Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6

[MercantileInterest]

"Actually, "infiltration ceases on next government change" would be fairly easy; the others would be somewhat harder, though."

Right then. Sounds reasonable in single player but reduces its usefulness terribly in multiplayer.

[see]

Nominated Feature #1:  An option in alphax.txt to determine which faction has the Caretaker's cannot-transcend limit, replacing the hard-coded name.

Nominated Feature #2:  Some sort of configuration section to allow users to configure facilities/special projects to grant specific "faction"-type bonuses, in order to allow modders to assign abilities to empty facilities and secret projects.  So, say, Empty Facility 42 to could be configured to give, say, "POPULATION, -1" as a sort of min-hab-complex, while Empty Secret Project 38 could be configured to give "FACILITY, 42".

[Yitzi]

Nominated Feature #1:  An option in alphax.txt to determine which faction has the Caretaker's cannot-transcend limit, replacing the hard-coded name.

Question: Would you rather have:

Approach 1: It is determined in alphax.txt which faction has the cannot-transcend rule, but it can still only be one faction per game.
Approach 2: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot transcend.  This can therefore be applied to more than one faction per game, but counts toward the limit of 8 "standard" boni/mali for the faction.
Approach 3: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot build project/facility/predesigned unit X, and/or cannot build project/facility/predesigned Y and declares vendetta against any faction that attempts to do so.  This would therefore take two bonus/malus slots for the Caretakers' "cannot transcend" (one for the Voice of Planet and one for the Ascent to Transcendence), but would be far more versatile for modding.

(Approaches 2 or 3 would probably be significantly easier than 1; 3 would only be slightly harder than 2).

Nominated Feature #2:  Some sort of configuration section to allow users to configure facilities/special projects to grant specific "faction"-type bonuses, in order to allow modders to assign abilities to empty facilities and secret projects.  So, say, Empty Facility 42 to could be configured to give, say, "POPULATION, -1" as a sort of min-hab-complex, while Empty Secret Project 38 could be configured to give "FACILITY, 42".

How many such bonuses should each facility be able to have?  (Also, be aware that FACILITY, 42 does not work exactly the same as something like the Command Nexus.)

[see]

Approach 2: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot transcend.  This can therefore be applied to more than one faction per game, but counts toward the limit of 8 "standard" boni/mali for the faction.
Approach 3: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot build project/facility/predesigned unit X, and/or cannot build project/facility/predesigned Y and declares vendetta against any faction that attempts to do so.  This would therefore take two bonus/malus slots for the Caretakers' "cannot transcend" (one for the Voice of Planet and one for the Ascent to Transcendence), but would be far more versatile for modding.

(Approaches 2 or 3 would probably be significantly easier than 1; 3 would only be slightly harder than 2).

Wow, I actually expected them to be harder than #1, which is why I phrased the way I did.  #3, then, since you think it's only slightly harder than #2.

How many such bonuses should each facility be able to have?

I'd be quite satisfied with just one.

(Also, be aware that FACILITY, 42 does not work exactly the same as something like the Command Nexus.)

Different is, IMO, good (after all, we have a bunch of Command Nexus-type projects already), but I'm not wedded to the faction bonus types and syntax so much as wanting a way to do something interesting with all those empty slots.

[Yitzi]

Approach 2: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot transcend.  This can therefore be applied to more than one faction per game, but counts toward the limit of 8 "standard" boni/mali for the faction.
Approach 3: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot build project/facility/predesigned unit X, and/or cannot build project/facility/predesigned Y and declares vendetta against any faction that attempts to do so.  This would therefore take two bonus/malus slots for the Caretakers' "cannot transcend" (one for the Voice of Planet and one for the Ascent to Transcendence), but would be far more versatile for modding.

(Approaches 2 or 3 would probably be significantly easier than 1; 3 would only be slightly harder than 2).

Wow, I actually expected them to be harder than #1, which is why I phrased the way I did.  #3, then, since you think it's only slightly harder than #2.

One of the major rules about .exe modding is that the hardest thing is adding room for new data.  So having a special entry for "faction that can't ascend" is harder than saying "these 8 slots that we have anyway can now have a new value".  The real downside of #3, as compared to #2, is that it requires 2 slots for the Caretaker effect rather than just 1.

How many such bonuses should each facility be able to have?

I'd be quite satisfied with just one.

Yeah, that probably wouldn't be too hard.

(Also, be aware that FACILITY, 42 does not work exactly the same as something like the Command Nexus.)

Different is, IMO, good (after all, we have a bunch of Command Nexus-type projects already), but I'm not wedded to the faction bonus types and syntax so much as wanting a way to do something interesting with all those empty slots.

Ok.

[MercantileInterest]

Does your existing patch fix the multiplayer probe bug?

[Yitzi]

Does your existing patch fix the multiplayer probe bug?

I know there was a probe bug fixed in Scient's patch, but nothing other than that as far as I remember.  Which is the MP probe bug?

[MercantileInterest]

If a human controlled faction detects one of your probe teams in its city, you (the player who sent the probe) get to decide the other side's reaction.

New idea for infiltration: could sunspot activity have an effect? Temporary interruption for alliances, planetary governorship and the Empath Guild; cancellation for ordinary probe infiltration. You would still be able to install a new infiltrator while the sunspots were in effect.

[MercantileInterest]

Clarification: this is a play by email issue.

[MercantileInterest]

Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

[Yitzi]

If a human controlled faction detects one of your probe teams in its city, you (the player who sent the probe) get to decide the other side's reaction.

How should it work?  Normally, the reaction is supposed to happen immediately...so for PBEM, what is a better approach than PMing the target and asking him what to select for said reaction?

New idea for infiltration: could sunspot activity have an effect? Temporary interruption for alliances, planetary governorship and the Empath Guild; cancellation for ordinary probe infiltration. You would still be able to install a new infiltrator while the sunspots were in effect.

That could definitely be done.

[Yitzi]

Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

No, it shouldn't.  Or if it does, it would be so small as to not be particularly difficult.

[Nexii]

Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

No, it shouldn't.  Or if it does, it would be so small as to not be particularly difficult.

I'd say there should be no reaction by default.  But for MP there should be a 'declare Vendetta' option on the commlinks.  I think I had mentioned a similar exploit earlier.  Since you are default Truce with everyone you can force expel units out of your territory every turn, thus preventing other human players from ever declaring Vendetta.  At least until sea or air units usually.

[Yitzi]

Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

No, it shouldn't.  Or if it does, it would be so small as to not be particularly difficult.

I'd say there should be no reaction by default.

And how would the game tell whether to use that default or have the diplomatic-consequence-free vendetta?

But for MP there should be a 'declare Vendetta' option on the commlinks.  I think I had mentioned a similar exploit earlier.  Since you are default Truce with everyone you can force expel units out of your territory every turn, thus preventing other human players from ever declaring Vendetta.  At least until sea or air units usually.

That seems like it might be a good idea, but not a major one (since it can easily be handled by game rules).

[MercantileInterest]

"How should it work?  Normally, the reaction is supposed to happen immediately...so for PBEM, what is a better approach than PMing the target and asking him what to select for said reaction?"

Basically, in PBEM, the AI runs a player's faction during other players' turns. This AI can't conduct normal diplomacy, but it does have some influence. Suppose all players are human and the Peacekeepers attack the Hive. The Morganites, who are allied to both players, might very well have their AI declare war on the Peacekeepers. It's not a huge problem but it can get your units expelled from friendly territory. During sunspot activity, it can be a true pain.

To answer your question, suppose the Peacekeepers send a probe into the Hive instead of attacking. The Hive detect the probe. Currently, the Peacekeepers will get a little message asking whether they'd prefer to downgrade relations or to let themselves off with a stern rebuke. Can we delay the message to appear at the start of the Hive's turn?