Army Ranger School a Test for Women in Combat Roles

[gwillybj]

What I gather from my step-daughter is that "women training for combat roles" doesn't change anything for the men, as there has always been plenty of competition between and among them all, as a challenge to increase the competency of the whole.

The Israelis have been training their women in all aspects of their military for over 60 years. It's demanded of them, and they are expected to carry their own as a soldier, not a man or woman. It hurts when the reservists (male and female) are on alert or stand-by and don't go to their civilian jobs: the national economy slips a little every day.

[gwillybj]

I came across this (very long) item while looking for more info on the subject. I didn't read it all – maybe some brave soul will try – but bits and pieces were interesting enough to share the link (and a nice pic, too).

http://futurewarstories.blogspot.com/2014/04/fws-topics-female-soldiers.html

Future War Stories
A Blog Devoted to Exploring and Explaining the World of Military Science Fiction.
05 April 2014
FWS Topics: Female Soldiers

When you enter the science fiction section of bookstores or surf online book seller websites, it is easy to spot one of the strongest symbols of military science fiction: the full integration of women into the military, including combat roles. Women infantry donned in futuristic armor using futuristic weaponry is a staple of sci-fi and is found across all media. Some creators of these sci-fi proprieties sexualize the female soldier to garner more sales for their product. Others, like myself, present a more realistic idea of female soldiers in future military service. Until recently, women were mostly banned from the combat-center jobs in the military, and this used to be called the "Brass Ceiling".  However, the present is catching up the future, with more military organizations are lifting the ban between female soldiers and the combat roles. This even includes the infantry and special forces. With the altering of the modern battlefield and the burred frontlines, more women have seen combat in the 21st century, and this altering reality of modern warfare shifted the point of view on females in combat. While this blogpost has been in the draft since the founding of FWS in summer of 2010, I've waited to craft the right balance and depth needed to explore this trope of science fiction. Paired with the normal discussion of sci-fi's take on female soldiers, I've also included extensive information on modern female soldiers as well. Be warned readers, this is not an easy or funny blogpost, and some of the topics we're going to be discussing are difficult and painfully. It is my intention to education with this blogpost about the various issues facing modern female soldiers and how science fiction deals with the same topic. On a personal note, this blogpost has also been on the blog draft pile for some time, due to the difficult topics associated with female soldiers in modern military service. Also, this blogpost was a challenge to write due to the steer volume of information and the sci-fi examples I drew upon. Those examples took more than three weeks of research and writing, the full blogpost was more two months of work. It is my hope that with this blogpost that the world of female soldiers has been done justice.

Specific to Israel:

Around the global, the IDF is famous for the massive inclusion of females into military service, which goes back to the founding of Israel in 1948. With enemies on all sides of the Jewish nation, it was believed in times of invasion, that all citizens of Israel needed to know how to fight. This was not only a practical tactical decision, but also a deterrent for any enemy wanting to invade. Today, about 92% of all IDF jobs are open to females, and women comprise about 33% of all soldiers, and 51% of their officer corps. In 2000, the mixed sex combat unit, the Caracal Battalion is formed with the idea to test the theory of mixed sex combat units. In 2012, the unit was tested under fire, and successful in the engagement. Today, the Caracal Unit is about 60-70% female. Israel is not like other nations, and the concept of military is so engraving into the national mindset, that a mixed sex military is a not looked at as alien or different. Girls expect to serve, and if Israel is attacked, than women of the Jewish state are expected to fight. We saw this recently with the World War Z film.

This is not to say no other nation is training its women to be warriors. It's just an example that stands out in the 20th century.

[Buster's Uncle]

Good point about stamina, but that's just another place girl women of the female sort are easily competitive, indeed, they were saying in my youth, have a slight edge.

Give me Quicksilver's powers and a toolkit, and I'll win against a tank every time -allowing for the luck of not running into stray bullets on the battlefield.  Give me Quicksilver's powers and some adamantium knucks, you take the Hulk's powers, and I'll knock you unconscious in a minute or two, though my arm will be very tired from hitting you in the same spot 100 times a second.  Take it to the bank.

[vonbach]

The problem is they have to tone down the training to let women actually pass the courses.
Women aren't built for combat physically or emotionally. They get themselves  or others
killed when they do get into combat roles. Israel isn't the best example either. They wouldn't last
a week without the unlimited US support they get.

[Lord Avalon]

Good point about stamina, but that's just another place girl women of the female sort are easily competitive, indeed, they were saying in my youth, have a slight edge.

Give me Quicksilver's powers and a toolkit, and I'll win against a tank every time -allowing for the luck of not running into stray bullets on the battlefield.  Give me Quicksilver's powers and some adamantium knucks, you take the Hulk's powers, and I'll knock you unconscious in a minute or two, though my arm will be very tired from hitting you in the same spot 100 times a second.  Take it to the bank.

Bah. You don't have a minute. Hulk pounds ground, bouncing Quicksilver into the air where he can't dodge, and knocks him into next month.

[Buster's Uncle]

Bah yourself.  I'm so fast I can swim in air and laugh as I watch you (fail to) dodge my permanently damaging your skull.  Enjoy healing from the beating.

My arm's really wracked up for months afterwards, but you're dead or not depending on my choice.  I've been in a LOT o0f fights, and I'd rather be fast.

[Lord Avalon]

Hulk claps hands together, causing area of effect shockwave which stuns airswimming Quicksilver, then Hulk knocks him into next month.

[Buster's Uncle]

No.  No. No.

You're thinking the tricks that work in the comics and shouldn't - try "Hulk claps ha -AAAAAAAA!- interrupted milliseconds into initiating the motion by Quicksilver kicking him in the balls 10,000 times."

Eat more beans, 'cause you ain't showing Betty a good time for at least a week, and only that and not dying of crotch-bleed because healing powers.

[Lord Avalon]

No, you forgot Hulk bounced Quicksilver into the air, so he's not interrupting anything.

[Buster's Uncle]

You could beat Quicksilver by blowing up a plane with him in it, but that stuff wouldn't work on the ground; the world's in slow-mo to him and he never hung around long enough to be sent airborne in the first place.  He'd have to be blackout-drunk, incredibly unlucky, or unforgivably careless to lose more than one in a thousand fights to anyone slower than the Silver Surfer.

And no, I'm not a Quicksilver fanboi, and no, I haven't seen the last X-Men movie.  I've just thought hard about superpowers, realistically.

[Buster's Uncle]

1st women to pass Ranger School are Army pilot, military cop
Associated Press
By RUSS BYNUM  1 hour ago



On Thursday, August 20th the first two women set to graduate from the US Army's grueling Ranger school will speak to the press for the first time. Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver are the first female soldiers to make it through the Army's tough 62 day course.



FORT BENNING, Ga. (AP) — The first two women to pass the Army's notoriously difficult Ranger School impressed male classmates left in their dust during road marches and proved their mettle as teammates by helping carry heavy weapons when others were too fatigued to lift another ounce.

As the Pentagon weighs a decision on allowing women to serve in combat jobs long held by men only, a Ranger School comrade offered a blunt assessment of Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver as they spoke to reporters Thursday.

"They can serve by my side anytime because I know I can trust them," 2nd Lt. Erickson Krogh said. "Especially these two. I'd have no qualms about serving with them in combat."

Griest, 26, of Orange, Connecticut, and Haver, 25, of Copperas Cove, Texas, will become the first women to wear the Army's coveted Ranger tab when they graduate alongside 94 male soldiers Friday at Fort Benning.

Despite proving their grit in the two-month Ranger course, the two women are still unable to join infantry, armor and special forces units — including the 75th Ranger Regiment. That could change next year after the Pentagon makes its recommendations.

At a news conference Friday, the women stopped short of saying they earned a place in combat units by finishing the notoriously grueling two-month Ranger course — something only about 3 percent of Army soldiers accomplish. But Griest said she hopes the achievement at least carries some weight in the final decisions.



U.S. Army Army 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, right, speaks with reporters, Thursday, Aug. 20, 2015, at Fort Benning, Ga., where she was scheduled to graduate Friday from the Army’s elite Ranger School. Haver and Army Capt. Kristen Griest are the first two women to complete the notoriously grueling Ranger course, which the Army opened to women this spring as it studies whether to open more combat jobs to female soldiers. (AP Photo/Russ Bynum)


"I'm definitely interested to see what new doors do open up for women," said Griest, a military police officer and Afghanistan veteran stationed at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.

She said she might be interested in a special forces career if that path was open to her.

Haver, an Apache helicopter pilot stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado, said she plans to stick with aviation. She acknowledged going into Ranger School with some doubts as to how male soldiers would react.

"It's pretty cool that they have accepted us," she said. "We ourselves came into this with our guard up just in case there were haters or naysayers. But we didn't come with chips on our shoulders like we had anything to prove."

Several male classmates chosen by the Army to attend a news conference with Griest and Haver acknowledged they too weren't sure at first that female soldiers could handle long marches and patrols carrying rucksacks, rifles and other gear weighing 100 pounds or more.



U.S. Army Capt. Kristen Griest of Orange, Connecticut, speaks with reporters Thursday, Aug. 20, 2015, at Fort Benning, Ga., where she was scheduled to graduate Friday from the Army’s elite Ranger School. Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver are the first two women to complete the notoriously grueling Ranger course, which the Army opened to women this spring as it studies whether to open more combat jobs to female soldiers. (AP Photo/Russ Bynum)


Spc. Christopher Carvalho, a medic in the same Ranger school class, said his skepticism ended on the first road march when the women left many of their male counterparts far behind.

"Right then and there that's what validated me to say these women are here to stay," Carvalho said.

Classmates 2nd Lt. Michael Janowski and 2nd Lt. Zachary Hanger both told of how Haver and Griest jumped in to help carry heavy loads when other male trainees were too fatigued to assist.

Hanger called the women "absolutely physical studs."

Haver and Griest — both graduates of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point — not only finished the course they started in April. They both had to start from scratch, having failed two previous attempts.



In this April 26, 2015, photo, 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, one of the 20 female soldiers, who is among the 400 students who qualified to start Ranger School, tackles the Darby Queen obstacle course, one of the toughest obstacle courses in U.S. Army training, at Fort Benning, in Ga. Haver and Capt. Kristen Griest are the first women to complete the U.S. Army's grueling Ranger School and were scheduled to graduate Friday, Aug. 21, alongside 94 male soldiers at Fort Benning, Ga., families of the soldiers confirmed Wednesday. (Robin Trimarchi/Ledger-Enquirer via AP)


"These two soldiers have absolutely earned the respect of every Ranger instructor," Command Sgt. Major Curtis Arnold told reporters. "They do not quit and they do not complain."

Arnold said he suspects Haver and Griest had extra motivation to graduate "because you know everyone is watching. And truthfully there are probably a few folks who want you to fail. So you've got to put out 110 percent."

Both women were among 19 female soldiers who enrolled in Ranger school in April. During the last of their three attempts, 364 soldiers started and only 96 finished.

Before this spring, only men had been allowed to enroll since the Ranger School opened in 1972.

Ranger School teaches soldiers combat skills, from standard patrols to raids and air assaults, while pushing the limits of the trainees' physical and mental endurance. It's considered one of the most difficult courses in the Army.

Soldiers spend days scaling mountains in north Georgia and slogging through swampy terrain in Florida. They travel long distances by foot carrying rucksacks, weapons and other gear weighing 100 pounds or more. And they don't get much chance to rest or refuel.

For much of the course, Ranger trainees are fed just twice a day, eating nothing but military rations sealed in plastic bags. Many nights they get only a single hour of sleep.

"You're way too tired and way too hungry to care" about the gender of fellow Ranger School classmates, said Staff Sgt. Michael Calderon, one of the women's classmates. "In your mind you knew what was going on, but at the end of the day everyone was a Ranger."

http://news.yahoo.com/army-pilot-military-cop-1st-women-pass-ranger-090909029.html#

[vonbach]

This type of politically correct nonsense is a great example why the morale in the military is drop dead low.
The US military is the laughingstock of the worlds military because of stuff like this.

[Buster's Uncle]

Vas you dere, Cholly?

[Lorizael]

Terrible quality, but relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj1MCjeFxrM

(Am I missing a video attachment thingy?)

[Buster's Uncle]

Take the 's' out of https:, and it will embed.  Thus:

The future wars (according to Simpsons)