, the worst kind after Hitler-megamurder-Nazis, and that makes it look awful for us to complain about ANYthing, and few ever do, even among ourselves. And the prejudice takes forms gross and subtle, too many to ever list in full - but I might be in my trailer counting my sweet, sweet pile of renfair money w/ my slutty girlfriend right now if the prejudice didn't exist, eternally annoy with its myriad manifestations of rudeness, and do me actual measurable harm. I was REALLY good at that.
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So, on trying to define fascism, does anyone know enough about Mussolini, the Roman Republic-Empire, and the story of the dying old man with quarrelling sons to talk about where Moose got the name? Pray elucidate in as much useful detail as you can.
Please no cheating - I'll help if what you recall has gaps.
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Wait - as an ugly American, I'm fuzzy on most all fine detail of post-Roman Euro history, but I don't think Saxe-Colberg-Gotha existed as exactly that subdivision of Saxony anything like 500 years ago. It would have just been Something Like That, and I regret the error.
-Ignore that and think about Mussolini, please.
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-Also, I wouldn't actually be counting large, large tip money on Friday - that's for Monday morning, at very latest. Sin w/ slutty girlfriend definitely mostly for weekdays, though; Friday-Saturday are school nights, when you save your energy and go to bed on time if you can.
I'm okay with letting my inner pedant out to play when it's funny.
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Biden's economic relief plan is getting a lot more good reviews than otherwise among Liberals Screaming on Twitter - albeit, w/ much asking for even more.
I honestly wonder how it's all ever gonna get paid for and whether it will do enough good to make up for that, but I delight in any leftward swing from someone like Biden in this country in Decade Four of a slide towards fascism.
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Have I relayed the reports I'm seeing that Pig has told minions to never say Nixon around him again?
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Have I relayed the reports I'm seeing that Pig has told minions to never say Nixon around him again?
Nope.
Saxe-Colberg? I assume you meant Coburg. And no, according to wiki the time you spoke of is a bit of a division between two lines of the Wettin's. Saxe-Coburg sprouted a couple centuries later from one of those two lines.
I had indeed forgotten the Savoy connection of the Waldensians.
I did remember the (ant)wall though. ;) And of course the heritage grounds.
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I claim precision in no spelling pulled from memory unless otherwise noted. Thank Jesus for auto-spellcheckers in everything these days, but they can keep up always with neither my vocabulary nor the words I make up and/or mangle some way on purpose.
Wasn't Saxe-Coburg-Gotha formed in Albert-in-a-can's lifetime or at least shortly before?
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1826, it appears - Albert barely skipped off to England and fertility in time.
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'Nets nerds let Google do too much of their thinking -and arguing- for them. ;nod
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Perfect segue - all these fakey Republikkan calls for "unity"? From the ones who assaulted national unity the most to begin with with the Big Lies? -Recall what the word fascism MEANS in Mussolini's original conception.
Sick burn or self-own? Both.
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Pig was conferring with a pillow salesman about imposing martial law today.
Not a hoax, not a dream, not an imaginary story or BU hype/exaggeration. An AP photographer got a distance closeup of the My Pillow guy's notes in hand as he entered the White House for a meeting with The Turd. Hand-obscured and difficult to read, but mentions of the Insurrection Act and imposing martial law legible, w/ some names like Sydney Powell and suchlike Nazi loons.
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We need police. I don't know what to do about problems with the sort of people who tend to go into that line of work, and it IS one of those professions that draws a type who tends to be a problem, and it IS a profession that throws its workers into contact with the worst element, and the worst element mostly comes from the poor, and the poor tend to be brown - and I'm pretty sure a lot of decent people go into policing and come out racist from that contact with the worst element.
My mom sez the other day that Sis and I are always down on the po-po. Couple hours later, I come back with "It's not political; we're from [hometown]". Our local police are notoriously bad.
I don't know what should be done about it - but we need police. We can't function as a society w/o police and soldiers and a functioning government to take care of business, keep thing running and protect us. We need police.
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I don't know what should be done about it - but we need police. We can't function as a society w/o police and soldiers and a functioning government to take care of business, keep thing running and protect us. We need police.
Police, of course. But soldiers?
It was the first time in my life I saw soldiers guarding public spaces after the bombing of our national airport a couple years ago.
Soldiers are for external threats, not internal.
But of course you live in a country where everyone and his pet can carry a gun to the streets, and own military assault equipment.
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We need soldiers to keep the Belgian soldiers out.
If the world was the way it ought to be, we wouldn't even need nearly as many police - but it is and we do.
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We need soldiers to keep the Belgian soldiers out.
I know the Belgian Paracommando's are good, but that good? A couple brigades are a bit much, even if they're only National Guard.
;)
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Y'all's bad news...
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The NRA filed for bankruptcy a couple days ago.
That wasn't a excruciatingly troublesome organization in my childhood in the 70s - but what it became soon after, and has grown into, is --- the Second Amendment shouldn't be more important than the First and the rest of the Constitution, and those jokers are willing to absolutely destroy ANYthing and ANYone who gets in the way of their beloved murder tools. The NRA is the Klan w/o sheets and a drag on the rotation of the planet.
It's probably too much to hope that the NRA is destroyed, but hope, all decent people should.
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It even made the news here.
But it seems they want to relocate to the Lone Star State?
Thing is, I find it weird that such a lobby group would get in financial trouble in the first place in a country like the US? It couldn't be for lack of support. Management reaming too much from the golden through perhaps?
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I CAN'T be arsed to read up on it, but yes, that it's just legal shenanigans involving to a move to THE gun-crazy state is what I also heard, yes. No idea who-all they're stiffing paying their bills to, but anyone owed large cash by the N.R.-freakin'-A. deserves being cheated and ruined, a lot like Giuliani and for very similar reasons. The N is for Nazi, if you ask me.
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Like, Nazi Republican Army.
AOC was on Maddow last night, and of COURSE the only clip from that I've seen is a minute and 1/2 of "Rep. Ocasio-Cortez on Congress members who may be sympathetic towards the rioter carrying Confederate flag: 'The Confederacy were a band of enemies and traitors to the U.S. ... if they find more sympathy with them, then perhaps they shouldn't be serving in the U.S. Congress.'"
Not even exactly bothering to complain anymore; just pointing and saying There It Is and no mention the dude in question is from Delaware. I wish people didn't display that thing, too, and for the same reason she does, plus. Nobody hates the freak polygamous Mormons like the regular Mormons do. (Except the ex-polygamists...)
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Coincidently -no really- I just googled something I saw on Twitter that looked to be a song lyric, and-
Not a syllable in the whole song about why the English are caught in the Vietnamese monkey trap Ireland has become to Britain -people who wanted to be King of England a long time ago kept sailing over there and coming back with Irish armies- and no reason there should be. I just heard this song for the first time and realized that they are me, just a little. I extend them my compassion and brotherhood, especially when they are peaceful.
None of this, to be perfectly clear, is any major significant part of my life or my worldview when I'm home and Yankees aren't poking at the sore spot.
I'm an American, God Bless America, and I just want to be accepted like everybody else. It's a couple of generations past time.
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SO, here's an ultimate point I've been semi-consciously trying to make to all of you for several days explaining a "southern" POV---
Imagine that I had not been polarized since 1980 in the opposite direction intended by the Reagan revolution's Big Lies and general lack of class in all things. Already alienated by the [poopy] way Jimmy Carter was treated for speaking like, and being from, Georgia -my GOD, the jokes were ugly and omnipresent for years and years right there on the news and everywhere- imagine I embraced Reagan's shabby bill of goods and got more racist instead of less.
Pretty easy to imagine me having one of those nasty Pig signs in my yard, now, instead of I haven't said the Traitor's name in public in five years. Maybe even saw me on the news last week. The bigotry feeding that, to the extent participation in Nazi Wednesday -or just echoing the Big Lie(s)- is "southern", is a real part of things. It feeds into the shabby reactionary stuff you do see "southern" folk on TV doing and saying, whether Lynyrd Skynyrd fandom, a raised finger facing North -part of the same thing, and sometimes also- actual conscious racism. It's not an excuse or anything, just, the resentment at being oppressed and insulted and treated with contempt and pointed at as the worst --- doesn't make trying to advance into modern times and be better any easier; no, it provokes profound contrarian impulses.
Like Whoopy Goldberg as a child loving Lt. Uhura there existing in the future, I wanted to be proud of MY progenitors and MY people. That's never gone away, nor ever will.
It's not a coincidence that everyone knows a good deal about the Pilgrim Fathers of Plymouth Rock and thinks Jamestown failed and went away. Nossir, Jamestown -I had an ancestor there in 1505, Thomas Harris, and misremembered the other day about Heinrick Wiedner, who was more recent- moved to nearby higher ground later, but has been a live place where people live ever since. Not hard to guess why the shift in emphasis to New England latecomers for our Founder Myth, is it?
It's everywhere. Even if you believe me about all this, you still don't see most of it, because you're soaking in it - fish don't know the water is wet. Your mother is not the one being insulted.
Uno, think about if the Mormons hadn't been allowed strong leadership when Deseret became Utah, and Bigamy Young and subsequent leaders hadn't made such a wise decision about external relations with the gentile world and projecting A Wholesome Image. You know far better than I how close LDS holds all The Murder of the Faithful as part of their Founder Story. Just imagine how it might be now.
I want to talk about Mussolini, not this, but it just. keeps. popping. up as I make my normal internet rounds. The water is wet.
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Is it the same lingering (northern) attitute towards inhabitants of states like Louisiana and Texas for instance? These two are way more economically important for America, and I assume have larger budgets to do their bidding due to the oil industry.
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THOSE are - Louisiana is its own place, and Texas is on the wrong side of the Mississippi, and they don't get entirely lumped in with us, for all of also being on the wrong side of The Late Unpleasantness...
Both are considered profoundly strange - I dunno about local equivalents of inbred hillbillies stereotype, though it's tempting to make the inbred shot at the Cajuns. Louisiana IS profoundly strange - ask Green1, if you can flag him in here. Texas is the only place I have ever been in my life that the people were EXACTly like you'd expect from TV. Screamin' insane.
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Senator Ben Sasse, (R) Nebraska, a nasty piece of work, but he is alleged to have said this:
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I like Ike.
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https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/where-does-the-south-end-and-christianity
Chucking this in here as relevant to current trend, and also something you'd know more about than carpetbagging me. Though I'm not sure you even noticed the earlier Devereaux link.
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Talking about what the American South is, I found these two podcasts about the poor white working class in the slave-owning south very interesting: https://www.farmtotaber.com/episodes/2019/2/13/23-interview-with-keri-leigh-merritt
The interviewer is Dr Sarah Taber, an agriculture journalist and crop scientist. The interviewee is Keri Leigh Merritt a historian and author of Masterless Men: Poor Whites and Slavery in the Antebellum South.
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We'll see if I find time today to click on some links...
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I haven't even finished the first of Twitter accounts I've been doomscrolling lately, and haven't even started my morning internet browse. No link-clicking now
I have initiated an attack on some long-term problems I perceive with this forum, mostly me running it alone slowly figuring out why Owners in the Greater Civ Community burn out. I asked sisko and the other admins for help. We'll see.
Still don't know where the day went..
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Where, BTW, was the census this year? I don't do the mail around here, so that's probably that, but I do not recall any years ending in zero of the 40-some years I do recall pretty clearly where it wasn't on the news a lot and usually someone showed up at the house to pester us. Did Momma just fill out the form and I never knew this time? I remember hearing the word census about once all year, and not what or why. I interviewed, and wrote an article about, the regional census chief in 1990.
Crap's important, actually.
-Off to bed.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't delayed because of the pandemic.
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Their site says that they've collected all the responses. They adjusted their plan slightly to give themselves more time, but still finished in 2020, apparently: https://2020census.gov/en/news-events/operational-adjustments-covid-19.html
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I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't delayed because of the pandemic.
Well, the Constitution. Can't really get out of it, and that's how Congress is distributed and stuff.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't delayed because of the pandemic.
Well, the Constitution. Can't really get out of it, and that's how Congress is distributed and stuff.
There's just been an election. I suppose they have 2 years to adjust population distribution for the next election?
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Dunno about details of timing.
It seems plain that most of the outrageous gerrymandering shenanigans take place every ten years subsequent to the census - and with way more than their share of the governors and state legislatures republikkan, they'll be Stepping Up efforts to rig things against a fair democratic outcome. Said efforts have already been egregious for decades.
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I note that More Putsch did not start two days ago as the FBI warned was possible. So that much good.
26 hours to go...
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If no random events trigger -never a great bet- beyond the cat's medical needs this afternoon, I've just given up on my daily routine for the moment -it's a stage I go through as I enter manic and start accreting projects- and may, tonight, get around to the old man's sons breaking sticks, Rome, Mussolini, and how those all come together.
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You should adjust your custom title: "through fair elections, I" ;)
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So let it be written; so let it be done.
Edit: done w/ a copy-paste, 'cept for capitalizing. There's an idea there for a dumb fun forum game; Write Buncle's New Custom Title.
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Random events did trigger and it's Draz' fault. The cat took a lot longer than I'd hoped, too. Useful forum business that doesn't show yet, however, has been conducted.
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I think this article by Glenn Greenwald (bigshot journalist, lawyer, activist, broke the Snowden story) is a really good perspective on the dangers of what looks to be a new domestic war on terror in the USA. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-domestic-war-on-terror-is
It's easy, even over the pond in Europe, to be carried along by the massive propaganda machine of US politics and I find it refreshing that Greenwald never seems to be sucked in and consistently advocates for a truly liberal platform (I think he is a libertarian socialist), and against both ruling-class parties.
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Liberals Screaming on Twitter swear up and down that he is basically at least fash-curious. I've seen a lot quoted that sounded very bad...
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I haven't personally seen anything awful from him, and I think it's pretty unlikely given that his husband is a socialist politician. I think lots of people get upset with him because he is a very big fan of free speech and because he hates the Democrats almost as much as he hates the Republicans.
More recently, people got upset with him because he kept pointing out the flimsiness of the Russia conspiracies, but I think he's right there, too.
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I do not just trust the LSoTs, and simply do not know enough for myself to want to defend that hill.
I do not, though, hate the Democrats NEARLY as much, and that there's some of that freakin' bothsidesism that's undermining decency and civilization by normalizing Big Lies and actual Fascism you may have heard about going on. There is simply no comparison. Keith Obberman used to call it 'false moral equivalency' before both-sides caught on - the former being even more on the nose/apt, if not as pithy.
-Posted from the https, and let's see if it's marked unread or I can go strait to bed.
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Somebody had to post that he's gone in 45 minutes.
You realize we sorta don't HAVE a president for a few minutes between noon and however long the oaths take?
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God Bless America.
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Somebody had to post that he's gone in 45 minutes.
You realize we sorta don't HAVE a president for a few minutes between noon and however long the oaths take?
Do you mean to say there's a lull in responsability to handle the contents of the nuclear football? :o
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I don't know if I'm wrong about past times, but the President was sworn in well before noon. My mistake.
He still wasn't actually legally president until Noon. Constitution.
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It figures.
Well, the deed is done. Best of luck with the present one.
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God Bless America.
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I think Biden is just another representative for the ruling classes and government establishment. I think he will undo only the most blatant injustices added by [Sleezebag] and do very little about the long-standing issues, but I would love to be proven wrong and see him adopt more of Bernie's platform.
Without that, the USA will almost certainly remain a disgrace in terms of greenhouse gas emissions per capita, criminal justice, and economic equality. For climate, especially, there is very little time left in which to change path. The pussyfooting gradualism and empty rhetoric of the Obama era won't be enough to achieve anything of note there.
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I think Biden is just another representative for the ruling classes and government establishment. I think he will undo only the most blatant injustices added by [Sleezebag] and do very little about the long-standing issues, but I would love to be proven wrong and see him adopt more of Bernie's platform.
Without that, the USA will almost certainly remain a disgrace in terms of greenhouse gas emissions per capita, criminal justice, and economic equality. For climate, especially, there is very little time left in which to change path. The pussyfooting gradualism and empty rhetoric of the Obama era won't be enough to achieve anything of note there.
Strong agreement.
Biden did impress as President-Elect. Looks like he's done that thing politicians do his whole career, being pragmatic hoping to be his best Biden when he Reached The Top. Difference being, I don't know of one compromising for decades w/o losing the plot - and various appointments and plans announced look like maybe he did keep the plot.
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So there was an old man, rather well-off, with 13 strapping sons who fought each other endlessly. Just eternally competitive and greedy towards each other, and it got mighty rough/mean/ugly.
So, finding himself on his deathbed and anticipating what those young men would do to each over his estate, he summoned the lot to bedside.
Handing each a three foot wooden dowel about pinky finger thickness, he bade each break his stick, which they proceeded to do, each trying to top the last in the ease of destruction.
Whereupon the old father produced the same number of sticks tied tight in a neat bundle, and asked his belligerent progeny to, in turn, break that, which, puffing and straining, none of the red-faced 13 strapping men could manage.
"Each of you is a stick, easily broken," Father said. "But bound all together in fraternal amity, nothing can prevail against all of you."
---
I think that's a Roman story -I do not recall for sure- 'cause it fits so well with the upcoming about the heralds of the Roman magistrates. Do jump in if you see where this is going...
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And they call those bundles of sticks fasces, from which a famous Italian named a political movement.
They said that we must all be united to be strong, which might sound fair enough, but has some unpleasant corollaries.
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Unity of purpose is nice, as long as the purpose is a noble one.
Domination through force is all but noble.
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Oh. Both correct, of course, but jumping ahead to Moose, as far as the heralds.
-For those who came in late, the game is trying to look at groups/movements/whatev pretty universally considered fascist, and usefully defining fascism. Fine to ignore me going into some details of origin, and compare/contrast fascist movements, looking for what all hold in common. Indulge me with laying off googling at first - I want your own thinking, not someone else's. We're trying to come up with our own definition.
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Seen on Facebook, not yet read:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy-oath-keeper-arrest-capitol-riot/2021/01/19/fb84877a-5a4f-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html
“In charging papers, the FBI said that during the Capitol riot, Caldwell received Facebook messages from unspecified senders updating him of the location of lawmakers. When he posted a one-word message, “Inside,” he received exhortations and directions describing tunnels, doors and hallways, the FBI said.
"Some messages, according to the FBI, included, “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down,” and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.” Another message read: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas,” the FBI added.”
-Sounds like someone in our national legislature -possibly just police- is totally going to prison forever/at least done for politics once named. This is active knowing participation in a murdery/kidnappy plot where felony murder rule murders happened.
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Lunch conversation: we're still, when it comes to mind, feeling elation to have an Actual President. This is not to say that Joe is even good; he may be great, but it's WONderful just to have an Actual President wearing his Big Boy Pants and trying to do the job at all.
(The previous is effectively, and actually morally, a mass-murderer who killed Mary Ann, and I'm not exaggerating much. I think I'll put its name back in the swear filter now that it's over. Seriously, y'all log your protests early and often, or I'll do it soon.)
Mom saw an editorial cartoon in the paper: normal folk walking around a normal street on a 'normal' day - all a foot off the ground.
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So, and this part is not real interesting, but it's there in the origin story of Mussolini's 'creation' of fascism - the Romans had tiers of elected political offices that, for the sort of powers they held, were what we'd call executive offices even at lower levels. Magistracies, the Romans called them; they were actual judges, like in court, among other duties. That's all the political ranks outside senator you'd have heard of, clear up to Consul. Not sure how Tribunes fit into all that, mind.
And, not unlike a judge now, there was some ceremony when a Magistrate was working in public, or at least out being seen - imagine if the Bailiff preceded His Honor into Court holding aloft, instead of a gavel, a sort of scepter. The Roman version was a -get this- bundle of tight-bound sticks (I believe explicitly symbolizing strength in unity, like the old man/sons/sticks/bundle story, bound together by the Authoritas of the State vested in the person of the Magistrate presiding) w/ a rather puny little ax blade at the top. Symbolism to that, too, seems obvious; the Magistrates held power of life and death, like literally on the Roman label.
This scepter-ax-thing was called the Fasces.
So, Mussolini hardly invented fascism, exactly; more just named it. I just think the classical inspirations/symbolism -and fascists do love their symbols (and mangled history), don't they?- was worth bringing up. The Romans had much to do with the iconography and rhetoric and inspiration of the Germans, too. "Third Reich" was a direct reference, Holy Roman being the Second Reich and the actual Romans the First in that...
[Edit: added one dropped word in the first sentence. And corrected an autocorrect error of 'Magistrates'.]
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You can also see this Roman inspiration in the beliefs of the elites of the antebellum South, as featured and discussed in the podcast I linked a few pages back.
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See, as I pointed out about the US Founding Fathers, used to be -up to roughly 80 years ago, I think- educated men knew Latin and the Classics; like, as in the Romans. -So pointing out Roman influence, knowing about that stuff yourself, is a key to understanding much in history long after the Empire, not all so long ago for us.
Was the Confederacy (proto)fascist? Maybe not, being fundamentally decentralized in government structure. But there are surely good counter arguments in other areas, and I tend to think you have to classify much American fascism as a different kind from the other obvious examples, or it just plain bucks Moose's first/central principal...
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-Nobody's said anything, so putting back the Traitor's name as smilie code is on today's to-do list.
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I'm Actually Surprised Uno saw that and didn't speak up.
Smilie coding in progress...
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Don't look at me for commenting on CSA parallels with fascism. US history isn't exactly my strongest suite.
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Well, [Sleezebag] no more, thank goodness.
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There was a pic in the newspaper today, with a procession of Congressmen&women on their way to the Senate, for delivering impeachment papers.
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I saw the (same?) parade, moving, on the news just now.
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Looks like its already stillborn.
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Eh, maybe. It's not only in the Republican's' best interest to get the guy out of their hair - it could be spun into good politics/damage control easily. It's the smart play.
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I mean, if 45 republican senators already vote its essentially unconstitutionally, what are the chances they'll vote for impeachment after the ninth next month?
Perhaps they'll ask the finishing of the Wall in return?
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Perhaps they can ask for not-political war/destruction in return. They're in a bad spot. Nazi Wednesday was a political embarrassment to the sane ones. The last five years have been.
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Gentle reminder that [Sleezebag] got more votes in the last election than he did in 2016. Thinking that he or his style is a liability for Republicans may be wishful thinking.
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A little :stickpoke: to point out that Biden (not fair, he doesn't have a smilie) got way more votes then even former president Obama.
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I might could do a Biden, maybe Bakrama, too. Talk me into it.
Gentle reminder that [Sleezebag] got more votes in the last election than he did in 2016. Thinking that he or his style is a liability for Republicans may be wishful thinking.
They wish Nazi Wednesday hadn't happened, which it hadn't 3 Nov. last year.
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Well, Nazi Month is finally over, and will never be missed,
except by Nazis. Good riddance.
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Rather than address and clarify the previous posts at this time, I am simply here to announce that top rated FOX Business prime time host and [Sleezebag] enthusiast Lou Dobbs has lost his job. "Coincidently" FOX , Dobbs, and Rudi are co-defendants in a multi-billion $ lawsuit filed this week by a voting machine company for defamation.
A cork was cracked in the Rusty household. Typos alcohol related.
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Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. ;nod
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I fired a certain spacebot back right before supper.
;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc ;danc
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This is how I feel about FOX throwing Lou Dobbs under the bus. I know I should feel bad about the misfortunes of others, but I'm too drunk to spell shcanenfreud.
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:D I do not believe Dobbs is what you'd call a good or honest man, and not one who has done good as a public figure, no, quite the opposite. I do regard this as good news.
I also tried to throw a party once called Reagan's First Christmas in Hell, but it didn't work out. I am not vengeful and prone to grudges, my goodness, no... ;nod
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I had a lot to say about Pres Ron's lack of attendance at church back in the day , unlike Carter's teaching Sunday School, or Nixon and other previous presidents attending Sunday services on local military posts. Or Nancy's devotion to an astrologist.
But in hindsight I've simply come to look at Reagan, not as a hypocrite Christian, or as a failed president, but as a Great American, largely on the basis of speeches made at the behest of Disney, another Great American. Some great rhetoric from time to time, but all hat and no cattle.
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None.
He lied claiming to be a rancher and I still don't get why ANYone swallowed it. He started Nazi Wednesday, basically.
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I mean, if 45 republican senators already vote its essentially unconstitutionally, what are the chances they'll vote for impeachment after the ninth next month?
According to Lawrence O'Donnell, the vote simply meant to table/defer the discussion on the Constitutionality of an impeachment trial for a former president.
Obviously most Republicans would prefer to avoid the trial and forget about this, one way or another, but they won't get their wish. The trial will happen. Unlike the last time, evidence will be presented. Because it will not be a secret vote, I expect [Sleezebag] will win. The evidence will continue to make it awkward/impossible for corporations to openly support Republicans. It's a bad look with consumers. Also, corporations like things stable and predictable. Insurrection doesn't fit with that.
That leaves small donations from [Sleezebag]'s multitude of minions as the alternative funding source for Republican politicians. HE holds the mailing lists. So they have to kiss the ring and get the blessing for that. BUT these [Sleezebag] voters believe that the election was stolen from [Sleezebag], and that voting, donating, and volunteering in political campaigns is therefore pointless. GOP Senators are in a lose-lose position long term.
A lot depends on Mitch McConnel. He likes being in power. [Sleezebag] cost the GOP both houses of Congress, the White House, and it's corporate sponsors. If Mitch decides to cut his losses, [Sleezebag] will lose the senate trial by exactly the amount of votes required. His senators vote as he dictates, or get cut off from campaign financing, endorsements, and lucrative committee assignments. While the US Senate used to be known as "the world's greatest deliberative body" they are now more of a 2 party parliament.
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I don't know the odds, but I think they're in [Sleezebag]'s favor.
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I guess quite a few senators would look with envy at the British House of Lords.
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He started Nazi Wednesday, basically.
Well in terms of personal experience, thinking back to the influx of people to the party after he secured the nomination..... True. That was a turning point or a starting point.
Now I'll have to contemplate if the Reaganites really stood FOR anything then, or if it was all ANTI. ANTI-Commi, tax, gov, abortion..
So far FOR prayer in school is all that comes to mind.
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I'd thought its hardly possible to let a kettle bubble for 30 years before it woul boil?
Would it even be possible for young radicals of the eighties to remain more or less low key before coming to a head now?
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The Nazis have been working from the Reagan playbook ever since. Period. Blaming the political opposition for everything, blatant obvious lies, mostly. Republicans don't much talk about personal responsibility anymore -it was a central idea for them when I was a lad- not with Rusty gone.
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Well, a number of them are going to face the fact personal responsability still counts for something when invading government buildings.
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Ah, but it makes me so sad and angry that SO many of them are still talking the Usual Crap, Blame of Others and Big Obvious Lies. They really ought to be still laying low only a month after the swastikas came out in public, just to not want to look like Nazis.
Y'all mind if I throw the politics into the politics thread?
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Good idea.
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Done.
I hope I have your kind indulgence, Geo...
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It was in fact kind of you to ask, Sir. ;lol ;clap
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It's how I roll when I'm in a decent mood...
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He started Nazi Wednesday, basically.
Well in terms of personal experience, thinking back to the influx of people to the party after he secured the nomination..... True. That was a turning point or a starting point.
Now I'll have to contemplate if the Reaganites really stood FOR anything then, or if it was all ANTI. ANTI-Commi, tax, gov, abortion..
So far FOR prayer in school is all that comes to mind.
Not FOR funding school, though.
You put a finger on what I've always thought. Those people are against all KINDS of things, but FOR almost nothing. Shabby lip-service to Jesus, maybe, that doesn't understand his teachings. At all. They are the textbook definition of -not conservative but- reactionary.
I blame Reagan for SO many crapulent things - and that's not poo-slinging. Well not just poo-slinging...
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I mean, if 45 republican senators already vote its essentially unconstitutionally, what are the chances they'll vote for impeachment after the ninth next month?
According to Lawrence O'Donnell, the vote simply meant to table/defer the discussion on the Constitutionality of an impeachment trial for a former president.
That seems to have been the case. Yesterday was officially about the constitutionality question.
All agree that the House made a clear case for trial, while [Sleezebag]'s team meandered, hurt [Sleezebag]'s cause, and suffered from contradictions in logic. The House managers declined their 30 minutes of rebuttal time, the [Sleezebag] defense was so weak and incoherent. [Sleezebag] was reportedly an 8 out of 10 on his rage scale.
In the end when the vote was taken, one more Republican flipped. Of course, the vote was really a fig leaf for an exit strategy.
Now the trial will proceed and the evidence will be presented. It's going to get awkward for the Republicans, but deservedly so.
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Well, I've seen much of today's presentation on MSNBC and listened to some coverage and analysis on FOX satellite radio. They're both pretty damning.
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I think he could probably be convicted of a felony for approximately each week he was president-elect. -And that's just the crimes he bragged about committing.
Wish anyone had the guts.
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He started Nazi Wednesday, basically.
Well in terms of personal experience, thinking back to the influx of people to the party after he secured the nomination..... True. That was a turning point or a starting point.
Now I'll have to contemplate if the Reaganites really stood FOR anything then, or if it was all ANTI. ANTI-Commi, tax, gov, abortion..
So far FOR prayer in school is all that comes to mind.
Not FOR funding school, though.
You put a finger on what I've always thought. Those people are against all KINDS of things, but FOR almost nothing. Shabby lip-service to Jesus, maybe, that doesn't understand his teachings. At all. They are the textbook definition of -not conservative but- reactionary.
I blame Reagan for SO many crapulent things - and that's not poo-slinging. Well not just poo-slinging...
I'd thought its hardly possible to let a kettle bubble for 30 years before it woul boil?
Would it even be possible for young radicals of the eighties to remain more or less low key before coming to a head now?
It was a turning point for the Republican party. A re-alignment, a new coalition. A new direction.
The GOP of Eisenhauer and Nixon had political principles, and things they wanted to achieve. Eisenhauer started the interstate highway system and curtailed spy plane flyovers with the Soviets. Nixon ( who lacked ethics) opened relations with China, ended the Viet Nam war, signed strategic arms treaties with the Soviets, started the Environmental Protection Agency and started revenue sharing with the cities.
Even though they incorporated the Dixiecrats ( a sort of segregationist bunch of former Democrats who had a party for a few years ) they did purge the John Birch Society from being office holders.
Well, my memory being fuzzy I looked them up ...
The current Wikipedia page seems to trace JB Society through Goldwater and [Sleezebag]. I had no idea. I did know that Reagan was a Goldwater Republican. Worth a look because it's relevant-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society
Anyway, I tended to see the Dixiecrat Republicans as a regional thing. They fit with Lee Atwater's big tent approach. Broaden the base of the party and we could compete, and get the 70% of the stuff we agree on passed.
BUT Reagan was a turning point in large point because he brought in Catholic Anti-abortion Democrats who had voted for Kennedy, and Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians who watched guys like Jerry Falwell on TV. People who weren't much involved in politics at the time, and it happened nationwide. Oh sure, he was an actual National Rifle Association member, and attracted Ku Klux Klan Imperial Wizard David Duke as well. I have a feeling I'm overlooking a group. This is a good point to pause.
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Pause and read at least three times.
-A genuine conservative said it, folks.
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Yeah, it's a lot to take in.
I continue to be shocked , NOT by [Sleezebag], but by the lack of personal conviction in the GOP. Where was the outrage? Why didn't they make him toe the line? Rein him in? There were so many opportunities lost.
Where did it go wrong? Reagan. He brought in the ANTIs. I keep thinking of that truism that if you don't stand for something , you'll fall for anything. The end result is [Sleezebag]. Reagan brought back those people that got repudiated with Goldwater's crushing defeat. As Reagan faded into the sunset, Roger Ailes followed on his heals with Rush Limbaugh, conservative talk radio, and then FOX news. All of which thrived on ANTI and outrage. As the years went buy, Republicans needed those outlets to get elected, and became dependent.
I guess that's fine if you're content to simply be a critic from the outside. Maybe you can help keep power in check.
But if you actually get elected you should then honor your oath of office, accept some responsibility, govern and lead.
At least the John Birch page gave me a lot of insight into self-described libertarians who mysteriously support [Sleezebag] and authoritarians like him.
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I put [Sleezebag] in the swear filter instead, as that looks a lot less stupid in a post...
Also? I suspect search engines could read our smilie code as text, and the whole point, besides I want to never hear or see that name -or face- again, is to not be part of the problem SAYing it constantly.
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He's been in the news every day since 2016. Someday soon I'll have a revelation: That I didn't give the fellow a thought for the entirety of the previous day. Then I'll know that my life is normalizing. I might have to crack a cork to commemorate the occasion.
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He was on my [poop]-list of obnoxious celebrities back in the nineties.
I been in Hell for five years.
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I'mma just drop this here.
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/2/8/22273204/legislature-nix-idea-requiring-consent-part-sex-education-curriculum
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Rumor has it that 16 Senators cut class today at the impeachment hearings. 15 were Republicans.
They are supposed to be sworn jurors. Now if those 16 were kicked out of the jury, it would only take...
100 - 16 = 84 x 2/3 = 56. So assuming one lost Democrat, it would only take one more senator to convict.
Kicking them out sounds like something Mitch McConnel would do. Well, now I've heard a lot of scholarly analysis on the matter, and maybe there's nothing much to do in that regard. Same with Cruz, Hawley and Mike Lee spending the afternoon in a strategy session with [Sleezebag]'s legal team. Yes, they were 3 of the 16. Comes down to" looks terrible, so what?"
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Rumor? Are journalists not allowed in the Congress chambers during deliberations?
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Rumor? Are journalists not allowed in the Congress chambers during deliberations?
What an excellent question! They are. But you need some background.
Back in the 1980s they began live coverage of Congress on cable tv. People watched because of the novelty of it all. They could see their senators standing up for them and making impassioned speeches.
All well and good.
The trouble was when the camera crew panned around the room and the public got to see what was really going on. Lots of those impassioned speeches were delivered to an empty, or nearly empty room. The only people there were the camera crew, the official stenographer, the acting presiding officer, and maybe the Senator whose turn it was next. These speeches were only for the official historical record, or to be used for a fund raising video, or a campaign ad. They weren't convincing other legislators. It was all a show!
Disappointing as that may have been, it gets worse. When there were actually legislators in the chamber, the tv audiences could see if their guy was at work or not. They could see who was absent, asleep or joking or rolling their eyes during a serious discussion.
Suddenly the legislators didn't get the respect and deference they felt entitled to. The people wanted their money's worth from their public servants! SO THINGS CHANGED. Cameras were forbidden from showing the room. Now their are fixed cameras focused on the lecterns, and reporters are reluctant to name absentees for fear of losing their credentials. In the long run the truth comes out with the voting records, but in the short term the public doesn't really know who's doing what.
It was confirmed that 16 were absent, but few were named.
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Ah, I see.
I asked because camera's do pan around the 'public' in at least our Chamber of Representatives. I can't remember if I ever saw a camera pan of the Senate.
But as far as I know its less a hassle here if you're absent because there's less public interest in the discussions in the chambers.
Of course, with Corona, there's a strict limit to the number of seats that may be occupied during a given time.
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57 voted guilty, 43 not guilty. Didn't meet the 2/3rds requirement to convict.
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;no
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McConnel is making what would be a principled speech condemning [Sleezebag]'s criminal behavior and explaining the Constitution doesn't apply to ex officeholders... EXCEPT that he is the man who delayed the trial until now, rather than hold it immediately while [Sleezebag] was still a sitting president.
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In short, a hypocrite. ;nod
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They will PAY for voting Nazi. ;hypocrite
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What's next? A sit-in at the RNC HQ in DC?
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Elections, that's what's next.
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Elections, that's what's next.
Star Wars never went away. Just sayin. Changed names a time or three, but never went away.
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But does it work?
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https://www.mda.mil/
https://www.mda.mil/video/FTM44PostMissionVideo2.mp4
https://www.mda.mil/video/FTM-44%20Public%20Release%20Video_20-MDA-10599_web.mp4
https://www.mda.mil/system/system.html
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But does it work?
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But does it work?
The good news is, the North-Koreans haven't put it to the test. Yet... ;nuke;
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But does it work?
The good news is, the North-Koreans haven't put it to the test. Yet... ;nuke;
Pretty much.
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But does it work?
I'd read some about this, but it was cool to see the launch video!
My sense of it is that it works in good conditions. That usually means that the defensive missiles outnumber the offensive ones. If there's another destroyer off the coast of "NK" that can engage when the missile is low and slow, if the destroyer or cruiser mid ocean can fire 2 missiles, if there's a destroyer off of the coast of the target city, if there's an Army THAD battery in the city, if there's a patriot battery in the city. A second shot improves the odds.
Conversely, if there are multiple ICBMS, if they have multiple warheads and decoys, the offensive missiles have the numerical advantage, and one warhead can ruin your day.
A mid-ocean intercept is done at/after apex, when the warhead is slower, but after it is separated enough from the booster so as not to confuse the radar guiding the impactor. It helps if the destroyer is roughly under the path of the ICBM, it offers a bigger window.
So with enough ships carrying enough missiles in the right places, it would work against a country with limited means, such as North Korea or Iran. But against Russia or China, deterrence is the only thing that works, and too many anti-missile systems is kind of destabilizing, or so I hear. It's a balancing act.
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But does it work?
If there's another destroyer off the coast of "NK" that can engage when the missile is low and slow,
:read:
AAAACtually this is the most difficult phase of an ICBM to target. So much so that it is still in theoretical future technologies according to the above website. While it IS low and slow, it is also accelerating rapidly and has the most wide range of where it could be going, so harder to predict where it will be.
if there's a destroyer off of the coast of the target city, if there's an Army THAD battery in the city, if there's a patriot battery in the city. A second shot improves the odds.
This would be the 3rd phase of an ICBM, and theoretically easy to predict where the warhead will be...but there is an incredible difficulty here in that the thing is REALLY hauling ass at this point.
Conversely, if there are multiple ICBMS, if they have multiple warheads and decoys, the offensive missiles have the numerical advantage, and one warhead can ruin your day.
A mid-ocean intercept is done at/after apex, when the warhead is slower, but after it is separated enough from the booster so as not to confuse the radar guiding the impactor. It helps if the destroyer is roughly under the path of the ICBM, it offers a bigger window.
Ah yes, the hollywood concept of how the things work, mid ocean...ICBMs essentially put up a satellite that starts dropping bombs on targets.
If you want a good primer on how it should work:
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Thanks for the clarification.
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Speaking of politics-
As much as I'd like to see Matt Gaetz prosecuted for sexual misconduct, I hope that there are prosecutions coming for the so called "Sedition Caucus"- senators Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, and Ron Johnson prominent among them. They should have been censured by now, if Impeachment is pointless.
More than ever I think they should abolish the filibuster and make DC and Puerto Rico states.
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More than ever I think they should abolish the filibuster and make DC and Puerto Rico states.
I can imagine Democrats would be quite happy to get extra potential voices in Congress, but is there a majority of Puerto Ricans eager to so to speak 'join the Union'?
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Well, we don't know, but there are semi-regular referenda in Puerto Rico on the subject. The previous two have had slim majorities in favour of becoming a US state with the most recent one in 2020 having a 55% turnout with 52.5% in favour of immediate statehood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum
A 5% margin isn't very big for such a big constitutional change, but it's probably enough given the low level of satisfaction with the status quo in Puerto Rico.
The case in Washington DC is clearer. The 2016 referendum had 86% support for statehood and a turnout of 65%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Washington,_D.C._statehood_referendum
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My sense is that the people of PR think it's time ( that's just me asking tour guides and bus drivers). However, I suspect that there's a conflict among the Democrats. A sudden change to the $15/hr minimum wage they want would wreak havoc in PR. It might put a lot of people out of work and on welfare, screwing up promises and projections based upon the existing states.
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Just noting (a touch ungraciously) that in the politics 2020 thread I predicted that [Sleezebag] would settle into a role as kingmaker as soon as it was clear he couldn't be king. This has come to pass; he's essentially trying to run the GOP from exile, and Liz Cheney is in the crosshairs for backtalk. Now, I did not anticipate 1/6, or anything like it, and in fact assumed that things would settle down more quickly; this was partly a failure to anticipate the insanity of [Sleezebag]'s followers, and partly a failure to anticipate the gross incompetence of the police. On [Sleezebag] himself, my batting average is still pretty good.
Now the GOP is chained to the mast of a sinking ship, and they unquestionably deserve it, even if I can see the cold political logic of every mistake they made along the way. I do hope they don't gut themselves so thoroughly that they can't knock out the Senate in midterms; Biden seems to have an insatiable desire for wasting money on stupid junk, and that needs containment.
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Rusty, I do believe Ron Johnson is fired again.
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How so?
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THIS time, he's kicked off YouTube for covid misinformation.
He done messed up too. many. times.
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I thought he was an avid denier for a long time now.
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He's a crook and a screwup, is what he is.
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Yes.
Sadly, my US Congressman, senile Jim "Patriot Act" Sensenbrenner finally retired, only to be replaced by a pro police Trumpster from our nulify-all-Covid-restrictions-but-don't-offer-alternatives state legislature.
So my only representation remains Senator Tammy Baldwin.
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I got Richard Burr and Thom Tillis, so crooks, thugs, and no representation at all for me.
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