Author Topic: Seeking Development Team and Players  (Read 25865 times)

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Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2015, 09:24:55 PM »
Morgan with a more military focus?  That's not completely unlike his background with the Unity expedition.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #106 on: June 29, 2015, 01:38:20 AM »
Van de Graaf is sort of like Morgan with a more military focus, yes.

Cobb is an Extractor and is focused on neuroscientific applications despite his corporate association.
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

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Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2015, 10:09:23 PM »
Here's the parallel thread at CFC: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=531593 BTW.

The ones at 'poly http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/211519-Alpha-Centauri-2-Seeking-Development-Team-and-Players
-and WPC http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?8893-Alpha-Centauri-2-Seeking-Development-Team-and-Players
-could use a little TLC.

This project is generating custom factions that will be good for the whole community, so let's support it...

Offline Eadee

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #108 on: July 17, 2015, 01:42:36 AM »
To clarify, I am looking for members of the development team at this time.

I am especially interested in graphic designers who can help with maps, icons, and graphics for a planned wiki. I am also open to expressions of interest and faction ideas from players but cannot accept firm claims at this time.

Cheers!


*expressing interest*
I'm seriously intrigued. Since I really love roleplaying (mostly tabletop but also other types) and strategic board games a lot and I always wanted a game that works as both. And this game you describe sounds pretty much like what I was looking for a long time.

Is there any estimate on when the game will start / players can sign up for playing?

Also: I might be able to help a bit out on graphics and Icons. I could also try working on an actual globe-map instead of a flat one with Fractal Terrains but I haven't done much with this Program yet, so no promises there.

Here a sample I just created to show what I'm talking about:

Second one with more frames, but I made it smaller to save time:
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 02:00:33 AM by Eadee »
Disclaimer: No mind worms were harmed in the making of this post.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #109 on: July 17, 2015, 03:53:26 AM »
Welcome, Eadee! We're more than happy to have you join the discussion. Always looking for folks to add to the development crew -- especially if they've got the ability to contribute special items like maps and icons!

The game isn't schedule for a start date yet. We're still designing factions, coming up with the back story (an initial sample is posted earlier in this discussion thread, with a request for critique/input), and a tech tree. I think the background material is most important, honestly.

In terms of faction claims, I'm willing to recognize them now. Any particular faction you have in mind to play?

Again, welcome!
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #110 on: July 17, 2015, 08:17:53 AM »
Upon invitation,  here  is  a description  via  survey  of  a faction of my design:  The Crystal Ladder.

The leader head , I came up with, but...  I'm  up for crowdsourcing that figure,  in all honesty.  I have a concept of  the  events that lead to the creation of the faction as a movement  aboard  whatever  ship, but, a specific leader,  I have an idea  but I'm not attached to it.

Please  consider  these elements  and  critique  on
1)  Coherence
2)  Elegance
3)  Sense
4)  What's missing

----
The Crystal Ladder

(click to show/hide)

1. Why did human civilization fail on Earth?

A lack of knowing what is worth honoring, respecting, or valuing,  which itself arises  from  a lack of an edified populace, which itself arises from  an apathy  to the ignorance of others - the sense of superiority or factionalism that invaded people  in every socioeconomic rung  and  with every temperament.  Only a small number of academics were spared, and the world's undiscovered wise 'untouchables'.  A great many  academics and  educated elite, fell to layers upon layers of this  factionalist disease, at each turn  thinking themselves superior or chosen or for some other reasoning rationalizing turning their backs  on  fellow Humans.  They thought they were the ones who understood, they were the ones who had seen the choice and made the right one, they were the ones who worked for the good life.

It was  ignorance and rationalization all around.  People can choose not to work for enlightenment, but they cannot make themselves unworthy of it.  They may pile themselves with sloth or vice and misdeeds or evil, but they cannot kill their divinity.  When the weight of these divine beings toppled over, the calamity stole away and drowned  nearly the entire  edifice of civilization, and the world was killed.  They were willfully blind of the totality.

They killed the world because of factionalism.  It was caused by fear, which was caused by ignorance, which flourished because people abandoned each other, which is factionalism.  But the cause of that  is  Human nature, which is meant to be nurtured, to become something more.  So the final and first reason is education.  When you've been shown enough, it's too painful to be cruel, it's too boring to be regressive, and it's too alarming to do and be anything but your best, all the time.


2. What are the fundamental constants of human nature or the universe at large? What are the practical implications of your answer?

Between Man and the World are the constructions of His ancestors. Mankind is not fundamentally sick, but Man + ill-understood constructions is an illness, a pathological dyad, against which the World is unforgiving. So Humanity is capable of continual, virtuous adaptation through the construction of culture, but that construction must be accompanied by watchfulness, and learning, and not forgetting, or Humanity will build itself out of mere Terrible Nature into literally Horrifying Disaster.

3. What will be necessary to ensure humanity’s survival on Chiron?

The answer to this  is just a definition of Humanity.  Who?  Any one who is dead did not survive.  Anyone who loses his Humanity did not survive.  The creatures that survive Chiron  will  not  die  because they know what they are, which means they know what they aren't,  and can  appropriately  discard and slough off the unneeded, the distractions, and then they can  make  a bargain  with the  difficult conditions of  Nature, and foreign polities,  to get what they actually want.

4. Should an attempt be made to re-establish contact with Earth?

Earth is no different from any other polity of Humans.  This is strictly a foreign policy decision.

5. What is the major end-game, or “project,” of this faction?

The endgame cannot be known.  Divisiveness will occur, and the faction must try over and over to synthesize knowledge and reform social order  before collapse with every  crisis.  The idea  is to  embody strength through collapse, to  build the kind of  people  who  can  deal with  the inflation, collapse, and rebuilding of economies and even governments, over and over, as they  certainly will, and they gotta know  that it matters, that it can be done, and that people will know.

edit insert:  The  endgame is a social reality  where everyone  is  making the same sketch of virtue.  That's what you're all trying to be.  There is an ideal and it's for everyone and  everyone participates in it.  There's differences at many levels but any  dyad of argument,  you both, you all, belong on the same ladder. 
So any person  can  see  where they are and how things are for them and accept it  because  everyone acknowledges the  goal,  the rules,  and  can look at your  factual situation  with a straight face and you can talk about it.  You know you both come from the same thing, you know  you  want  the highest thing.  You can construct yourself  into  your fellow's comprehension  because  you started somewhere they know.  You will take the time to do it  because you  know you are  that much the same as aimed at the ideal, and the ideal is the peculiar  thing that agreeing to aim at it  is the superlative in  binding people.

You're playing the same game.  It's meaningful, you're not being  cheated.  Everyone can respect who is winning  and why things aren't great for them.  There's an  explanation, because someone everyone is explaining it, as in,  actually stating one, and putting  effort into it, because.... it matters that you have one.  This is a connection, a togetherness.  It only needs to be one tether, not  entire sameness.  You belong together in some way, that's religio.

6. What is the faction’s proper name?
The Crystal Ladder
7. What is the proper adjective for your faction?
Ladder
8. What is the popular slang for your faction?
?

9. What is your faction’s symbol?
An equilateral triangle and a disc of diameter equal to edge length, resting on the same base.
(pff I dunno, something ladder-like and infinite)

10. What are your faction’s colors? (Choose two.)
Sunset red and sea-blue.

11. What are your faction’s words?
Wake, Watch, Wonder?  (lol)  I don't know.

12. What is your faction leader’s name?
The faction leader would almost certainly  not   be Western, and I don't  know actually  believable names from elsewhere places.

13. What is the leader’s gender?
As far as artistic concerns go, I suppose  casting the leader as  masculine would be symbolically contiguous.  I'd be hardpressed myself to put in the sufficient  creative force  to  make  a feminine character  who was not distractingly trope-born.

14. What concept or trope does the leader embody?

Mentor to troubled youth, Pillar of community, Atlas.  Jama Barre.  Derek Morgan. 

15. What was the leader’s position, if any, on the command staff? How did they end up aboard Unity?

... Child Psychologist?  I'm fuzzy on this , it seems a matter of storytelling, and I don't know the story pieces.

16. From where on Earth are this faction’s followers most likely to originate?

China, Japan, West India, Coastal United States

17. What were the pre-planetfall political and religious convictions of a typical member of your faction?

Valued centralization, even religion  as social order,  but  far too disgusted  with  every existing government.  Of religious folk,  only those  estranged from monotheisms.  Atheist religions are orthogonal to the faction's tenets, and monotheism   is still not rational enough for  even  the anti-rationalist  building blocks.

18. From what walks of life are the faction’s followers most likely to emerge?

Scholars of Humanities (especially theological), ministers, monks.  High-status socialites of highly traditional societies.  Agreeable katagi.  People from stratified societies.  The self-made wealthy.  Career criminals (the kind who live one fake life and one underworld life; less so the  "tapestry of deception" sort) - the dark truth is, they will have a ball with this faction's politics, both at first,  and for the foreseeable future.

19. What does a typical follower look like?

West Indian or Chinese

20. What does your faction prioritize?

Education.

21. What is your faction’s agenda?

a. Collate  prehistory  of  civilization mk.2
b. Develop lesson plan
c. Determine government controls to prevent  stultification or doctrinification of said  lessons
d. Teach everyone everything lol Teach history, teach people how to  argue constructively, teach people a -complete- awareness of the gap between  intuition  and reality - most importantly , just how darn complicated  the  present social order is, and what transformation it represents.
e. Build society and technology to guarantee the teaching continues
f.  A polity of  citizens  who  won't want to  screw up again  emerges, who know exactly where they are in history, and have been walked through all the dumb ideas everybody else had already, and all the ideas that had the world's attention at some point, but especially  the bare descriptions of how things really worked (edit: socioeconomically) and  what happened at the time as a result (edit: sociopolitically)

Phase II:

a.  Polity  works not to  screw  world up.  Or does it anyway, but feels like a conformist doing so, so they probably won't.
b.  Smart ideas happen.  Reformulate problem. 
c.  Technological aides.  Economize.  "The lesson plan" evolves.  Unsustainable issue of  history getting larger and  adulthoods staying the same length, edit:  unless  youthfulness science.  Yay medicine.

22. What is the personality of your leader?

Expressive, honest, fierce, polite, patient

23. What is your faction’s default behavior?

Non-expansive, guarded, questioning/nosy, peaceful, research & growth emphasis, industry de-emphasis.

24. To what does your faction have strong aversions?

Laissez-faire  sociopolitics.  Rapid population change. 


25. What is your faction’s moral paradigm?

Know what you're doing.  Socialize what you do, often.  Don't be a special snowflake - if you're different in a good way, watch the world become the same as you in short order.

edit:  Debates aren't for an audience, they -are- personal.  Testify to your dissenters.  The watching world keeps  both your heads on straight, but the  speech is not about them.  The  mores of ad hom  will change.  Talking  about  what's wrong with the man  is valid, because he is more than his ideas.  But smearing is  improper,  it's just not  ...   the  transparent plea  for  credibility for its own sake  will , the populace will know to see right through it  and just boo such a display  right  down  from  the stage of the day.

26. What is your faction’s attitude toward ecology?

The 'world' is an "other" to Humankind,  but  the relationship of Humankind to the environment is a relationship of Humankind, which is  phenomenological if not psychological  and therefore  studied relentlessly. 
Being separate from Human allegiance,  the world is a place of potential and resource, and that potential is nothing until it is made into  something.  It is either built into something, or it  transforms of its own accord whether Mankind likes it or not.  Thing is, once science has had a good look at it, it isn't unwrought potential anymore, it's a part of experience, and ignoring experiences like  "This climate change means we're doomed" will be catastrophe  over and beyond  knowing  that it's  just a  fact  of inevitability,  because  a crisis of responsibility kills the soul.
Scorched earth tactics and other zero-sum shenanigans are a cruel and vicious ethic  that signals only the greatest most  ignorant.  Abuse of ecology for such purposes signals a tragic mind  which would alarm  the whole faction, and be enough for its steering committee to even consider war.

Sustainability is crucial to the faction.  But not  wildlife.

27. What is your faction’s attitude toward artificial intelligence?

It is impossible except where it would be self-evidently  catastrophic and counterproductive to the Human cause.  "Smart" automatons, on the other hand, are just really complicated tools, built with tools to  use tools to (possibly build tools to) manipulate the world as needed.  Strong AI is an indulgence not needed so long as Humans are not sterile, and  possibly  the end of  not just Humanity but All Things,  if the Singularity  both occurs and is of  an amoral type (e.g. has no rational basis for treating Humans as other than highly energy-inefficient organic paste).  At best, synthetic agents would simply be rivals as are all other life forms.  To this faction's moralizers, there is no scenario in which  Strong  AI science  comes  up with anything worth turning on.

It is hoped that  Strong AI's horrifically misguided enthusiasts would, along the way to unlocking the secret, essentially unravel  the intellect of the physical universe, whereupon any contemplation of  that production would lead back to affirming  the Human mode of being all the more, and not  writing it off .

28. What is your faction’s attitude toward the use of genetic engineering and cybernetics?

Genetic variation is  a problem-solving technique  that has no known substitute.  Until it has a substitute, the fancy of rationalia of  one  or  two dozen lifetimes  isn't gonna be enough to take any chance on changing it.  Meanwhile,  the Human Genome is   an academic paper  with  the  literally longest conceivable  citation log  on what a Human has got to be, so essentially no counterpoint  could prevail.  No one is going to be responsible for  singular experiments with it.


29. What is its stance toward the modification of non-human organisms for human benefit?

They aren't Human.  The extant question is what counts as Human benefit, which is always harder to determine.

30. What is your faction’s attitude toward religion? What is its stance on humanity’s chief religious text, the Orange-Catholic Bible?

The faction is religio incarnate.

Texts express ideas, and ideas that come from honesty are true, a truth about the person if not the world in a 'physical' way.  The faction is essentially igtheist, of course no such official platform exists to bother to state that.  Affirmation of  deities  is essentially  stamped out of youth  through  relentless questioning,  and monotheism does not exist, not a single progenitor from Unity  had any  belief of that sort at all.  A  cultural identity exists,  of a kind  of  neo-polytheism,  that started with  some  influential  essays  early on  pre-Planetfall  and  became  an essential literacy  and language of  the  highest  ranks  of status. 
Now Ladder citizens might  discuss  'churches of' various  deified concepts of  the Human condition  as a way of quickly running through a social thought experiment.  Perhaps such pantheons and temple edifices could actually form - but they would be transitory, so there's a disconnect with the usual norms of architecture.

31. What is your faction’s attitude toward Terran ideologies?

Ideology is deadly.  And the trouble of even having a system is the system always hinges on a point,  and is thus unbalanced.

32. What is your faction’s affinity?

-interlude of my opinion now-
The Civ BE affinities are incoherent nonsense.  End of line.  The Ladder would  say they are  transhumanists, were it not the case that they  already assert that Humankind is inherently in a transitory, self-transcending process,  and aiming that transformation is absurd.  It could only be justifiable on the basis  of  recognition of  transcendent truth, yet such is  impossible.  Humankind may have a Buddha here and there, may see a Christ once every ten millennia, but it could not see the world so well  as the process in the world which built the Human.


33. What is your factions mode of political organization?
They're quite mobile on that point.  I thought their thing could be  they  can  reform  SE  more frequently and with less cost,  but  are  restricted  from  choosing  -any-  thing other than  Simple  for  one of the groups, maybe simple economy.  Or maybe it's simple government,   an anocracy, for  de facto democratic liberty - with willingness to vary ecoomic and  social values tools.  Either way,  the faction can't have that Free Market.

34. What is your preferred economy type?

The  peculiar issue for this faction's ideals is  not nurturing class warfare, not having anyone sit in places where  they  get complacent and grow distant  from  whole  walks of life.  Becoming unconscious and factionalizing.  The only goal is transparency.  If  subjugation exists, at least  lying  won't.


35. What is the general configuration of your society? How do people get ahead?

Influence enough people, enough, in a way that they act such that it fulfills you.  Acquiring status and adornment is  understanding  value enough to  win it from people, same as anywhere.  I'm not sure I have an actual answer, here.
I guess a big gap is  what  gives differentiation to  sexual mating partners.

36. What is your faction’s posture towards interaction with refugees, merchants, and travelers?

Refugees are assimilated, which is done through a paraeducational system just as the children are trained.  Travelers are met with  stares - the effect of the faction's culture is to  freeze  in the presence of the unexplored, and yet it holds at this stasis.  No one will give in to fear and run, no one will turn so hostile and attack, although some may, standing their ground, indicate  weapons or combat-readiness.  Inevitably, the traveler will be greeted by someone  on whose individual curiosity  that incident  is owed. 

Almost certainly, the faction should be designed with a commerce penalty.  They get less from treaty trade than everyone else.  They're just not good at it, and they are not  welcoming enough.

37. What is your faction’s attitude towards participation in genuine multinational organizations?

Dubious.  A polity  so composed  as  to  be trustworthy  in the relevant ways  , participating via representation or totality in an expressly  multilateral  organization - implying there are lateralities to multinational affairs -  would  have to be  ideologically  the Crystal Ladder.  That is, those with differing interests  must be arranged in such a way that they are beset  by  the  uncontrolled needs  of some  kind of constituency, being different from the Ladder.  And, constituted in that way, having -essential- unruliness,  the faction  treated with  cannot  make  honest overtures.

World diplomacy can be multilateral.  But  "organization" + multilateral  makes no sense without a nation.

---
Name very much entirely a riff on White Wolf's  the Silver Ladder.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 06:50:06 PM by Horseshoe_Hermit »
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Offline Eadee

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #111 on: July 17, 2015, 09:43:50 AM »
Welcome, Eadee! We're more than happy to have you join the discussion. Always looking for folks to add to the development crew -- especially if they've got the ability to contribute special items like maps and icons!
Thank you, I'm quite excited to help with this. A to-do list concerning the materials we need would be great. I work best on request (ok not best, but I work much faster that way).

In terms of faction claims, I'm willing to recognize them now. Any particular faction you have in mind to play?
Honestly since I didn't know until now that I can sign up as a player the factions fell under "tl;dr". So now that I know there is a chance to get involved as  a player I'm gonna have a look at them closely. :)
Disclaimer: No mind worms were harmed in the making of this post.

Offline Eadee

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #112 on: July 17, 2015, 11:41:14 PM »
Okay, I read through half of this thread and skimmed through the other half.

I have to say I really like the domain the Estada Novo claims: A somewhat Monarchic Caste-system.
But I have a background in Mind that differs a lot to Estada Novo (based on a strong believe in Reincarnation and gradual "Ascension" directed towards a wholesome "Transcendence" that's never meant to be achieved.). I understand that two different factions with this domain might be too much, so I'm asking in advance if you'd be interested in a complete writeup of this or rather not.

Also, is the tech-tree similar to SMAC/X ? Then I might begin work on the Icons based on these techs.
Square-shaped? 100x100 px rgb?
Disclaimer: No mind worms were harmed in the making of this post.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2015, 04:20:37 AM »
Go ahead and do a write-up.

The Estado Novo was originally supposed to be a partially faith-based faction, but I suppose it really doesn't matter what they believe so long as a priestly caste is part of their four-caste structure.

In terms of the tech tree, can we schedule a time to chat? Have you got Skype? Ideally, I'd love some icons in the style of the original game. See: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/d/d5/SMAC_tech_tree_poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140912111923
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Eadee

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2015, 07:59:29 AM »
In terms of the tech tree, can we schedule a time to chat? Have you got Skype?
I do. Check your  PM inbox for the account name.
My son goes to bed at 20:00 most of the time, thats 7pm in Forum Time, I won't be available for a call before that time. Be warned, I'd say my english is fluent but I'm no native speaker so I might have to look up some of the technical terms or let you explain them to me.
Disclaimer: No mind worms were harmed in the making of this post.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #115 on: July 19, 2015, 06:57:31 AM »
Hermi, I’m very excited by all the work that you have done. I want to be sure that I understand the central ideas behind the Crystal Ladder. BUncle and I are developing short summaries for each of the factions so that we can develop promotional material for the game.

Do you think that you could try to prepare a faction write-up such as the kind that I prepared for the Hunters and the Dreamers? Try to follow the instructions here: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide#Limited_Bonuses_available_only_in_SMAX

Don’t worry if you “mess up.” The folks here are pretty great about offering constructive criticism that is both gentle and useful.

In terms of trying to understand the basics about your faction, am I correct to make the following statements?

First, in the opinion of the leadership of the Crystal Ladder, human civilization on Earth failed because it developed a taste for ignorance, and thus cultural decline, over knowledge, which begets striving and points the way toward a natural law of morality?

Second, the Crystal Ladder believes that the world (and “humanity”) is what one makes of it. The will to education, if you will, is the constant limiting factor.

Third, to survive on Chiron, mankind will need to apply its capacity for learning, because that is the basis for adaptation.

Fourth, the Crystal Ladder is indifferent to the question of re-contact with Earth.

It strikes me that your leader might naturally be the Unity mission’s Director of Education or something along those lines. (I think this faction naturally lends itself to the Unity more than to the Chiron Interstellar Probe, which was a more austere endeavor in which an educator might not have been deemed necessary.)

I’m not sure I understand your faction’s relationship with theology except inasmuch as many scholarly sorts are humanists, or else interested in different sources of wisdom.

It looks to me like your faction is primarily interested in educating the ideal citizen. You’re making your own version of the New Soviet Man, sans the Communist bent. That’s either a noble endeavor that follows in the highest traditions of Greco-Roman, or even Classical Chinese, citizenship, or else a horrifying excursion into orthodoxy.

Is all of this accurate?


Eadee, with respect to the Novo Estado, they focus on the idea that some men are born to serve, and others to rule. They are based on the examples of Italian and Portuguese fascism, which were steeped in social conservatism. I also took inspiration for the example of feudalism: some men are born to rule, others to serve; each caste is characterized by its own obligations and privileges. The faction is partly a meditation on what is owed by the strong to the weak, and on what terms. I envision the leader, Dom Francisco d'Almeida, as a rather cynical individual who believes that his personal dynamism makes him naturally fit to lead others -- and to receive their obedience in return. Are you comfortable with that?
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Eadee

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #116 on: July 19, 2015, 10:16:53 AM »
Eadee, with respect to the Novo Estado, they focus on the idea that some men are born to serve, and others to rule. They are based on the examples of Italian and Portuguese fascism, which were steeped in social conservatism. I also took inspiration for the example of feudalism: some men are born to rule, others to serve; each caste is characterized by its own obligations and privileges. The faction is partly a meditation on what is owed by the strong to the weak, and on what terms. I envision the leader, Dom Francisco d'Almeida, as a rather cynical individual who believes that his personal dynamism makes him naturally fit to lead others -- and to receive their obedience in return. Are you comfortable with that?

WellI already began with a writeup, but maybe I haven't clarified well: I'm not working on a writeup of the Novo Estado. I'm doing one for a different faction, one that is a monarchy with a caste system but with a strong spiritual motivation. I asked if it is okay to make a writeup for another faction that does claim a very similar domain (monarch caste system) to the one the Novo Estado does. I hope thats still okay for you :/
Disclaimer: No mind worms were harmed in the making of this post.

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #117 on: July 19, 2015, 04:57:58 PM »
Very happy to  receive  piercing  questions  and  reform  my description.  Actually I took some liberties for the sake of humour, I should  remove those.  "Teach everyone everything"  was  too much of a joke.  The Ladder doesn't teach   all known reality.  It educates you to the point where   you are able to learn - which is way more than  ensuring literacy.  Meaningful formative experiences have to be constructed, people have to be tutored,  to  understand  learning,  not just  a sum  of things  they learn.  They have to be brought up to  where they  know  other people are  real thinking creatures who when they  disagree or  make  you  uncomfortable it's not because they're monsters it's, most of the time, because that's what they really think.  And people also have to be shown  that intuitions can be super wrong.  Not just that they have been wrong, like  geocentrism. The point is to know  that  everyone 'knew' geocentrism was right and they were wrong.
They have to  be shown  what the political structure of the modern world  is  as a consequence of everything  it  -was-, that those things were used and then rejected. 

I chose the word 'education', not knowledge or learning.  Not teaching, which is  knowledge transfer  and  the  "teacher's experience".  Education makes the individual more than what it was before.  It equips them.  What you are is able to learn.  For this  it's  actually necessary  not to  have  people  learning  so much to feel comfortable with all their  facts.  The common  and pervasive  and  eternal condition  of people is that  you're going to  not know things, you have to be  taught how to deal with that.

You wrote:  "In terms of trying to understand the basics about your faction, am I correct to make the following statements?"

First, in the opinion of the leadership of the Crystal Ladder, human civilization on Earth failed because it developed a taste for ignorance, and thus cultural decline, over knowledge, which begets striving and points the way toward a natural law of morality?
Hmm.  That's consistent with them, yeah.  A taste for ignorance.  People lived  in  holes and patches of ignorance,  of what  other people elsewhere would have considered  critical  knowledge for being an up-to-date Human being.  Then they judged each other for not  having  this  knowledge(s)  and let each other fail. 
It's two prongs.  One, the  turning their back on each other; deciding that because they don't know, there's something wrong with them (in all the senses of wrong), not just because you didn't try to tell them - try really hard.  And Two, the lacking of the knowledge.  Like having a global economy and not teaching people what that is.  Some people were being judged and not even being told against what.  Systems were designed (or run) as all-encompassing, the new world-order, except  they multiplied  for every different group  who  had less and less even experience of the other groups, no  way to empathize.

The ignorance  that the Ladder corrects isn't knowledge of each other's opinions (that's awareness), it's knowledge of the  limitations of knowledge  and knowledge  of   societal construction  in the history of civilization and the tools for empathy  that are used in that.  Critically, it makes sure every person is capable of


Second, the Crystal Ladder believes that the world (and “humanity”) is what one makes of it. The will to education, if you will, is the constant limiting factor.
The world is what one makes of it.  Who knows what the limiting factor is.  The farce of continual  'teaching' and  economic upheaval and political revolution  certainly  keeps things moving.  Human experience is occurring.  But Humankind is  going to die  if it doesn't  catch  up  to all of that experience.  It's by no means valid to assume  that  the extreme  divergence  of  Fall of Earth  is the way things are supposed to go and for the best.  Complex systems  differentiate, yes,  but then they integrate.  That's how they remain  the robust self-transcending pattern that they are.  With Time and science, the forces are getting stronger.  It will blow itself apart,  or  be bound even tighter when forces are added in the proper directions.

Third, to survive on Chiron, mankind will need to apply its capacity for learning, because that is the basis for adaptation.

To survive on Chiron, Humanity has to  not destroy itself.  We are our own worst enemy.  Learning is good.  Technology is good.  Social change is good.  Actually, all of those things are unavoidable anyway.  But as Humans develop  they  create  both  culture  and  artifacts,  and  the artifacts  are sorcery that twists Nature.  It's supposed to be  to  Humankind's benefit, but it only works  if  people are awake  when they use them. 
When you said 'taste for ignorance', I thought of this.  You ever heard the phrase  "he's sleeping on him"?  For not paying attention.  People sleep on society, or even people (the concrete-minded are valid, too).  People go to  sleep.  Repeatedly.  They're  quiescent.  That cannot be allowed to happen.  The car is running.

Fourth, the Crystal Ladder is indifferent to the question of re-contact with Earth.
Yup.  Now, some  players might think they're supposed to  bring  their political reality  to all the Humans, but others might say  that  theirs is a social reality, which their political boundaries   maintain as such - or at least that the rules change  when  a  self-recognized body  politic  asserts  that  it  defends  different values.  This is also what the players of the game  could very well decide for themselves.

It strikes me that your leader might naturally be the Unity mission’s Director of Education or something along those lines. (I think this faction naturally lends itself to the Unity more than to the Chiron Interstellar Probe, which was a more austere endeavor in which an educator might not have been deemed necessary.)
Maybe.  But there's this emphasis  on  teaching  people  like children.  At least thematically.  The practical situation would be,  it's not that  the  formative years need to be seized  to  make the right impact on  people.  If anything, being a child still gets in the way of this.  But  this is education  that the Ladder  says everyone needs  to be a functioning adult,  so there's no other time to do it.
There's two questions,  one, who is the leader  de jure.  And two,  how would the faction even form, what  throwdown would happen on the  Unity or the survey?  It's possible the two could be different people, one person(s) start the movement, and it concludes (after Planetfall) with  a popular appointment to hegemony of another guy.

I’m not sure I understand your faction’s relationship with theology except inasmuch as many scholarly sorts are humanists, or else interested in different sources of wisdom.
Not theology, no.  The minister with his flock, though.  Different sorts of wisdom  that open the mind's eye, yes.  Ascetics.  People who believe in a higher power  that's still  "us",  but more than just saying  it's  what we're capable of.
The  entire  goal  of  the  faction, (I got this wrong too) is to  create  a social reality  where everyone  is  climbing the  same  ladder,  where  any person  can  see  where they are and how things are for them and accept it  because  everyone acknowledges the  goal,  the rules,  and  can look at your  factual situation  with a straight face and you can talk about it.  You're playing the same game.  It's meaningful, you're not being  cheated.  Everyone can respect who is winning  and why things aren't great for them.  There's an  explanation, because someone everyone is explaining it, as in,  actually stating one, and putting  effort into it, because.... it matters that you have one.
This is a connection, a togetherness.  It only needs to be one tether, not  entire sameness.  You belong together in some way, that's religio.

It looks to me like your faction is primarily interested in educating the ideal citizen. You’re making your own version of the New Soviet Man, sans the Communist bent. That’s either a noble endeavor that follows in the highest traditions of Greco-Roman, or even Classical Chinese, citizenship, or else a horrifying excursion into orthodoxy.

That is the light and dark side in a nutshell, yes.  I think  the   gradual corruption of the faction  would  not be orthodoxy, though.  It would be....  the same  opportunism  and greed.  Fudging numbers.  Rationalizing  cuts or simplifications  , calling it streamlining but  actually leaving  people in the cold again.  Manipulating things  to  seize control of specialized markets.  Y'know, the same %&#$.
The only thing you wouldn't be able to do  is call your political opponent a poopie-head, because you're supposed to tell him  what he's doing wrong  so he'll agree with you, or and accept he's different and create something important from out of your argument.  You're supposed to accept that he's been made, by the world, what he is.  Now prove he should  be having what you're having - you're both capable of describing your experience and being ashamed of  getting defensive.

As remarked on cfc, the ideal citizen - one who has  -actual- equal opportunity.  Not "an appropriate standard  that I can get away with  by rationalizing  'liberty' and 'independence' and 'fiscal finitude' and 'there are other problems, I'm doing nothing about anyway but feel guilty about them please and stop bothering me on this' "  later.  When the 5yr old wants his bike,  do you  put a bicycle and helmet on the  curb  and tell him  he's a biker now,  or do you  sit him on it,  tell him how to pedal, have him go and run with him for a while? 

----
So, summary.  There are two elements here, they're distinct but they complement each other.  The New Crystalline Man.  History is critical.  It's  something to learn, it's also something to walk through,  like  a play-act,  to  wake up  your consciousness  to  the progressions  of  natural Man  unto  the sensibilities  of  modern culture.  "Each piece is a step in the process, and all of the steps must be taken" indeed.

You also have to learn  how to   say what you  mean,  and  get the truth from  people.  Figure out what they're saying.  Make it make sense.  And teach  everything you claim to know.  Prove that  others are  capable of being you  (and you  have to prove you're capable of things you aren't doing).  Fringes (or 'the whole majority')  that don't accept  the way you do things (not what you do, but what you act to value), you must  reach out to  repeatedly ,  show the precepts of your success.  You can have some pride.  Or you'll lie or  cover up your deeds which hopefully will get found quickly.  And then  if people still resent what you  do  they can tell you why, and you can believe each other that it's  morality and not jealousy or xenophobic disgust.  But definitely when they receive your effortful essay, and they don't  either  give you back what for,  or  expose your [nonsense] if you did, or return  to  their  side  of reality contented  that your differences are okay or even   thrilling,  then they get to feel mighty  odd  about  avoiding all three of those things    which means they get to feel responsible for their  own existence.  So they get to have such that, where their experience is justifiable, that's self-actuation.  Or they have an inalienable object to tell them what they have is their fault.    Either should tingle enough to wake them up, too.

And third thing.  You  have to be  woken  up  *constantly*.  All the time.  This will never be finished.  Ever.  A being that was awake all the time would be  some kind of  god, not a man.   Or  a madman like the Joker.  There is, in all probability, no transcendence out of this, or perhaps no desirable transcendence out of this.  Hypnopompia is the skill.

The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #118 on: July 20, 2015, 01:41:25 AM »
The Hunters of Chiron really pop.  They  look  right.    I'd just  like to think  about what their  legal structure   is,  how do  the public at large express morals and mores.  The geniocracy looks plenty different to the university, too.

I've just learned that  some  terrible  bundleware  I got  , converted not only  file associations, but actually cannibalized some files  and  changed their  names,  which  has  compromised my  SMACX install  because  the art assets are now  "NCH.pixillion" files.  And possibly some text files, too.
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #119 on: July 20, 2015, 02:01:15 AM »
Hermi, I've set aside some time this evening to read your large post.

In terms of the Hunters, I think there are "band leaders" who come together, literally around the campfire, to coordinate action on a larger scale. Each band leader solicits input from his own people on a regular basis, also informally. Probably big issues are put to a plebiscite -- one man, one vote.

In terms of morality, it's John Stuart Mill's idea: your freedom ends at my nose, but is otherwise complete.
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

 

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