Are you interested in seeing targeted probe team tech stealing?

[Dio]

Is anyone else interested in seeing this option enabled for probe teams? It has a lower success and survival rate than just doing a quick search, but allows you to steal any tech from the faction that you have at least one prerequisite for. In addition, the second option does not allow you to steal a faction's world map. This means you might want to first probe the faction with a quick search and then follow up with a specific target. Just be aware that low morale probe teams might not have any chance of coming back from the second option alive.

[Geo]

I'm interested in having this targeted option included, but please remind how it works now?
Is now only tech stealing allowed for those techs you have all prerequisites of?
I seem to remember (in SMACX) that I could pick techs from a list when probing for them? At least, when the "blind research" option was disabled.

[Dio]

I'm interested in having this targeted option included, but please remind how it works now?
Is now only tech stealing allowed for those techs you have all prerequisites of?
I seem to remember (in SMACX) that I could pick techs from a list when probing for them? At least, when the "blind research" option was disabled.

The second option allows you to steal any tech that the other faction has discovered for which you have at least one of the needed prerequisites. The first option acts like the standard prerevised version of probe team tech stealing which simply gave you a undiscovered technology known by the other faction at random. As with any probe operation, you can attempt to frame other factions. Screenshots of this process might help. Lastly, the standard unmodified version of the game would not give you the options shown in the first screenshot.

[ete]

More options is generally cool, but stealing tech is already extremely effective and the AI won't pick as well as me so I can't see myself using it.

[Dio]

More options is generally cool, but stealing tech is already extremely effective and the AI won't pick as well as me so I can't see myself using it.

I imagine at least a human player using Miriam might want to use it to steal specific technologies.

[ete]

mhm, it would be handy if you wanted an advantage, and more options is pretty universally positive. Would not at all object to making it an alphax variable, just not one I'd see myself using.

[Nexii]

Yea, stealing is already too easy.  But I'm not sure that precludes targeted tech steal.  I think it's a good idea although personally I'd like to see later game stealing made more difficult.  It gets rather powerful to be able to steal a 1-4k labs cost tech for 40 minerals.

That being said, I've thought on this.  I think tech steal should be relatively easy/cheap if you're more than ~5 techs behind the target.  It is a good catchup mechanism.

[Yitzi]

Yea, stealing is already too easy.  But I'm not sure that precludes targeted tech steal.  I think it's a good idea although personally I'd like to see later game stealing made more difficult.  It gets rather powerful to be able to steal a 1-4k labs cost tech for 40 minerals.

That being said, I've thought on this.  I think tech steal should be relatively easy/cheap if you're more than ~5 techs behind the target.  It is a good catchup mechanism.

I'm considering an energy cost that's roughly inversely proportional to the number of techs the target knows but you don't (more specifically, it would take the cost to your next tech discounting RESEARCH modifiers, divide by 1 plus the number of techs the target knows that you don't, then add 1/20th the target's energy, add 25% for each square the target base is away from the HQ, and adjust by your target's PROBE rating.  So tech steal can be cheap if you target the HQ, but that makes it difficult; it can also be easy by targeting an outlying base but that makes it expensive unless the target has a large tech advantage; even someone with a large tech advantage, though, can still make tech steal at outlying bases expensive by keeping a large bank.)

[Nexii]

Sounds really good for a start, the rates could be modified.  It certainly hampers the 'Trojan Horse' (as I put it) strategy of gifting an enemy a near city to steal from.   I assume the cost would only be taken off if successful?  Or would it become guaranteed success like subvert?  Something to think about - framing and/or targeted steal would be different actions than random steal.  If guaranteed then perhaps it would just be a cost modifier for targetted, and frame could be just a random chance to fail at based on PROBE

[Yitzi]

Sounds really good for a start, the rates could be modified.  It certainly hampers the 'Trojan Horse' (as I put it) strategy of gifting an enemy a near city to steal from.   I assume the cost would only be taken off if successful?  Or would it become guaranteed success like subvert?

According to Kirov, a simple tech steal (no interlock, no framing) is already an auto-success, though not an auto-probe-survival, so I think the cost would be taken off regardless.

Something to think about - framing and/or targeted steal would be different actions than random steal.  If guaranteed then perhaps it would just be a cost modifier for targetted, and frame could be just a random chance to fail at based on PROBE

I think even targeted could be just a random chance to fail; the added cost would be in that you spend the money whether you succeed or not.

[Kirov]

I think I would accept another option, provided it moved the risk two levels up, i.e. 50/50 for Elite units. Otherwise I would definitely use it and abuse it in scenarios where the AI has a much stronger initial set-up and you need to probe its techs away, but in the process you need to pirate a lot of crap like Field Modulation.

Or, alternatively, I'd welcome an option to introduce the security interlock right away to all AI bases. As it is right now, one base yields me one random tech 100% of the time, so the AI's expansion only speeds up its doom.

[Yitzi]

I think I would accept another option, provided it moved the risk two levels up, i.e. 50/50 for Elite units. Otherwise I would definitely use it and abuse it in scenarios where the AI has a much stronger initial set-up and you need to probe its techs away, but in the process you need to pirate a lot of crap like Field Modulation.

Or, alternatively, I'd welcome an option to introduce the security interlock right away to all AI bases. As it is right now, one base yields me one random tech 100% of the time, so the AI's expansion only speeds up its doom.

I think that it would go up by 1 risk level, not 2, as that's the usual random/specific distinction.

However, I am also planning to sometime add a cost to techsteal, which will increase with distance from base, so stealing from those outlying bases could become prohibitively expensive.

[Dio]

I think I would accept another option, provided it moved the risk two levels up, i.e. 50/50 for Elite units. Otherwise I would definitely use it and abuse it in scenarios where the AI has a much stronger initial set-up and you need to probe its techs away, but in the process you need to pirate a lot of crap like Field Modulation.

Or, alternatively, I'd welcome an option to introduce the security interlock right away to all AI bases. As it is right now, one base yields me one random tech 100% of the time, so the AI's expansion only speeds up its doom.

The success and survival chance for a elite probe team attempting a targeted tech steal is 50% and 50% (50%, 50%). The success and survival chance for a Displicined Probe is 50% and 0% (50%, 0%).

[Yitzi]

I think I would accept another option, provided it moved the risk two levels up, i.e. 50/50 for Elite units. Otherwise I would definitely use it and abuse it in scenarios where the AI has a much stronger initial set-up and you need to probe its techs away, but in the process you need to pirate a lot of crap like Field Modulation.

Or, alternatively, I'd welcome an option to introduce the security interlock right away to all AI bases. As it is right now, one base yields me one random tech 100% of the time, so the AI's expansion only speeds up its doom.

The success and survival chance for a elite probe team attempting a targeted tech steal is 50% and 50% (50%, 50%). The success and survival chance for a Displicined Probe is 50% and 0% (50%, 0%).

That seems strange...normally 50/0 for disciplined corresponds to 75/67 for elite.

[Dio]

I think I would accept another option, provided it moved the risk two levels up, i.e. 50/50 for Elite units. Otherwise I would definitely use it and abuse it in scenarios where the AI has a much stronger initial set-up and you need to probe its techs away, but in the process you need to pirate a lot of crap like Field Modulation.

Or, alternatively, I'd welcome an option to introduce the security interlock right away to all AI bases. As it is right now, one base yields me one random tech 100% of the time, so the AI's expansion only speeds up its doom.

The success and survival chance for a elite probe team attempting a targeted tech steal is 50% and 50% (50%, 50%). The success and survival chance for a Displicined Probe is 50% and 0% (50%, 0%).

That seems strange...normally 50/0 for disciplined corresponds to 75/67 for elite.

You are correct that the success and survival rate for the second option is 75/67 with a elite probe team for the first time that you steal tech from a base. However, assuming 0 SOCIAL PROBE, the success and survival rate for the second option with a elite probe team drops to 50, 50 and 75, 64 for the first option when you attempt to steal another tech after the first successful operation.