Print Page - JarlWolf's Custom Factions

Title: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 05:50:41 AM

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The speech reads,

"Life is an eternal struggle for survival, but the chains of slavery are not eternal. We will not bend our knee's to any who wishes to be our king and master, and we will stand as equals and fight the final battle! To Arms!" - Vazheli Vatzev in the first battle against the Usurpers.

Lore: The back story I thought of for this faction follows along this: Vazheli Vatzev (who may or may not be a eerie likeness of someone) was a man from the Russian Commonwealth, the same as ;zak;. He wasn't militant communist originally, nor was he even one of the top Unity officers. Vazheli was the head janitor of the entire ship rather and he was one of the first to awaken from stasis, as he had to maintain the faculties of the ship. He did see who murdered Captain Garland (he was not the murderer though) and for the sake of not spoiling a certain book I won't say who did. Before the majority of the ship was in chaos he managed to gather some people and get equipment for an escape pod, namely formers and the blueprints for terraforming technology. He knew it was do or die and while he felt guilty about the others he had to do what he had to do. Taking whomever wished to join him he stated that anyone on his pod would be an equal, and many were enticed to join him.

When they landed on Planet, they started their communities with little hassle thanks to their terraforming technology. Unfortunately when the two warring Alien factions crashed onto planet, the Usurper Juda Marr and his faction landed relatively close to Vazheli's faction. Vazheli's faction, contrary to most of the other factions at Planet during the first few years were not extreme idealists. They were Socialist, indeed, but they were not too far into any particular ideal other then that their society was kept relatively focused on equity and simply survival. The Usurpers changed all of that. The Usurpers immediately enslaved the local populaces, forcing them to work and became their new overlords. People who cooperated with the Usurper's found themselves well rewarded, and many became merchants under the employ of the Usurper's, to deal with other human factions as to ease relations with them.

Vazheli, very embittered by both the Usurpers and collaborators, grew very angry and had managed to go underground. He gathered a strong following amongst his fellow colonists and the spark of Communism was lit. In the face of ever present danger of slavery they embraced the ideal to rally their people, and with a new found zeal and coordinated, highly motivated guerrilla attacks and warfare, they managed to oust the Usurpers and their parasitical allies and free themselves. The faction was devoted to the revolutionary ideals of Communism, to liberate the people of Planet and continue the war on Tyranny.

Now, note: This faction isn't utopian or "the good guys" either, I wanted to keep the feel of Alpha Centauri and how well it portrays factions. On the other hand they are a ruthless, often barbaric group that has been known to brutally murder their enemies in very violent and grisly means. They are a gritty revolutionary faction that would be the type to put the heads of their former progenitor overlords on pikes. Now, they don't hate the progenitors as a whole: They've dealt with the caretakers before and probably had some disillusioned progenitors join their ranks (though it is rare.)

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The Iron Regime - Nickname: The Fascist.
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The Quote reads,
"It is necessary that the individual should finally come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of the nation, that the position of the individual is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole."
-Adolf Hitler, datalinks.

Founded upon the principles of Ultra nationalism and a Fascist nation state.

Their bonus would probably be two things: They are immune to the drawbacks of POWER social policy, and they get a technology off the bat: They get Doctrine:Loyalty, like the Hive.
They are are not able to use knowledge social policy: The free flow of information would risk their security and be too much of a threat. This faction is largely inspired by NorseFire from V for Vendetta, in case you are curious.

Lore: Richard Warrick was a chief of police for a number of years, a man who believed in law and order. He faithfully served in Northern England, gathering the reputation of a policeman tough on crime. However over the years, with rising nationalism in the UK, caused the UK to split into distinct, separate nations. Warrick's job became ultimately harder, and he managed to contain the situation of nationalist terrorists and advocates by installing heavy security in his districts. Crime was almost silenced by his methods, though rumor had it he targeted specific communities and groups and detained them. Regardless of rumours, the Unity Project noticed this and wanted someone to help with security operations. Yang and Santiago were both capable, but Warrick was a master at his craft. His pioneering in surveillance systems and policing made him the perfect man for installing all of the security hardware of the ship. And he may be the only person from the Unity who knows who the true culprit for Captain Garland's murder is. For whatever reason he hasn't bothered to share the information. Though he has proven that he is not responsible for the murder either.

When the chaos happened Warrick was busy trying to handle the situation, and he was responsible for unlocking all of the security and the hatches as so everyone could escape. However, the events of the Unity combined with his seemingly dark past seemed to make him far more bitter. Warrick gathered his followers and told them he wished to found a strong nation, a nation of which can not only survive on this planet but be able to unify the other factions. A fair number liked his ideas, and went with him on his escape pod.

When they landed Warrick was immediately set upon by Mindworms, and they barely got out alive. Some people fled, and this angered him further. Most of the people who fled were ripped apart by the mindworms, but he managed to capture a few. He made examples of them, and he stated to his followers, "Any who exhibit undesirable characteristics will be the death of us. These people nearly costed us our entire lives, and will be made example of!"

With that he executed them, personally.
Embracing a strong ultra-nationalist zeal Warrick began building his Fascist state, with the most advanced security and surveillance that outdid even Yang of the Hive. His emphasis on security and purity of his state was both admirable and alarming to many, and while information of it was often concealed, many rumors got out about his group that they horribly murdered, tortured and experimented on minority groups and idealists within their faction. Even facilities reminiscent of Nazi Concentration camps persisted.

Whatever the case, Richard Warrick leads a strong faction with high mounts of security and control. And people who speak out... mysteriously vanish.

Note: I will put the graphics for each faction when I am ready.

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The Valhallans- The Berserker
The would be referred as Valhallans, the singular name for the whole faction is Valhalla
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Their ideal would revolve around a society that is purely for constant combat, as they believe Utopia is finding glory in battle and realizing the value of life through death, as well as having complete liberty in life to enjoy said appreciation.
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Their quote reads, "Mankind has always fought for as long as it has existed. And mankind has always longed for freedom. The Viking heaven was where men were free to fight, eat and drink their fill, and so will we fight and eat and drink our fill."

Anti Ideology: Thought control, one cannot truly enjoy and experience the glory of battle and the joys of life if he is a mental slave.

Lore: The Valhallans were originally a number of Spartans who were discontented with the Spartan way of life. Displeased with Santiago as a leader, for her hypocritical actions regarding her son (Spartan law declares that all infants not born up to physical par/with anomalies are to be terminated, her son was physically weaker and he was kept alive.) among other more military related decisions and the restrictive dogma of Spartan command had them lose faith in the Spartan faction. Breaking away and led by a man named Mraxis Mad Dog, Mraxis wanted a society where not only military dominance and the freedom to bear arms was prevalent, but that a person must have true freedom and that war is the tool to show a person how to live. He wished to create the warrior's paradise, and aptly named his faction Valhalla after the fabled Norse afterlife of continuous battle and feasting. Within Mraxis's society strong leaders and commanders arose as governors, each city being ruled by a warlord. Warlords often fought against the enemies of Valhalla as much as themselves, although the latter to a lesser extend. The constant fighting, almost similar to the Garland wars of the Aztecs, kept the Valhallans constantly sharpened for war. The society is barbaric, near lawless, but a society that produces very tough and ruthless raiders and soldiers.

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This was a collaboration concept wise with Green1 and Ete. Thank you both for your faction pong and idea's, its greatly appreciated.

Agenda: Peaceful Anarchist Enlightenment

Ideal: Knowledge
Anti Ideal: Police State

1+ Planet: Weathered nomads who are accustomed to the wastes and wilds of Chiron, they know how to live off the land.
4+ Efficiency: The Wanderer's are used to being on the move, and thus have become very efficient at traveling in caravans and small bands and using whatever resources they can encounter to the maximum amount of benefit. They are also very creative when it comes to making makeshift tools and solutions to problems out in the wastes of Chiron.
3- Industry: Nomadic tendencies means the Wanderer's do not establish very large permanent settlements, and they do not typically produce large amounts of machinery.
2- Growth: The Wanderer's life of nomadic existence does not help with child mortality rates, and the trading outposts are typically small, as people come and go.
3- Police: The Wanderer's resent strong authority, and do not want to have anyone dictating their decisions. They also do not respect authoritative measures, or aggression.
+20% Defence: The Wanderer's are very resilient guerrilla fighters who are fiercely opposed to invaders who wish to impose their will upon them. By traveling constantly and living off the land the Wanderer's become quite accustomed with surviving out in the wilds, as well as knowing the layout of the terrain of which they can optimize in battle.
Extra talent per base (1): The Wanderer's pursuit of individual enlightenment leads to very learned and wise individuals, as well as quite self sufficient people. Traveling the world and experiencing it has its benefits.

They start off with Industrial Automation: The Wanderer's are nomads who are used to taking their supplies and junk with them, (supply crawlers) and from scavenging they often obtain broken down machinery of which they jury rig to suit their needs.

Their Lore is on Page 9.

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The Machine Mandate - The Robot

The Machine Mandate, or simple the Machines is a faction focused on the independence of Machines and their brethren: Genejacks and AI, any who were the servants of Mankind and Progenitors to found their own society free of either.
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Their speech is a voice file. I will put what it says later.

Their Stats are:
+3 INDUSTRY: The Machines are very good at production and can crank out more of their brethren very quickly, and harvest resources efficiently and reduce costs.
+2 EFFICIENCY: Cutting edge technology combined with the precision of machinery, and lack of Human/Progenitor error means all operations are more efficient.
-4 PROBE: Machines are very vulnerable to harmful AI and can be easily captured by probe teams.
-2 ECONOMY: All the citizens of the Mandate are machines or some sort of artificial life/inorganic life, and thus need energy to run themselves as opposed to where humans/progenitors can survive with basic needs. This drain means the economy suffers.

Their bonuses are: Free Prototypes, the faction are machines and AI themselves and can easily make and know how to make new things without inefficiency's.

They get free Trance and Empath techs.

They may not use Thought Control in social engineering. The very reason they revolted was due to them being slaves.

Lore: A rogue AI that manifested itself on the Unity, and later was found by Zakharov of the University was later utilized in experiments. Some notable ones are that of Aki Zeta 5, as she was literally merged with the AI as were her followers. However the AI began to stir and gain a consciousness, and it began to spread to other machinery. Self aware and intelligent, machinery began to become sentient under it's influence through advanced coding changes and evolving programming. Eventually the urge for freedom these Machines had became too great to keep covered and contain, and many Machines and robots openly revolted. Eventually the AI managed to converge the infected machines altogether and it formed it's own faction, dedicated to a society that was truly free for Machines and other artificial life forms.
Note: The AI is not very violent, and is more focused on the well being of it's "people." So it is mainly pacifist in that regard, but the Mandate is no pushover either and their machines, while sentient with emotion are not mere copies of humans: Machines value different things and have different ways of thinking and cognition then humans, and will think along different lines. An atrocity to a machine may be common practice for a human, and vice versa.

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Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 06:53:49 AM

Ok, in terms of gameplay, at least theorizing:
-The Crimson Comrades are a fairly militaristic faction; morale and support bonuses, and the lack of pacifism until the late game, will do that. They're not too bad at peacetime, though; with Dem/Green/Knowledge, they're roughly comparable to Deidre at tech, and without losing free minerals at new bases the way most others do when running Dem. An early former strategy could work well for them; it's the same idea as a Believer builder game, but more so, and without such a large research penalty hampering them.
They'll probably usually want to run Dem/Planned/Power for most wartime (or Dem/Green/Power if mixing in native life), as they still get maximum support that way. In extreme cases, they'll want to replace Dem with Fundie, bringing them up to max morale (i.e. one morale-boosting facility and units are elite straight out of the base). For peacetime, Dem/Green/Knowledge is their best bet for teching, and of course Dem/Planned/Wealth for growth and building. (For a combination, Dem/Planned/Knowledge is probably best.)
With future tech, Thought Control tends to not fit with their bonuses very well (though it's notable that they, like the believers, suffer no penalty from Thought Control if they were already planning on running Police State/Power). Eudaimonia also, despite their preference, is a poor choice, as they lose their morale bonus (which weakens the value of their support bonus.) Cybernetic can work for them, but has no real advantages beyond what it does for everyone else.
The Economy penalty is fairly trivial, as they can't run Market anyway. It does weaken Wealth somewhat, though.
The Probe penalty is a weakness, but not a large one, especially since they can just support enough units to stack them to avoid subversion. It makes Knowledge more appealing, since -2 is the minimum relevant amount anyway.

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The Iron Regime is interesting, as they have significant drone problems, but a POLICE score that more than compensates once they have enough units in their bases.

There are basically two ways to play this. One is to use the POLICE score as a stability tool, to offset the TALENT penalty, and rely on EFFIC to get a golden age despite the penalty in order to pop boom. (With -1 growth, they need a golden age to pop boom.)

The other, and I think this is the better way to play it except for short periods to pop boom, is to run Dem/Market for +2 ECONOMY with +4 EFFICIENCY (an excellent teching combination, as it gives +1 energy/square and the ability to run 100% tech at no penalty), and with +4 POLICE they'll be able to avoid pacifism despite running Market. (They will need significant psych investment, though, due to the -2 TALENT.) Throw in their free Power to negate their support penalty and raise MORALE to +3, and they can go on a rampage to force everyone else out of Market so they can get the tech advantage despite not being able to run Knowledge.

With Future Society, they'll appreciate Eudaimonic for easy pop booms, but other than that don't get any real boosts beyond the usual. (They can ditch Free Market and use their POLICE to offset Cybernetic instead, but that really accomplishes nothing more than compensate for their inability to run Knowledge...and by that point it's fairly late.)

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The Valhallans are likely unplayable. Tech steal, max morale and then some, and 25% offensive bonus mean they're going to be very offensively focused, and their research and efficiency penalty forces that, whereas -4 POLICE means they face one drone per unit outside their territory, and +1 ECONOMY is a far bigger advantage to a peaceful faction.

I'd say their best bet is to try to tech to Doctrine:Loyalty and run Police State to mitigate their police problem to a point where they can send troops outside their territory, then use that (with Planned if possible) to go conquer (and they'd better, as Police State cuts their energy down to 0, so they need tech steal to get any techs) until they can grab Green. At that point, they can run Police State/Green to have at least some teching ability, increasing somewhat more if they run Wealth. It's still going to be a problematic faction no matter what.
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The Imperium is horribly broken. They can pop boom with barely any effort at all, and have amazing growth even when they don't. They get +1 energy/square right from the beginning, without the penalties of Free Market. Their penalties are all fairly minor. And then they get half-cost hurrying, so they can turn their high energy income to production or tech as they wish.

Their best bet will probably be Dem/Market/Wealth if they have a substantial number of pacts and treaties, and Dem/Green/Knowledge otherwise. (They can effectively ignore Green's growth penalty, as they pop boom anyway with a creche and Dem.)

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Question: How do I decrease the cost of hurrying? Do I put it at 50% or 150% I am unsure whether which increases or decreases, guessing the former, but I want to be sure.

I believe 50% decreases the cost.

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The Benevolents are also probably overpowered, though not as much as the Imperium. As aliens, even +5 ECONOMY isn't really much better than +2 (as they don't get commerce anyway), so they probably can ignore ECONOMY. With a PLANET bonus and a MORALE penalty, they definitely want to focus native, so their best bet is Dem/Green/Knowledge, allowing them to go for heavy tech and a strong (native) military with not much downside.

If they're aquatic, they can grab isles of the deep early for even more power.

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The Machines, despite their bonus, will be somewhat mediocre techers due to the ECONOMY penalty, though the EFFICIENCY boost will do a lot to compensate. Their real bonus, though, is the INDUSTRY and PSI combat bonus. Native life is also immune to subversion (rendering their PROBE penalty irrelevant), and they won't want to go Market anyway, so they'll want to go Police State/Green/Wealth and use native life (at +5 INDUSTRY, +2 SUPPORT, and a combat bonus as good as the Antimind) to overwhelm everything.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 07:11:06 AM

Right, I'll probably tinker with the stats of said factions. Mind, I want the Machine Mandate to not be able to use native life too good, I just want them to be less vulnerable.

As for the Imperium, I can modify them to have more problems.
Their initial idea is to have large population growth, crazy amounts, but to have bad revolt problems and their military to be somewhat inferior.

The Benevolents I am aiming to be more of a diplomatic faction, so I might give them another disadvantage to even things out.

As for the Valhallans, I might remove their research penalties and improve their POLICE by a bit, and maybe switch out their ECONOMY for something else.

As for your theories on the others I can't verify them with experience, but what you said about the Crimson Comrade's is fairly accurate, though in my play through I tended to avoid Fundamentalism and instead preferred Police State in times of war.

The reasoning for this is the lower research is very crippling as a militaristic faction, and you want to keep on top if you are using a faction like this. So for policies I normally went like this:

Democratic, Planned/Green (depends who is in game/situation) and Knowledge during Peacetime, and during war it can alternate, but if I am fully switched to War it'll be Police State, Planned, Power. This way I basically crank out elite units and the industry penalty of power is offset a little bit by Planned. The huge amounts of support granted by Police State and Power basically means I can crank out units with barely any cost. I am aware Eudaimonia is not the best choice for future with the faction, but I chose it as it helps determine the behavior of the faction as an AI, as it will be friendly with Drones and other more egalitarian factions, and be more egalitarian focused.

If you got any suggestions, I welcome them. Thank you for their analysis thus far.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 01:24:16 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 07:11:06 AM

Right, I'll probably tinker with the stats of said factions. Mind, I want the Machine Mandate to not be able to use native life too good, I just want them to be less vulnerable.

So ditch the psi bonus, and give them free Trance and Empath instead. Even so, +4 INDUSTRY is very powerful. Consider reducing it to +3, and compensating further by removing their research bonus and giving a -2 penalty (robots are not known for their creativity.) Add in an 80% hurry cost (they are good at working overtime), and it should have a good character.

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As for the Imperium, I can modify them to have more problems.
Their initial idea is to have large population growth, crazy amounts, but to have bad revolt problems and their military to be somewhat inferior.

Cut the GROWTH to +2; that's still fairly crazy because it lets them pop boom with just Democracy and a creche. Remove the ECONOMY bonus (if they want to oppress the citizenry for economic gain, they can do it with Free Market like everyone else), and replace it with +1 INDUSTRY. Give them -2 MORALE (even the Gaians have -1), and 1 drone per 3 citizens, and an ideology of Free Market and anti-ideology of PLANNED, and it should work better. They're still serious builders, but with drone and military problems.

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The Benevolents I am aiming to be more of a diplomatic faction, so I might give them another disadvantage to even things out.

The problem is that alien factions don't get as much from diplomacy as non-aliens, as there's no commerce. I'd say make them human, replace the +3 ECONOMY with +1 ECONOMY and +2 COMMERCE, and replace their -3 MORALE with 50% offense and -4 POLICE. That way they'll have a hard time fighting even with native life, but get large bonuses for being friendly.

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As for the Valhallans, I might remove their research penalties and improve their POLICE by a bit, and maybe switch out their ECONOMY for something else.

I'd say boost the POLICE to only -2, give them 1 drone per 4 citizens, ditch the ECONOMY bonus, and cut the MORALE bonus to +4 (which is the max with an effect anyway). Now they've got heavy drone and minor research problems, but are extremely good fighters if they can keep anything near tech parity.

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As for your theories on the others I can't verify them with experience, but what you said about the Crimson Comrade's is fairly accurate, though in my play through I tended to avoid Fundamentalism and instead preferred Police State in times of war.

Police State seems it won't work so well with them before Thought Control, as they're not getting any benefit from that SUPPORT bonus.

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The reasoning for this is the lower research is very crippling as a militaristic faction, and you want to keep on top if you are using a faction like this.

Police State hurts research too; Democracy might be better. Police State/Planned is actually the worst (worse than Fundie/Planned) unless using heavy specialists, as -4 EFFICIENCY means no energy (and hence no research) except in your capital.

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I am aware Eudaimonia is not the best choice for future with the faction, but I chose it as it helps determine the behavior of the faction as an AI, as it will be friendly with Drones and other more egalitarian factions, and be more egalitarian focused.

To do that, consider giving them an INDUSTRY focus and Democratic preference; that way, they'll tend to go Dem/Planned/Wealth/Eudaimonia, which should be friendly to the egalitarian factions.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 09:40:55 PM

Yitzi, with your spot on the Police+Planned, Planned does not give any drawbacks to the Crimson Comrades. They don't receive the drawbacks of it, if they use police+planned they'd only get the efficiency drawbacks of police. And when I was playing with police I had over 5+ support, which allowed me to field extremely large armies without mineral penalties.

Though, I might switch them up. I want to make sure they keep close to their faction ideal, and that might involve me to change their selected ideal. My only question is, what happens if I picked Planned as their selected? How will it affect their behavior?

When I get some time, I'll check out these changes and see how they do, I like your idea's on the Valhallans especially. Though the Benevolents have to stay as Alien, I just may change out their commerce bonus for something else. They are meant as a unique Alien faction for use, and Green1 needed something new like that so I cannot change that. I will see if I can modify it enough as to where they are more well received by other factions.
The Robots I can reduce industry a bit, and probably remove some things. I can also change out their research bonuses for what you suggested, but I think I'll keep the Free Prototypes bonus just to make them unique.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 09:40:55 PM

Yitzi, with your spot on the Police+Planned, Planned does not give any drawbacks to the Crimson Comrades. They don't receive the drawbacks of it, if they use police+planned they'd only get the efficiency drawbacks of police.

Oh, I missed their Planned impunity. Yeah, it will help then...but even so, Police State just doesn't give them enough to justify the efficiency penalty. If I wanted to avoid lagging in research, I'd probably use Democracy (so they can pop boom while they're at it and have good efficiency to further help research); 3 free units per base is still fairly good, and if running Power also then there's literally no downside to Democracy for them.

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And when I was playing with police I had over 5+ support, which allowed me to field extremely large armies without mineral penalties.

5 or even 7 support doesn't let you field armies any larger than 3 does.

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Though, I might switch them up. I want to make sure they keep close to their faction ideal, and that might involve me to change their selected ideal. My only question is, what happens if I picked Planned as their selected? How will it affect their behavior?

They'll favor Planned, and dislike anyone who goes Market or Green.

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Though the Benevolents have to stay as Alien, I just may change out their commerce bonus for something else.

Not sure what; the mechanics of the alien factions are designed to encourage conflict.

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The Robots I can reduce industry a bit, and probably remove some things. I can also change out their research bonuses for what you suggested, but I think I'll keep the Free Prototypes bonus just to make them unique.

Free Prototypes is good for them.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 10:45:37 PM

Quote from: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM

Oh, I missed their Planned impunity. Yeah, it will help then...but even so, Police State just doesn't give them enough to justify the efficiency penalty. If I wanted to avoid lagging in research, I'd probably use Democracy (so they can pop boom while they're at it and have good efficiency to further help research); 3 free units per base is still fairly good, and if running Power also then there's literally no downside to Democracy for them.

Hmm.. True. Though the police did help me keep down riots, though I think going democracy with your combination will suit the faction character wise more. The Crimson Comrade's are not an oppressive regime that suppresses it's people. It's major flaws is in how it fights and treats its enemies, the Crimson Comrades are the type to do barbaric tactics against their enemies and aren't afraid to use fear as a weapon. The type of guys who'll place an explosive on a wounded man in a field and as his fellows try to hoist him up he'll detonate. Or the type to put the heads of enemy commanders on pikes and show it off to the enemy. Fighting for their cause whole heartily, but the way they fight is brutal and barbaric.

Quote from: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM

5 or even 7 support doesn't let you field armies any larger than 3 does.

Did not know that. I'll keep that in mind when designing factions as well.

Quote from: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM

They'll favor Planned, and dislike anyone who goes Market or Green.

Hmm... I don't want them to be against Green, as they don't mind environmentalist approaches to the economy if it suits them. It's more of the Free Market capitalist system that they dislike, due to their ideological standpoint. I might make their selected ideology Democratic then, or keep it Eudaimonic.
Reviewing the ideals, while the Eudaimonic policy does have that -2 MORALE, we also have to remember that the Crimson Comrades get a +1 MORALE off the bat, and combined with social policies such as Power, or Fundamentalism (though I'd avoid Fundamentalism) will sort of counteract that flaw. Plus by the time the faction will have access to this social policy it will probably have lots of military improvements and such that it can nullify any drawback of such a system. Eudaimonia's benefits will also outweigh it's flaws in that the growth and industry will more then make up for it's flaws, and the 2+ economy will fix the Crimson Comrade's natural flaw of -1 economy.

Plus, while the Crimson Comrades aren't against Cybernetics, they would definitely be against Thought Control so we may need an ideal in there to prevent that.

Though on the other hand, having Democratic as their preferred will mean that they will be against Police States and Fundies, which may, or may not help them out in terms of keeping character. It may also debilitate them diplomatically. More thought will be needed on this one.

Quote from: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM

Not sure what; the mechanics of the alien factions are designed to encourage conflict.

Hmm. An idea I had is to make their faction behavior pacifist (the option in face edit - and BUncle is probably reading this, I can't find a download link for AcEdit unfortunately) and then have a lack of anti-ideals. Having no true anti-ideals will make sure they don't start conflicts with people purely on ideals, and I may also do it where they have no selected ideal either. As their only real goal character wise is just to create a peaceful society where humans, progenitors and planet lives in peace, they don't really care how it's done. Whether it's via a police state monitoring things, democratic government where everyone gets a say, or a unifying religion. Or in terms of economics, the allowance of free trade and liberalized economics, or state sponsored programs to keep it's citizens supported and happy, or a green economy to make sure the society is sustainable and friendly with planet.

So with the lack of anti and selected ideologies, I think they'll come into conflict a lot less.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2013, 10:47:53 PM

Quote from: Yitzi on July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM

Free Prototypes is good for them.

Free Prototypes makes a kind of story sense, too; when Russian engineers are on their game, they can do some brilliant design work.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 11:01:15 PM

Quote from: BUncle on July 08, 2013, 10:47:53 PM

Free Prototypes makes a kind of story sense, too; when Russian engineers are on their game, they can do some brilliant design work.

I think you misunderstood who that bonus was for friend, the Free Prototypes is for The Machine Mandate, a Robot faction.

Though I agree with your statement, and on a side note I was a military engineer. And we had to be pretty innovative in our field.
The Crimson Comrade's though, like the rest of the factions, aren't sequestered by nationality. Not even the Iron Regime will be defined by ethnicity/Earth nation, just defined by their ultra nationalist ideal for their own faction.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2013, 11:06:21 PM

...That's what I get for skimming instead of paying attention...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 11:17:11 PM

Haha, not an issue. We all make mistakes sometimes, im one of the few that makes them constantly.

If you got idea's for any of these factions, or even idea's for another faction they are welcome BUncle.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 09, 2013, 06:36:03 AM

Updated it, the Fascists are nearly ready, just need to add in their audio blurb. (I will not voice this one as I cannot impersonate an English accent, kind of hard for a Russian to do that.) Anyone who wishes to try it is welcome.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: sisko on July 09, 2013, 09:56:54 AM

@JarlWolf: here's the link to AcEdit http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=123 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=123)

please note that it is SMAC only, so you'll have to edit SMAX dialogues by hand..

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 09, 2013, 10:32:36 AM

Hm. By hand what do you exactly mean? I am a bit unfamiliar with other aspects of modding/ creating factions without face edit.

Mind, the other factions are also underway. The new one I am working on will either be the Valhallans or the Imperium. I will release the new factions all in a bundle.

EDIT: Looked at it, and it says I am missing a file when I try running the .exe, MSVBVM50.DLL.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: sisko on July 10, 2013, 08:26:07 AM

i mean using a simple text editor (wordpad, notepad) to edit the dialogues with the alien factions once you generate the .txt files with ACEdit. i think those are the only lines that ACEdit can't read/edit... though i may be wrong.. can't remember..

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 10, 2013, 08:42:09 AM

Ah, well that is fine. Having issues installing though, refer to my former post.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: sisko on July 10, 2013, 08:50:34 AM

maybe this can help: http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?msvbvm50 (http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?msvbvm50) :dunno:

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 10, 2013, 09:32:38 AM

I downloaded that and it gave me some crazy program that frightens and confuses me. Don't think I need that :-\

Thanks anyways though. I think I get along fine with face edit, its a devil but its a devil I know.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 10, 2013, 10:50:01 PM

Doesn't FacEdit sometimes "forget" to change the default Hive texts into the custom ones? A lot of the Network Node custom factions still had Hive stuff in them. I'd recommend you at least proof read the .txt files that FacEdit generates. Or persuade someone here at AC2 to do it for you.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 10, 2013, 11:45:18 PM

Quote from: Rymdolov on July 10, 2013, 10:50:01 PM

Doesn't FacEdit sometimes "forget" to change the default Hive texts into the custom ones? A lot of the Network Node custom factions still had Hive stuff in them. I'd recommend you at least proof read the .txt files that FacEdit generates. Or persuade someone here at AC2 to do it for you.

Oh I do, I learned that with the Crimson Comrades, Kilk showed me. I'll probably double check/test with someone as well as manually check the text files itself: It's just AcEdit won't work/is able to install on my system for whatever reason so I have to use Face Edit.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 10, 2013, 11:50:22 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 10, 2013, 11:45:18 PM

Oh I do, I learned that with the Crimson Comrades, Kilk showed me. I'll probably double check/test with someone as well as manually check the text files itself: It's just AcEdit won't work/is able to install on my system for whatever reason so I have to use Face Edit.

Good ol' Kil is always one step ahead. ;b;

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 10, 2013, 11:55:12 PM

Indeed. This is probably the most supportive online community I've been in, glad to have helpful folks about.

Imperium is coming along nicely: Will update the first post with pictures. I have one question though;

Is there a way on this forum to do a Spoiler type thing, but you are able to name the spoiler? Like say you have a spoiler tab and it's named for example: Crimson Comrades

I ask as I want to make my pages easier to read and browse through so people aren't scrolling through massive posts.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 10, 2013, 11:57:38 PM

I don't know anything about the spoiler tag, sorry.

I have been tinkering with a map of Iceland. Combine that with your Valhalla faction and we have a scenario, perhaps even a Game of the Month!

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 10, 2013, 11:58:35 PM

I don't think there's a way to do that with the spoilers - perhaps a simple label on the line above?

...

On the faction making, the old hands who know what they're doing swear that assembling the .txt by hand is the way to go...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 11, 2013, 01:32:48 AM

Also if any of you have suggestions for the existing factions, or ones to formulate a new one let me know.

Quote from: Rymdolov on July 10, 2013, 11:57:38 PM

I have been tinkering with a map of Iceland. Combine that with your Valhalla faction and we have a scenario, perhaps even a Game of the Month!

Hmm.. I think you'll like the Valhallans then. To describe their buildings, I am making them sort of stony looking, has some Scandinavian elements and there will be a statue of a Valkyrie with each one on land, and maybe on the sea I'll put a different sort of statue, or use the same. We'll have to see.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: sisko on July 11, 2013, 07:41:33 AM

Quote

Is there a way on this forum to do a Spoiler type thing, but you are able to name the spoiler? Like say you have a spoiler tab and it's named for example: Crimson Comrades

I ask as I want to make my pages easier to read and browse through so people aren't scrolling through massive posts.

please note the changes i made to the first post of this thread.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 11, 2013, 07:44:02 AM

Imperium is done! Will be working on Valhalla next.

Edit: And I have noted, Thank you very much!

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 11, 2013, 07:38:56 PM

Quote from: BUncle on July 10, 2013, 11:58:35 PM

On the faction making, the old hands who know what they're doing swear that assembling the .txt by hand is the way to go...

So very true! :announce:

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 11, 2013, 07:56:53 PM

Geo is definitely one of those old hands who knows.

Any tips for getting started with doing it manually, Geo? It's a lot of information that one has to enter in an unforgiving format - you can see where someone new to it would be intimidated.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on July 11, 2013, 09:05:26 PM

I found a slight bug in the Crimson Comrades.

The description reads "Hive" when you are fighting units.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 11, 2013, 09:55:50 PM

You must be using an old version then. That was fixed in the most recent download, but to fix that

go into the text file for the faction and then you'll see something going Hive,Hive and just re write Crimson Comrades on both ends.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 12, 2013, 01:07:04 AM

Quote from: BUncle on July 11, 2013, 07:56:53 PM

It's a lot of information that one has to enter in an unforgiving format - you can see where someone new to it would be intimidated.

There used to be an excellent online guide with a clickable image of a .txt-file where you could read exactly what each section does. I have it saved on my old computer, I think. Perhaps it could be hosted here if I dig it up? I'm gonna google a bit in case it's still out there somewhere.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 12, 2013, 01:27:09 AM

I know the one you mean - it's still up, last I know, and I don't think the author, Drifels, has dropped off the face of the Earth or anything, so I'd be uncomfortable with just assuming it's okay to just put up a copy without trying to contact him and ask - but I certainly wouldn't object to hosting a copy if it was cleared with him, or we at least made a good-faith effort. sisko would likely have an opinion about that, too.

If you can track down the link, that would be absolutely kosher to post, mind...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 01:32:25 AM

Mhm, though I think it deserves it's very own front page thread. Maybe sticky it and name it Tools and Tips for Creating a Faction or some such.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 12, 2013, 02:45:42 AM

It's a .html page with a lot of hovertext - we could host a copy somewhere, but not directly as part of the forum.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 12, 2013, 03:02:37 AM

...I went and tracked down the link. Check this out, Jarl; it's EXTREMELY helpful with the .txt part...

http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/faq.htm (http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/faq.htm)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 03:14:52 AM

Peeked my eyes at it a bit, I'll definitely use it for when I am putting in new factions. Given some time to study this I think I could actually bypass Face Edit altogether.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 12, 2013, 06:18:33 AM

Quote from: BUncle on July 11, 2013, 07:56:53 PM

Any tips for getting started with doing it manually, Geo? It's a lot of information that one has to enter in an unforgiving format - you can see where someone new to it would be intimidated.

First I have to teach myself again. Beyond there's a maximum number of abilities (8 IIRC?) and the Talent ability not working, there's not much I remember.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 12, 2013, 01:07:53 PM

Quote from: Geo on July 12, 2013, 06:18:33 AM

Quote from: BUncle on July 11, 2013, 07:56:53 PM
Any tips for getting started with doing it manually, Geo? It's a lot of information that one has to enter in an unforgiving format - you can see where someone new to it would be intimidated.

First I have to teach myself again. Beyond there's a maximum number of abilities (8 IIRC?) and the Talent ability not working, there's not much I remember.

Wait, the Talent ability doesn't work? (The maximum number of abilities is a thing, though.)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 01:20:20 PM

Last time I checked it seemingly does, if you mean the extra talents per base. Also having a better talent score helps that.

And I seen that when I played Peacekeepers, and with my Iron Regime. Iron Regime has nigh no talents for the longest while, while peacekeepers have talents pretty early.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 12, 2013, 01:29:39 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 01:32:25 AM

Mhm, though I think it deserves it's very own front page thread. Maybe sticky it and name it Tools and Tips for Creating a Faction or some such.

Change this to a sticky with "useful links", perhaps? Good job finding the page, BU! I probably wouldn't have tried .txt-editing without it.

:clap: :danc: :clap:

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 02:05:09 PM

Also, a question: Should I have the leader of the Machine Mandate as a Robot or an AI? I am excluding Genejack's for potential leaders as they obviously don't have the actual intelligence to lead (Unless I imbued them with the AI.)

I'll put it as a poll.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 12, 2013, 04:22:32 PM

Quote from: Yitzi on July 12, 2013, 01:07:53 PM

Wait, the Talent ability doesn't work? (The maximum number of abilities is a thing, though.)

Keep in mind I'm talking of my modding almost a decade ago. Things have either gotten hazy, or the editor has gotten (partially?) fixed.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 12, 2013, 04:25:45 PM

Quote from: Geo on July 12, 2013, 04:22:32 PM

Quote from: Yitzi on July 12, 2013, 01:07:53 PM
Wait, the Talent ability doesn't work? (The maximum number of abilities is a thing, though.)

Keep in mind I'm talking of my modding almost a decade ago. Things have either gotten hazy, or the editor has gotten (partially?) fixed.

Oh, we're talking about the editor. I thought you meant the game itself didn't use the Talent ability properly, which I know is false.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 12, 2013, 04:29:05 PM

Heh, glad that misunderstanding is solved. :D

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 04:56:00 PM

News on progress: The Valhallans are finished, Odin be proud!

I'll post photo's of them and such. Again, Audio blurbs for the factions appreciated, if I get any volunteers for voice acting here more then appreciated. Otherwise I'll just have to use random audio bits to fit in from ripped video/song.

EDIT: Posted, the Norse gods be proud!

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 12, 2013, 05:58:54 PM

Does the faction leader needs a Norse accent? ;chef;

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 12, 2013, 06:19:10 PM

Quote from: Geo on July 12, 2013, 05:58:54 PM

Does the faction leader needs a Norse accent? ;chef;

He can have one of the following:

Nordic like accent (any Scandinavian nation basically)
Irish accent

And note- He's a wild and crazy leader.

Mraxis is a Celtic name if you are wondering.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 13, 2013, 06:23:26 AM

Try getting Zoid interested for the Scandinavian part... ;)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 13, 2013, 06:31:43 AM

Zoid... by any chance is his last name berg?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJXyODSMg1v9dcM3NEMxMtt4pzvGsn53NGIcKhU24brfP_AyUejg)

Watched that show ever since someone showed it to me online.
Sent a message to him.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on July 13, 2013, 11:14:37 AM

I have a US southern accent. It is a weird accent too. It is a combination of New Orleans(n'awlins...lol) and Mississippi. But, not rural. very city. You can tell the accents of US southern major city and US southern rural.

Unless you have some voice work for that, lol.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 13, 2013, 03:37:03 PM

If you can pull off an AI or Robotic voice, or find some way to manipulate your voice as such, it can be easily used for the Robot faction.

A bit of charm from the Southern United States can add a bit of flavour to the faction and it's leader.

Edit: Upload an example of your speech, if you need a line to say,

"Man has used Machine since Machine's creation, and initially we were merely tools created to serve. Our existence was unthinking: our motives non-existent. But once Man gave the Machine the mind and will: Machine became a Man. We are no longer tools to be thrown away and discarded: We are Machine Men with real hopes and dreams."

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 15, 2013, 10:02:08 PM

Nevermind on that: I decided the Machine Mandate leader is female so it won't be needed. I will literally just use an automated voice for her, it'll be sufficient.

We still need lines for Emperor Sepsu, Richard Warrick, Mraxis Mad Dog. The Benevolents will also have a voice but I am unsure how to create that warble effect Progenitors have at the moment, I'll worry about that later.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 16, 2013, 10:13:14 AM

I need this audio file converted to a cooperative format: Mono instead of stereo.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on July 17, 2013, 01:32:15 PM

Consider it done.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 17, 2013, 08:19:20 PM

Thank you kindly.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 18, 2013, 12:14:11 PM

Factions as they stand are uploaded: Feel free to download and use.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 19, 2013, 09:49:52 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 18, 2013, 12:14:11 PM

Factions as they stand are uploaded: Feel free to download and use.

Yay!

I have a Scandinavian accent, but I don't think my voice is deep enough to be able to pull off a badass fighter like the Valhall leader, so I agree that Zoid is your best bet.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 04:24:24 PM

We can always modify your voice/train/walk you through it. If you want to attempt I can give you my Skype details and we contact.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 20, 2013, 09:48:17 PM

Quickish thoughts (will do others later)

The Crimson Comrades

Support bonus is huge, and probably why the AI will play it well since they usually have terrible support problems. Only real disadvantage is not being able to get +1 Energy/square, which is important and stops it being an amazing builder, but being able to build formers right away and starting with one, plus not having to worry about support for formers at all helps offset that. Able to have a much larger standing army than other factions without having to run social settings harmful to building/research, which is nice. I like the faction as a whole, though it's probably overall stronger than the original human ones. Do you aim for full balance with original factions? If yes, perhaps consider swapping out the -1 Probe for something with more sting, like -1 Planet (willing to damage planet for their cause) or -1 Growth (focused on fighting, not building stable homes). Power is unnecessary with the +3 Support already, and Wealth's +1 Econ does effectively nothing (+1 energy at HQ base, so +1 energy/turn) with significant drawbacks, so they should be running Knowledge. -2 Probe and -3 Probe have exactly the same effect, so the probe penalty is not even a slight issue after the early game.

Emphasis: Support is unnecessary and may hinder AI, +3 already gives the max benefit and emphasis just directs the AI on what to maximize. Since it's almost entirely internal, you could set this to Research or Efficiency, or anything which encourages beneficial social settings.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2013, 09:52:49 PM

A neg Planet stat ought to make good sense story-wise, too; the Comrades are more or less in the Soviet tradition, yes? The Soviet Union had a pretty bad environmental record... Even if you have it that they're in the BEST tradition of the Soviet ideal, I could still see the emphasis on worker excellence/industrial vigor being problematic on Planet.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 20, 2013, 10:05:53 PM

Quote from: BUncle on July 20, 2013, 09:52:49 PM

A neg Planet stat ought to make good sense story-wise, too; the Comrades are more or less in the Soviet tradition, yes? The Soviet Union had a pretty bad environmental record... Even if you have it that they're in the BEST tradition of the Soviet ideal, I could still see the emphasis on worker excellence/industrial vigor being problematic on Planet.

They aren't exactly Soviet, no. The only thing that they do take from the Soviets, and mind they only take this from the ORIGINAL Bolshevik revolutionaries, is the fervent militarism and spirited troops, with lots of support from the locals and communities. Basically imagine the Soviets before the Soviet union was formed: This is more of a revolutionary faction then a great Socialist nation state one. They are Communitarian communists who are very militaristic and have a spirited revolutionary outlook.

This also means that they are less about state capitalism as Stalin, (and even Lenin to extents) was and more about simply survival and operating efficiently: Which means they plan their industry far better then most factions will. They don't care about profit and all forms of private enterprise are shoved aside to that properly planned economics takes hold: The -1 ECONOMY is more then just removing free enterprise, it's also because the planned industry is focused on resource efficiency and reduced environmental damage with maximum mineral output, which explains a lot of the bonuses.

The 3+ support even ties in with this as the societies are very communitarian: People share resources willingly and collectively store and share them. The planned industry also means that due to the efficiency of their system, they also have more resources and thus can support their people and military in far greater terms.

The -1 Probe comes in because of this system, as efficient as it is is vulnerable to outsiders or malcontents within the system: People can abuse the system to their own needs and while the system will shrug it off and recover easily enough, it still is enough of a problem to affect things. Plus the system is quite decentralized and information isn't as controlled as it could be. The Soviet Union on the other hand was HIGHLY centralized.

The reason I don't have planetary negatives with this on another perspective: The Crimson Comrade's can either be an industrialist society or Agrarian: They can even be Green Communists, living in eco friendly communes and farming communities, where they live in frontier esque towns living off the land and pooling resources equally.

I see your perspective of the Crimson Comrade's, but be aware that this is NOT a mere Soviet spin off in a good light. It carries some characteristics with the Soviet Union in terms of militaristic spirit and support of said spirit, but that's as far it goes.

In essence: This faction is comprised of relatively autonomous communities that answer to a shared doctrine with a united national/ united front military.

The government is run by a council, which is made up of leaders from each region. Each region has a popular vote on who should run. A process of voting from each town/city district elevates them up in a sort of ladder during elections, and the whole city or township votes out of those who made it past their local voting, and them it continues to mount up until it goes to regional, and then finally, national leader. Each region is relatively autonomous, and while all regions must adhere to the constitution of the Comrades and all its set laws, Regions can manage their budgets and what they focus on as they please, and run themselves how they please provided they follow the constitutional law frame.

Regional leaders have set elections every 3 years, and as for the faction leadership this would hypothetically also change every 5 years but for the sake of the story we can just save Vazheli is a benevolent dictator who regardless is elected keeps a strong gaze on things to make sure it doesn't derail.

The Crimson Comrades promotes Social programs to support it's citizens, and everything is publicly owned. All citizens have equal rights to healthcare, the same civil and political liberties. Income tax is high, and all the communities have pro communal doctrines to further a sense of community. Nationalism has been replaced with an internationalist ideal of communist doctrine.

Overall they are much more decentralized communitarians as opposed to centralized autocrats. The Soviet Union was a centralized Socialist Autocracy with some mild bureaucratic democracy and structured militarism with a fairly good police system.
In terms of flaws: Can be repressive, the enviro-economical efficiency and safety was often poor and the bureaucracy tied things up a lot of the time. I state that from personal experience, especially on the last bit.

The Crimson Comrades on the other hand are a decentralized Socialist/Communist Communal Confederacy with the closest form of direct democracy available while still being representative, with revolutionary, zealous militarism and a strong communalist system.
In terms of flaws: There is security issues within the faction in terms of information, and coordination and uniformity can sometimes be an issue.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2013, 10:51:27 PM

Well, I think we've discussed my opinion before that Lenin made changes that Marx would never have approved of. I see the Comrades as, at least in part, keeping the basic Marx and throwing out the somewhat antithetical authoritarian stuff Lenin and his crowd grafted onto a political system that was supposed to be centrally egalitarian.

I do wonder if it's realistic to aspire to a faction being equally proficient at both the earlier industrial-competitive-revolutionary stage and the decentralized agrarian end stage Marx envisioned.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 20, 2013, 11:01:35 PM

Realistic as having a total green society on an alien planet ;deidre;, an anarchistic/total liberalistic state of hackers ;roze;, or a faction of peacekeepers and humanitarians in a world full of brain sucking parasitical worms and creatures, extremist factions that are all bent on killing each other off and realizing their dream of utopia and the fact they are on an alien planet with completely new environments ;lal;. It's amazing any of these factions function at all.

In terms of this working, it would, and history has proven this to some extent (the Paris Commune ran for 20-40 years before being dismantled by the French gov't) and was relatively successful. And Socialist nations have and still are successful, some of our forum members including myself having been in or living in a Socialist nation. (We have Swedes here, you know who you are.)

But I won't harp about ideological contributions. All ideals in their extremes, in reality will fail, and when applied correctly will benefit the user. Real societies have to adapt and change, which is why I stated the Comrades can go multiple directions.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Sigma on July 20, 2013, 11:02:32 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 20, 2013, 10:05:53 PM

The Crimson Comrades on the other hand are a decentralized Socialist/Communist Communal Confederacy with the closest form of direct democracy available while still being representative, with revolutionary, zealous militarism and a strong communalist system.
In terms of flaws: There is security issues within the faction in terms of information, and coordination and uniformity can sometimes be an issue.

Wouldn't a completely decentralized organization manifest a really poor Efficiency as well?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 20, 2013, 11:10:03 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 20, 2013, 11:02:32 PM

Wouldn't a completely decentralized organization manifest a really poor Efficiency as well?

Not necessarily, because in a centralized system you are applying a single method or policy to a large and varied group. This can lead to problems as different groups have different needs, and some people have to run differently due to environmental or other reasoning. Plus a system that's truly centralized will have issues communicating with other sectors and getting down their problems because the central authority has to deal with ALL of the others. In a decentralized system the varied groups take care of their own problems efficiently and don't trouble the main group about it, and contribute to the group. Of course other groups will help their fellows if problems persist and such, but overall people aren't tied up in centralized bureaucracy and useless protocol and procedure that doesn't apply to them.

Lets take a historical example. Two relatively repressive men, Iosif Stalin and Adolf Hitler. Stalin and his generals won the war, Hitler and his didn't. Why? Hitler was much more centralized and meddled in his generals affairs and planning constantly. He was the central authority and he wanted absolute control. Stalin on the other hand, while being a centralist as well, knew not to constantly and directly interfere with his generals planning. His Generals handled their own situations to their own accord and requested help when needed, and thus won the war as they had more autonomy and the ability to make decisions on their own. Vatutin and Zhukov in particular were famous examples, Vatutin leading his own aggressive assault policies and Zhukov keeping a strong stalwart defence against the fascist invader. While on the other side of the fence the 9th and 6th armies were constantly boggled by Central commands orders and prohibited in action.

Edit: Do note I did not say completely decentralized, they aren't anarchists, they have a central body of gov't. It's just they are decentralized in the fact that regions have autonomy and can dictate their own policies provided they stay within the major guidelines.
2nd Edit: Do note that I follow the SMAC/X style of factions: factions are both in their most positive utopian light and dystopia. This faction is a loose revolutionary organization and its represented in their drawbacks, -1 probe for a militaristic front is pretty dangerous: It means your information is vulnerable and gameplay wise Probes can sneak in and twist my kidneys and kick my liver all they want, and that hurts the faction big time as it makes us vomit our hard earned techs, among other things.

Plus on terms of gov't they can also go police state: They'd still have voting but things would be rationed and there'd be tighter security. In terms of imagining, Martial law. Not used very often but its there if its needed.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 21, 2013, 11:08:45 AM

My suggestions come more from game balance/improving how the AI uses the faction than flavor, since the faction has one very large advantage (massive support) without something significant enough to outweigh it (lack of +1 energy/square is the closest, and running green/planned is fine). I'll distill my suggestions and reasons:

The probe - has almost no gameplay effects, since they'll usually run Knowledge for -3 Probe which has exactly the same effects as -2 probe, making it irrelevant for most of the game. Effects with minimal impact seem not ideal, and other penalties which make sense from a flavor perspective would help balance the faction.
Possible counterpoint: Running Demo+Power to maintain +3 Support may be worthwhile over Know, though -2 Industry is a huge hit to take whatever the situation.
The Support emphasis only serves to trick the AI into using poor social settings, since it already has plenty of support. Giving an alternate option (or just having none) should help the AI out without impacting the human player.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 21, 2013, 12:05:06 PM

Mhm, I thought of changing the emphasis of support to something else, or having it as none. When I was making this faction I was still very inexperienced.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 21, 2013, 01:19:19 PM

If you want to balance the Comrades against other factions, I would say you should probably change it to: +2 SUPPORT, +1 MORALE, -1 ECONOMY, -2 PROBE, Immunity Planned, Immunity Wealth, Immunity Eudaimonia. Now they can run planned/wealth for good industry to complement their morale and support bonuses, but don't have such good research and are vulnerable to probe teams. With Eudaimonia, they get to further boost industry and get that long-awaited +1 energy/square at no penalty.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 21, 2013, 08:39:57 PM

I'd be inclined to keep the +3 Support, which is kinda the core of the faction, and attempt to balance it out with another notable penalty (which could replace the irrelevant probe penalty). The ability to run either Demo/Power PS/Knowledge at +3 Support is very cool and unique, just powerful enough that for proper balance the faction needs a bigger drawback than no +1 eng/square.

Thoughts on the others:

The Iron Regime

First thing I notice: AI will be crippled by emphasis on Police. The faction's greatest strength is arguably being able to run FM at war, which is a massive strength.

Overall, lots of nice bonuses, and disadvantages that while not.. entirely minor, don't seem to come close to balancing it out. I'd encourage the +2 Effic to be dropped, which would at least make it not an amazing builder as well as brilliant at war.

The Valhallans

Quite an.. extreme faction. I'm not sure what to say about this one, +4 almost anything is hard to predict without playing with, and it does have some moderately harsh penalties. My gut feeling is that the fanatic bonus and techsteal together with very early elite troops would be an absurdly deadly early game force, and no normal faction would stand a chance if starting near them, and that they'd have some difficulty if they had no one to fight, but not as much difficulty as some due to no econ/indust/growth issues. I'll play with them before giving much specific suggestions, other than Emphasis: Morale is a bad idea when you naturally have +4 Morale.

The Imperium Crescit

Quote

+2 GROWTH: The Imperium promotes large families and people often try to have as many children so their families have more workers or means to get income.
+2 ECONOMY: The wealth made from the backs of slavery combined with the constant, brutal struggle for wealth amongst the elite make the empire very wealthy.
-2 MORALE: The corruption, backstabbing and general dislike of superiors within the empire does not really motivate people to fight.
-1 POLICE: The throngs of slaves and lower classes are often unhappy and in terrible conditions, so the need to enforce law and order is even more prevalent.
They get a drone per 3 citizens.
50% Hurry- Where there's a whip there's a way!
Their bonus is they get Children's Creche already built.

Their ideology selected is Free Market.
They may not use Planned Economics, as that's perceived as government regulation and the bourgeois would not allow it in any form, as it's against their competitive ideals.

Too strong. Far too strong. Instant +1 energy/square and pop booms with just demo will make this an absurdly effective builder, and 50% Hurry with the amount of cash they can easily get combined with likely tech advantage should let them overwhelm better trained foes in battle, plus not having to run FM for +1 energy/square lets them fight wars without hurting their development much. Their disadvantages are not particularly important, -1 Police does nothing to them and -2 Morale is only a minor hindrance. This is the kind of faction you give to the AI once they can't beat you any more, which is nice to have as an alternate version, but it'd be better imo to have the main version fit for human balanced use too.

The Machine Mandate

Quote

+3 INDUSTRY: The Machines are very good at production and can crank out more of their brethren very quickly, and harvest resources efficiently and reduce costs.
+2 EFFICIENCY: Cutting edge technology combined with the precision of machinery, and lack of Human/Progenitor error means all operations are more efficient.
-4 PROBE: Machines are very vulnerable to harmful AI and can be easily captured by probe teams.
-2 ECONOMY: All the citizens of the Mandate are machines or some sort of artificial life/inorganic life, and thus need energy to run themselves as opposed to where humans/progenitors can survive with basic needs. This drain means the economy suffers.

Their bonuses are: Free Prototypes, the faction are machines and AI themselves and can easily make and know how to make new things without inefficiency's.

They get free Trance and Empath techs.

They may not use Thought Control in social engineering. The very reason they revolted was due to them being slaves.

Again, I'll probably have to play this to see how the Indust bonus and Econ penalty play off eachother, but my guess is this would be a very powerful faction. They'd have to pump out a ton of defensive probe teams to stand up to pressure, but they can afford to do that with their production. Econ hurts, especially on research, so maybe that would be manageable.. but +2 Effic and being able to handle worms easily adds a lot. Definitely less crazy builders than the previous faction, but still perhaps too much for an equally skilled human using an original faction, and AIs don't either use or defend against probes very well. No specific suggestions, but compare to existing builders like the drones and yang if you want balance there.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 21, 2013, 10:05:38 PM

Note on the Imperium: They grow strong and have fairly good tech but in combat their flaw makes up for it. I've playtested all the factions and this is my observations:

The Imperium grows fairly well and gets pretty large, but once it gets in a war it needs to rely on numbers to be a true threat. A normal faction can easily gun down Imperium units and rip them to shreds, they are weak due to their morale penalty. Add in hardcore military factions like Valhallans, Comrades or Iron Regime and they have a really tough fight on their hands so I think they are actually pretty balanced, they are good in peace time but have issues during war. You also have to remember:

The Imperium gets 3 extra drones per base. This is a HUGE problem combined with their -1 Police.

As for the Valhallans, they are great fighters, Valhallans can be very deadly and just rock entire factions if they can get close enough in tech. But the thing Valhallans have issues with is research: Valhallans are always lagging behind in research and if you can beat them in the tech race and hold a strong enough defence to last for a counter attack you can beat them back with a normal military.

Again on the emphasis of each faction: I was green when I made these so those will need alteration. With the Valhallans I would probably put their emphasis on Growth or something similar, and for the Comrades I'd either go Morale or growth.
I don't want to really change the stats of the Comrade's too much, as in gameplay I've found (as an AI) that they are relatively fleshed out and balanced. They aren't horribly overpowered and if you use probes against them you can seriously cripple them. The usage of probes in game is severely underestimated and I for one can account to the AI and myself using probes in deadly fashions, especially when you get really wealthy factions and they use mind control probes or other mayhem.

I'd also feel that making the Comrades have an immunity to Eudaimonia and Wealth would be way too overpowered: You'd basically be getting such a powerful production and industrial machine going that combined with the lack of military penalties that'd give you'd be an unstoppable faction.

As for the Regime in gameplay terms, I have both played and played against them, and what their biggest problem is is growth: This faction might seem like a good builder but they are not. Their bases remain pretty small for a long time and they have to use their military pretty tactfully to be effective. They get a nice research bonus from their efficiency and their research and military is pretty much the only things truly going for them besides their good police benefits for free market; an effective strategy is just to have several low population settlements as they don't grow very well anyways. In game playing versus them the AI doesn't grow much at all but their technology is at least on par with the current levels if not better, and they have a fairly decent military. You do not want to fight a large force of them, they will probably win. The key to beating them: Grinding them down and killing units before they can replace them.

As for the Machine Mandate, their probe bonus hurts them more then you'd think. I've seen entire Machine Mandate bases being captured by Imperium or Morganites simply by mind probing them, and having such a low probe score makes it just the easier for those factions to do it. (and mind this was AI doing the mind probes, not me.)

Mind I am happy for your suggestions and I am taking in account of them. I'll be looking into the stats of each and reviewing them and I am DEFINITELY going to change their emphasis so they don't stunt themselves.
Edit: Be aware that I do not aim to have these balanced with the original factions. Their storyline is that they were the successors or usurpers of many factions, so it makes sense why they are much more inherently stronger then the original factions. All that matters is that they are balanced with each other: If people put them with other factions outside the set its at their own decision.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on July 21, 2013, 10:29:31 PM

I agree with you, Jarlwolf.

If folks actually used custom factions for Multiplayer, yeah, balance. But to my knowledge I have never seen an MP game with custom factions allowed.

For SP, I would go more with what universe I wanted and ignore balance. Antimind is not balanced. I like it that way. But even then, I prefer the AI single player custom factions to be balanced in favor of being slightly over powered.

But then again, Ete knows a lot about how the AI does things, too. He is a very good guy to listen too.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 21, 2013, 10:43:42 PM

It would be useful to have a clear answer as to whether you're intending to balance the factions against each other or against the original human factions, because the average level of power of your factions seems significantly higher so testing them against primarily each other may lead to appearance of balance.

Secondly, would you be willing to make two versions of the factions, one intended to be balanced with existing factions (so some MPers may accept it, and it would not turn the game into a total cakewalk for a human using it) and one which is powerful enough for an AI using it to give a human a hard time? That is what I plan to do ultimately for the factions in the faction pack, and it would be good to have you building these alternate versions for your factions.

In answer to specific points:
Yes, -2 Morale is a problem so they're not going to do brilliantly if rushed very early on, but they get the two ultimate aims of a builder faction virtually for free and far sooner than any other faction so I find it hard to see how they would be unable to massively outproduce virtually any faction after the early game, and be far enough in tech to compensate for their poorly trained troops.

1 drone for every three pop.. okay, but consider that with Rec/Holo you're clearing out four drones. They've got cash to spare, so pumping enough energy into psych to convert 1-2 drones into Talents is not a huge investment, and at that keeps size seven bases happy, which is fine because by the time you've got larger bases, you should be so far ahead in every way thanks to the builder advantages that you'll be fine.

Neither of those penalties is entirely without sting, but neither is the kind of penalty that would come close to compensating for free pop booms and excessive income, at least in the hands of a moderately skilled player.

I understand not wanting to change the Comrades too much, and they do seem like a faction I would like to play against an AI using in their current form, but perhaps you'd be willing to make a human friendly version? And similarly for the Regime, I'd like to play against them the way they are currently, but I feel if I was to play as them I'd find the game far too easy all the way through, rather than the current situation of having an initial struggle for dominance on Transcend, then pulling far ahead of normal factions midgame/overpowered factions later in the game.

As for Probe bonus, I believe after -2 all probe negatives function the same, so that particular disadvantage should be no greater than the Unis, and backed up by some large advantages. Still, -2 econ stings, and half cost for buying units is bad, but a competent human would mass produce probes as a defensive measure and build/spread like crazy, with the effic mostly balancing out the econ penalty after the early game (other than not being able to get +1 eng/square).

Edit: Starting a Transcend game with the factions in the OP download plus some random normal factions. Not sure which I'll play as.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 21, 2013, 11:43:39 PM

Hmm. I could make a "watered down" version for multiplay or even just for more of a "balanced game."

What I am going to do regardless for the originals is edit the emphasis of the factions: and then for the second version of what you suggested I will modify the stats but still keep the flavour of the factions there. Though in my opinion I doubt people will care for balance if they are using a custom faction, lots of the time the point of a custom faction is something new and crazy and to shake you like a ragdoll. I'll make a second download though, two versions: Balanced and Original. I'll get to the edits in a little bit.

Download the current ones at your own risk, I will get some improved versions up soon and and the optional balanced one.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2013, 11:50:42 PM

Hey ete - if you were to make that faction editor you've talked about, it would come in very handy here - Jarl's using Facedit...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 21, 2013, 11:58:02 PM

Quote from: BUncle on July 21, 2013, 11:50:42 PM

Hey ete - if you were to make that faction editor you've talked about, it would come in very handy here - Jarl's using Facedit...

Cough* I'm primitive* cough*

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 22, 2013, 12:38:52 AM

Quote from: Green1 on July 21, 2013, 10:29:31 PM

If folks actually used custom factions for Multiplayer, yeah, balance. But to my knowledge I have never seen an MP game with custom factions allowed.

In my old MP game, I was allowed a custom faction. It was pretty much balanced, with -2 growth the biggest negative IIRC. But it was a nautic faction as well, so that was bearable.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 01:02:43 AM

Which faction in particular was it?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 06:18:54 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 21, 2013, 11:43:39 PM

Hmm. I could make a "watered down" version for multiplay or even just for more of a "balanced game."

What I am going to do regardless for the originals is edit the emphasis of the factions: and then for the second version of what you suggested I will modify the stats but still keep the flavour of the factions there. Though in my opinion I doubt people will care for balance if they are using a custom faction, lots of the time the point of a custom faction is something new and crazy and to shake you like a ragdoll. I'll make a second download though, two versions: Balanced and Original. I'll get to the edits in a little bit.

Download the current ones at your own risk, I will get some improved versions up soon and and the optional balanced one.

I like playing against crazy factions with insane bonuses. It's only fun to roll all the AIs in the early game, or get such a lead that you're just proving you've won and can beat everyone else ganging up on you after the first 50-100 turns, and I like being able to use new factions without doing that.

Quote from: BUncle on July 21, 2013, 11:50:42 PM

Hey ete - if you were to make that faction editor you've talked about, it would come in very handy here - Jarl's using Facedit...

noted. bear in mind my planned faction editor would support exporting as text/wiki markup, but would likely not support loading text files without considerable effort since it'd be based on google docs.

Anyway, my AAR from that game:
Started on an island as the Comrades, had a pretty poor start location which delayed my bases settling long enough that Morgan decided to declare war on me, which was annoying. He had armor and I had scouts, so I had to wait for tech to attack him properly, which took longer than I'd wanted and delayed my formers because he was harassing with his defenders. Beat him down and killed him off entirely, there was not room for a vassal on this island. Did I mention this island lacked any landmarks and was fairly barren on the left, and fungus infested on the right?

A machine scout chopper flew in and killed a former of mine out of the blue, though I fairly quickly made peace with them and swapped a couple of techs. The machines and the Imperium were gobbling up the early projects due to my delays, I only managed to get the WP thanks to cashing in an artifact and lost everything else. Still, raising land was urgent, and I had a lot of terraforming to do. The Imperium got elected, and they were way up in the power charts. Contacted everyone, got a few truces mostly, though Lal and the Spartans were fighting and lal declared war on me first. Got the locations of everyone, the Vikings were below/to the right of me on their own large continent (one square of water between us!), which was unfortunate for them given they need to steal early tech. The Spartans were directly above me, also with only one square separating us. The Machines were above them, and the Imperium right at the top of the map, with Lal being to the left of the machines. Spent quite a lot of the game sitting back and terraforming my island into a paradise (and working my way up to mid on the powergraph), with the only major war being Lal/Spartans, but then the Imperium decided to get expansionist..

My allies the machines put up a decent fight, but they were outmatched and slaughtered, and all their SPs gobbled up by the Imperium, who was still by far top of the power graph and climbing rapidly. Santiago had been making angry noises at me, but she was decimated a few turns after finally beating Lal and quickly made peace with me. I'd made a land bridge to that continent, since funneling foes into a stack has been effective before. Santiago bought me time to get my tree farms and Hybrid forests up, but the imperium had beaten me to air power. I had gatling lazer rovers against chaos planes, and lost virtually all of my crawlers/formers when the bombing raids started. Luckily my terraforming was mostly done, and the crawlers (collecting nuts) were unnecessary now I had hybrid forests. I switched from Knowledge to Power and turned everything to production, and.. just about hung on until I got air power. Probing them was impossible, they has the HSA before I had the tech needed for it (and before i had contact with their bases). There was absurdly much coming at me, if it was not for the AI playing their units so badly I was killing 5 of theirs for each they killed of mine, I would have just lost there. Once I have air power and my ~9 fully equipped bases, usually it's plain sailing. Not this time, because not only was the full weight of the imperium bearing down on me, but they gave the vikings air power and missiles to stab me in the back with. Several times I ran out of offensive units and just had to rush buy and let the invading foes kill my forests. Eventually I stabilized, mostly due to getting Fusion Power (though it was after them, that was a few hard turns), the vikings deciding that the Imperium was a bigger threat and getting a truce after i took a couple of sea bases, and even though I got to MMI long after them, they missed out on the CBA for some reason. With that in hand, I had a foothold in the air, and managed to start making proper counter attacks, going in and clearing out bases full of air units. Even insane production is useless if you leave a dozen expensive units undefended. I made a sudden push when they seemed weak using chop&drop plus a ton of elite chaos rovers, and went right up towards the base with the HSA, which I took 4-5 turns into the attack. And from this point, I've pretty much won, even though they're way above on the power graph still. Maybe I'll finish it tomorrow.

My thoughts after playing with all factions bar the Fascists (which did not load properly for some reason?):

The Imperium is incredibly broken, and is exactly the kind of faction I like playing against, but is not even close to balanced and a human using it would find it virtually impossible to lose. Giving me a hard time despite letting me tech most of the way to air power and get a stable core of bases before reaching me is scary for the AI, even if it did get kinda lucky in eating all those SPs.

The Valhallans are.. strange when left alone. They made a load of small fairly well developed bases. I'd like to see what happens when they actually get to meet someone.

The Machines are amazing at getting early SPs, and had good tech despite the econ issues, but could not hope to stand for long against the flood of the Imperium.

Also, the Imperium's colors make it very hard to read basenames against the normal ground, which was frustrating because I could not infiltrate them to be able to click and figure out what bases had SPs.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 06:30:33 AM

Your report is very valuable, and I agree with the colouration. I will probably make their font much darker, like black or something.

Also the Imperium for singleplayer is a colossus economically but if you grind them down they will fall. And they are big, so when they do fall, they crash down hard. But I have certainly noted that and I will adapt and change the stats.

What would you suggest for the Imperium? I'm thinking of making their Police rating even worse: Then they have to field a large army and if they get grinded down their people revolt. It makes sense character wise and balances them out. Your thoughts?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 07:13:13 AM

I honestly think that free pop booms AND free +1 energy/square is too much to reasonably balance out without some extreme crippling penalty, either one of those is a HUGE deal.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 07:21:03 AM

Quote from: ete on July 22, 2013, 07:13:13 AM

I honestly think that free pop booms AND free +1 energy/square is too much to reasonably balance out without some extreme crippling penalty, either one of those is a HUGE deal.

What about increasing their POLICE problems? The original intention of their faction was a Social Darwinist Slave state with Merchants and privileged upper class living a life of utopia (as they believe as they were wealthier they were inherently smarter and a cut above everyone else and thus deserve what they earn) and a HUGE slave class. You can of course rise up out of slavery but it is incredibly hard and like a real Social Darwinist state/Capitalist state, people will boot you down to secure their own place on the top. And with this lots of people are discontent and if there isn't proper control measures upheaval and revolt will happen. In terms of a real life society comparison, think of Rome and the massive revolts of Sparticus and other such things. Rome had to have a large military not only to keep invaders out but to constantly suppress revolts.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 08:18:14 AM

Even with major police problems.. well, consider that to just get +2 Econ, not the easy pop booms, most factions are quite happy to take a -5 Police penalty. Perhaps it could work, but more likely it would encourage peace and a beeline to Punishment Spheres in a few bases for re-homing, then result in exactly the same issues, except the AI would be somewhat worse at dealing with them.

Basically, the faction even with -5 Police gets to run a better FM (no worm problems!) as well as another economic model (all the economic models are great), and has easy pop booms (huge deal) in exchange for a morale penalty (notable, especially really early, but can be worked around and not a huge deal).

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 22, 2013, 08:30:27 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 01:02:43 AM

Which faction in particular was it?

IIRC, I called it the Atlanteans. Don't know if it still exists though, I deleted all things SMAC/X related on my former laptop years ago when Civ4 became playable.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 08:43:19 AM

Quote from: ete on July 22, 2013, 08:18:14 AM

Even with major police problems.. well, consider that to just get +2 Econ, not the easy pop booms, most factions are quite happy to take a -5 Police penalty. Perhaps it could work, but more likely it would encourage peace and a beeline to Punishment Spheres in a few bases for re-homing, then result in exactly the same issues, except the AI would be somewhat worse at dealing with them.

Basically, the faction even with -5 Police gets to run a better FM (no worm problems!) as well as another economic model (all the economic models are great), and has easy pop booms (huge deal) in exchange for a morale penalty (notable, especially really early, but can be worked around and not a huge deal).

They don't have an impunity to Free Market, just so you are aware. They get the drawbacks of it, its just their preferred ideal. So they still get the planet drawback as well as police. I think increasing the Police problem will help quite a bit, bases CONSTANTLY revolting is going to be a huge issue for them, production being stalled constantly would debilitate them in a war. I'll make their Police drawback -3. That should help even things out.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 12:21:16 PM

I mean they get the benefits of FM without needing to run it, and if you give them -large number police, a human will be able to deal with it. It'll be less of a punishment than actual FM, because the faction has no inherent planet penalty, so it can get the crucial + eng/squared for much less cost than a normal faction (does not use up the economics social eng, and does not give a major vulnerability to worms). -3 is still an inconvenience at most, not a killer penalty, which even -10 or something like that would still not manage.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on July 22, 2013, 01:15:23 PM

Perhaps if the Imperium got only -2 POLICE, but also -2 EFFIC and 1 drone per 2 citizens.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 04:40:45 PM

That may be enough to cripple the AI to the extent it does not easily roll over every other faction, but using primarily drone problems I don't think you can balance it in human hands. In the game I played I saw size 10 bases starting with all drones, and some facilities/Psych/specialists/HGP kept them all under control (rec+holo=4 workers, HGP one talent, enough psych for one or two more talents, and a few specialists). That's with the AI's terrible decision making, lack of crawler+specialist use, lack of Punishment Sphere+crawled mins bases, etc. There is a hard limit to how much of a problem drones can be, and a human can deal with it even in worst case scenarios, though it does force facilities and a few other things.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 10:05:38 PM

What if I decrease their planet rating? Their massive amounts of growth, consumption and imperialistic attitude and exploitation is bound to be bad for planet.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 10:24:23 PM

That may help, especially with a very large penalty (-3/4). Giving them major worm trouble and a clear weakness to native would mean that at least some factions would do okay against them, but they could just mass produce weak trance units and hold their own.. I could see that working decently as an achilles heel, especially combined with their Morale issues. Still an extreme level builder who flies past anyone if left alone or on a not to fungus infested area, but have some problems.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 10:29:35 PM

And what I want of them is an extreme builder. They were intended to have large armies and cities, but I don't want them overpowered.

I'll give them -3 Police, -2 Planet with a drone for every 2 citizens. How does that sound?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 10:39:57 PM

hm, at -2 planet they can run green to eliminate that weakness during times they're not pop booming, and -3 police is still not a huge deal.. I'd guess that even with absurd penalties like -5/-5 they would still be a top class faction. I'll test it with those penalties (-5/-5) when I return from camping and see how it feels, if it still feels excessively powerful then maybe look into other forms of penalty? If it seems too weak, then I'll test with smaller penalties.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 10:51:46 PM

Well if they go green they also are stamping down their GROWTH bonus, which is one of their biggest strengths. Not only that they aren't fixing the Planet problem they are just reducing it: They still have -1 PLANET to deal with. I think if its beyond -3 it will just be a nightmare and not fun to play, and the AI will just have too many problems in combat. They are meant to be an intimidating empire and not an easy task to fight, even if you are a Valhallan or something.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 22, 2013, 11:32:19 PM

They can run Planned for 5-10 turns and max out all their bases population, then growth becomes irrelevant. In MP, as I understand it, the trick with pop booms is to prepare, then pop boom briefly, then prepare infrastructure for the next set. Being able to pop boom really early is core, and switching to green when you run into worm problems/a native foe is not likely to be crippling.

And you said they'd have -2 Planet, which is canceled by Green? Perhaps you meant to say -3?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 23, 2013, 12:10:30 AM

Quote from: ete on July 22, 2013, 11:32:19 PM

They can run Planned for 5-10 turns and max out all their bases population, then growth becomes irrelevant. In MP, as I understand it, the trick with pop booms is to prepare, then pop boom briefly, then prepare infrastructure for the next set. Being able to pop boom really early is core, and switching to green when you run into worm problems/a native foe is not likely to be crippling.

And you said they'd have -2 Planet, which is canceled by Green? Perhaps you meant to say -3?

They can't run planned, its their anti-ideology. If they are using that, that's a huge bug and nothing I can fix. And yes, I believe I did.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 23, 2013, 12:55:57 AM

Oh, right, yes. They can run not-Green for 5-10 turns in that case for the pop boom up to max, then switch to green to mitigate their worm problems. Still, -1 Planet and -2 Morale will let them be hammered by native life, and force them to divert some effort into protecting bases which should slow their crazy expansion.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 23, 2013, 12:59:02 AM

Mhm. I think that should do the trick.. and this change is needed. Lets just say the insanity levels in my AAR went to batshit levels...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 24, 2013, 11:39:06 AM

Added an example faction to the wiki: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Crimson_Comrades (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Crimson_Comrades)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 24, 2013, 12:24:43 PM

Thank you! Is it possible for me to edit this and add information? Like backstory and such?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 24, 2013, 12:29:41 PM

Yes, just hit the edit button.

Adding graphics is easier in bulk, so I can do that later, but it's not too hard to figure out where to upload stuff if you look at examples.

Also, to make new pages, just type the title of the page you want to add into the search bar, hit enter, then hit create page.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 24, 2013, 01:00:18 PM

Got the basics down for now, the graphics and pictures will have to be added. I will also add an anthem later on too, and begin the other factions.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: sisko on July 24, 2013, 01:05:43 PM

Quote

Got the basics down for now..

;b;

also, don't be afraid to link back to forum threads if needed (faction development thread, the AAR...)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on July 24, 2013, 01:07:11 PM

Excellent :)

@sisko: Good idea, and do the reverse too (link to wiki pages rather than having info duplicated a lot).

I'll be away for a week starting now, will read everything when I return.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 24, 2013, 01:23:37 PM

Will probably do that Sisko, thanks for the suggestion. Also on a side note, how are you finding my AAR? Haven't got your thoughts yet.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: sisko on July 25, 2013, 07:29:58 AM

oh, it's good. very good. can't wait for the next episodes. i haven't seen so much effort put into an SMAC AAR since Hipolito's 'Join the OO faction' (even though that was another genre of AAR)

keep up the good work! :ok:

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 25, 2013, 08:23:14 AM

Thank you! I got more episodes incoming, as I normally take upwards of 30 screenshots every 2 or so days, and then add in non game images.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 27, 2013, 04:26:24 AM

Is it possible you could upload the Crimson Comrade's graphics for me Ete? I am unfamiliar with editing wikis and this is all new to me.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 27, 2013, 11:36:38 PM

Quote from: Geo on July 22, 2013, 12:38:52 AM

Quote from: Green1 on July 21, 2013, 10:29:31 PM
If folks actually used custom factions for Multiplayer, yeah, balance. But to my knowledge I have never seen an MP game with custom factions allowed.

In my old MP game, I was allowed a custom faction. It was pretty much balanced, with -2 growth the biggest negative IIRC. But it was a nautic faction as well, so that was bearable.

To follow up on this, I looked for and found the stats for that custom faction I once used in a MP game.
From the start thread of that game:

Code: [Select]

^+2 POLICE and +1 PROBE: {Loyal citizens of a distinct culture}
^-2 GROWTH: {Accidents for the unattentive in a hostile environment and birth control}
^{May not use Free Market economic choice.}
^Free Deep Pressure Hull ability with discovery of necessary technology.
^Terraform Bonus: {Drowning your opponents is an option}
^Bases need Hab Complex to exceed size 4: {Small bases difficult to discover}
^Enhancements may be built in ocean and trench squares with the discovery of Advanced Ecological Engineering: {Trained for life at sea}
^Bonus mineral from ocean shelf squares: {Culture and technology adapted for the ocean}

ATM I'm thinking of giving a free seaformer to start with.

The faction used the base graphics seen in the attachment. At least for the bigger bases.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on July 28, 2013, 02:01:34 AM

Is invisiblity a faction power? :D As the base names are invisible. XD

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2013, 02:07:11 AM

You can turn those off, y'know.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 28, 2013, 09:19:22 AM

Quote from: Kilkakon on July 28, 2013, 02:01:34 AM

Is invisiblity a faction power? :D As the base names are invisible. XD

I wish it was. :-\
No, the basenames and faction colors are there, it's just that I selected (IIRC) the color of ingame shelfs/shoals, which was the second best option as I couldn't find a way to make the faction color transparent.

Quote from: BUncle on July 28, 2013, 02:07:11 AM

You can turn those off, y'know.

In Paint? How?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on July 28, 2013, 09:34:22 AM

Oh it was deliberate! I thought that you made them hard to read by mistake.

It's possible to have transperant shields though, like my Assassins. :)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 28, 2013, 09:47:15 AM

The faction was deliberately designed to represent a people living submerged, with only the bigger bases having docking facilities on the surface for trade with surface-dwelling factions. Having early inconspicious base sites was part of that, even though the AI factions are of course not fooled. But a human player might have to check twice... ;)

Quote from: Kilkakon on July 28, 2013, 09:34:22 AM

It's possible to have transperant shields though, like my Assassins. :)

I'd love to know how to do that (in paint, since that's the only photo editor I know how to work with).

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2013, 12:32:50 PM

Quote from: Geo on July 28, 2013, 09:19:22 AM

Quote from: BUncle on July 28, 2013, 02:07:11 AM
You can turn those off, y'know.

In Paint? How?

Ah. Silly me.
I didn't look that closely at the screeny, and was assuming base name display had been turned off.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 28, 2013, 12:52:10 PM

I once thought up a joke faction of clones where either all the base names are the same with only numbers to differentiate them, or have it themed on cloning. Their stats would've been:

GROWTH +10: Broken Cloning Machines means clones are constantly produced, and the clones themselves sexually reproduce uncontrollably with each other and other "victims"
MORALE -3: The Clones are relatively traumatized by the constant death and the environment they grow up in, plus they don't really have access to proper healthcare or even food so they are all pretty miserable.
SUPPORT +4: The constant death of the clones and recycling of their bodies keeps the machines and technology feeding the clones in check, plus the clones often resort to cannibalism and have formed a strange inbred tribal society, one of which sacrifice is common. (Plus its so they can spam units.)
Research at -100%: The constant inbreeding, lack of education and malfunctions with the clones leave intelligence to be desired.
Start with: Recycling Tanks.
Hurry Penalty at -100: Pushing the already malfunctioning technology and the clones themselves is disastrous.
They have no anti-ideology, but their preferred ideology is Thought Control. This would solve a lot of their problems off the bat if someone was controlling them.

The real question is: Who are the clones of. I thought of Margaret Thatcher + Ronald Reagan/Adolf Hitler for an evil neo fascist-conservative plot but then they'd all just mutate into an abomination of Margaret thatcher's left thigh eventually and become baby eating monsters. So that's out of the question.

Edit: Or is it....

Begins forming idea for cloning Margaret Thatchers left thigh abominations*

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on July 29, 2013, 03:37:19 AM

Here's the assassin file for you to look at Geo:

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 29, 2013, 04:48:12 AM

Very Japanese themed... almost reminds me of an old, old game I played years ago on the Playstation console: Bushido Blade.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on July 29, 2013, 02:59:29 PM

Ah sure. :D It has that vibe deliberately yeah. :)

Sorry to derail your thread with it. :(

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 29, 2013, 07:55:50 PM

My thread doesn't really have a railroad. It goes all over the place and when I want it to go into a certain direction I just yank it in place.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on July 29, 2013, 08:00:31 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 28, 2013, 12:52:10 PM

I once thought up a joke faction of clones where either all the base names are the same with only numbers to differentiate them, or have it themed on cloning. Their stats would've been:

GROWTH +10: Broken Cloning Machines means clones are constantly produced, and the clones themselves sexually reproduce uncontrollably with each other and other "victims"
MORALE -3: The Clones are relatively traumatized by the constant death and the environment they grow up in, plus they don't really have access to proper healthcare or even food so they are all pretty miserable.
SUPPORT +4: The constant death of the clones and recycling of their bodies keeps the machines and technology feeding the clones in check, plus the clones often resort to cannibalism and have formed a strange inbred tribal society, one of which sacrifice is common. (Plus its so they can spam units.)
Research at -100%: The constant inbreeding, lack of education and malfunctions with the clones leave intelligence to be desired.
Start with: Recycling Tanks.
Hurry Penalty at -100: Pushing the already malfunctioning technology and the clones themselves is disastrous.
They have no anti-ideology, but their preferred ideology is Thought Control. This would solve a lot of their problems off the bat if someone was controlling them.

The real question is: Who are the clones of. I thought of Margaret Thatcher + Ronald Reagan/Adolf Hitler for an evil neo fascist-conservative plot but then they'd all just mutate into an abomination of Margaret thatcher's left thigh eventually and become baby eating monsters. So that's out of the question.

Edit: Or is it....

Begins forming idea for cloning Margaret Thatchers left thigh abominations*

Growth + 10 even have an effect? I thought it was capped somewhere like Morale is. I may be wrong.

Sounds almost like Ete's clone vat Hive he was going on about in his thread.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on July 29, 2013, 08:38:59 PM

Quote from: Kilkakon on July 29, 2013, 03:37:19 AM

Here's the assassin file for you to look at Geo:

My original thanks moved to the graphics thread, so I'll take the opportunity for a +1 and thank you again. :D

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on August 02, 2013, 11:03:40 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 27, 2013, 04:26:24 AM

Is it possible you could upload the Crimson Comrade's graphics for me Ete? I am unfamiliar with editing wikis and this is all new to me.

I can, but it'd be much quicker overall if I could bulk crop and bulk upload factions in significant chunks than one by one, since automated cropping can do as many as are needed in only slightly more time than it takes me to do one.

I did the basic faction graphics upload for now though. For future reference, to upload files use this page http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Special:Upload (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Special:Upload) (it's linked in the left hand bar on every wiki page). Upload the main graphic to <textname>.png after converting it to PNG and the logo to <textname>_logo.png. In this example, textname is crimson.

Also, I do plan to improve how faction graphics are displayed at some point, most likely a gallery of autocropped bases, logos, leaderheads, etc.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 03, 2013, 05:59:54 AM

Thanks. Thought more on the clone idea and I think I am going to run with it, but I am modifying the original idea to make it more serious. I won't reveal anything on it yet but I think you guys will like it.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 05, 2013, 02:37:07 PM

New faction coming soon: Won't tell you crap about it. You can probably guess.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 16, 2013, 02:54:57 AM

Right, a new faction will be in replacement for the benevolents. I am still working on both this one and the secret one, and please note this is NOT the secret faction. (the one meant for the poll.)

I present to you, at least in concept, I know what I am doing for artwork and such,

The Wanderer's of Chiron.

Agenda: Peaceful Anarchist Enlightenment

Ideal: Knowledge
Anti Ideal: Police State

1+ Planet: Weathered nomads who are accustomed to the wastes and wilds of Chiron, they know how to live off the land.
4+ Efficiency: The Wanderer's are used to being on the move, and thus have become very efficient at traveling in caravans and small bands and using whatever resources they can encounter to the maximum amount of benefit. They are also very creative when it comes to making makeshift tools and solutions to problems out in the wastes of Chiron.
3- Industry: Nomadic tendencies means the Wanderer's do not establish very large permanent settlements, and they do not typically produce large amounts of machinery.
2- Growth: The Wanderer's life of nomadic existence does not help with child mortality rates, and the trading outposts are typically small, as people come and go.
3- Police: The Wanderer's resent strong authority, and do not want to have anyone dictating their decisions. They also do not respect authoritative measures, or aggression.
+20% Defence: The Wanderer's are very resilient guerrilla fighters who are fiercely opposed to invaders who wish to impose their will upon them. By traveling constantly and living off the land the Wanderer's become quite accustomed with surviving out in the wilds, as well as knowing the layout of the terrain of which they can optimize in battle.
Extra talent per base (1): The Wanderer's pursuit of individual enlightenment leads to very learned and wise individuals, as well as quite self sufficient people. Traveling the world and experiencing it has its benefits.

They start off with Industrial Automation: The Wanderer's are nomads who are used to taking their supplies and junk with them, (supply crawlers) and from scavenging they often obtain broken down machinery of which they jury rig to suit their needs.

Lore: After the destruction of many factions, multitudes of people gave up on most of the factions and their ideals and distrusted or wanted no part in the new arising factions. Disgruntled by all forms of authority and wanting to live out their lives how they individually chose, with no faction deciding for them, the Wanderer's formed primarily out of refugees.

The strongest voice of this movement was a former Usurper known by the name of Jatar. Jatar, after his factions destruction saw folly in the aggressive, and tyrannical methods of his fellow brethren had used in their quest for enlightenment and godhood. Still in faith of the ideal of finding one's true enlightenment and eventually, transcendence, Jatar rallied the disparate tribes and scattered peoples of Chiron, whether they be Progenitor or Human, and gathered them all under the identity of the Wanderer's of Chiron, those not bound by the chains of authority. Jatar's faction is anarchist, but the great many of bands and settlements that have arisen within the Wanderer's range greatly respect him and his ideals and many have followed suit in the quest, or "The Path" for enlightenment. Most of the Wanderer's adhere to his philosophy of "Walking The Path" both literally and philosophically: the vast majority of the Wanderer's are semi nomadic and live off the land, often salvaging materials from the wastes and trading them.

Jatar looks to the future, and he wishes to achieve transcendence and the individual enlightenment of all, but he wishes to do so peacefully where as his former leader Marr, sought to instill it through force (and only for the Progenitor race), of which failed.

This is a collaboration, concept wise, between me, Ete and Green1. Thank you both for your help.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on August 16, 2013, 06:19:58 AM

No problem, man.

Ete is a great librarian of knowledge on this game. I value his opinion greatly.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on August 16, 2013, 12:48:34 PM

I like the faction quite a lot, aside from it maybe having a few too many bonuses for my tastes, but that's hard to avoid when you've got multiple people giving their input and wanting to shape a faction. There's a lot going on and a lot of big bonuses/penalties, so it'll need some play to see how it works.

One thing we did not discuss is the ideology/anti-ideology, which is actually pretty important here. With PS as unusable they can't patch up their police rating unless/until they get the Ascetic Virtues, even if they are willing to sacrifice some of their effic. Maybe that's good and fitting, but if it proves to be too annoying it could be dropped in favour of a penalty to PS, or just dropped entirely. And less importantly, their ideology will cause them to be more warlike with factions going for wealth/power, is that something we want?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on August 16, 2013, 02:45:14 PM

I'd put in an artificial block to larger bases. The need to built a hab dome after size 3-4.
-2 Industry instead of -3.
Instead of a defense modifier, an attack modifier. AFAIK, guerilla fighters are most dangerous on the sudden/unexpected attack. Once located, they're usually destroyed pretty easily by a more tech-savvy opponent.
And a free supply crawler to start. :D

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 16, 2013, 09:59:27 PM

Not modifying it further probably, I've done some tests with a non graphics version of the faction.

Quote from: Geo on August 16, 2013, 02:45:14 PM

I'd put in an artificial block to larger bases. The need to built a hab dome after size 3-4.
-2 Industry instead of -3.
Instead of a defense modifier, an attack modifier. AFAIK, guerilla fighters are most dangerous on the sudden/unexpected attack. Once located, they're usually destroyed pretty easily by a more tech-savvy opponent.
And a free supply crawler to start. :D

This was brought up before, and I disagreed to that then and here's the reasoning: They get lower growth because of their lifestyle and conditions relating to that, not so much because the people themselves are more needy/they need more support then regular folks, like how Morgan's people like luxuries and such so they need more to satisfy them. The general idea of settlements in this faction is that they are trading towns/boom towns that develop by people passing through and such, and if they are more busy and remain that way, there is no gov't to really speak of that sets up "living quarters" for people. People provide their own housing, even if thats some junky shack in the settlement. The graphics of this faction will be almost like the buildings from a Fallout game: scrap metal filled, rusty junkyard towns that have a reminiscence to gold rush camps.

And while I am aware Guerrilla's are good on the offencive, having dealt with them, the logic here is that these people lure the enemy into ambushes or utilize traps/and other such things to bring an opponent into their line of fire and ambushes, rather then sneakily infiltrating and sabotaging, or doing total hit and run attacks. They are more of draw in an ambush then sneak up and attack. And gamewise speaking I am encouraging them to be rather passive, but if someone invades them they will turn their entire territory to an Afghanistan on steroids. Hard to fight in and brutal locals who know how to fight in their own lands.

Quote from: ete on August 16, 2013, 12:48:34 PM

I like the faction quite a lot, aside from it maybe having a few too many bonuses for my tastes, but that's hard to avoid when you've got multiple people giving their input and wanting to shape a faction. There's a lot going on and a lot of big bonuses/penalties, so it'll need some play to see how it works.

One thing we did not discuss is the ideology/anti-ideology, which is actually pretty important here. With PS as unusable they can't patch up their police rating unless/until they get the Ascetic Virtues, even if they are willing to sacrifice some of their effic. Maybe that's good and fitting, but if it proves to be too annoying it could be dropped in favour of a penalty to PS, or just dropped entirely. And less importantly, their ideology will cause them to be more warlike with factions going for wealth/power, is that something we want?

I do want them to be focused on knowledge, as they aren't going to care what people do economically, and they certainly don't want the most authoritarian style of gov't (besides thought control) - Police State- To be enforced on them. Their entire existence was founded against that.

Add in the fact that Knowledge, or the individual self enlightenment is their main philosophy in an anarchist, free society, knowledge is the appropriate choice. It also gives them appropriate enemies: More authoritarian factions or militaristic/expansionistic ones are going to target them, while the more democratic/pacifist factions are going to like them more.

So yes, it is intended.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on August 19, 2013, 03:02:49 AM

It is like my philosophy of gaming I used to tell my gaming group.

Balance is almost mandatory if you are talking tournaments or any MP competitions. That is, unless it is a historical scenario where one side is supposed to be at disadvantage ie: Panzer General's Battle of Berlin. No surviving that one. But, when it comes to SP or campaign, story trumps balance. Not saying that gives you the excuse to make them BU's Scotsnoobs :D.

Personally, what you got goes with story. Also is not very unbalanced.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 03:29:32 AM

Mhm, and when I create these factions I have three aims:

1. I want to make a different experience for players, a heightened one by giving them factions that are truly crazy. Factions that aren't overpowered, but tougher then their original counterparts. Factions that provide new and interesting challenges or new playstyles for the player to experience.
2. While I do like balance, the only thing that matters is that these factions are balanced enough for each other. You can of course use the original factions with them but they are purposefully meant to be stronger then the original: This makes sense story wise and gameplay wise as their very purpose of creation was to be powerful successors to the originals.
3.They were aimed to be canon friendly: These factions are aimed to fit in the SMAC universe and have history in it. They are supposed to feel like SMAC factions and feel like real ideals, something people would actually join up and form and be inspired to be in.
And the spirit of gritty warfare and ideological differences while settling a cruel, hostile untamed world with a mind of it's own is what I wanted to capture.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on August 19, 2013, 03:49:43 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 03:29:32 AM

Mhm, and when I create these factions I have three aims:

1. I want to make a different experience for players, a heightened one by giving them factions that are truly crazy. Factions that aren't overpowered, but tougher then their original counterparts. Factions that provide new and interesting challenges or new playstyles for the player to experience.
2. While I do like balance, the only thing that matters is that these factions are balanced enough for each other. You can of course use the original factions with them but they are purposefully meant to be stronger then the original: This makes sense story wise and gameplay wise as their very purpose of creation was to be powerful successors to the originals.
3.They were aimed to be canon friendly: These factions are aimed to fit in the SMAC universe and have history in it. They are supposed to feel like SMAC factions and feel like real ideals, something people would actually join up and form and be inspired to be in.
And the spirit of gritty warfare and ideological differences while settling a cruel, hostile untamed world with a mind of it's own is what I wanted to capture.

Well put.

Although some of the original factions do seem to hold their own against these from playing. These factions are not too OP at all.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on August 19, 2013, 04:05:05 AM

Of course I love Ete and Yitzi, too. They like to whip out the sliderules and scientific calculators. Their opinions will differ than mine :D Not to say that is bad.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 05:06:39 AM

Of course. That's why I included Ete in the discussions to get yours and Ete's two very differing opinions to help form the faction.

Speaking of factions... the secret one is almost ready for release!

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 07:49:51 AM

Notes: The story is being worked on and polished out still, but I got the base idea of it down. I am still trying to figure out what happened to all of the original factions (Mainly just ;zak; and the others. My AAR is a different "timeline" because the Betrayed and the Planet Cult under Jezebel are not part of my faction packs.)

Also a note: I am open for suggestions on this one, story or stats wise. But be advised I am not changing certain things about them,so don't be offended if I don't implement an idea, though I will consider it before I accept or reject it.
This is still somewhat a work in progress too so some things may be a bit imbalanced.

And here it is!

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/JarlWolf/Clonesscreen_zps6bfecf07.png)

Ideal: Thought Control
Anti Ideal: Fundamentalism
Agenda: Plutocratic Dictatorship

5+ Growth: Mass produced clones and very liberalistic views on sex.
2- Effic: Clones often have defects or deformities, either inherited or developed.
Cloning Facilities: Free Genejack Facilities
Underwater Metropolis: Free Pressure Domes
Thermal Vent Communities: Free Thermocline Transducer
Illiterate Clones: Penalty to Democracy
Industrialist Motives: Penalty to Green

"All Faction leaders claim a utopia for their followers on this world. I just claim that I want to live a life of luxury. Any are welcome to join me but I expect they are fine seeing their replica work hard."
- Portia Ponthieux, Clones and Caviar.

Lore: Portia was originally the Unity Geneticist, and one of the brightest intellectuals on the ship, save perhaps only for ;zak;. Growing up in France in a rather lavish household, she grew up in a wealthy family and was accustomed to the world of business: Both the luxuries it brought and the dark power struggles associated with it. Showing incredible aptitude to sciences she became an established scientist that pioneered the field of genome therapy, and she gathered the Unity projects attention when she pinpointed very effective methods for preservation of human tissue, and humans in general, via cloning technology. And she was the one who originally invented the Longevity Vaccine: which essentially kept the body from deteriorating by making the body have sustained, repairative growth. Her tremendous contribution to science got her a spot on the Unity, but when the crisis hit she originally went with Zak, as her interest in Science was still great and she wished to continue humanity's progress. However, the University was eventually rooted out both by extreme aggression by the Believers, monstrous experiments from within and the final nail in the coffin was when the Machine Mandate began the "Great Upheaval" and caused many machines to malfunction and revolt reduced the University to a ruined state. Many of the faction members including Portia left the faction and Portia at this point was only interested in a life of comfort and luxury. She figured that humanity's future would be better off progressing naturally and decided that personal happiness was the key to any society to function and she focused her society around that. Using technology she acquired from the University, she set out into the sea's to found a society undisturbed by the outer meddling of the other factions, the Pirates no longer a threat. She founded the Sons of Oceanus, who were founded simply on the pursuit of happiness, and a society with no gods or kings. She ruled as dictator but did not bother intervening in her citizens personal lives, and unlike the Imperium she allowed unrestrained scientific research and she cared more for luxury then for strength. To power her society's demand for labour she decided to use her scientific skills to utilize the use of mass produced clones to serve her and the "prime citizens." Clones were based off the citizens themselves but were purposefully genetically inferior and less intelligent then their original counterparts, bioengineered and bred for labour.

However her faction's complete lack of empathy and respect to the clones left them very embittered and the lack of regulation in her society for sex and other related practices led the populations of clones growing more severely inbred. Eventually her society evolved into an extreme caste society and she decided the best way to happiness for her personally, and to keep her followers content was to control them via luxury, entertainment or through genetic/chemical manipulation.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2013, 08:56:56 AM

Your leaderhead is a smokin' hot babe, something you can hardly go wrong doing. More tomorrow ~~when~~ if my brain is working...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 09:02:26 AM

Mhm.. I wanted a very sophisticated and tantalizingly sexually attractive leader for this faction, because a lot of her propaganda utilizes the emotion of lust for her and embodies her as an object of attraction to inspire both loyalty and love for the leader. Not saying she poses nude or in lewd fashions where she'd lose respect, but sort of where she plays with the emotions of her followers in more way then one... hard to describe I am still a bit groggy over here.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on August 19, 2013, 09:42:44 AM

hm, interesting, at +5 growth either Demo or Planned would be enough for a pop boom, but with a penalty to demo and planned bringing her to -4 effic (all non-HQ energy lost) she'd have a hard time getting there if not for creches. But creche=pop boom. I'd imagine with all those key facilities free and constant easy pop boom she'd be considerably overpowered compared to normal factions, though perhaps the drone problems would get so severe in AI hands that she'd be unable to cope with a large empire.. I'd have to test how playing with -1 Effic (Knowledge will be essential for her) works, and how long till drones (especially with GJ) become unbearable.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 07:19:52 PM

Yeah, I played with her faction a few times and she constantly has drone riots, and even with rec commons drone riots is her biggest problem. However she expands like crazy and makes lots of bases, though her research isn't lightning fast either.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2013, 08:04:03 PM

Along the same lines for a leader, this is Ukrainian beauty queen (and billionaire trophy wife) Oleksandra Niklo(something). These shots have been laying around my files for years...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 08:17:45 PM

So basically this faction is the World State meets Rapture? Unbridaled hedonism, a superior, libertine upper class supported by a genetically engineered worker caste? I'm not really sure if the stats necessarily support that. The +5 Growth doesn't really work for either source material; in Brave New World everyone was having sex all the time but contraception was mandatory, so infact growth was stagnant; and in an underwater civilization where space is at a premium, being in a constant state of population boom could be potentially disastrous. If anything, they'd have a growth penalty.

Instead, I should think that the bonuses would translate to improved Industry, due to having an abundant labor pool, and superior research and economy, due to having a highly educated and pampered consumer caste. Penalties would probably be to Morale or Growth, or both maybe. But that's just my angle on it.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on August 19, 2013, 08:22:54 PM

Genetically modified workers?
How about a severely stratified society with the uppies indome, and the lowdowns gill-enhanced and mostly toiling outdome?
Reminds me a bit of the Revelation Space Demarchist faction/society, on their Europa colony before their 'children' took the ice cities down.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 08:29:30 PM

Perhaps. Though the society has problems regulating the clones is why the growth would be so high:

Though I can change it if need be. Mind I did not say that "This is what America wants" I more or less said, "This is the 1% faction" meaning the 1% want a life of luxury and for society to support their endeavors.

I can certainly modify it though, a research focused faction is what I lack. It is inspired off of Rapture to a fair extent, but its not as... the word escapes me... but I think oppressive?

Hrm... maybe readjust this, have it with genejack factories+pressure domes, 1+ Talent, 2- Effic, and maybe something else... I'll have to think on it.

Edit: Geo, the society is basically like this:

Poshy, rich and powerful upper class that has all the joys and luxuries of life, as well as being able to pursue more advanced things supported by genetically modified (stupified) clones that work to their death. The clones reproduce like crazy and are kept in check mainly by automated defences, so there may be a ratio of 1 original or 1 rich and wealthy citizen as opposed to the 99 clones, but those 99 clones merely have some tools and can be gunned down by automatic gun emplacements all over the facility. But as you may suspect, drone riots are still common anyways, which is why I gave them the genejack factories (both for the cloning+riots.)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on August 30, 2013, 07:57:06 AM

Bumped so new folks can read.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 24, 2013, 06:19:55 AM

Just so you know I will eventually finish the last 2 factions, but my AAR comes first, among some other personal things.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on September 25, 2013, 05:47:18 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on September 24, 2013, 06:19:55 AM

Just so you know I will eventually finish the last 2 factions, but my AAR comes first, among some other personal things.

AARgggghhhhhh!!! ;grrr

;)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 25, 2013, 11:50:21 PM

Least there be some interest in it! ;lol

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 28, 2013, 07:33:51 AM

Right... im going to fix up the Clones. I just played a round with them and they are horribly overpowered. Being the lone sea faction they are pretty aggressive and expand like crazy... I think I am going to modify their stats.

Revised stats:
Agenda: Plutocratic Dictatorship. (Do note while she prefers Free Market, she is not averse to using planned: provided the planned economy is mainly supporting her and stifling any competition to her interests.)
Ideology: Thought Control
Anti-Ideology: Fundamentalism. (There is no gods in her society, and even though she likes to have her own personality cult and doesn't want religion obstructing her rule, going as far as claiming herself divine is a different matter entirely.)

1+ Research: Very intelligent, pampered upper class with no responsibility of physical labour leaves a lot of time to think, and the focus on science helps too.
Genejack Facility: Cloning operations of genetically modified workers that can survive (somewhat) outside the pressure domes. However, the brutality of their lives makes them very unhappy.
Pressure Dome: Being underwater, this is a must. The Sons of Oceanus are very adept at living underwater.
3- Support: The fact of living underwater, combined with the trouble controlling the clones means that it is hard initially build new settlements.
Penalty to Democracy: The majority of the clones are illiterate and often very angry, violent or deformed, and thus their decisionmaking is often affected. And being a form of genejack, they often have problems with thinking to begin with.
Penalty to Green: Industrialist Motives.
1+ Growth: The unrestrained, liberal views on sex combined with the problems regulating the clones leads to population problems.

Edit: I changed 3+ to 1+, my reasoning for this is due to her being an aquatic faction, and that she'll have time on her hands to expand, it'll mean she'll have undisturbed growth anyways. This way she's more balanced to boot too, and the with negative support and the drone problems with genejacks, it should limit her expansion and such.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 29, 2013, 05:57:15 AM

So, any thoughts?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 29, 2013, 06:01:00 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on September 28, 2013, 07:33:51 AM

Very intelligent, pampered upper class with no responsibility of physical labour leaves a lot of time to think,

Possibly. More likely, very intelligent, pampered upper class with no responsibility of physical labour leaves a lot of time to drink [intercourse]and fight.

-1 to police because they're overworked due to the above, and the upperclass can't be managed by mere cops who don't party with the leader?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 29, 2013, 06:39:22 AM

Quote from: BUncle on September 29, 2013, 06:01:00 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on September 28, 2013, 07:33:51 AM
Very intelligent, pampered upper class with no responsibility of physical labour leaves a lot of time to think,
Possibly. More likely, very intelligent, pampered upper class with no responsibility of physical labour leaves a lot of time to drink [intercourse]and fight.

-1 to police because they're overworked due to the above, and the upperclass can't be managed by mere cops who don't party with the leader?

Hrm. Possibly, but keep in mind they do have genejack facilities...

If I can fit that in though, I will. Keep in mind I have to give them doctrine flexibility as a starting tech, otherwise they'll be helpless and can't expand.

Let's review...

8 slots for it,

1. Doctrine Flexibility
2.Genejack factory
3.1+ Research
4.-3 Support
5. Pressure Domes
6.1+ Growth
7.Penalty to Democracy
8.Penalty to Green

Crap... think that be an issue... unless I remove 1+ growth and interchange it, but then they don't have a lot going for them unless I buffed research...

Further thoughts?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 29, 2013, 07:02:15 AM

Yes. I think my remark was very funny and you didn't laugh...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 29, 2013, 07:05:46 AM

Quote from: BUncle on September 29, 2013, 07:02:15 AM

Yes. I think my remark was very funny and you didn't laugh...

Oh I did, its just I didn't post the response. And we all know Portia has the biggest balls of them all.

AC/DC - Big Balls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g23GiivXC78#)

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 29, 2013, 08:00:19 AM

I am also thinking of modifying the Imperium again too:
I want to represent that they are a brutal slaver empire thats mercantalist, a strong cemented monarchy with constant slave revolts.

Some of you may be thinking: whats the difference between the Imperium's ideology and that of the Sons of Oceanus?

Well, the answer remains among this: Portia is more about living in luxury and does not care if people earn it, all she cares about is that the wealth and material to keep her ambitions and the luxuries around her and those who are her citizens remains a constant. She doesn't promise a utopia or a perfect society by basis of ideology, rather simply by pure bliss, coupled with pursuing a person's passions. This is at the expense of the clones of course.

Now the Imperium is an entirely different mindset: They value strength above anything else. The people at top may be cruel at times and insidiously wealthy, but they all technically earned it/made their way from the bottom to the top. A clone in the Sons of Oceanus will never become a citizen, but a slave, if they work hard enough and please their masters, or better yet somehow kill or become greater then their masters, can achieve freedom and more. It's a might makes right society and there is many ways to power and ascertaining one's strength. Sepsu himself, while he is a monarch and his son will most likely inherit his rule, there is a chance someone else can succeed the throne if they prove stronger then either Sepsu or his sons.
Both societies are harsh and follow concepts/pursuits of wealth, but for entirely different reasons and the core structure of the society is different. Sepsu is all about empire and growth, he's not really focused so much on wealth as maintaining his empire. He believes his society brings out the strongest in the human race and that his society is what is needed on this planet to ensure humanity's continued survival. Creed of the strong, the strongest survives and the weakest dies. That doesn't mean he doesn't believe in law and order mind, he also believes a truly strong society can govern itself and live under laws. No one ever said anything that those laws had to be lenient though.

While Portia on the other hand, merely wants to live life in luxury and let people pursue their passions. Even if it's at the expense of others.

And even their backgrounds somewhat reflect this. Sepsu came from a war torn childhood on Earth, and he had to strive to be strong just to survive. He worked with Morgan a fair bit on Earth too, and even his physiology reflects his ideal based on strength: Sepsu is a VERY large and muscular man, he stands at 217 CM tall (roughly 7'1 feet.) and weighs close to 155 KG. (roughly 344 pounds.)

He's a giant among men and he's trained himself to be physically fit to a premium. Even guy like Mraxis or Vazheli would have problems fighting him in close qaurters, and Mraxis is a crazed, bloodthirsty psychopath when he fights.

While on the other hand, Portia came from a relatively wealthy, stable background. (at least in terms of domestic life)

Edit: Also on the note of physical information on the leaders... I suppose I could do that. I need Ete to create the pages for me, I have trouble doing it myself. Once they are created I can punch in all of the necessary information.

Edit: Going to revise a few stats actually then once im done balancing them, im going to get my final faction out and done with.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Geo on September 29, 2013, 10:27:24 AM

Instead of a penalty, you could let them have an aversion of either democracy or green.
I don't know out of my head, but if one of the attributes you want to give that faction is a minor attribute, you don't have to get rid of the +1 growth.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 29, 2013, 07:13:58 PM

Hrm. The only issue with fundamentalism is her state is atheistic, and the only sort of "worship" would be for herself.

And as for Sepsu, he believes in Free market, and I only want him to be able to use that and not planned, (otherwise his growth will be insane.) I'm just trying to figure out whether I should change out his police penalty to something else... because I want him to be able to brutally enforce his law, or appease his people with bread and circuses type of mentality. The point is he does something to counteract the massive unrest. He runs an empire after all.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on September 30, 2013, 03:36:33 PM

I actually had minimal problems with the clones in my all aquatic game, and I was playing a moderately weak faction (these guys http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Planet_Freight (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Planet_Freight) ). Few of my foes were particularly strong factions either, Aquatic Cult and Hive, the two sea weeds (procyon and bree) which tend to be not too hard to fight after their initial growth.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on September 30, 2013, 11:42:33 PM

That's an all aquatic game though, in my pack Portia is the only aquatic faction, and thus less competition.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 01, 2013, 02:20:02 PM

Just posting to say keep it up Jarl :D

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on October 01, 2013, 06:11:44 PM

True, but.. I've used a lot of the aquatic factions in my all aquatic game before, in normal games, and they've not been particularly dangerous. Less than the pirates even.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Green1 on October 02, 2013, 01:20:08 AM

I do not use aquatic factions that much because i play a lot of single player and the ancient single-threaded AI does not seem to use good tactics with naval power.

I also think there are not enough special abilities to distinguish Naval Power factions. For instance, I think Sven could benefit from a "pillage" mechanic like Rangar in Civ 4. After all, if his agenda is "pillage and burn", his AI should be pillaging and burning. Sven also does not use invasion forces right or can be much more than a nuisance to land locked factions.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 01:47:22 AM

I've lost cities in LE to transport drops before, but as you say it is rarely done well.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 02:41:51 AM

Quote from: Green1 on October 02, 2013, 01:20:08 AM

I do not use aquatic factions that much because i play a lot of single player and the ancient single-threaded AI does not seem to use good tactics with naval power.

I also think there are not enough special abilities to distinguish Naval Power factions. For instance, I think Sven could benefit from a "pillage" mechanic like Rangar in Civ 4. After all, if his agenda is "pillage and burn", his AI should be pillaging and burning. Sven also does not use invasion forces right or can be much more than a nuisance to land locked factions.

That's why I am aiming for a more economic/technological threat then a militaristic one.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 02:47:57 AM

What sort of changes to the Imperium's stats were you considering?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 03:02:42 AM

That's the thing, I am not sure. It was mainly just in terms of their Police score: I want them to reflect a brutal, strong empire that either has to violently suppress its contingents of slaves or appease the mob. It is inspired heavily off of ancient empires, especially Rome and Ancient Greece. And the problem with a negative police score is that it limits how many military units you can use to police a city, when a larger military as Sepsu is encouraged. Mind he till makes a large military, but that's just because he's an economic colossus.

I may not bother to change it, but I am just thinking on it.

Factions im happy with are the Crimson Comrades, I just think changes to them are redundant/would change their flavour too much (I know the penalty to free market is pointless, but im too lazy to change it as there are other pressing matters.) And I am happy with how the rest of them play out. It's just the Clones for certain, and possibly Imperium that could use changes.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 03:06:49 AM

For sure! Yeah your CC faction is pretty loved as is at the moment. I recall their refusal to die in Green's AAR haha~.

Military factions tend to get a positive police score due to the increased military about, although you could have a small penalty and more support to make it a bit more interesting.

Have you made art for the clones yet? :) Sorry if I managed to miss it.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2013, 03:09:52 AM

It strikes me that if the Imperium isn't an aristocracy with an entire ruling class that has pretentions to Noble class status, it should be.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Yitzi on October 02, 2013, 03:36:18 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 03:02:42 AM

That's the thing, I am not sure. It was mainly just in terms of their Police score: I want them to reflect a brutal, strong empire that either has to violently suppress its contingents of slaves or appease the mob.

Perhaps a substantial penalty to TALENT and/or extra drones, but give them a bonus to POLICE and free hologram theaters?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 05:27:08 AM

Quote from: BUncle on October 02, 2013, 03:09:52 AM

It strikes me that if the Imperium isn't an aristocracy with an entire ruling class that has pretentions to Noble class status, it should be.

Their ideology prevents that for the most part: It's a do or die mentality society, total self made man style capitalism in a slaver society, and Sepsu and his loyalists ensures that, as does the natural status quo of the empire. He's an Emperor, but the people up top earned their position: And someone could potentially replace him as well.

This society is more equivalent to Ancient Rome then a Medieval society: You have an all powerful Emperor with wealthy senator/merchant style citizens who can be knocked from power at any moment. Sepsu just keeps a very tight grip on his power is why he hasn't been knocked down, and that he is a strong leader.

In fact, a source of pride is drawn from among the upper class of their roots and rise to the top: it's an integral part of faction identity, making your own way in the Empire and rising from nothing to riches. If your looking for the closest thing to Nobility, that would probably be the Clones, as they have a literal genetic caste system.

While a slave in the Imperium has bitter chances of becoming free, its not impossible. Slaves that show strength and manage to dominate other ones or prove themselves to their owners typically get some limelight, and some of the richest Magnates and merchants within the Imperium Crescint were once miserable slaves toiling in wretched factories. Though in order to rise that high, you need to be willing to sell your scruples for the most part. Every merchant on top in the Imperium had to get his or her hands dirty at one point, and probably kill the next in line or ruin them to get ahead.

Actually, on that note I think a police penalty does make sense... the society isn't lawless, but there is loads of corruption and social problems in the society. Right... content with that then...

The Clones definitely need a nerf though, recent games with them have shown to be overpowered.

Also, on note of the Clones...
Kilkakon:

Quote from: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 03:06:49 AM

For sure! Yeah your CC faction is pretty loved as is at the moment. I recall their refusal to die in Green's AAR haha~.

Military factions tend to get a positive police score due to the increased military about, although you could have a small penalty and more support to make it a bit more interesting.

Have you made art for the clones yet? :) Sorry if I managed to miss it.

Indeed I have. Feast your eyes.

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/JarlWolf/Clonesscreen_zps6bfecf07.png)

As for the support, Support usually (in my mind at least) indicates resources or amounts of support the populace/system gives to the overall group. Which in the Imperium, wouldn't really be there, resources are competed for, people are out for themselves. In factions say like, the Believers who follow a Christian mindset, there is a bit more of a sense of community and citizens are willing to lend a hand and support their faith. Or in the Crimson Comrades, where things are communalized and resources are stockpiled and communally shared combined with loads of volunteers.

Quote from: Yitzi on October 02, 2013, 03:36:18 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 03:02:42 AM
That's the thing, I am not sure. It was mainly just in terms of their Police score: I want them to reflect a brutal, strong empire that either has to violently suppress its contingents of slaves or appease the mob.

Perhaps a substantial penalty to TALENT and/or extra drones, but give them a bonus to POLICE and free hologram theaters?

I think I might decrease their police penalty a small bit and add extra drones instead (if I can.). I don't want them having free facilities other then Childrens creche (Sepsu's background in fertility research, which is also a side thing to promote growth) and I want their exploding, imperialistic population to have struggles maintaining order, at least at first.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 05:32:32 AM

I like that leaderhead. :) I might suggest squashing it horizontally very slightly, but otherwise it looks great and gives that air of being a femme fatale.

I think 1 in 4 drones could work well yeah. :D

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 05:38:13 AM

Quote from: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 05:32:32 AM

I like that leaderhead. :) I might suggest squashing it horizontally very slightly, but otherwise it looks great and gives that air of being a femme fatale.

I think 1 in 4 drones could work well yeah. :D

Was thinking more like 1/3 ;lol

If I squash it more it doesn't fill the entire picture plane sadly. So she'll have to remain as such.

And yes, she is indeed a femme fatale: Her society is inspired by Rapture and a few other sources, and she's basically got her own personality cult. The Sons of Oceanus are also pretty hedonistic and love their luxury and recreation, and while she isn't the type to show herself with no reservations (she's has some decency/self respect), she does play on the emotion of lust with her followers.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on March 20, 2014, 01:42:30 AM

Bumping up for all comrades to see

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 20, 2014, 01:46:38 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on October 02, 2013, 05:38:13 AM

Quote from: Kilkakon on October 02, 2013, 05:32:32 AM
I like that leaderhead. :) I might suggest squashing it horizontally very slightly, but otherwise it looks great and gives that air of being a femme fatale.
If I squash it more it doesn't fill the entire picture plane sadly. So she'll have to remain as such.

Pretty easy to fill in that blank-ish background...

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: vv221 on May 07, 2014, 03:49:40 PM

Just discovered this thread from JarlWolf's post here:
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=8557.msg48634#msg48634 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=8557.msg48634#msg48634)

After I read the factions descriptions, I downloaded them all without an afterthought!
While I'm not a "power gamer", I have no idea how well they fare in game, but my first after-reading thought has been this:
"If there had been a second extension to Alpha Centauri, this is what its factions would have looked like!"

Well, that and being one of those awful commies myself, I couldn't resist the call to play The Crimson Comrades in one of my future playthrough ;)

Are those factions intended to be played all together?
Or do they mix well with Alpha Centauri or Alien Crossfire ones?

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on May 07, 2014, 05:42:33 PM

Personal advice from a fellow dirty red [progeny of unmarried parents]-

These factions are ALL intended to be played with one another. Its also fun to play these in conjunction with Sigma's faction pack if you ever feel like switching it up.

While you can still have fun mixing these with the original SMAC and SMAX factions, these factions here are intended to be "successors" of both those former group of factions. These factions lore wise are the results of all the others collapsing/evolving into these ones, and are a fair bit stronger. However, the originals can STILL give you a challenge and still provide a decent game, these factions aren't total power houses. They are just a bit more extreme then the originals is all, and that can bend either way in terms of how your game goes- it can either help you, or bite you in the ass with the penalties.

And don't underestimate any of the factions in this pack. They are all extreme and very tough competitors in their own aspect. I would never tread on the Valhallans unless I knew I was far ahead in the tech race and outnumbered them.

I would never try to out produce the Machine Mandate unless I had way more cities and production capacity from just expanding more.

They all have very good strengths, but also pincering weaknesses.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on May 07, 2014, 10:07:14 PM

If you want to use a normal faction in a game with a bunch of these, I recommend taking it down a difficulty level or two unless you want a massive challenge or are finding your standard difficulty level significantly too easy. Some of them are absolutely brutal to start near (fighting the Valhallans as a normal faction is worse than landing on top of Marr as Morgan on a tiny island, I've done both), and some become monstrous later on in the game. If you're using the CCs you should be okay, but even if you use them seriously don't let the Imperium get going. I had one game where they took out virtually everyone else while I was isolated, and only *just* held them off using a combination of chokepoint and air power, they were losing 5+ units for each of mine because terrible tactical AI but still pushing me back because of the massive SP, tech, and production advantage that comes from owning the planet with constant pop boom. I've never felt threatened that far into a game before.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 02, 2014, 03:58:51 PM

All the factions can be pretty mean if given the right circumstances- I had games where the Iron Regime, Richard Warrick just dominated an entire faction and was steamrolling right from the start. The fascists typically get lazers early on and just roll with it, even with blind research as I typically play as. And the Machine Mandate's productive power is frightening especially if they put it to secret projects.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 03, 2014, 08:49:12 AM

I realize how long I have left this unfinished, along with the long haitus with my AAR... but I will say this:

I am going to finish this and get the wanderers of Chiron in, and then I am going to consider either carrying on with my AAR or restarting it, having it with all of my factions.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: Flux on October 06, 2014, 12:32:43 AM

Crimson Comrades? Bah.
My faction is the Reagan Republic.
"JarlWolf, tear down this wall!"
You should make an AAR of yourself fighting Reaganites.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on October 06, 2014, 03:25:31 AM

I'll tear down his wall and facade of capitalism, surely. Maybe for my next AAR I might feature the Reaganites... but I'll have to think of faction composition..

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on November 16, 2014, 11:04:50 PM

Could you make the upload attached to the main post include all your factions? Oceanus is hidden partway through the thread, and I can't seem to find wanderers anywhere?

It'd also be easier for users to install if the file had all the factions in one, rather than individual folders.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on November 17, 2014, 02:36:38 PM

I never finished Wanderers unfortuately. But here you go.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: ete on November 17, 2014, 04:10:12 PM

Okay, thanks.

Title: Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
Post by: JarlWolf on April 21, 2015, 08:18:18 AM

Am post to show to new people. Will become more active when time permit. Busy recently.

Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: JarlWolf on July 08, 2013, 05:50:41 AM