NeoCentauri Mod

[I)arkness Falls]

In here is the start of a mod I started a while ago, Download, test it, try it out, make changes, tell me about imbalances. I will like list the changes here, along with a download link.

Version 0.1
-Changed Values, Government and economy to be more balanced. It is now possible to go as any social value without killing your self in some way (Free market and fundamentalist especially have been changed)

-New factions, Auguston Empire, Union of Autocratic states, Empath Gathering, The Enlightenment, The league of refugee's, Shadow Order, and the Church of Technology

-Small changes to movement and bombardment (you will not notice it in game)

-Menu name changes, most notable, the change of the distribution of water from percents (50-70% eg.) to names (Pangea, continents, archimeplago) format, others are minor

-Backround music not included because of formating issue


Well, thats the first mod, here is the link, (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=131)
 have fun, and tell me what you think (please? )

[Kilkakon]

I think that you may need some advice with your government choices. Perhaps you could post them here and people can give advice?

Also people like BU can point you towards some bases and leader pics that you can use to vary your factions up.

[Yitzi]

Just my initial conclusions from looking it over:

50 minerals for harvesting a forest?  That means that formers, just by planting and then harvesting forests in tandem, can pay for themselves (including support) in a bit under 4 turns.  (2 formers cost 40, plus 8 support over 4 turns, and in those 4 turns can plant and remove a forest for 50 minerals.)  The Weather Paradigm or super formers make it even worse.

You misspelled "experienced" (for the morale value).  Not a big deal, but probably should be fixed.

The phrase is "martial law", not "marshal law".  Same pronunciation, but different spelling.

Democratic seems it'll be extremely strong; +1 energy per square is quite impressive and the downsides aren't all that bad in most cases.

The penalties for Theocratic make no sense (theocracy tends to be good at keeping people pacified and does not suffer from efficiency issues as much as autocracies do, as most people follow because they actually buy into it), but in terms of balance it might work.  (Though a clearly warmongering option like that will be trickier to use when you can't nerve staple newly conquered bases to prevent rioting.)

Capitalism is probably overpowered; without other POLICE penalties you won't actually suffer for waging war under it, and while 2 drones is nasty, +1 energy/square will more than make up for it (or, if using Democracy also, +4 energy/base will make up for it, and more than make up for it with a psych-boosting facility or trade partners).

You left the first n out of "environmentalism".  Might want to fix that.  Also, why does it have a research penalty?

Resources is also fairly powerful; I don't think you understand the power of +2 ECONOMY.  In fact, with a good number of trading partners, Resources could actually be better for your tech advancement than Research is.

For the Augeston empire (you sure you didn't mean that to be "Augustinian"?), you misspelled "PENALTY", so it probably won't work.  Also, I'm not sure if you can have two banned social engineering options, and in any case they probably won't have any effect since you renamed them in the game.  (I'm somewhat surprised it didn't cause the game to crash.)  In any case, its economic disadvantages and military advantages will probably force it to play a heavy momentum game.  (On the plus side, it'll find it fairly easy to reach elite.)

The Empath Revolution is probably fairly powerful (even for this set) due to their psi bonus, but could work...see my previous notes about using the old social engineering names and banning two of them.

The Enlightenment has a probe penalty but tries to maximize PROBE?  You sure you meant that?  They look like they'd be a lot more powerful under Democratic.  They're really fairly strong in any case, due to having really easy Golden Ages past population 3.

The Refugees seem ok...powerful for normal SMAC, but may be balanced for this set.

The Shadow Order may actually be underpowered for this game, though they'd be horribly overpowered in SMAC.

The techchurch seems it could get very powerful very fast by running Democracy.  The Enlightenment would still probably outpace them, though.

The UAS is fairly weak; I'm also pretty sure the bonus unit syntax is wrong and will produce either a single scout or a former.

[I)arkness Falls]

[50 minerals for harvesting a forest?  That means that formers, just by planting and then harvesting forests in tandem, can pay for themselves (including support) in a bit under 4 turns.  (2 formers cost 40, plus 8 support over 4 turns, and in those 4 turns can plant and remove a forest for 50 minerals.)  The Weather Paradigm or super formers make it even worse.]

Yeah, that is a lot, any suggestions on what it should be so that harvesting is actually a legit but not OP strategy?

[You misspelled "experienced" (for the morale value).  Not a big deal, but probably should be fixed.]

My grammar is atrocious, I'm not going to lie. Thanks.

[The phrase is "martial law", not "marshal law".  Same pronunciation, but different spelling.]

See above comment.

[Democratic seems it'll be extremely strong; +1 energy per square is quite impressive and the downsides aren't all that bad in most cases.]

Again, good point. The +2 growth was a typing error. Alot of this mod is basically that everything is OP. And since everything is OP, its all balanced. Maybe I will re-evaluate my approach on governments. I will still be keeping the nice name scheme though.   

[The penalties for Theocratic make no sense (theocracy tends to be good at keeping people pacified and does not suffer from efficiency issues as much as autocracies do, as most people follow because they actually buy into it), but in terms of balance it might work.  (Though a clearly warmongering option like that will be trickier to use when you can't nerve staple newly conquered bases to prevent rioting.)]

True. Theocracys tend to be sort of like fascism, but they don't last very long because of outside influences. Perhaps I will replace it with a facist options instead. More expiriements.

[Capitalism is probably overpowered; without other POLICE penalties you won't actually suffer for waging war under it, and while 2 drones is nasty, +1 energy/square will more than make up for it (or, if using Democracy also, +4 energy/base will make up for it, and more than make up for it with a psych-boosting facility or trade partners).]

I've seen alot, and it really takes some insanely corrupt capitalism to make people riot all the time. I would say that capitalism's weakness is planet and talent. Because people are not treasured in capitalism, you loose out on some rare talents, and also, the damage you do enviromentally will come back to haunt you. Police, not so much. The massive losses you take from planet will destroy you, even with other social choices.

Also, I never played with Free market because I felt that the +1 could be gotten easier ways without all those drones.

[You left the first n out of "environmentalism".  Might want to fix that.  Also, why does it have a research penalty?]

Bad spellings. It has a research penalty because research in general requires some environmental sacrifices, especially when it comes animals. On planet, the mind worm deaths and expirements on fungus will not score you points with planet, so if you are enviromentalist, you (must) ethically not go down some possible ave.'s of research because of your ethics.

Make sense?

[Resources is also fairly powerful; I don't think you understand the power of +2 ECONOMY.  In fact, with a good number of trading partners, Resources could actually be better for your tech advancement than Research is.]

I never understood that part of centauri very well (I probably should have). Perhaps I will tone it down, or change the bonus? 

[For the Augeston empire (you sure you didn't mean that to be "Augustinian"?), you misspelled "PENALTY", so it probably won't work.  Also, I'm not sure if you can have two banned social engineering options, and in any case they probably won't have any effect since you renamed them in the game.  (I'm somewhat surprised it didn't cause the game to crash.)  In any case, its economic disadvantages and military advantages will probably force it to play a heavy momentum game.  (On the plus side, it'll find it fairly easy to reach elite.)]

No, it is supposed to be spelled Augeston (Subject to change). MY GRAMMER IS KILLING ME.

I banned two options because of this reason. One of my complantes with SMAC was that no matter who you played as, you could always be what ever you wanted, you never really had to "pick" a fact, because the minus's of playing one could always be changed on the table and with proper development. By cutting off 2 choices, it forces you to play a certain way, and thus you pick more carefully.

And Augeston is supposed to be that way. There military is supposed to be pretty much unstopable, but there economy is always in the tank. Perhaps I will change that too. Keep the military part though.

[The Empath Revolution is probably fairly powerful (even for this set) due to their psi bonus, but could work...see my previous notes about using the old social engineering names and banning two of them.]

The Empaths BIG advantage is that PSI combat. They are basically the Gaians and the cult. I might tweak them a little.

[The Enlightenment has a probe penalty but tries to maximize PROBE?  You sure you meant that?  They look like they'd be a lot more powerful under Democratic.  They're really fairly strong in any case, due to having really easy Golden Ages past population 3.]

I suspect this has to do more with the games AI than the faction. The golden age was designed, however, I might have to through one more negative in there to balance them out. I think they use the believers old AI, which would explain that.

[The Refugees seem ok...powerful for normal SMAC, but may be balanced for this set.]

They are pretty nice, a great base faction to start with.

[The Shadow Order may actually be underpowered for this game, though they'd be horribly overpowered in SMAC.]

EVERTHING is overpowered for this game. I might have to change their penalty's.

[The techchurch seems it could get very powerful very fast by running Democracy.  The Enlightenment would still probably outpace them, though.]

Maybe an industry bonus will make them balanced. Although that is the point of the tech church. Massive expand, then they probe and research you to death. Think of them as The Cybercon, Zak and miriams love child.

[The UAS is fairly weak; I'm also pretty sure the bonus unit syntax is wrong and will produce either a single scout or a former.]

I thought they were more powerful, but that may be because I was playing them. At any rate, thanks for the critique, I will be back with Vers 0.2 based on these suggestions plus my own experimentation.

[I)arkness Falls]

I think that you may need some advice with your government choices. Perhaps you could post them here and people can give advice?

Also people like BU can point you towards some bases and leader pics that you can use to vary your factions up.

Changed Govs.

Martial Law,        None,
Autocratic,    DocLoy,  ++POLICE, +PROBE, -EFFIC, --ECONOMY
Democratic,      EthCalc, ++ECONOMY,  +GROWTH,  -SUPPORT, --PROBE
Theocratic,  Brain,   ++MORALE,  +PROBE, -POLICE, --EFFIC
Basic,          None,
Capitalism,     IndEcon, ++ECONOMY, +INDUSTRY, -POLICE, --TALENT
Socialism,         PlaNets, ++INDUSTRY,  +SUPPORT,  -PLANET , --EFFIC
Enviromentalism,           CentEmp, ++PLANET,  +EFFIC,    -GROWTH, --RESEARCH
Survival,        None,
Revenge,           MilAlg,  ++MORALE,   +SUPPORT, -TALENT, --GROWTH
Research,       Cyber,   ++RESEARCH, +TALENT,    -PROBE, --ECONOMY
Resources,          IndAuto, ++ECONOMY,  +INDUSTRY,  -MORALE, --PLANET
None,            None,
Cyberian,      DigSent, +++EFFIC,  ++PLANET, +RESEARCH, ---POLICE, --TALENT
Utopian,      Eudaim,  +++GROWTH, ++ECONOMY, +TALENT, ---MORALE, --PROBE
Orwellian, WillPow, +++POLICE, +MORALE,  ++PROBE,   ---SUPPORT, --GROWTH

[Yitzi]

Yeah, that is a lot, any suggestions on what it should be so that harvesting is actually a legit but not OP strategy?

Try 15.  It still could use playtesting, but that should be around the right area if you want plant-and-harvest to be viable.

Again, good point. The +2 growth was a typing error. Alot of this mod is basically that everything is OP. And since everything is OP, its all balanced.

Interesting approach.  So let's look at the governments with that philosophy:
-Autocratic is really not that strong.  You get decent stability and a bit of probe resistance, but nothing huge even if you're not focusing on tech (and if you are, it's downright counterproductive.)
-Democratic is still extremely strong.
-Theocratic is still not all that strong.

If you want them all to be very strong but balanced against each other, I would do something more like:
-Autocratic: -2 EFFIC, -2 ECON, +3 POLICE, +1 INDUSTRY, +2 GROWTH.  (Autocracies do not handle large groups well and suffer economically, but can easily keep people pacified and productive.)
-Democratic: As it is now.
-Theocratic: +4 MORALE, +3 PROBE, +2 SUPPORT, -2 RESEARCH.  (Great for a war footing, especially early on.)

-Capitalism: As you have it looks good.
-Socialism: Give +1 TALENT and +2 GROWTH
-Environmentalism: Increase the PLANET bonus to +5.

-Revenge: Increase the MORALE bonus to +4, the SUPPORT bonus to +3, and give +2 INDUSTRY.
-Research: Ditch the ECONOMY penalty, and give +4 EFFICIENCY.
-Resources: Looks good.

-Cyberian: Increase the RESEARCH bonus to +3, and give +3 PROBE as well.
-Utopian: Keep as it is.
-Orwellian: Give +5 to POLICE, MORALE, PROBE, and INDUSTRY, and ditch the SUPPORT penalty.

True. Theocracys tend to be sort of like fascism, but they don't last very long because of outside influences.

Iran (the best modern example) isn't very fascist-like, and seems to be lasting a while.

Perhaps I will replace it with a facist options instead.

Fascism is sort of like autocracy, though.

I've seen alot, and it really takes some insanely corrupt capitalism to make people riot all the time. I would say that capitalism's weakness is planet and talent. Because people are not treasured in capitalism, you loose out on some rare talents

Maybe you didn't realize, but -TALENT doesn't mean less talents, it means more drones.

Also, I never played with Free market because I felt that the +1 could be gotten easier ways without all those drones.

Such as?

Bad spellings. It has a research penalty because research in general requires some environmental sacrifices, especially when it comes animals. On planet, the mind worm deaths and expirements on fungus will not score you points with planet, so if you are enviromentalist, you (must) ethically not go down some possible ave.'s of research because of your ethics.

Make sense?

-2 still seems a bit much, maybe -1?

I never understood that part of centauri very well (I probably should have). Perhaps I will tone it down, or change the bonus? 

Or make everything else comparably powerful.  But I would advise that you at least read Velocyrix's guide to get a better sense of how things work before you start making such big changes.

I banned two options because of this reason. One of my complantes with SMAC was that no matter who you played as, you could always be what ever you wanted, you never really had to "pick" a fact, because the minus's of playing one could always be changed on the table and with proper development. By cutting off 2 choices, it forces you to play a certain way, and thus you pick more carefully.

I just don't know if the game will do it the way you want.

The Empaths BIG advantage is that PSI combat. They are basically the Gaians and the cult. I might tweak them a little.

It's a really big advantage, you probably should.

[Fal]

Or make everything else comparably powerful.  But I would advise that you at least read Velocyrix's guide to get a better sense of how things work before you start making such big changes.

This would be my suggestion as well.  No offense, but you don't seem to have a strong grasp on how the various SE effects are.  Economy is extremely powerful, which is why in the baseline game you can only get +3 max (ignoring Future Society options) and pay a ton of penalties to do so, and even then it's the standard way of playing for factions that can do it.  Same with Industry, the most you can get is +2.  Be very cautious handing out Econ and Industry bonuses, or give them harsh penalties and increase the size of other bonuses to compensate.

[I)arkness Falls]

I don't play that much.

[I)arkness Falls]

Yes, I am still active.

And Yes, this mod will be worked on and finished. I'm going to give you guys a good one.