Centrist Authoritarianism

[Elok]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/opinion/international-world/centrists-democracy.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&assetType=opinion
For those close to or over the edge of the NYT paywall, author dug through survey data from the US and Europe circa 2010, found that individuals who identified as centrist were less likely than those who identified as partisan (in either direction) to say democracy is very good, or that free and fair elections or civil rights are central or essential features of democracy.  They endorsed the idea that a good leader doesn't need a legislature more than self-identified leftists, but less than self-identified right-wingers.  Except in the US; our "centrists" like authoritarians even more than our right wing.
There are a couple of directions you can take this.  I suspect part of it is that extremists are unlikely to think of themselves as extreme, due to a Dunning-Kruger-like effect.  Part of it may also be that "centrist" can mean "person disgusted with politics in general, who thus dislikes all parties and refuses to identify with them."  It may also reflect political apathy or ignorance, since not thinking free and fair elections are important to democracy strikes me less as an opinion than as a failure to understand what words mean.
Thoughts?

[Bearu]

My experience in the political arena remains the people lack the political clout, knowledge, and awareness of issues to produce a coherent set of political beliefs beyond the general modification of the traditional beliefs in the country without the influence of an external source to ignite the engines of thought on the matter. The sole purpose of the article remains to reveal the tendency of the population to support the status quo as a bias of good features.

[Rusty Edge]

Yeah, I've hit the paywall. Thanks for considering that, Elok.

My initial reaction is that I always bridle at a Left-Right spectrum. How broad is the spectrum, does it include American, European, or Asian viewpoints? The spectrum is more like a continuum, with both extremes becoming authoritarian in order to make the dissenters comply.   I think political graphing needs two or three axis.  Enough about that.

I tend to think all of what Elok said in his second paragraph is simultaneously true. Particularly in the case of many [Sleezebag] voters who haven't voted in previous  years.

[bvanevery]

Per the survey, I certainly have trouble with the statement, "democracy is a “very good” political system".  It isn't, especially as practiced in the USA after Citizens United, with unlimited corporate campaign funds.  Democracy is just not as malfeatured as the real world alternatives!  I think this phraseology is likely to garner false signals from intellectuals who have actually thought about the healthy or unhealthy structuring of government.  Similarly, “best political system” requires context.

The other statements measured in the article though, seem to be straightforward.   Perhaps the vast majority of self-identifying "Centrists" don't have strong political opinons?  So, like, leader, yeah, whatever.

[Lorizael]

Democracy is just not as malfeatured as the real world alternatives!

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

[bvanevery]

Exactly.  I have also said to people complaining about stuff, "Democracy is getting your say, not your way."  Up to 50% of the people at any given time hate what you propose.  Why would one presume, in a highly partisan country, that one is going to be happy and satisfied with the laws that are passed?  I think the system is working if you get "some stuff" that you want, as opposed to never getting anything you want.  Which has to be literally true, and not a case of selective observation on the complainer's part.  Democracy is fundamentally a power sharing arrangement.

[Elok]

Democracy is just not as malfeatured as the real world alternatives!

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Good.  Now you just need to go to parties more, so ugly women can accuse you of being drunk.

[Lorizael]

I'll be sober in the morning. I'll be sober at the party, too, but that's not much of a punchline.

[Lorizael]

Haven't had the attention span for real conversation the last few days.

Part of it may also be that "centrist" can mean "person disgusted with politics in general, who thus dislikes all parties and refuses to identify with them."

I've definitely observed this a lot in centrists. "Both sides are evil and greedy, no one wants to compromise, ideology blinds you..." that sort of things. But how does that get you to a preference for authoritarianism?

I can imagine something like, "Everybody knows what the right thing to do is, but the parties are beholden to special interests. What we really need is someone independent and balanced to just do what needs to be done!" But I can also imagine centrists going, "... What we really need is to get special interests out of politics so that we can restore open debate and bipartisanship!"

[Elok]

I was thinking that, if you're not invested in either party, you mostly want all the bickering to end so things can get done, and the quickest way to end that is to have a bigger guy sit on the argument.

[bvanevery]

There are other options, such as the No Labels movement.  I'm not sure how much change they can actually effect.  They bug me for money all the time and I don't have any.  If I was wealthier I'd investigate them more.  As it stands, I just get blurbs from them.