Author Topic: Seeking Development Team and Players  (Read 25747 times)

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Offline Yitzi

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2015, 02:56:54 PM »
Quote from: Yitzi
Definitely, but (as Journey to Centauri indicates), he does seem to want an "elite" alongside him, who would presumably have freedoms in proportion to their enlightenment.  The police state is for control of the masses.

Geniocratic, then? A divided focus on what it takes to "build" the ideal ruler and the various compliance techniques required to suppress the huddled masses?

Similar to geniocratic, but he seems more concerned with discipline and hard work and self-denial than with simple creative intelligence.

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I've never really known what to make of his faction. He talks about the importance of transparency, and yet the whole bureaucratic element can be construed (in some renditions) to partially cut against that. It depends on one's point of view, I suppose, whether or not grand mal concessions to cultural taboos (say, against vaccination) are a "liberal" value.

I think he certainly does have some internal contradictions...that may be a direct result of his general "try to please everybody/try to get everybody to work together" approach.

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I figured she'd interpret the Unity mission as the device designed to ferry her people to Salvation. Hence why every colonist is technically a member of the Elect.

Except her tendency toward preaching doesn't seem to really fit that...

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That's certainly a possibility. I figured that the Novo Estado would be the most-religious, after the Believers, but I agree with your general sense of religiosity overall.

I was just listing among the original 7.

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I've always felt that human alienation from "true" thinking machines was one of the more plausible aspects of the Dune story, if rejection of all computers entirely seemed stupid.

I think it is definitely a plausible approach that society might take, but it is emphatically not the approach taken in SMAC.

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Less inclined toward instilling discipline and values according to one particular methodology (i.e., military drill). Taking care, like the Gaians, to manage their settlements in symptico with Chiron's "moods," although inclined to fight back when the opportunity presents itself (e.g., by clear-cutting xenofungus).

So a sort of Harmony-focused  ;santi;?  Could be interesting...

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The idea is that he took a few hundred family groups and some number of single contractors and put together what he felt was the ideal colony in terms of knowledge, skills, and abilities.

I might need to look more closely at the history of early settlements in the U.S. and craft him more closely into a Cotton Mather type.

Such a small group would necessarily be a minor faction...but yes, that sort of "planned society" probably would fit well with the flavor of SMAC.

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Precisely. That, and dream-walking.

But dream-walking is the method, not the ideology.

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A faction committed to a revival of Greek concepts of civic virtue, arete, worship of a pantheon of gods according to the dictates of one's conscience, and cultural heterogeneity?

I'd say ditch the religious and cultural heterogeneity aspects, and just have the focus on arete.

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The Children of the Atom would not have a very coherent ideology, no. Still, they'd have a unique identity. Is that worth keeping them in the rotation?

Not unless you've decided that you no longer want to fit the flavor of the originals.

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I'm game. Is there somewhere I can go for their blurbs and diplomacy lines?

Each faction file has all that material.  The context of most of the diplomacy lines can be found (with the Gaians as a sample) in alphax.txt.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2015, 08:28:27 AM »
Quote from: Yitzi
Similar to geniocratic, but he seems more concerned with discipline and hard work and self-denial than with simple creative intelligence.

I presume that his emphasis on these traits applies to all his subjects but that he would expect his Talents to apply themselves to the close study of a certain set of arts and disciplines, mastery of which would be considered the prerequisite for receiving prefectural authority.

Quote from: Yitzi
I think he certainly does have some internal contradictions...that may be a direct result of his general "try to please everybody/try to get everybody to work together" approach.

Right. His tendency to view the popular will as inherently legitimate sometimes overrides his opinions of what is in society’s best interest, as with the use of genetically-modified crops, for instance.

I think, if Lal is the simple democrat, I might add Archimedes' Exiles, a faction led by an engineer and former designer of prisons. The Exiles believe that all aspects of society should be planned by qualified professionals.

 
Quote from: Yitzi
Except her tendency toward preaching doesn't seem to really fit that...

Why not? It would still be obvious that some of the putative Elect have wayward tendencies.

Quote from: Yitzi
I think it is definitely a plausible approach that society might take, but it is emphatically not the approach taken in SMAC.

Sure, but this is one area in which I think deviation is warranted. I see a significant difference between supercomputers and genuinely self-aware machines.

Quote from: Yitzi
So a sort of Harmony-focused   ?  Could be interesting...

Something like that, yes. Not quite as sentimental as Deidre, but supremely sensitive to the “moods” of the land. Both the Gaians and the Hunters are adaptive, but the Hunters are more than prepared to alter the existing ecosystem until it is more consistent with their needs (i.e., exterminating predators, clear-cutting forest), whereas I always got the sense that Deidre’s people would be quicker to satisfice.

The Hunters do, admittedly, subscribe to an ideology that is largely identical to Santiago at its reductive core, which is simply that the human body must be kept in top form to survive what is coming. Santiago adds the element of integration into a disciplined community. Marsh calls instead for learning Chiron’s ways.

Quote from: Yitzi
Such a small group would necessarily be a minor faction...but yes, that sort of "planned society" probably would fit well with the flavor of SMAC.

I think the New Two Thousand could be easily adapted along those lines. I may also add an element of commercialism, supposing that, unlike Morgan, who would probably see no benefit to restoring contact with Earth (if we assume that he could expect to face meaningful competition from other service providers in that event), van de Graaf is determined to figure out how to exploit Chiron for markets back on Earth.

Morgan is transactional, and I could see his faction settling into an oligarchy dominated by a small group of families made wealthy by trade. The Carthaginian model, if you will. Van de Graaf is more the cattle baron to Morgan’s railroad magnate. I’m aware that the ideological distinction isn’t yet there.

When I think about their respective answers to the question, “Why should we follow you?” I hear Morgan responding, “Because life is a series of transactions, and I’ve yet to meet the man who didn’t want something I could provide.” I hear van de Graaf saying, “Because absent my organizational skills, you won’t last the first cold cycle.”

The question of what to do vis-à-vis Earth is one that I’ve tended to introduce in my games as a source of friction amongst the various factions. The Chiron Probe was always intended to be a reconnaissance, not an “escape” in the same manner as the Unity expedition.
 
Quote from: Yitzi
But dream-walking is the method, not the ideology.

There’s no ideology per se. Just a general lack of morals and a fascination with the possibilities of neuropsych.

Quote from: Yitzi
I'd say ditch the religious and cultural heterogeneity aspects, and just have the focus on arete.

I think the religious and cultural precepts would be useful here. It leads to a highly tolerant society with a great many cross-cutting influences.

Quote from: Yitzi
Each faction file has all that material.  The context of most of the diplomacy lines can be found (with the Gaians as a sample) in alphax.txt.

Let me try to offer some examples.

The Hunters of Chiron
#HUNTER
The Hunters of Chiron, The Hunters, Hunters, H, 1, Marsh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Politics, Democratic, MORALE
  Politics, Police State, nil
  Hunter, Patrol,
  J.T., Marsh, High Hide
  Warden, keen, bloodthirsty, vigilant, savage,
  Useless Squatter
  adopt the attitude of the knife
  to strive, to seek, to find, and to yield
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  piss down my back and tell me it rains
  sharpening his knife and licking his chops
  sharpening your knife and licking your chops
  provoking Planet against us all
  blatant piracy, M1
  wildlands management, M1
  piratical behaviors, M2
  subscription, M1
  daring to excel
  the Main Force Patrol
  the Law of the Jungle
“Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines."
-- J.T. Marsh, “The Hunters of Chiron”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (“J.T.”) Courtenay Marsh}
^BACKGROUND: Kenya, CIP Game Warden
^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with Chiron}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+1 PLANET: {Conditioned to study the natural environment}
#FACTIONTRUCE
“If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”

“Sense in those words, I admit.”
“In for a penny…”

#FACTIONTREATY
“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”

“All right. Let’s do that.”
“I hear that it is customary to hang a poacher. Call me a traditionalist.”

#BREAKTREATY
“Say, #NAME1? No slander to say there’s many a clever trick done by an overlander.”

#DREAMER
The Dreamers of Chiron, The Dreamers, Sonambulist, H, 1, Cobb and Cohen, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Values, Knowledge, PROBE
  ?, ?, nil
  Hunter, Hunter,
  Roshann and Aleigha, Cobb and Cohen, The Fountainhead
  Tai-Pan, Director, imponderable, genius, vacant, visionary, effortless, skillful, bloodless, boot-licking,
  Addict, Lackey
  to plot the turbulent tributaries of the fully awakened mind
  to plumb fully the mysteries we are only now beginning to perceive 
  measuring your scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into your clutches
measuring their scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into their clutches 
obliterate our identities by coming and going and taking and leaving as you please
  even now, devising all manner of reprehensible tests, and us the unsuspecting subjects
  planning a little visit to extract what is not your own
  proliferating a knowledge that must be suppressed
  idea theft, M1
  identifying the first of us born with new sensitivities to our fellow men, M1
  endless nightmare, M2
  toll, M1
  falling toward apotheosis
  the Asset Control Division
  the Rules of Extraction
"Name the most resilient parasite. A bacterium? A virus? An intestinal worm? No. The most resilient parasite is an idea. Explosive. Highly contagious. Once formed in the brain, an idea is impossible to erradicate. My scientists tell me that even what is allegedly forgetten is still in there... somewhere. I haven't got a map. That, I admit freely. But I do have a lovely box of dynamite."
-- Roshann Cobb, “The Art of Extraction”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Roshann Cobb and Aleigha Cohen}
^BACKGROUND: Hong Kong, Proprietor; Myanmar, Chief of Neurosurgery
^AGENDA: {Understand significant neurological mutations among the CIP crew}
^
#DATALINKS2
?
#FACTIONTRUCE
“By day, you make war, but by night, you dream of peace.”

“I guess that makes you my personal genie.”
“‘Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon.’”

#FACTIONTREATY
“As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know that there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And finally, there are the unknown knowns; things we used to know but no longer remember. I can help with that.”

“Total recall? Works for me.”
“You have the look of an addict, and are no more convincing.”

#BREAKTREATY
“It was all a dream.”
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Yitzi

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2015, 03:33:47 PM »
I presume that his emphasis on these traits applies to all his subjects but that he would expect his Talents to apply themselves to the close study of a certain set of arts and disciplines, mastery of which would be considered the prerequisite for receiving prefectural authority.

Sounds right.

Quote
I think, if Lal is the simple democrat, I might add Archimedes' Exiles, a faction led by an engineer and former designer of prisons. The Exiles believe that all aspects of society should be planned by qualified professionals.

So somewhere in between  ;yang; and  ;zak;...could be interesting.

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Why not? It would still be obvious that some of the putative Elect have wayward tendencies.

Generally, the idea of the Elect is that they are those who are righteous.

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Sure, but this is one area in which I think deviation is warranted.

It's your system...
 
Quote
There’s no ideology per se.

Then it doesn't fit.

Quote
I think the religious and cultural precepts would be useful here. It leads to a highly tolerant society with a great many cross-cutting influences.

But the absence of cross-cutting influences is a large part of what characterizes the original SMAC factions.

Quote
The Hunters of Chiron
#HUNTER
The Hunters of Chiron, The Hunters, Hunters, H, 1, Marsh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Politics, Democratic, MORALE
  Politics, Police State, nil

So he'd tend to run Democratic? Interesting...

Quote
  Hunter, Patrol,
  J.T., Marsh, High Hide
  Warden, keen, bloodthirsty, vigilant, savage,
  Useless Squatter
  adopt the attitude of the knife
  to strive, to seek, to find, and to yield

Was there supposed to be a "not" in there?

Quote
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  piss down my back and tell me it rains
  sharpening his knife and licking his chops
  sharpening your knife and licking your chops
  provoking Planet against us all
  blatant piracy, M1
  wildlands management, M1
  piratical behaviors, M2
  subscription, M1
  daring to excel
  the Main Force Patrol
  the Law of the Jungle
“Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines."
-- J.T. Marsh, “The Hunters of Chiron”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (“J.T.”) Courtenay Marsh}
^BACKGROUND: Kenya, CIP Game Warden
^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with Chiron}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+1 PLANET: {Conditioned to study the natural environment}
#FACTIONTRUCE
“If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”

“Sense in those words, I admit.”
“In for a penny…”

#FACTIONTREATY
“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”

“All right. Let’s do that.”
“I hear that it is customary to hang a poacher. Call me a traditionalist.”

#BREAKTREATY
“Say, #NAME1? No slander to say there’s many a clever trick done by an overlander.”

Ok, now I have a better idea of what they're like.  Essentially, they glorify the pre-modern "outdoorsy" life.

That said, I would change the bonuses they would get.  I'd say give them significant fungus bonuses (but no PLANET bonus), a SUPPORT bonus, and RESEARCH and EFFICIENCY penalties.

Quote
#DREAMER
The Dreamers of Chiron, The Dreamers, Sonambulist, H, 1, Cobb and Cohen, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Values, Knowledge, PROBE
  ?, ?, nil
  Hunter, Hunter,
  Roshann and Aleigha, Cobb and Cohen, The Fountainhead
  Tai-Pan, Director, imponderable, genius, vacant, visionary, effortless, skillful, bloodless, boot-licking,
  Addict, Lackey
  to plot the turbulent tributaries of the fully awakened mind
  to plumb fully the mysteries we are only now beginning to perceive 
  measuring your scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into your clutches
measuring their scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into their clutches 
obliterate our identities by coming and going and taking and leaving as you please
  even now, devising all manner of reprehensible tests, and us the unsuspecting subjects
  planning a little visit to extract what is not your own
  proliferating a knowledge that must be suppressed
  idea theft, M1
  identifying the first of us born with new sensitivities to our fellow men, M1
  endless nightmare, M2
  toll, M1
  falling toward apotheosis
  the Asset Control Division
  the Rules of Extraction
"Name the most resilient parasite. A bacterium? A virus? An intestinal worm? No. The most resilient parasite is an idea. Explosive. Highly contagious. Once formed in the brain, an idea is impossible to erradicate. My scientists tell me that even what is allegedly forgetten is still in there... somewhere. I haven't got a map. That, I admit freely. But I do have a lovely box of dynamite."
-- Roshann Cobb, “The Art of Extraction”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Roshann Cobb and Aleigha Cohen}
^BACKGROUND: Hong Kong, Proprietor; Myanmar, Chief of Neurosurgery
^AGENDA: {Understand significant neurological mutations among the CIP crew}
^
#DATALINKS2
?
#FACTIONTRUCE
“By day, you make war, but by night, you dream of peace.”

“I guess that makes you my personal genie.”
“‘Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon.’”

#FACTIONTREATY
“As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know that there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And finally, there are the unknown knowns; things we used to know but no longer remember. I can help with that.”

“Total recall? Works for me.”
“You have the look of an addict, and are no more convincing.”

#BREAKTREATY
“It was all a dream.”

Looks good, although they still are fairly similar to  ;zak;.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2015, 06:31:14 AM »
Quote from: Yitzi
Sounds right.

If we take that to its logical conclusion, he's resurrected the traditional Chinese imperial system. A distinctive take on despotism/kingship.

Again, I anticipate much book burning.

Quote from: Yitzi
So somewhere in between  ;yang; and  ;zak;...could be interesting.

Faction leader is Sardul Singh, a supervising engineer aboard the Unity. Singh is from Jodhpur, India, son of a provincial inspector of prisons. He studied engineering and civic planning at the Indian Institutes of Technology. A former member of the Indian Parliament, he is notable for designing several maximum security prisons and planned nuclear cities in India, Russia, and China.

His psych profile is that of the planner. His file refers to a strong belief in the power of planned communities to complement social and criminal rehabilitation and promote physical and mental well-being, spurring productivity. He has a near-pathological commitment to order and economization, leaning heavily on operant conditioning as a tool of governance.

As a faction, they would presumably be characterized by increased efficiency, strong policing, reduced morale, and a planned economy. Probably their advantage has to do with drones.

Can you tell that I am indebted to Sigma for much of the text below? Cheers! Happy to remove it if he objects.

The Archimedes Group
#ARCHIMEDES
The Archimedes Group, Communitarians, Communitarians, H, 1, Singh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Economics, Planned, EFFICIENCY
  Values, Eudaimonic, nil
  Archidemician, Communitarian,
  Sardul, Singh, Alpha Block
  Architect, disciplined, pedantic, industrious, grandiose,
  Unrestrained Megalomaniac
  usher humanity into a new Golden Age of harmony and efficiency
  to build a society free of strife, want, or vice
  slowly acclimating those inmates he calls citizens to their cells
  so enthusiastically stamping out any trace of individuality within your ambit
  impose your brutalizing vision on what remains of humanity
  delivering interminable speeches extolling the virtues of obedience and similarity
  taking the most exquisite care to never let a smile go unpunished
  furnishing our cells even as we speak
  crushing the human spirit, M1
  raising men up by helping them to tame their animal impulses, M1
  next project, M2
  bid, M1
  designing for the future
  the Overseers
  the Code of Conduct

“A man's contribution to his society is reflective of his living conditions. The slum-dweller's work is quick but shoddy. He labors only for fear of the lash. His business is bread business. The addict's work is sloppy and uncoordinated. He cares for nothing but being set free to pursue his vice. Gives me instead the man with a home, the man with dignity, the man with a family. He works from pride, and with him, I will leave marble what I found wood."

-- Sardul Singh, "Human Architecture"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Sardhul Singh}
^BACKGROUND: India, 'Unity' Supervising Engineer
^AGENDA: {To build a society free of strife, want, or vice}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+2 EFFICIENCY: {Every aspect of society is ordered to reduce waste}
#FACTIONTRUCE
“The recent hostilities between our factions have severely complicated many carefully-laid plans. Perhaps it is time to rethink the wisdom of violent contention.”

“Agreed.”
“Oh, you know what they say about mice and men...”

#FACTIONTREATY
“When there is only one watcher on the wall, the inmates look to take advantage. But when there are two...”

“...then they dare not act!”
“I'd sooner spend time in solitary confinement.”

#BREAKTREATY
“Needless to say, I'd been planning this for some time now.”

Quote from: Yitzi
But the absence of cross-cutting influences is a large part of what characterizes the original SMAC factions.

I mean to say, I think they'd be one of the more tolerant factions.

Quote from: Yitzi
So he'd tend to run Democratic? Interesting...

I think so, yes. A charismatic democracy, to be sure.

Quote from: Yitzi
Was there supposed to be a "not" in there?

No. He's supposed to be successful. :)

Quote from: Yitzi
Looks good, although they still are fairly similar to  ;zak;.

One of the significant problems I'd like you to help me consider is that virtually every scientist of note -- Zakharov, Cohen, and Pahlavi -- is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber. Is Zakharov still Zakharov if he retains any ethics? I do think that a society organized around a university structure will be interesting, however.

Quote from: Yitzi
That said, I would change the bonuses they would get.  I'd say give them significant fungus bonuses (but no PLANET bonus), a SUPPORT bonus, and RESEARCH and EFFICIENCY penalties.

That sounds about right. Why a SUPPORT bonus? I'd figure an EFFICIENCY bonus for living simply, but penalties to SUPPORT, INDUSTRY, and GROWTH due to population size. Also, in game terms, they'd probably have had greater vision range and exploration chances than the norm.

Let's try The New Two Thousand...

#TWOTHOUSAND
The New Two Thousand, The Empresario, Two Thousand, M, 2, Van de Graaf, M, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0
TECH, Command
Economics, Free Market, SUPPORT
Politics, Democracy, nil
Oscar, van de Graaf, Nova Terra
Captain-General, daring, egotistical, visionary, double-dealing,
Rampant Egotist
demonstrate the viability of the planned colony on Chiron
to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property
seizing what is rightfully yours and calling it his own
seizing what is rightfully mine and calling it your own
empowering his tin-star marshals to impound whatever goods -- or people -- they happen to run across
carping on about the litany wrongs done to him
carping on about the litany of wrongs done to you
committing the latter-day equivalent of cattle-rustling
absconding with things not your own
absconding with things not your own, M2
taming bravely this strange new world, M1
colonial expansion, M2
stake, M1
securing a claim in the greatest enterprise of the present age
the Colonial Marshals
The Settlement Charter

#BLURB
^"The cornerstone of the American dream is each man's inalienable right to the enjoyment of his own property. This notion is enshrined in the law. It was sanctified by the blood of our ancestors. A man's land, it is his patrimony. A man's possessions, they are a part of his legacy. In right society, my property cannot be taxed but I am given a say in how those proceeds are spent. My property cannot be seized but I am given fair value in return.

We had a written agreement, Quoyle and myself. My property -- my people -- were subject to his writ for two years, reverting to my sole possession, free and clear, at the conclusion of that period. The purpose of that agreement was to secure the future of a unified colony. Well now Quoyle and that colony are dead. The contract is broken, my property scattered. I mean to recover that property by any and all means available to me."

-- Oscar van de Graaf, "Notes on Arrival"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Oscar van de Graaf}
^AGENDA: {to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Command}

#DATALINKS2
^+1 SUPPORT: {Contingency planning for virtually any eventuality}
^+X WEALTH: {Hand-picked settlers pooled collective wealth}
^+25% defensive combat bonus: {Armed retainers}

#FACTIONTRUCE

"You know what's going to happen in the morning? The whole lot of my boys'll be out, occupy the high ground, move through that pretty valley there, and have at your town. You will fight valiantly, and be butchered valiantly! And afterwards, men will thump their chests and say what a brave cause it was, too! But you'll be dead and gone. Figured I'd give you a chance to reason. You sure you're shooting at the right people?"

"As you say, this whole series of events has been an unfortunate mistake."
"I have some bad news for you: the cavalry aren't coming."

#FACTIONTREATY
"$TITLE0 $NAME1, I'd sooner have a good neighbor than a good fence."

"You've got one. Where do I sign?"
"I know what happens to those who make their mark on the dotted line. You better just light a shuck for home."

#BREAKTRUCE
"Bad news, bucko: You're bought out."
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Yitzi

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2015, 12:38:41 PM »
Faction leader is Sardul Singh, a supervising engineer aboard the Unity. Singh is from Jodhpur, India, son of a provincial inspector of prisons. He studied engineering and civic planning at the Indian Institutes of Technology. A former member of the Indian Parliament, he is notable for designing several maximum security prisons and planned nuclear cities in India, Russia, and China.

His psych profile is that of the planner. His file refers to a strong belief in the power of planned communities to complement social and criminal rehabilitation and promote physical and mental well-being, spurring productivity. He has a near-pathological commitment to order and economization, leaning heavily on operant conditioning as a tool of governance.

As a faction, they would presumably be characterized by increased efficiency, strong policing, reduced morale, and a planned economy. Probably their advantage has to do with drones.

Can you tell that I am indebted to Sigma for much of the text below? Cheers! Happy to remove it if he objects.

The Archimedes Group
#ARCHIMEDES
The Archimedes Group, Communitarians, Communitarians, H, 1, Singh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Economics, Planned, EFFICIENCY

So their favored setting decreases their favored value?  That's extremely unusual...

  Values, Eudaimonic, nil
  Archidemician, Communitarian,
  Sardul, Singh, Alpha Block
  Architect, disciplined, pedantic, industrious, grandiose,
  Unrestrained Megalomaniac
  usher humanity into a new Golden Age of harmony and efficiency
  to build a society free of strife, want, or vice
  slowly acclimating those inmates he calls citizens to their cells
  so enthusiastically stamping out any trace of individuality within your ambit
  impose your brutalizing vision on what remains of humanity
  delivering interminable speeches extolling the virtues of obedience and similarity
  taking the most exquisite care to never let a smile go unpunished
  furnishing our cells even as we speak
  crushing the human spirit, M1
  raising men up by helping them to tame their animal impulses, M1
  next project, M2
  bid, M1
  designing for the future
  the Overseers
  the Code of Conduct

“A man's contribution to his society is reflective of his living conditions. The slum-dweller's work is quick but shoddy. He labors only for fear of the lash. His business is bread business. The addict's work is sloppy and uncoordinated. He cares for nothing but being set free to pursue his vice. Gives me instead the man with a home, the man with dignity, the man with a family. He works from pride, and with him, I will leave marble what I found wood."

-- Sardul Singh, "Human Architecture"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Sardhul Singh}
^BACKGROUND: India, 'Unity' Supervising Engineer
^AGENDA: {To build a society free of strife, want, or vice}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+2 EFFICIENCY: {Every aspect of society is ordered to reduce waste}[/quote]

If he's going to focus on EFFIC and like Planned as well, I'd give him impunity to the latter.

But that does seem like it could fit...sort of  ;aki; minus  ;zak;.

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I mean to say, I think they'd be one of the more tolerant factions.

That would probably result from a focus on arete anyway...no need to make it part of their core ideology.

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No. He's supposed to be successful. :)

The phrase is "and not to yield", meaning to be successful.

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One of the significant problems I'd like you to help me consider is that virtually every scientist of note -- Zakharov, Cohen, and Pahlavi -- is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber.

You're missing one very important exception:  ;deidre; is a scientist.

Every faction leader who thinks science will solve all problems is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber...and the reason for that should be obvious.

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That sounds about right. Why a SUPPORT bonus?

Living off the land, and minimal advanced/needs-to-be-replaced-often equipment.

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Let's try The New Two Thousand...

#TWOTHOUSAND
The New Two Thousand, The Empresario, Two Thousand, M, 2, Van de Graaf, M, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0
TECH, Command
Economics, Free Market, SUPPORT
Politics, Democracy, nil
Oscar, van de Graaf, Nova Terra
Captain-General, daring, egotistical, visionary, double-dealing,
Rampant Egotist
demonstrate the viability of the planned colony on Chiron
to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property
seizing what is rightfully yours and calling it his own
seizing what is rightfully mine and calling it your own
empowering his tin-star marshals to impound whatever goods -- or people -- they happen to run across
carping on about the litany wrongs done to him
carping on about the litany of wrongs done to you
committing the latter-day equivalent of cattle-rustling
absconding with things not your own
absconding with things not your own, M2
taming bravely this strange new world, M1
colonial expansion, M2
stake, M1
securing a claim in the greatest enterprise of the present age
the Colonial Marshals
The Settlement Charter

#BLURB
^"The cornerstone of the American dream is each man's inalienable right to the enjoyment of his own property. This notion is enshrined in the law. It was sanctified by the blood of our ancestors. A man's land, it is his patrimony. A man's possessions, they are a part of his legacy. In right society, my property cannot be taxed but I am given a say in how those proceeds are spent. My property cannot be seized but I am given fair value in return.

We had a written agreement, Quoyle and myself. My property -- my people -- were subject to his writ for two years, reverting to my sole possession, free and clear, at the conclusion of that period. The purpose of that agreement was to secure the future of a unified colony. Well now Quoyle and that colony are dead. The contract is broken, my property scattered. I mean to recover that property by any and all means available to me."

-- Oscar van de Graaf, "Notes on Arrival"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Oscar van de Graaf}
^AGENDA: {to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Command}

#DATALINKS2
^+1 SUPPORT: {Contingency planning for virtually any eventuality}
^+X WEALTH: {Hand-picked settlers pooled collective wealth}
^+25% defensive combat bonus: {Armed retainers}

#FACTIONTRUCE

"You know what's going to happen in the morning? The whole lot of my boys'll be out, occupy the high ground, move through that pretty valley there, and have at your town. You will fight valiantly, and be butchered valiantly! And afterwards, men will thump their chests and say what a brave cause it was, too! But you'll be dead and gone. Figured I'd give you a chance to reason. You sure you're shooting at the right people?"

"As you say, this whole series of events has been an unfortunate mistake."
"I have some bad news for you: the cavalry aren't coming."

#FACTIONTREATY
"$TITLE0 $NAME1, I'd sooner have a good neighbor than a good fence."

"You've got one. Where do I sign?"
"I know what happens to those who make their mark on the dotted line. You better just light a shuck for home."

#BREAKTRUCE
"Bad news, bucko: You're bought out."

Sounds like he's unethical in his pursuit of wealth, knows it, and really doesn't care, but keeps up the pretense of "for the good of the mission" in the same way that people like Capone would take on the trappings of culture...could be interesting, though a sincerely villainous faction is definitely not in the flavor of the original factions.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2015, 02:34:59 PM »
Quote from: Yitzi
So their favored setting decreases their favored value?  That's extremely unusual...

We may, in fact, be talking about a Command economy, but I agree that their trait would need to reduce bureaucratic penalties, including inefficiency. Unless they are designed for boosted output instead.

I honestly don't see Sardul's as a happy society. When I think of him, it is usually in his subverted form, as the prison warden rather than the civic planner. His goal is to keep his human "assets" both manageable and productive, and to that end he is quicker with sticks than with carrots.

I'd relegate him to a minor faction if it wasn't clear that he fills a niche not really addressed by any of the seven original factions.

Quote from: Yitzi
That would probably result from a focus on arete anyway...no need to make it part of their core ideology.

I think it's a matter of comfort: it feels weird to think about an Alexandrine faction without its fetish for things "other."

Quote from: Yitzi
The phrase is "and not to yield", meaning to be successful.

Would you believe that I've always interpreted the use of "yield" in that sentence to mean "produce," not "refuse surrender"? This was in the context of the doomed Robert Falcon Scott expedition.

Quote from: Yitzi
You're missing one very important exception:  ;deidre; is a scientist.

Every faction leader who thinks science will solve all problems is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber...and the reason for that should be obvious.

Touché, although I think it possible to have a scientist who acknowledges the legitimacy of the popular will, even if he or she disagrees with it. The leader of the Children of the Atom was to be one of those.

I just worry that the science-focused factions suffer from (A) seeming artificially linear in their focus on particular disciplines (e.g., materials science, genetics, fusion, neuropsych, xenobiology), and (B) too much similarity in their mad rush to break all known ethical safeguards. I view Zakharov and Cohen as torturers, and Zakharov, Pahlavi, and Cohen as being prepared to experiment on prisoners.

I've always thought that Zakharov would have been more interesting as a distinctly "New Soviet man" type, but building the alternate history to favor a longer-lasting USSR, or placing his birth as far back as the 1970s, was just too hard or too implausible, respectively.

Quote from: Yitzi
Living off the land, and minimal advanced/needs-to-be-replaced-often equipment.

I figured that stood for efficiency more than support, but I see that you're talking about support from a base. The issue here is that I think Marsh's faction would be numerically very small.

Then again, the way the simulation is going to work, none of these modifiers is going to come into play in a way that can't be managed by the moderator. It is possible to be much more fiddley.

Quote from: Yitzi
Sounds like he's unethical in his pursuit of wealth, knows it, and really doesn't care, but keeps up the pretense of "for the good of the mission" in the same way that people like Capone would take on the trappings of culture...could be interesting, though a sincerely villainous faction is definitely not in the flavor of the original factions.

I acknowledge that he's gained Snidley Whiplash traits.

Originally, I figured that there would be some good in him. He does have values other than wealth and the enjoyment of luxury, which I think sets him apart from Morgan. The issue is that van de Graaf was a patriot, and nationalism doesn't really have a place in Alpha Centauri. For the same reasons, I've been struggling with the idea of a faction of genocide survivors who were put aboard as a kind of collective apology, led by an Erik Lensherr/Magneto madman type determined to take vengeance on the other factions and to prevent re-contact with Earth.

Van de Graaf is a meditation on the good and evil of the early rancher. Themes hinted at in the work of Louis L'Amour. What does it take to tame a wilderness? L'Amour, who otherwise always wrote about morally upright men, occasionally seemed to suggest that civilized society had been made possible only because hard men had jealously defended their initially precarious (and often legally dubious) positions years (sometimes decades) before. There was this idea that it was OK to ride into strange country and disposes other big men, and the justification was in the poetry of having the grit and wit to do so -- either implication or actual evidence of being the superior steward from a civilization standpoint. Might made right as often as right made might.

Van de Graaf feels used by the mission leadership. He feels that they abused the terms of a contract that he signed so that the colony could benefit at his (van de Graaf's) personal expense.

I think van de Graaf is also of the belief, common enough among the Founding Fathers and in many societies, that there is a class of "Gifted" men, either arising naturally or else as the product of gentility (the leisure class). This would be effectively an aristocratic point-of-view, although I think it would in fact be more meritocratic. I think, basically, that van de Graaf would take on anybody who could make themselves useful, but that due to the circumstances of the CIP post-plauge exodus, he'd have a lot of redundancy and dead weight among his population, leading him to indulge his darker side and endorse debt slavery.

As for evil, I think Yang is/was always palpably evil. So too Miriam. Lal was the only truly "good guy" that I remember encountering after Garland's death. The rest were implied to be quite insane. Morgan was perhaps neutral.
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Yitzi

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2015, 06:29:08 PM »
Would you believe that I've always interpreted the use of "yield" in that sentence to mean "produce," not "refuse surrender"?

Which is an incorrect usage; to produce is to be yielded to (by the land or whatever), not to yield oneself.

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Touché, although I think it possible to have a scientist who acknowledges the legitimacy of the popular will, even if he or she disagrees with it.

Definitely, but such would simply be a  ;lal;-type who happens to be a scientist; someone who holds science above all else will not accept the legitimacy of the will of non-scientists.

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I just worry that the science-focused factions suffer from (A) seeming artificially linear in their focus on particular disciplines (e.g., materials science, genetics, fusion, neuropsych, xenobiology)

 ;zak; doesn't really have any particular focus; he may speak somewhat more about physics and materials science, but I think he really respects all science equally.

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and (B) too much similarity in their mad rush to break all known ethical safeguards.

Well, those safeguards slow down the march of progress (or so they'd say).

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I've always thought that Zakharov would have been more interesting as a distinctly "New Soviet man" type, but building the alternate history to favor a longer-lasting USSR, or placing his birth as far back as the 1970s, was just too hard or too implausible, respectively.

It's not an alternate history.  It's a future history that's become dated.  At the time SMAC was produced, all the relevant events were still in the future.  (For that matter, the Unity launch still isn't until next year.)

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I figured that stood for efficiency more than support, but I see that you're talking about support from a base.

That is what SUPPORT affects.

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The issue here is that I think Marsh's faction would be numerically very small.

That would just mean they'd have less forces period; what they have would still be easier to support.

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Originally, I figured that there would be some good in him. He does have values other than wealth and the enjoyment of luxury, which I think sets him apart from Morgan. The issue is that van de Graaf was a patriot, and nationalism doesn't really have a place in Alpha Centauri. For the same reasons, I've been struggling with the idea of a faction of genocide survivors who were put aboard as a kind of collective apology, led by an Erik Lensherr/Magneto madman type determined to take vengeance on the other factions and to prevent re-contact with Earth.

Van de Graaf is a meditation on the good and evil of the early rancher. Themes hinted at in the work of Louis L'Amour. What does it take to tame a wilderness? L'Amour, who otherwise always wrote about morally upright men, occasionally seemed to suggest that civilized society had been made possible only because hard men had jealously defended their initially precarious (and often legally dubious) positions years (sometimes decades) before. There was this idea that it was OK to ride into strange country and disposes other big men, and the justification was in the poetry of having the grit and wit to do so -- either implication or actual evidence of being the superior steward from a civilization standpoint. Might made right as often as right made might.

Van de Graaf feels used by the mission leadership. He feels that they abused the terms of a contract that he signed so that the colony could benefit at his (van de Graaf's) personal expense.

None of that is universal enough to be its SMAC-style ideology, though.

Quote
As for evil, I think Yang is/was always palpably evil. So too Miriam. Lal was the only truly "good guy" that I remember encountering after Garland's death. The rest were implied to be quite insane. Morgan was perhaps neutral.

Not really; each faction leader (at least among the original 7, and of the SMAX factions at least the aliens) can be seen both positively and negatively:

 ;deidre; is concerned for the welfare of even non-human sapients and quasi-sapients.  On the flip side, she is quite an extremist in many ways, concerned purely with keeping Planet "pristine"...at least at first.

 ;yang; cares about one thing, and one thing only: The welfare of humanity as a whole.  So on the positive side: That's a noble goal, and surely humanity is more important than any single person.  And he expects nothing from anyone else that he doesn't expect from himself.  On the negative side: His forsaking any other values in the name of his goals mean that his group is a totalitarian nightmare.

 ;zak; makes good points about the importance of science...but on the other hand, he is quite unethical.

 ;morgan; envisions a society where you can consume according to what you produce, and efficiency arises from everybody acting in their own interests.  This is a good system for most people in most cases...but he doesn't really seem to have any approach for dealing with people who need some extra help, or dealing with market failure.

 ;santi; is focused on the survival of humanity...surely that's important.  But in the process, she tends to cause arms races...

 ;miriam; gives her followers purpose, surely supports those who need support, etc.  But being a non-Christian under her rule is probably at least awkward.  (She depends the most on interpretation, as while Christianity is clearly a state religion for her, it's not at all clear what that implies.  If you're still allowed to belong to other religions or none, then she comes across as one of the best.  If not, then she comes across as one of the worst.)

 ;lal; is fairly good, as you say...but he is described by his enemies as attempting to set himself up as the only legitimate authority on Planet...and his focus on the freedoms of the individual no doubt comes at the expense of the greater good at times.

 ;caretake; is concerned with avoiding a disaster of planetary proportions...and is willing to force everyone off Planet and keep Planet from progressing in order to do so.

 ;marr; wants to achieve godhood...but is willing to enslave Planet, and risk disaster, in order to do so.

The perspective that  ;lal; is good and  ;yang; and  ;miriam; evil is the perspective of liberal democracy...but the beauty of SMAC is that it gives a fair shake to all the perspectives.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2015, 08:29:45 PM »
As always, many thanks for the terrific discussion!

Quote from: ”Yitzi”
Which is an incorrect usage; to produce is to be yielded to (by the land or whatever), not to yield oneself.
As I mentioned, I read it in the context of the Scott expedition and his death.

Quote from: Yitzi
Definitely, but such would simply be a   -type who happens to be a scientist; someone who holds science above all else will not accept the legitimacy of the will of non-scientists.
How many faction leaders do we really need who hold scientists above all else? Are we nearing overkill?
Zakharov’s antipathy toward ethics and cultural aversions to science is Janus-faced, but not (at first) wholly evil. On the one hand, he believes that those who reject scientific advances as inconsistent with traditional lifestyles (read: religion) are simply ignorant buffoons who don’t deserve a voice. On the other hand, he regards ethics boards as an impediment to discovery. A variant of the “good of the many, good of the few” argument. Pahlavi takes the same dim view of those who reject tampering with human genetics, but her frustration with ethics boards strikes me as even less principled. A different of degrees, I think. Cohen is in a somewhat different camp. Zakharov conducts unethical experiments some of the time. Pahlavi pursues research along a branch of life science deemed unorthodox at best and unethical at worst. Everything Cohen does is essentially unmoored from conventional ethics. Still a matter of degrees?

Quote from: Yitzi
    doesn't really have any particular focus; he may speak somewhat more about physics and materials science, but I think he really respects all science equally.
In the original game, yes. If we are adding Pahlavi and Cohen, the one focused on biological science, the other on neuropsych, then perhaps it makes sense to posit that Zakharov is a materials scientist primarily? Pahlavi and Cohen are otherwise nothing more than a female takes on one potential road that could be taken with Zakharov.

Quote from: Yitzi
It's not an alternate history.  It's a future history that's become dated.  At the time SMAC was produced, all the relevant events were still in the future.  (For that matter, the Unity launch still isn't until next year.)
Right, but in order to make Zakharov a product of the Soviet educational system, I’d need to create a corresponding alternative history. Writing a detailed “future history” was difficult enough.
I’ve considered adding a national, ethno-cultural dimension to the game by specifying not just what types of professions were associated with each faction, but the geographic origins of their respective followers as well. For example, Yang would likely have been most successful when recruiting among ethnic and national groups accustomed to communal living, especially those centered around labor-intensive crops such as rice, and the various apparatchiks of repressive regimes worldwide. By contrast, one might expect Deirdre’s faction to be peopled primarily by the citizens of developed countries given to environmental concerns. I’d expect Marsh to have done well recruiting among those raised among so-called “settler societies,” especially the United States, Canada, Australia, South Africa, and Israel.

Quote from: Yitzi
That would just mean they'd have less forces period; what they have would still be easier to support.
Ah! I see now.

Quote from: Yitzi
None of that is universal enough to be its SMAC-style ideology, though.
It’s not an ideology, but it is a governing style and a set of ethics, which comes very close. Van de Graaf is the “big man” of Western lore; the rancher, the jefe, the plantation owner. He is at once entrepreneur and king, but his aspirations are uniquely local. He is given license to set the rules and to break them, but he is expected to be the bulwark against the storm.

This is also something like the character of Nucky Thompson during the first season of Boardwalk Empire. Master of Atlantic City he might be, but only a small fish compared to the emerging crime rackets of his day. In Alpha Centauri parlance, van de Graaf is the shark to Morgan’s blue whale.

Quote from: Yitzi
Not really; each faction leader (at least among the original 7, and of the SMAX factions at least the aliens) can be seen both positively and negatively:
That’s certainly true, but as I’ve said before, I’m not sure whether it was the game that defined Yang well or simply players who later imposed a bit of sense on what was previously nonsensical.

I think it’s possible to see van de Graaf as somewhere along the spectrum. Ditto the others.

Pahlavi believes that the human race will not survive unless it short-circuits its way to the next evolutionary hurdle, but in her rush to get there, she may be dooming homo sapien to extinction.

Cobb and Cohen are working to understand the neurological changes being wrought by Chiron on the human body. It is also possible to view them merely as hackers of the mind.

Van de Graaf wants to demonstrate that independent colonies can survive on Planet and proposes that the trick is all in the level of organization and investment beforehand. While his emphasis on private property might not be alien to a Morganite, his meritocratic perspective certainly would be. On the flip side, he is a petty tyrant.

Marsh believes that the trick to surviving on Planet is for small, democratic bands of rovers to live in a manner attuned to the land. There is a laxity inherent in that, disposing his faction to theft and piracy.

Singh believes that every aspect of built society must be carefully calibrated to produce the desired behaviors. He is either a genius or a prison warden.

D’Almeida (Estado Novo) believes that a caste system based on concepts of service given and owed is the only way to develop a social structure capable of ensuring survival. At words, he reimposing a dark age because his arrangement is impossible without a social pyramid.
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline JarlWolf

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2015, 11:26:14 AM »
When have energy, will make ideas for factions. Will come back to read everything.



"The chains of slavery are not eternal."

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2015, 04:13:19 PM »
Huzzah!
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2015, 11:12:20 PM »
So, with the proviso that JarlWolf is going to offer new food for thought on this subject of factions, have we reached a critical mass from which we can proceed?

One open question that I still have is whether folks think that associating particular ideologies with distinctive (but not exclusive) national and religious identities would be useful. For example, stipulating that Yang especially well among East and Southeast Asian colonists, as well as the apparatchiks of Communist countries, while Deirdre tended to pick up the same people who vote green in Western Europe today?

The next step, after that, is to settle on whether the game would benefit from any alternate history (e.g., Russia stays Communist after 1991) or if we should restrict efforts to "future history" only. I then intend to start posting segments of my proposed future history for critique.
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Yitzi

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2015, 11:29:57 PM »
So, with the proviso that JarlWolf is going to offer new food for thought on this subject of factions, have we reached a critical mass from which we can proceed?

One open question that I still have is whether folks think that associating particular ideologies with distinctive (but not exclusive) national and religious identities would be useful. For example, stipulating that Yang especially well among East and Southeast Asian colonists, as well as the apparatchiks of Communist countries, while Deirdre tended to pick up the same people who vote green in Western Europe today?

I think a weak association would work very well, but a solid "nationality X is always of faction Y" would not work at all.

Quote
The next step, after that, is to settle on whether the game would benefit from any alternate history (e.g., Russia stays Communist after 1991) or if we should restrict efforts to "future history" only. I then intend to start posting segments of my proposed future history for critique.

We have to change astronomical fact (IIRC, we now know that Alpha Centauri A has no habitable planets), so alternate history isn't such a big deal.

Offline JarlWolf

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2015, 03:11:18 AM »
Read through posts. Looked.

I know person who is helping me who can help with voice acting for faction blurb. He did audio work for my AAR which I will at some point release. I will message his email to you after this.

Concept idea for factions and observation,

Hunters of Chiron should be more focused on survival as a whole, while Santiago was more focused on military dominance. Hunters of Chiron should be fairly safeguarded, vigilant communities that are wary and distrustful of the local wildlife, and perhaps want to terraform fairly fast.

Bonuses would be increased terraforming speed, 1+ support due to communal supports and adaptive citizens, 20% defence bonus. Free perimeter defence.

Disadvantages would include, -2 Planet due to their destructive attitude to the local wildlife, -1 police due to rather independent communities and the need for people's security, as they will demand protection.

I imagine this faction as frontier survivors who are concerned with survival, building community. They would likely have aversion to green as its prohibitive of their expansion. They would would have no real preferences of what they like as they are willing to adopt any system, maybe power if you wish to choose.

As for how aggressive they are, normal. They aren't overly aggressive, aggression is tool to be used wisely.

Human Ascendancy is more focused on genetics, it is very much like Sigmas Genearch faction. Faction seems fairly fine as it stands, it varies from the blind pursuit of knowledge and instead focuses on human physiological perfection. Should not grow heavy in population, should be very controlling of population growth and taking great care for developing human fetus and growth of population and traits found. Very rigorous observation, may even be police state. Maybe not as authoritarian in other matters, however and quite liberal. Brave new world inference. 

If anything, it is much like Yang's hive, except instead of social engineering experimentation, it is defining the best physiological development for humans.

Bonuses should be;

2+ talent, faction devotes itself to developing potential of citizens, of honing physical condition, rigorously testing them.
1+ Efficiency, faction is very efficient as faction strives for efficiency and perfecting its own methods.
 -1 Growth, due to strict genetic controls and planning people do not reproduce as fast as normal, as it is highly regulated.
 -2 Support, the amount of time, dedication and resources to develop population and individual potential is complex and expensive. Well planned, but the expenses prohibit rapid expansion.

Aversion to fundamentalist. Preference, Eudaimonic.

Estado Novo should use terms carefully more. Fascism is not intentionally made in mind with caste system, as fascism is to promote a group identity and conformity to serve a leadership, exclusive to others outside their own group. Society is fine, but should go into detail why they cling to tradition so much and revert to feudalistic castes. What is reason they did this? What prompted this on Chiron?

Ideas for them? Perhaps there is new wave of Abrahamic or other religion, new generation of and they have a prophet or messiah of some sort dictating new scripture. Perhaps they believe that specializing into caste will produce better results for society, rather then allowing liberty to fail in other applications.

Bonuses:
1/3 drone penalty due to severe disparity of social castes.
Starts with Doctrine Mobility.
1+ Morale due to dedicated and highly professional fighters.

Aversion to democracy. Possible choice of power, fundamentalist, police state for preferred.

Issues with the Dreamers of Chiron is you seem to have many authoritarian factions.

For them obvious preferred is thought control. Something still seems off with this faction, as to why it would form with willing followers to start with. Perhaps reforming faction into Utilitarian thrill seekers that unwittingly become enslaved to power holder due to sheer amount of addiction to pleasure and thrill? Their premise being that humanity tried to avert from its base desires too much and did not release tension, and they seek to live a happy life.

Initial thoughts. Will think more... do you want me to come up with faction ideas separate of these or expand upon current existing?

Edit: Communist or socialist faction should be approached with caution- avoid cliches, departures from actual ideal. My own Crimson Comrades is example of possible communist faction that still carries some tradition of former powers but is clear to differentiate itself from past regimes.






"The chains of slavery are not eternal."

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2015, 03:28:48 AM »
Quote from: Yitzi
I think a weak association would work very well, but a solid "nationality X is always of faction Y" would not work at all.

I'm in complete agreement. Any suggestions?

The University of Planet: The Scientist. Recruited well among colonists from Germany, Russia, and Japan.
The Stepdaughters of Gaia: The Ecologist. Recruited well among colonists from developed nations, especially Western Europe.
The Lord's Conclave: The Prophet. Recruited well among Americans, sub-Saharan Africans, and South Americans.
Morgan Industries: The Mogul. Recruited well among colonists from developed nations.
The Peacekeepers: The Diplomat. Presumably appealed most to colonists from the western democracies.
The Spartan Federation: The Survivalist. Strongest appeal in the United States and Canada among "prepper" societies and Holnist enclaves.
The Human Labyrinth: The Despot. Strongest appeal was to colonists from communal societies of Southeast Asia as well as the apparatchiks of totalitarian regimes, especially Russia and China.
The Hunters of Chiron: The Hunter. Especially popular among colonists recruited from "settler" societies, especially: the United States, Canada, Australia, and South Africa.
The New Two Thousand: The Empresario. ?
The Human Ascendancy: The Eugenicist. Popular among colonists from the U.S., U.K., France, Russia, the Benelux, and Japan.
The Dreamers of Chiron: The Drug Lord. Popular among colonists from Europe and Hong Kong.
Archimedes' Exiles: The Planner. Popular among social democracies.
Novo Estado: The Monarch. Popular among colonists from the least-developed nations.

Quote from: Yitzi
We have to change astronomical fact (IIRC, we now know that Alpha Centauri A has no habitable planets), so alternate history isn't such a big deal.

At some point, it was honestly easier for me to riff off known history than an alternate history. The alpha version of this simulation, which I ran last year, stipulated that Europe had retained many of its colonies into the early 2000s.

Here is the first part of the alternate history. I'd love some input.

A Brief History of Failure
This is the story of two expeditions. Two visions of a brighter tomorrow. Two odysseys, each with the same purpose, and yet different in almost every way. The first was a mission of discovery, launched at the height of our pride. The second mission was exodus: in desperation, we fled the world we had seemingly destroyed for one that might yet destroy us.

Part I: Excelsior!
The twentieth century closed on a high note for Western civilization – “the end of history,” Francis Fukuyama famously called it. Liberal democracy and market capitalism had triumphed. Our leaders spoke grandly of a New World Order in which tyranny would give way to liberty, conflict to settlement, fear to hope. After our long, twilight struggle, we looked forward to a durable “peace dividend” and the comfort of ideological consensus. Rather than engage in self-immolation, the superpowers would instead deploy their wealth, influence, and scientific know-how in the common interest of all mankind. War, scarcity, hunger, disease – injustice itself – could be banished to the distant, regrettable past.

For one hundred years afterward, we made good on the promise implicit in the end of the Cold War. We tamed our baser instincts and reconciled ourselves as the common residents – later, stewards – of a global commons called Earth. With swords made ploughshares, we gained steadily in both our understanding and mastery of the world around us. Satellites and mobile computing revolutionized communication and made possible the unprecedented sharing of information and ideas. A wave of popular revolutions swept the globe in short order, courtesy of the huddled masses, yearning to breathe free. Rapid advances in the life sciences meant that we remained healthier while living longer. Between gene therapy, stem cell, and medical cybernetics, we banished not only a range of ailments, but of disabilities also. The hungry feasted on genetically-engineered crops during times of drought while the thirsty drank desalinated water when their aquifers ran dry. Fracking technology nailed a stake in fears that we were about to reach “Peak Oil.” Fifth-generation nuclear power and dramatic investments in renewable energy (along with not a little harsh regulation) lessened fears that we were poised on the brink of climatological catastrophe.

Not that we were perfect, by any means. Too often, the free peoples of the world sacrificed principle on the altar of comfort and liberty on the altar of security. The rich became richer and the “global middle class” burgeoned, but the poorest remained poor, and for these, life remained solitary, nasty, brutish, and short. We fretted about how to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle, and yet new nations, some grossly unstable, ascended to the once-exclusive club, while others that had already split the atom fell backwards into chaos, the safety of their arsenals imperiled. We continued to pursue our petty conflicts and focus on that which divided us. The end of the Cold War unleashed a flurry of ethno-religious conflicts that often seemed even more acrimonious than the ideological competition that had come before. Millions watched on television, gawping at the pace and ferocity of killing in Yugoslavia, Zaire, and the Caucasus. In trying to manage these early crises, the newly-minted American hyper-power stumbled more often than it succeeded. With more goodwill than good judgment, the international community fell into and out of messy wars in the Middle East, Africa, and the Near Abroad. By 2050, it seemed that our attempts to “drain the swamp” had actually produced a flood surge. It was another decade before, beginning with localized successes in newly-independent Kurdistan, that local governments turned the corner and embraced the more inclusive forms of governance calculated to reduce faction. The European Union, regularly diagnosed as “the Sick Man,” lurched from one financial crisis to the next and frequently appeared likely to dissolve amidst acrimony between an eastern half still clamoring for NATO protection and a western half happily gorging itself on the ruble. Meanwhile, in Russia, criminal oligarchy hardened to autocracy under supervision of men like Vladimir Putin, former apparatchiks in the Soviet security services. Following an expensive adventure in Eastern Ukraine in 2014 and a more successful invasion of Estonia two years later, Moscow settled into a new cold war with its traditional adversaries to the west. Eastward, the American Pivot to the Pacific engendered martial brinksmanship with the Chinese so that, by the 2060s, the United States Navy and the People’s Liberation Army Navy were skirmishing regularly in the Philippine and South China Seas. Although it would lose its entire blue water capability (including three carriers of its own) and suffer serious damage to key industrial centers, China would claim victory after sinking two U.S. carrier battlegroups with hypersonic missiles when the games of naval “chicken” first went “hot” in 2067. These renewed tensions between East and West contributed to NATO expansion on a global scale. The Global Treaty Organization (GTO), an alliance of North American, European, and Asian democracies pledged “containment” of Russian and Chinese territorial ambitions. For a time, it seemed that economic and political competition would soon give way to total war. But they did not. Indeed, these low notes remained exceptions to the general rule of forward progress. Instances of satellite and ‘Net warfare caused brief crises (and significant damage to the digitized economies of the world), but such contests appeared self-regulating. It was as if all but the most radical were afraid to take matters too far into the retrograde. By the end of the twenty-first century, we, the people of Earth, had become more numerous, healthier, smarter, and more self-confident. Our human capacity for barbarism and bloody-mindedness could still shock only because Jekyll visited less and less often, leaving fewer and fewer dead in his wake.


"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

Offline Trenacker

Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2015, 06:29:33 AM »
JarlWolf, many thanks for your input! I am tremendously grateful.

I am happy to accept your introduction to somebody who can help with faction voice work.

Please keep in mind that I am designing a forum-based simulation rather than factions for use in the original game. For that reason, bonuses are purely conceptual. They help to capture what the faction might “feel” like to play, but they won’t translate into simulation mechanics in precisely the same way that they would in the original computer game.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Hunters of Chiron should be more focused on survival as a whole, while Santiago was more focused on military dominance. Hunters of Chiron should be fairly safeguarded, vigilant communities that are wary and distrustful of the local wildlife, and perhaps want to terraform fairly fast.
I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page regarding the distinctions between survival, survivalism, and the kind of society envisioned by Santiago. Survival is the literal act of successfully eeking out a living on Chiron. That is, not succumbing to the hostile natural environment. Every faction leader has a specific opinion about what is required to do that. I think we agree that Marsh believes that every faction member needs to cultivate a certain amount of savvy with respect to negotiating Chiron’s harshness – and unlike Lady Deirdre, he doesn’t expect that harmony will always prevail.

Survivalism, for the purposes of this game, is a philosophy that emphasizes preparing for an independent, self-sufficient existence, usually by means of arming oneself with military-grade weapons and hoarding food, water, and ammunition. For historical reasons that will be explained in the background materials, survivalism, as a political philosophy and as a lifestyle, is usually associated with Holnism (a nod to author David Brin), which is a kind of pseudo-libertarian, anti-government philosophy that arose as a backlash against modernity and technocracy. Especially popular among libertarian extremists, Holnist teachings were often invoked as a fig leaf to excuse sociopathic violence perpetrated by the strong against the weak under conditions of anarchy. For this reason, “Survivalism” is a pejorative term. One generally does not want to be labeled a “survivalist.”

Holnists look a lot like the American Patriot and militia movements of the 1990s: they live “off the grid” in small, nominally self-sufficient communities of like-minded persons with similar political beliefs, usually emphasizing the illegitimacy of putative authority figures from the federal down to the local levels. They aspire to be gentlemen farmers but are more likely to live off the carefully-curated byproducts emblematic of the commercial society they claim to disdain. More often than not, their communities include numerous blood relations whose allegiance to one another is personal as much as ideological. While they usually aspire to a martial lifestyle in which the primary commandment is to be ready to bear arms in defense of the homstead – camouflage and tactical gear are ubiquitous – most groups merely “play soldier.” (It’s one thing to take orders when you know that weekly drill ends promptly at 5:30 so that you can get back to your beer, but another to live under the discipline of somebody whose leadership is not necessarily considered sacrosanct.)

Some significant percentage of Survivalists proved more than mere nuisances. Many cadres were led by sociopaths who occupied themselves solely with the wanton slaughter of innocents, the taking of neighbors as slaves, and the consumption of alcohol and drugs in huge quantities.  When they were not skirmishing with government security forces, they were forcing their will on communities with fewer gunmen.

Santiago’s outfit represents a kind of evolution on the bog standard Survivalist. Her people are every bit as prepared to take advantage of their fellows, but they differ in reconciliation to martial discipline. The Holnists played at war for the sake of gratifying both their vanities and their appetites. The Spartans have established a strict martial framework for “right living” in order to maintain a certain minimum level of vigilance, fitness, cohesion, and capability that they believe will be essential to long-term survival of the species. Much of the Spartan player’s job in game terms will be sorting the Spartan wheat from the Holnist/Survivalist chaff.


Quote from: JarlWolf
Bonuses would be increased terraforming speed, 1+ support due to communal supports and adaptive citizens, 20% defence bonus. Free perimeter defence.

So far, so good.
 
Quote from: JarlWolf
Disadvantages would include, -2 Planet due to their destructive attitude to the local wildlife, -1 police due to rather independent communities and the need for people's security, as they will demand protection.
I can’t honestly see a malus to Planet. Perhaps structures and units would be more costly? I could certainly see negative modifiers to Industry and Growth, reflecting the Hunters’ semi-nomadic lifestyle.
 
Quote from: JarlWolf
I imagine this faction as frontier survivors who are concerned with survival, building community. They would likely have aversion to green as its prohibitive of their expansion. They would would have no real preferences of what they like as they are willing to adopt any system, maybe power if you wish to choose.

As for how aggressive they are, normal. They aren't overly aggressive, aggression is tool to be used wisely.

I think they’d be more likely to be in tune with Planet than any faction other than Deidre’s.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Human Ascendancy is more focused on genetics, it is very much like Sigmas Genearch faction. Faction seems fairly fine as it stands, it varies from the blind pursuit of knowledge and instead focuses on human physiological perfection. Should not grow heavy in population, should be very controlling of population growth and taking great care for developing human fetus and growth of population and traits found. Very rigorous observation, may even be police state. Maybe not as authoritarian in other matters, however and quite liberal. Brave new world inference. 

If anything, it is much like Yang's hive, except instead of social engineering experimentation, it is defining the best physiological development for humans.
I completely agree. Your proposed bonuses and maluses look good, too. I’d say, however, that the preference is Power, not Eudaimonic.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Estado Novo should use terms carefully more. Fascism is not intentionally made in mind with caste system, as fascism is to promote a group identity and conformity to serve a leadership, exclusive to others outside their own group. Society is fine, but should go into detail why they cling to tradition so much and revert to feudalistic castes. What is reason they did this? What prompted this on Chiron?
I think the idea is that settlement is being equate with a new Dark Age. The original storyline was that the Unity XO, a Portuguese named Francisco D’Almeida, theorized that there should be a direct correlation between an individual’s potential contribution to a future colony and his enjoyment of its fruits. (This idea is further reflected in the idea that the upper castes are also subject to various social controls that help sustain the born aristocracy, whereas those with less significant duties are allowed to run amok as they will.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Issues with the Dreamers of Chiron is you seem to have many authoritarian factions.

I’m open to other options, although I must insist that the Dreamers were intended to be run in part by a genius businessman. There is an element of authoritarianism to it.

The thrill seekers option is a good one, but I think that would be only the general means of recruitment. Presumably, Cobb would have his own retainers standing by to supplement the ranks.

Please do come up with separate faction ideas. I’m very open.

With respect to socialism/communism, I do intend to explore (A) the potential counter-coup that might have kept the Soviets in the running a few more years, at least; and (B) a scenario in which either true monarchy or Communist rule are restored over Russia, leading to problems for the Western allies.
"There's another old saying, Senator. Don't piss down my back and tell me it rains." - Julius Augustus Caesar, attrib.

 

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