Default Probe Team Morale Level

[Dio]

Do you think it would be a good idea to have probe teams start at a lower base morale level? I also find it odd that you cannot have probe teams with a morale level lower than Disciplined. This applies even when you edit or create probe teams in the Scenario Editor.

[Nexii]

Yes, or negative PROBE SEs should give negative morale levels to probe (like MORALE for military).  Although negative PROBE already has a penalty in making you more vulnerable.  Overall it's too easy to hit Elite on probes.  On this topic, how does one mod out the morale boosts from techs?  I think this was discussed before.

[Sigma]

On this topic, would it be possible to divorce Probe Morale from the MORALE SE, and instead tie it into the PROBE SE entirely?

I hit this problem when working on my faction set. It's hard to have a faction with weak Morale specialize in sapping, because that Morale weakens their Probe teams just as much as their infantry and other offensive units.

[Dio]

On this topic, would it be possible to divorce Probe Morale from the MORALE SE, and instead tie it into the PROBE SE entirely?

I hit this problem when working on my faction set. It's hard to have a faction with weak Morale specialize in sapping, because that Morale weakens their Probe teams just as much as their infantry and other offensive units.

If it is not already done, it should be possible to do so. In addition, probe teams with a morale lower than Disciplined can not pentrate security interlocks created due to previous probe tech steals at enemy bases. This suggests, as stated above by Nexii, that probe teams either had a lower starting morale level or a negative social PROBE score caused probe team morale penalities. I have already figured where the base probe team morale level is controlled and I will attempt to fit in a negative social Probe morale modifier.

[Yitzi]

Wait, MORALE affects probe teams?

So then yes, I think when I do the creche effect on morale I'll also have an option to make probe teams use the same mechanic as everything else, but replacing the MORALE with a simple +1 per PROBE (or -1 per negative PROBE), and covert ops center instead of command center/naval yard/aerospace complex.  (Unless Dio gets to it first.)

Nexii, to mod out the morale boost from techs, just look at the techs section in alphax.  There's a list of flags for techs, and one of them is for that morale boost.

[Sigma]

Wait, MORALE affects probe teams?

So then yes, I think when I do the creche effect on morale I'll also have an option to make probe teams use the same mechanic as everything else, but replacing the MORALE with a simple +1 per PROBE (or -1 per negative PROBE), and covert ops center instead of command center/naval yard/aerospace complex.  (Unless Dio gets to it first.)

Nexii, to mod out the morale boost from techs, just look at the techs section in alphax.  There's a list of flags for techs, and one of them is for that morale boost.

As I understand it, that's how it works. I haven't played the game in several months though, so anyone with more information, feel free to correct me.

[Dio]

Wait, MORALE affects probe teams?

So then yes, I think when I do the creche effect on morale I'll also have an option to make probe teams use the same mechanic as everything else, but replacing the MORALE with a simple +1 per PROBE (or -1 per negative PROBE), and covert ops center instead of command center/naval yard/aerospace complex.  (Unless Dio gets to it first.)

Nexii, to mod out the morale boost from techs, just look at the techs section in alphax.  There's a list of flags for techs, and one of them is for that morale boost.

I just tested this it and I do not think social MORALE effects Probe team morale. However, if the postive probe team morale modifier for SOCIAL PROBE is reduced, the morale level of your probe teams are adjusted according to the difference. For example, say your probe teams are commando and you have +3 PROBE because you are running Fundamentalist. Now if you stop running fundamentalist and you have +1 PROBE; then your probe teams morale will be reduced by two unless you have additional probe team morale bonuses from specific techs (for example, Polymorphic Software).

[Sigma]

Here is the question though: does having -2 MORALE or lower halve the Morale Modifier during Probe combat, or at any other point during the course of the Probe's activity?

[Dio]

Here is the question though: does having -2 MORALE or lower halve the Morale Modifier during Probe combat, or at any other point during the course of the Probe's activity?

As far as my tests have shown, no it would not. The morale of probe teams is isolated from the morale effects, both postive and negative, of military facilities and Social MORALE.

[Nexii]

Of course I should add, putting negative probe morale on probe se should probably be an alphax.txt variable somewhere.  Also thanks Yitzi.  It was a bit extreme that so many techs boosted PROBE morale.

So we have just Covert Ops Center as a probe enhancing facility (+2), and PROBE SE (up to +3) - aside from techs?

Actually I kind of feel that with +probe team morale taken off all techs, and -1/-2 applied to negative PROBE, Disciplined by default might be about right.  Though it would mean Elite would only be obtainable at Covert Ops.  (+4 would be needed for Elite, so +2 PROBE and +2 from facility).  Green might be a more sensible default since other troops start there.  So in that case, perhaps -1 morale for -1/-2 probe, and maybe give a probe morale for 1 tech only.  Something earlier than Covert Ops center, perhaps Polymorphic Software.  Or move Covert ops earlier and put the free morale from probe later in the game...1 or 2 techs instead of 5.  Would help a bit to make PROBE a more useful SE, right now it's by far the least important in the game

[Yitzi]

Of course I should add, putting negative probe morale on probe se should probably be an alphax.txt variable somewhere.  Also thanks Yitzi.  It was a bit extreme that so many techs boosted PROBE morale.

So we have just Covert Ops Center as a probe enhancing facility (+2), and PROBE SE (up to +3) - aside from techs?

Any idea if the bioenhancement center has an effect?  And should it?

Actually I kind of feel that with +probe team morale taken off all techs, and -1/-2 applied to negative PROBE, Disciplined by default might be about right.

Though it would mean Elite would only be obtainable at Covert Ops.  (+4 would be needed for Elite, so +2 PROBE and +2 from facility).  Green might be a more sensible default since other troops start there.

Although starting at Green with no boosts for tech and no effect from bioenhancement center would mean that the Data Angels couldn't get elite right out of the base without using either Fundie or Thought Control, neither of which really fits them; still, if Green is the default, someone who wants to use Disciplined as default could just give Planetary Networks the "improves probe team morale" flag.

So in that case, perhaps -1 morale for -1/-2 probe, and maybe give a probe morale for 1 tech only.  Something earlier than Covert Ops center, perhaps Polymorphic Software.  Or move Covert ops earlier and put the free morale from probe later in the game...1 or 2 techs instead of 5.  Would help a bit to make PROBE a more useful SE, right now it's by far the least important in the game

I think Polymorphic is a good place to put it if there's going to be 1 (and not Planetary Networks).

[Nexii]

I think the techs just give more success rate or some other benefit - not morale levels.  Tried with just Polymorphic flagged and it wasn't giving any morale levels.

Seems that bioenhancement and covert ops both apply (+2 levels each).  Should it?  Hard to say really.  The helpx.txt says 2 to military units, but probes aren't military.  It also gives +1 to native life.

[Sigma]

I think the techs just give more success rate or some other benefit - not morale levels.  Tried with just Polymorphic flagged and it wasn't giving any morale levels.

Seems that bioenhancement and covert ops both apply (+2 levels each).  Should it?  Hard to say really.  The helpx.txt says 2 to military units, but probes aren't military.  It also gives +1 to native life.

I don't see why it shouldn't. Bioenhancement would be able to make better spies just the same as it does better soldiers and pilots.

[Yitzi]

I think the techs just give more success rate or some other benefit - not morale levels.  Tried with just Polymorphic flagged and it wasn't giving any morale levels.

I thought they did give morale levels; what happens to starting probe team morale if you have all the techs but +0 PROBE and no covert ops center?

[Nexii]

Elite with 0 PROBE, no facilities, and all techs back to default flags.