Thinking about Pirates

[bvanevery]

Details into the action

into the action

MY 2262.  I guess I don't need to pillage coastal thermal boreholes.  The sea is going to do it for me.  Also if I just had some more armored ships, I could shell them.  The problem is, my Robotic Assembly Plants really aren't done yet.  I'm not ready to go to Power, as I need all that existing infrastructure completed.  I figure it's enough that it's not a cakewalk to possess my units.

Details hit and run

hit and run

I use various Transports to bring my tank back to Storm's Lee.  Another hindrance is my Command Center and Skunkworks is on the east side of my small empire.  It has not had its production upgraded to Robotic Assembly Plant, and I keep needing to make prototypes of stuff.  The reality is I'm not a land power.  I'm not even an amphibious power.  I was supposed to be, by now, but the realities of competing with this huge Hive productivity, have gotten in the way.

Details Yang cannibal

Yang cannibal

I notice Yang has a lot of cities that are Stockpiling Energy, including ones closest to me.  He has brought down his bleed rate considerably, but it's clear that financially, he's hurting.

[bvanevery]

Details I am doing well

I am doing well

MY 2263.  Normally I dread this sort of thing, but today I am the Pirates!  I've already created plenty of Mining Platforms, which is the key to surviving an apocalyptic deluge.  And this isn't even that, yet.  Everyone else can sink.  All I have to do is tidy up some Ocean Shelf as the land disappears.

Details die crawler scum!

die crawler scum!

A Marine would actually be the more appropriate way to do this, at least on the coast, but this is the weapons platform I designed.  This borehole won't be sinking soon, so I intended to pillage it.

Details good as dead

good as dead

I forgot the advantage of high movement, as well as disengagement.  Both of which might enable me to tear up a lot of stuff, and not take anywhere near as much damage sitting next to bases.  Of course, disengagement requires an avenue of retreat, and I often won't have that on a coast.  Ok Yang, what are you going to do about this new threat?  I haven't cranked up the PROBE bonus yet, so you can still try to buy it if you're bold.

[bvanevery]

Details anesthnetized

anesthnetized

The Hive didn't make any move against my hovertank, which was pretty much the idea.  I killed a Former but it got dinged up doing that.  I brought it back to base, completely forgetting to run a probe team mission while using my Transport.  The Hive just started on the Cloning Vats, so there's tech to steal.  I'm foggy headed, had a beer, and it's nearly time for dinner.  It's kinda hard to concentrate on all the details of this game when you're dealing with real life.

[bvanevery]

Details this is what beer buys you

this is what beer buys you

MY 2265.  "Why am I not using this extremely convenient foil probe team instead of the tedious hovertank routine?"  Because it will DIE you dimwit!  I can't remember everything about the game when I keep getting interrupted by sessions.  This has a lot to do with why I usually prefer to play the game almost entirely in 1 sitting.  Not practical when doing an After Action Report though.  Everything takes twice as long because of the typing, and the typing is its own distraction from the flow of the game as well.

Details I'm incompetent

I'm incompetent

And because of that fiasco, I almost forgot to run the hovertank probe team mission I was perfectly capable of running.  And I did forget that I already went after this base, the very nearest base.  I need FOOD.  Well I got back in my boat and went to a different sea base.

[bvanevery]

Details channel

channel

MY 2266.  My 1 hovertank probe team died.  I've been making lots of Command Centers, so ground units are coming.  However the nature of the game is now changing.  I really didn't think about "drown 'em" as an explicit strategy, but it's starting to look that way.  Hang on until all that nice Thinker infrastructure, simply gets wiped out?  This is some pretty major flooding.  There used to be a continent joining the halves of Yang's empire.  Now the possibility of taking him apart piece by piece is emerging.

Details Morganic power play

Morganic power play

Morgan just seized the Empath Guild, possibly putting him in position to become the Governor instead of Lal.  Checking the votes.  Lal's down to 58, heh!  Morgan's suddenly got 778.  Yang's only got 673.  Let's do this.  I don't know how long Morgan will be able to hold the base.

Details my man Morgan!

my man Morgan!

That wasn't hard, at the moment.  Well that's 20 years of advantage for our side.  Assuming he even stays on my side.  I just remembered I shouldn't talk to him.  Even though we're both Green, he's gonna be in a snit about it.

Details dammit Morgan what you good for

dammit Morgan what you good for

I thought I'd try anyways.  Totally forgot that I've got Domai in my pocket.  Doesn't matter as Morgan would veto.  I'm not paying him to make that move.  And he can jolly well propose a Global Trade Pact himself.  At least Lal won't be able to veto that anymore.

Details look at that

look at that

UN Information Agency, home of the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm, has sunk.  It's feasible to take it by naval force.  It's a long way to get there, and I'd need "real ships" to do it, but it's possible.

Details so sad

so sad

The Manifold Nexus is gone.  Industry did what I could not.  I'm not even sure it was my industry.  I'm Green at the moment.

[bvanevery]

Details doomsday

doomsday

Yang has a cluster of 3 Fusion Planet Busters that will take 2, 3, and 5 turns to complete.  I sure hope he's planning on lobbing them at someone else.  They're way too far away for me to do anything about them.

Details sea weapon

sea weapon

I design a new kind of long range assault ship that I hope is good for taking the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm.  It's expensive.  I'm going to need a bunch of them, as there's a lot of territory between here and there.

Details overpowered air strikes

overpowered air strikes

While contemplating what to build in my capitol, I remember that I've got an Aerospace Complex there.  And that I'm no longer limited to "weak" planes, or barely keeping 1 unit in the field per city.  Soporific Gas Pods were a really bad addition to the game, that in my own modding work, are "soft retired" until very late game.  The idea being, by the time you get them, you'll have already won the game by other means.  So in the real world, you'll never use them unless you're sandboxing.

Well in Thinker, since it's almost policy not to interfere with the mechanics of the original game, I'm happy to demonstrate why Soporific Gas Pods shouldn't be in the game.  Yang is still into Power, and this is gonna knock that silly.

I'm getting that food now.

[bvanevery]

Details so that's how you get Genejack Factories

so that's how you get Genejack Factories

MY 2267.  Aki suddenly speaks and wants to trade.  I haven't played with a vanilla tech tree in so long, that I forgot where Genejack Factories were.  In my modding, they're part of the Build tech tree.  I can't remember what part of WTP they're in, but they come early and are easy to obtain.  I think I'm good with all my citizens being happier though.  Ask me again if this was a mistake, as the world floods and I try to send out those expensive ships.

Details hammered

hammered

Also, uh, I'm getting hammered by Isles and Locusts as is.  Aside from wiping out some ships at my base and leaving my peon backup garrisons barely alive, there's another pop invisible in that fungus to the southwest.  I guess it's only global warming / flooding that is nerfed in Thinker.  Fungal pops seem to be coming just as fast as I generally remember in other games / mods.  The pattern in vanilla and my mod is 6 pops = 1 more level of ocean rising.  Wonder when this stuff will calm down?  I mean, I'm Green.

Details shard me up

shard me up

An Air Superiority Shard Rotor can knock off formers and supply crawlers, and has the advantage of returning to base, but it doesn't have much range.

Details trick car

trick car

There's a budding fungal tower near one of my bases that I need gone.  Maybe I'll find some other use for it.  Maybe it'll just sail around on a boat, blasting fungal towers and making money.

Details funny boat

funny boat

I'm Green... I built the Xenoempathy Dome... I've got Biology Labs in every base... maybe I should see if Isles can do me good.  I'd prefer Sealurks, but I don't know how to do those.  Also, I don't know if Thinker fixes the 'bug' where Sealurks get stuck on fungus.  Well, that wouldn't matter because I have the Xenoempathy Dome.  Other thing is, I made Sealurks faster, and I don't think vanilla rules do.  The one thing Sealurks can do better, is attack the coast.

[bvanevery]

Details limited opportunity

limited opportunity

MY 2268.  Sunspots are the traditional time to commit atrocities.  However I don't think it's wise to make a Planet Buster armed opponent want to commit reprisals.  In fact I'm really hoping those nukes go off somewhere else in short order.  The duration of sunspots also tends to be about 20 years, which is not enough time to start building X weapons and launch a vigorous campaign against such a large enemy.  That said... genetic warfare offers other possibilities.  I must think about this.

One thing is certain: I can't do anything until either the nukes are expended or eliminated.

[bvanevery]

Details cheesing the defense

cheesing the defense

So that's why Thinker is sitting around with only probe teams in the cities.  It's aware of the probe team armor exploit.  Jack up your team to Elite somehow, don't really have to do anything with MORALE bonuses.  They'll defend just fine, long as only probe teams are available for defense.  Guess I'll have to find something else to shoot at.  Pretty sure the Interceptor in the area is too wounded to go out, knock on wood.  I divert to a crawler and blow it up.

Details local assault

local assault

I think it's time to start trashing Yang's coast.  I hope it doesn't draw attention before the nukes are launched.

[bvanevery]

Details oh no

oh no

MY 2269.  If that's my capitol, I'm resigning this game.  Even if it isn't, there's 2 more nukes to go.

Details that's all folks

that's all folks

Well that's depressing.  An awful lot of hand crafted game time, to be nuked by a tyrant who clearly doesn't care.

I honestly never really thought about Planet Busters as the way this could end.  I thought mainly in terms of ongoing conventional warfare.  Which, frankly, I didn't expect the AI to be all that good at.  And I still don't think it actually is, based on the few clashes we actually had.  But if you've got a super budget for nukes, and plenty of stuff to give you defense in depth while you build them, then what does it matter?  All the tactics in the world, won't stand up to a lot of nukes.

I guess despite sea minerals being "good", it took me too long to build up my stuff, and gave the AI too much time to stomp everything.

I just did a postmortem survey of everyone's governments.  Nobody's Free Market, so I think I was the faction driving the eco-damage.  In that sense, I did a really good job!  I mean I'm Green and I'm still getting fungal pops.  The world's sinking.  Probably I cut Yang's empire in half.  Good situation for Pirates, even if it wasn't planned.  Maybe I should have stepped on it with the sea minerals and factories a lot sooner. Instead of the "Tidal Harnesses and buy stuff" approach.

Hm.  Well I can either try again, or forget about it.  Not sure how I feel about it.

I definitely don't like hand-crafted empires getting nuked.  I don't like them getting flooded out either.  That's why in other mods, I'm so squeamish about eco-damage.  They undo all my careful work.  Even if the seas don't rise very much, the shifting river systems trash all my careful rails work.  I hate that.  I might try to rebuild for a bit, but after awhile, that gets old.  If I haven't won by then, then I don't want to play anymore.  Because to some extent it's a builder game, and those floods turn the building into a complete waste of time.  Unless of course you gained something amazing for all that careful rails work, but usually you don't.

I'm also totally unwilling to play this game "like I'm the AI".  Unlike the AI, I get bored.  Not just gonna push colonies and make new cities endlessly.  I already went through that kind of "personal values check" with WTP.  It ain't gonna happen.  This game, I built the size of empire that I'm willing to build.  It's plenty of mouseclicks just to do that.  It takes plenty of real world wall clock time; granted, even longer doing a writeup of it.

Well if I've learned one thing from Thinker, it's that I must have a "nuke intervention plan".  Without that, you're dead.

Another thing I found disturbing about the Pirates in Thinker, is I found it just about impossible to project force.  I'm not clear to what degree this was my choices and my presumption of time (which I didn't actually have), or the Huge map being just ridiculous to get through, when there's Thinker level empire spawning going on.

Like, let's say Yang hadn't been my next door neighbor, but had been as far away as the Cyborgs.  How the hell would I have ever have even got to him, before he starts spewing nukes?  Now, maybe being far away, he would have hit someone else with them.  But that sounds like a really bad situation.  How would one ever hope to intervene, in the Thinker powered empire that's diagonally farthest away on the map?  That's usually the strongest opposition to the human player, because they have the least logistical ability to affect it, for a very long time.

Gosh it's sounding like if you're gonna be Pirates, you've gotta sink the world a helluva lot faster.  'Cuz you ain't building a mag tube to your enemy.

[bvanevery]

Details the rematch

the rematch

Having contemplated all of this, I decided to try again.  This time with more deliberation about various "things".  The random opponents were shockingly similar to the previous game, with only the Spartans replacing the Peacekeepers.  And much to my dismay, I got Yang as my neighbor again.

This time, however, I am determined to kill him in his crib.  Not just because of the monstrous amount of growth he's capable of, and my soreness at having been nuked last time.  But because we're ideologically incompatible.  My faction penalties obligate me towards EFFIC and GROWTH.  The only thing that really provides that early on, is Democratic.  I intend to embrace it sooner rather than later.  I'm already capable now, but I will finish settling my bases.

My starting strategy was much more "loose", and that was partly driven by the map I was given.  My 2nd sea colony pod, I sort of wandered off with.  I knew from other Pirate games that splitting up the founding colonies isn't a good strategy, but the compulsions of exploration caused me to somewhat do it anyways.  A patch of Monsoon-like jungle was in the other direction, as well as Yang.  So I resolved pretty quickly that that would be my new center of empire.  I was really irritated when he out-colonized part of it, forcing me to do heroic measures leveling some Rocky terrain.

I didn't pursue any particular research strategy.  Tech largesse in the last game, taught me that worrying about filling out my faction abilities was probably misguided.  Time enough to change to Build if I really feel the need later.  I stuck with the faction's default of Explore Conquer.  Maybe I can get my Cruisers sooner rather than later.

The main consequence of my research choice, is it took a long time to learn Social Psych.  Eventually I got it out of a supply pod.  I've spawned what I've spawned only because I couldn't make anyone happier sooner.  I had piles and piles of supply pod money to do it, and no happiness facilities I could buy.  Now I'm finally correcting all of that.

The world community is turning out very similar to last time as well.  Morgan just allied with me.  The Data Angels allied, rather much like last game early on.  I've loaned money to both of them.  I'm probably going to go Democratic Free Market fairly quickly, because I can definitely do "adjacency war" with Yang, and the +1 energy per square can let me concentrate on building only minerals at sea.  At least initially.

I don't intend to do much reportage on this game, having been pretty exhaustive in the last one.  The point is to get the game to diverge from what happened last time.  Like, the next field report is hopefully "Yang's dead".  And then I'll be asking the insightful question, how did other factions do meanwhile?  Do I have a nuke intervention plan for them?

Santiago is already at war with me, but at a bit of distance from me, and not well developed yet.  I can probably trash Yang and then deal with their situation.  Santiago is violent and I've seen her toss nukes indiscriminately at people in various games.  So, I'm reasonably willing to end her life too.

It's really not going to be the "sit back and develop" Pirates this time.  I'm not getting nuked so easily again.

[Induktio]

Hmm, it seems Yang is at least playing to the character. It's actually only vanilla AI that is using those missiles, so that worked out quite well. I was even thinking of implementing a special AI strategy for using conventional missiles, it would be useful to overcome Aerospace Complex+AAA or similar high defenses in some bases, but implementing it would require quite a bit more code. In any case, I think next version will implement some changes for tech trading and many more bug fixes. But it takes some more time.

While discussing bugs, it should be noted that I generally cannot start Thinker with the 1st click of its shortcut on my desktop.  It takes at least 2 times and often more.  It's indeterminate how many times it takes, although it will eventually succeed, probably no more than 5 clicks at the most.  I do have to Run As Administrator.  In contrast, I don't have to perform any special rituals to run WTP.  So they have apparently diverged as far as how they handle startup.

I'm going to make a guess that Thinker incorporates PRACX, which is actually buggy, and WTP does not.

So what is your exact Windows version? I think one other player reported something similar, but it has not been possible to replicate that issue on my Windows version. It would be more likely if the launcher either worked or failed, it just doesn't make much sense that it would operate "randomly" in that fashion.

Did you check the task manager if there's additional terranx.exe processes opened in the background? Maybe that might affect the startup if there's redundant processes present in the background. Also by default PRACX features are disabled in Thinker because that additional smooth_scrolling code affects performance a little too much. And it's not that necessary anyway.

[bvanevery]

Hmm, it seems Yang is at least playing to the character.

Yeah no kidding.  Makes it easier to swallow, as compared to getting nuked by Lal or Morgan.

It's actually only vanilla AI that is using those missiles, so that worked out quite well.

In various stock binary games I've seen, Miriam and Santiago are the ones I know for sure, will fire first.  Less of a track record with Yang, which might just be the incidentals of how rarely it has come up.  But I'm hardly surprised if he's in the "set" of murderers.

I was even thinking of implementing a special AI strategy for using conventional missiles, it would be useful to overcome Aerospace Complex+AAA or similar high defenses in some bases, but implementing it would require quite a bit more code.

I wouldn't make it a huge priority for you, because the Spore Launcher is the absolute supreme defender against such attacks.  If you spend a lot of time focusing Thinker on hammering with CMs, a knowledgeable human player is going to respond with many SLs.  And then they'll just game your AI into wasting its resources.

The stock binary is actually a relentless pesterer with CMs.  It is especially fond of lobbing them at bases where you have few units and an Artifact.  I hate it when it does that, to the point of save scumming games.  And with my own attempts to return CM favors, this is how I know all about SL defenders.  It's really pretty ridiculous.

Given Yang's level of production, I was actually quite surprised that nobody was throwing CMs around.  They had the capability for a long time.  I kinda breathed a sigh of relief that it didn't happen, because it's rather tedious to play against.  It's not really a problem in my mod because I made the missile chassis far more expensive.  Although, they can also hit the entire globe.  They're true ICBMs.

So what is your exact Windows version?

Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H2, OS Build 19044.1415.  14 year old laptop with Intel integrated graphics.

It would be more likely if the launcher either worked or failed, it just doesn't make much sense that it would operate "randomly" in that fashion.

Seemingly semi-random, as it will finally work within 5 tries at the most.  Although, the 1st failure is not random at all.  It always fails.  The random part, is whether it takes usually 2 or 3 tries to get going.

Did you check the task manager if there's additional terranx.exe processes opened in the background?

I didn't happen to check.  Currently as I play today, there's only terranx.exe.  I will wait until the next time I kill the game and try to remember to notice.  I think the behavior, is almost like it's required to have a stray copy, to get working.

Also it is weird to need to run it as admin, as I don't recall ever making any kind of setting to have that happen with WTP.  If I don't run as admin, it won't work at all.  I get an error dialog box about it not being able to start up.

Also by default PRACX features are disabled in Thinker because that additional smooth_scrolling code affects performance a little too much. And it's not that necessary anyway.

Can its mere presence as part of the game's code be an issue?  Like it's disabled, sure, but its code path is pestered and thereby has some side effect?

I wonder if Windows or an anti-virus is enforcing some kind of binary hack security.  I'm just using Windows Defender.

[bvanevery]

Details boa constrictor

boa constrictor

MY 2164.  I settle my last base for awhile and go Democratic.  I've coastally ringed the southern extent of his empire.  The intent of course, is to make it mine.  And I won't be shy about bringing Morgan into the war, if he doesn't bring me in first.  I've got a Particle Impactor prototype completed, but I don't actually have any troops yet and haven't finished my Command Center.  I've got Rec Commons and an untrained Trance Scout in pretty much every base.  I've got a lot of ordinary Scouts that I need to do something with, and I'll be moving them around before going Free Market.

Details the unknown void

the unknown void

I've also got 3 ships at sea, still popping pods.  The oceans I have ready access to, are almost exhausted.  There's a big chunk near my allies the Data Angels and my enemies the Spartans that I haven't explored.

Details go after her

go after her

Having put it like that, I realize I should check in with my ally to see if any of it has been explored.  Roze wanted war with Aki, which I don't want and have no interest in.  I get Roze to beg off.  Then I ask Roze to go kill Santiago, and Roze agrees.

Map-wise though, Roze knows nothing about this void.  I can even see a supply pod exposed.  If Roze can run some land interference on Santiago, then perhaps I can get some ships in there and clear it out.  I've got a fair amount of foil probe teams under construction, so playing footsie with the area has another purpose as well.

[bvanevery]

I watch thinker.exe try to start up from scratch.  I Run As Administrator from the shortcut on the desktop.  It gives me the "sure you want to run this, yes/no" security dialog box, then fails.  I check Task Manager and I see no app or process relevant to the game.  I Run As Administrator a 2nd time, go through the security dialog, and this time it succeeds.

Could it be some kind of memory allocation or resource allocation weirdness?  Like what if it's graphics related.  Maybe the driver barfs, but in the course of barfing, shuffles some things around.  So that it succeeds a 2nd or 3rd time.  Or, any other weird subsystem barfs and resets.  I am suspicious of Microsoft that way.