Oceanic Pack - 7 Aquatic factions [input requested]

[Buster's Uncle]

For the leaderhead?  I don't see why.  You want vivid personality/imagery showing in things like that - subtlety fine, but not required.

[Sigma]

I like the essence of the quote, but I think it should focus on the incomprehensible complexity of progressive society, since it's not as if the world was any more peaceful in the feudal era, which is exactly what Colton is promoting. Also I feel like an American would be the last person to promote monarchical government. The Seastead leader should be American, this guy should be British (since there is no British figurehead in the existing SMACX factions) or at the very least European.

How about for the quote:

"When iron and clay are mixed, the iron takes on none of the clay's flexibility, nor does the clay gain strength from the iron. In this manner, the inevitable end of Progressivism is the erosion of the State's authority at its very foundations. With the delineation of Power clouded by misguided ideologies, citizens no longer understand the structure of their government, and when understanding fails, so too does reason and loyalty. To avoid the mistakes of Earth, we must forge an iron State, one that will shatter, and not be shattered in return."

[Buster's Uncle]

Developer's $25B Underwater City Will Totally Happen, Honest
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=13797.0

Stuff we can use in the pictures, I should think...

[ete]

@BU: Okay. Do you have any vaguely modern looking kings available in your selection? I looked through but could not find any, may be missing something though. And those are cool, but all quite underwater and I don't think we have any underwater factions coming along here.

@Sigma: hmm, you're right that it would be good to include something about complexity, but given that a lot of people who'll come across this will have zero or near zero knowledge of NRx, I'd like to lay out as much of the background reasoning as can plausibly fit into the quote. Your quote is good, and captures a relevant feeling/part of movement, but I think adapting mine to include some stuff about complexity would work better?

I'd like to include that in a pack of quotes to go with the factions though.

For reference, I was mostly basing that quote off stuff from http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html

(click to show/hide)

The basic idea of formalism is just that the main problem in human affairs is violence. The goal is to design a way for humans to interact, on a planet of remarkably limited size, without violence.

Especially organized violence. Next to organized human-on-human violence, a good formalist believes, all other problems - Poverty, Global Warming, Moral Decay, etc, etc, etc - are basically insignificant. Perhaps once we get rid of violence we can worry a little about Moral Decay, but given that organized violence killed a couple of hundred million people in the last century, whereas Moral Decay gave us "American Idol," I think the priorities are pretty clear.

The key is to look at this not as a moral problem, but as an engineering problem. Any solution that solves the problem is acceptable. Any solution that does not solve the problem is not acceptable.

I'm okay with switching to british, though some monarchist neoreactionaries are american I think? And as a brit.. very few people here care much about the royals in anything more than a vaguely patriotic way. They're certainly a very, very long way from the kind of figure neoreactionaries seem to want.

Edit: New version of quote:

What has progressivism brought us? Decades of violence, with man turning on
man, tearing down his own creations with ever more powerful tools of harm, and
finally bringing an apparent end to the planet of our birth. When humans
given certain forms of freedom they use it for destructive ends. Time and
time again the complex progressive "fair" systems have been proven to not
work for people; they are unnatural, wrongheaded, and exploitable. If
we are to avoid the mistakes of Earth's decay and catastrophic fall
we must return to stable and well-organized society which acknowledges the
very real differences between individuals, and has an appropriate place
for all.

Only as a society united behind an absolute leader can we forge an island
of stability and safety on this hostile world.
 ^
 ^        —King Colton I,
 ^           “Address to subjects”

[Sigma]

@Sigma: hmm, you're right that it would be good to include something about complexity, but given that a lot of people who'll come across this will have zero or near zero knowledge of NRx, I'd like to lay out as much of the background reasoning as can plausibly fit into the quote. Your quote is good, and captures a relevant feeling/part of movement, but I think adapting mine to include some stuff about complexity would work better?

I'd like to include that in a pack of quotes to go with the factions though.

For reference, I was mostly basing that quote off stuff from http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html

(click to show/hide)

The basic idea of formalism is just that the main problem in human affairs is violence. The goal is to design a way for humans to interact, on a planet of remarkably limited size, without violence.

Especially organized violence. Next to organized human-on-human violence, a good formalist believes, all other problems - Poverty, Global Warming, Moral Decay, etc, etc, etc - are basically insignificant. Perhaps once we get rid of violence we can worry a little about Moral Decay, but given that organized violence killed a couple of hundred million people in the last century, whereas Moral Decay gave us "American Idol," I think the priorities are pretty clear.

The key is to look at this not as a moral problem, but as an engineering problem. Any solution that solves the problem is acceptable. Any solution that does not solve the problem is not acceptable.

I'm okay with switching to british, though some monarchist neoreactionaries are american I think? And as a brit.. very few people here care much about the royals in anything more than a vaguely patriotic way. They're certainly a very, very long way from the kind of figure neoreactionaries seem to want.

Fair point, though as an American I've not heard about any Monarchist neoreactionaries in this country. Maybe make him Greek (reflecting the current trend in Greece of young radicals embracing fascist ideologies), which would also allow him to take on the mantle of a wise Philosopher King to couch his outright despotism.

You obviously know more about the ideology than I do, so I'll leave the specifics of the quotes and such to you 

[ete]

Greek is a good idea. And I don't really know much, just opened a bunch of introductions and skimmed the ones which seemed promising+have vaguely heard about them for a while. I guess I did read http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/ and http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/ but that's just because I read all of SSC.

[Sigma]

I'm still trying to reconcile the Green Builders and the Covenant, and I'm not 100% sure that they will work together as we have conceived so far, in a mechanical way. Narratively it's perfect-- one faction believes that Planet's native life is a resource that can be tapped, and seeks to live in harmony with it in order to preserve that resource, while the other faction believes that Planet is a powerful and fear inspiring force of nature, and that they must essentially submit to its will to triumph. Meanwhile, the Armada believes the same thing, except that they want to subjugate that force and use it for their own ends. The three factions actually form an excellent ideological trifecta.

So we have the Green Builders, who have learned how to use the Fungus in an industrial capacity. They come equipped with manufacturing know-how (+Industry), but little Military experience (-Morale or -Support). The problem is that both of these are counterproductive to the goal of having them be Native Builders, because Natives can never be Clean (thus alleviating their Support problems) and Morale hurts Psi combat more than conventional combat. And as you said, Natives are not exactly cheap to build. So I don't know if the Green Builders being based around Native life is mechanically sound. Of course we can always change their penalties around.

[Yitzi]

So we have the Green Builders, who have learned how to use the Fungus in an industrial capacity. They come equipped with manufacturing know-how (+Industry), but little Military experience (-Morale or -Support). The problem is that both of these are counterproductive to the goal of having them be Native Builders, because Natives can never be Clean (thus alleviating their Support problems) and Morale hurts Psi combat more than conventional combat. And as you said, Natives are not exactly cheap to build. So I don't know if the Green Builders being based around Native life is mechanically sound. Of course we can always change their penalties around.

While morale is more important to psi combat, -MORALE does not affect your use of native life at all (native units are not affected by MORALE.)  As for Support, while native units cannot be Clean, they automatically function as Clean while in fungus, and of course native life captured far enough away from your bases has no home base and might as well be Clean (though that's not really that builder-based).

As for native units being expensive, you might want to consider free brood pits.

[ete]

hm.. I think the green builders should fairly well mechanically using -offense and -defense as an alternative to morale or support penalties (edit: though based on what Yitzi says, those penalties could still work)? The issue is that leaves the Covenant as pretty bland, since having two native factions with double conventional combat penalties is.. too much similarity.

How about giving the Covenant free Nerve Gas Pods? Then you have a pretty different setup mechanically:
CotD has captured natives alongside boosted human shock troops which make everyone want to kill them, fitting with the whole worshiping dark gods thing, and they even flood everywhere if they do it enough like their war is powering their god. I like that, and it gives them something new+distinct+fitting.

GBs have constructed native life with a Psi bonus and very little if any conventional troops due to combat penalties, with humans staying at home.

We could even start the Cult with HEC for immediate Nerve Gas, it's a level 2 tech, but it's not a super important one. Probably drop the +Probe, that's been done before? Same for Brood Pit, that firs green builders better anyway.

[Sigma]

As for Support, while native units cannot be Clean, they automatically function as Clean while in fungus

I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS A THING.

It must be a testament to how I almost never build native units, but I've never, ever noticed that this happens. What an awesome feature.

[ete]

Updated second post with current thoughts on each faction. We're making good progress, a good chunk of five factions in only a day!

[Buster's Uncle]

I don't have any royal leaderheads on hand, no - but the great thing about that is that the King of X has a lot of official portraits made; you won't have a lot of trouble googling up something that suits you.  You might try the last King of Spain, Juan Carlos.

[Sigma]

hm.. I think the green builders should fairly well mechanically using -offense and -defense as an alternative to morale or support penalties (edit: though based on what Yitzi says, those penalties could still work)? The issue is that leaves the Covenant as pretty bland, since having two native factions with double conventional combat penalties is.. too much similarity.

How about giving the Covenant free Nerve Gas Pods? Then you have a pretty different setup mechanically:
CotD has captured natives alongside boosted human shock troops which make everyone want to kill them, fitting with the whole worshiping dark gods thing, and they even flood everywhere if they do it enough like their war is powering their god. I like that, and it gives them something new+distinct+fitting.

GBs have constructed native life with a Psi bonus and very little if any conventional troops due to combat penalties, with humans staying at home.

We could even start the Cult with HEC for immediate Nerve Gas, it's a level 2 tech, but it's not a super important one. Probably drop the +Probe, that's been done before? Same for Brood Pit, that firs green builders better anyway.

So, wouldn't this mean that the Covenant has a permanent +100% Offense, but with the penalty that they would pretty much experience permanent sanctions provided that the UN Charter remains in effect? That's an interesting mechanic which could work if it was coupled with another penalty (maybe negative Interest, for Energy sacrificed to Planet).

[ete]

I don't have any royal leaderheads on hand, no - but the great thing about that is that the King of X has a lot of official portraits made; you won't have a lot of trouble googling up something that suits you.  You might try the last King of Spain, Juan Carlos.

Good tip. looks good to me, thoughts?

So, wouldn't this mean that the Covenant has a permanent +100% Offense, but with the penalty that they would pretty much experience permanent sanctions provided that the UN Charter remains in effect? That's an interesting mechanic which could work if it was coupled with another penalty (maybe negative Interest, for Energy sacrificed to Planet).

An optional +50% that also limits their ability to use captured bases. But, yes, either they forgo use of one of their biggest bonuses, get the UN Charter revoked, or everyone hates them a lot.

I'm considering a 0.5 vote multiplier and a smallish drone penalty (5?) as extra penalties? Negative energy interest is possible, but maybe not that fitting? How would you sacrifice energy to planet? - Econ and/or -Growth are also on the to consider pile.

[Buster's Uncle]

I think that shot won't need a lot of processing at all.  I reckon I'll try a pretty wide shot for the datalinks portrait and mostly just his head for the rest.  Stay tuned.