Unlimited modding for factions

[MercantileInterest]

Scient's open source project will allow modding of never before manipulated mechanics. In this thread, we can mull over models of existing or possible factions which incorporate new features. I'll start with the Data Angels. 

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Whereas the later forms of government on old Earth legitimized their power with appeals to the 'will of the people' or 'the will of the majority,' the Data Angels reject all forms of official coercion and, therefore, government. They have rather achieved a true anarchist society. The digital economy allows powerful techno-savvy individuals to compete with the more traditional mineral and agricultural mafias. Data Angel society is a constant flux of alliances, acquisitions and assassinations.

Faction Stats:

• Founding base is not HQ, may not build HQ, does not acquire HQ upon conquest
• Faction does not experience drone riots, instead drones may not work tiles
• Enemy factions may never in any way infiltrate the Data Angels, other probe operations will function as normal
• Rival bases within 4 tiles of Data Angel territory gain +1 drone
• -1 Support

[bvanevery]

The lore is their HQ is super secret, not non-existent.  I think if you're going to have the Data Angels be a faction with its own bases, then it doesn't make a lot of sense to dispense with HQ and radial effects.  It would be no government in name only, since they do in fact own bases.  True no government, would be existing parasitically within other faction's bases.

Some precedent for that kind of play mechanic exists in Emperor of the Fading Suns.  The Regent assigns control of the Fleet, the Eye, and the Stigmata Garrison to 3 of the Houses.  The Eye is a spy organization inside of everyone else's empire, a chunk of units they're not allowed to touch unless they want to start open war.  Well, maybe that's only on the ruling planet.  But the idea isn't far off, of units in your cities you can't do anything with.

Faction does not experience drone riots, instead drones may not work tiles

A Medic already doesn't work a tile.  This is like a Medic that doesn't provide any benefit, and consumes food.  Not sure that's positive.

Personally I think all the citizen specializations should probably go away.  I refrain from that in my mod, only out of a desire to keep things mostly like a SMAC player would expect.

The Chopper chassis was too egregious though, so I got rid of it, except for my Unity Lifter unit popped from supply pods and the Unity crash site.  A single fire Chopper isn't an interesting play mechanic in the sense of newness, but it would be a nice fix to have.

The other not new thing I'd seriously like to see fixed, is an overhaul of the egregiously cheap mind controlling of cities.  It's so broken.

[Nexii]

No HQ is a pretty steep penalty for energy loss. I'd probably give them some more strong pluses. If we're talking new features I felt that them having enhanced probe actions might be interesting. Like doubling what they can steal (techs/credits), doubling drone dissent, facility destruction etc. Maybe even a few probe actions that other factions never get. I couldn't come up with a lot, though gaining vision of all enemy units might be an interesting one. Or maybe their probing actions hit nearby bases too (the whole faction might be a little OP)

Copters are mostly better because they don't take a whole turn to return to base. Smashing large stacks of units doesn't really tend to happen with cheaper infantry/armor costs. What I did was swapped their chassis tech with hovertanks (or somewhere around there). By the time hovertanks come out they're kinda useless compared to air+drop infantry. A bit of a range nerf makes them more distinct from needlejets, but I do prefer to keep them in the game. When you think about it from a lore perspective, it's kind of silly that tanks are harder to make than aircraft.

I don't know, probing should remain strong. One thing I like about SMAC is that you have multiple ways to war, probe, native life, traditional army. And within that you have to decide been ground/air/sea. Only problem in the base game was they made air too good vs everything (mostly too low costed), and native life too bad vs everything (too expensive, hosed out hard by early dual emp/trance)

[bvanevery]

They're hovertanks though, not tanks.  A conventional tank would just be an armored Speeder.

For me, the reform of probe teams is non-negotiable.  It's the thing that can still cause me to rage quit a game.  Last time that happened, I jacked up the cost to double the normal game.

Mindworms aren't weak in my mod, not really my problem.  If anything they're now overpowered.

[MercantileInterest]

The Nautilus Pirates. Always thought it a little unrealistic that they start on the sea. 

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Nomadic and independently minded, the Nautilus Pirates prefer the freedom of naval movement over the confinement of land. The upper class of their society consists of 'captains,' a ship at sea after, all being it's own world, with the captain holding all the duties and privileges of a prince or minister. Any ambitious Pirate will strive to achieve the captaincy or, better still, the admiralty. The lower class of Pirate society consists of the base dwelling drones, often indentured.

Faction Stats:

• Placement algorithm deposits founding base on land bordering ocean, preferably an island.
• Sea bases gain +3 minerals in the base square.
• Foils are available at half price.
• -1 effic
• -1 growth

[bvanevery]

Foils are available at half price.

No, don't do this.  I went through a cheaper foils phase in my mod, so I know what the naval combat dynamics turn into.  You get big fleets with lotsa units pushed around, rapid takeover of bases, and equally rapid loss of bases.  It's spam warfare.  Making them half cost instead of reduced cost is crazy.    I eventually restored them to normal cost, but increased their speed to 5, because my mod is designed for Huge maps.  Cruisers, Needlejets, and Gravships similarly got small upwards movement adjustments.  AFAIAC my final results are "provably correct" after 2 years of playtesting, at least for single player.

Also, when you make half price of anything, you blow the dynamic range off of combat stuff.  It is not generally possible to keep combat constrained within a meaningful range if you do this sort of thing.  Without any binary patching at all, I've worked pretty hard to make weapons, armors, and chasses be a real challenge to produce, to actually cost something instead of being trivialities or awards.  You can't have a cheap unarmored infantry gun anymore, those sorts of units cost a lot of minerals, in proportion to the power of their guns.

The main fly in my balancing ointment is indigenous lifeforms.  I'm not happy that they're ruining the careful discipline of the weapons and armors regime.  It seems like a rational player would almost never bother with conventional weapons and armor.  Even the AI recognizes this to some degree and builds lotsa mindworms and spore launchers in the late game, albeit usually pathetically small ones.

[MercantileInterest]

Spam warfare is fine for a single faction. Also leads the Pirates to prefer foils over cruisers, which would make a nice contrast with the others.

[Nexii]

The thing about -50% production is that it's pretty much like giving +5 industry in the early game. When all production is going into foil colony pods and foil formers

I mean you could balance around it but the factions would require a very high power level on the whole

[MercantileInterest]

Here's the line for foils in the txt:

Foil,M1,      Skimship,M1,   Hoverboat,M1,   Frigate,M1,   5, 1, 0, 0, 3, 4, Mobile,

The cost is four. Other factors (armor, weapons, etc.) will increase this. When I say 'half,' I mean reducing the value in this line to 2 for the Pirates. A little sketchy on how the cost formula works (think I'm running an alternate Yitzi patch version) but don't believe this translates into a 50% discount on all foil models.

[Nexii]

It does apply to all models. There isn't a code that allows for a different pricing formula on combat and non-combat units.

[MercantileInterest]

Nah, man, I'm saying that changing the txt value of '4' to '2' doesn't mean that all foil units will be 50% cheaper than they would have been. Not saying anything about combat units versus non-combat units.

Here's the unit cost formula given in the wiki: Cost = Weapon * (Armor + Speed) * 10 / (2 (Reactor + 1))

However, this doesn't incorporate the chassis cost given in the txt. Any idea how that fits in?

[bvanevery]

When I say 'half,' I mean reducing the value in this line to 2 for the Pirates.

And I'm telling you, you're nuts.  I've done 3.  Perhaps you're going to have to discover how lousy this is for yourself.

Also you should note, when making these kinds of decisions.  Empirically, armor is very cheap for ships.

[Nexii]

Nah, man, I'm saying that changing the txt value of '4' to '2' doesn't mean that all foil units will be 50% cheaper than they would have been. Not saying anything about combat units versus non-combat units.

Here's the unit cost formula given in the wiki: Cost = Weapon * (Armor + Speed) * 10 / (2 (Reactor + 1))

However, this doesn't incorporate the chassis cost given in the txt. Any idea how that fits in?

The formula really should say "Chassis Cost" instead of "Speed". By default all speeds = chassis cost so technically it's not wrong

[MercantileInterest]

Thanks!