Author Topic: SMACX AI Growth mod  (Read 38152 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChaDawnFanatic

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #315 on: January 17, 2019, 01:24:26 AM »
Awesome!  ;b;


 :danc:

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #316 on: January 17, 2019, 03:20:11 AM »
Enjoy!  I hope.  Well I think it's better than 1.26 or I wouldn't have made it.  Definitely took a wrong turn making Politics and Economics choices difficult to obtain, in that version.  There are so many "early" techs now, the tree has gotten quite broad at the beginning.  If those choices aren't Tier 2 it takes forever to get them, and that's just boring.

Offline ChaDawnFanatic

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #317 on: January 18, 2019, 04:23:32 AM »
I invite you to visit my website:

www.avsgs.us

It's about planet.

 ;deidre;

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #318 on: January 18, 2019, 06:28:18 AM »
Methinks me needs some mindworm stew!  You know Cha Dawn had an answer for this, right?  Throw the humans to the worms.

I'd be happy to eat 'meat' grown from a vat, but we don't seem to be quite there yet.  '3D printed meat' is an area of active research though.

Insectivorism would be a rational choice.  Unless you grow your own crops and allow insects to rampage a lot of it, billions of insects are going to die for the vegetables you buy anyways.  That's the cost of outsourcing the labor.

My attempts to go vegetarian, not even vegan, have always been complete failures.  Within 2 days my brain stops working.  I don't know what the missing ingredients are, other than I get them from meat.  No amount of various supplements has helped.  I think a core problem of vegan movements, is some people's biologies don't seem to take it well.  I think I am one of these.  I did not choose my biology, so that's part of how I think about the moral calculus of these things.

I think Nature is evil, not neutral.  The evolution of predator species is based on violence and destruction.  I am part of the evil.  Nature also produces good though.  Good is usually reserved for your own family group.  Evil is an expense borne by others.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #319 on: February 18, 2019, 06:47:14 AM »
CHANGELOG
Changed from version 1.27 to 1.28:

ATROCITIES:
- Repeal U.N. Charter: moved to C2 Doctrine: Loyalty.  It should be with Fundamentalist politics.
- Reinstate U.N. Charter: moved to B2 Industrial Economics.  It should be with Democratic politics.
- Retroviral Engineering: now a C5 tech.  Genetic plagues in combo with chemical weapons attacks are extremely effective in wiping out bases.  It's not that difficult to Repeal the U.N. Charter.  Planet doesn't retalliate when minor atrocities are legal, so this strategy becomes consequence free.  Before it was a Tier 3 tech, which is too soon for such power.

PROBE TEAMS:
- Probe team module: moved to D1 Information Networks.
- Information Networks: set power=3.  Having it as a pure Discover tech is too difficult a barrier for non-Discover factions.  It's possible for all factions in the game to be non-Discover.  This creates de facto tech stagnation.  It's highly unlikely to have only non-Conquer factions in the game.
- Polymorphic Software: now a C2 tech.  Basically swapping places, so that this slot gives something other than just a probe team.
- Planetary Networks: now a C3 tech.  Basically swapping places.  The Command Nexus is global, so it sounds more appropriate.
- The Command Nexus: moved to C3 Planetary Networks.
- Probe Team predefined unit: now available with C2 Polymorphic Software.
- Foil Probe Team predefined unit: moved to C2 Adaptive Doctrine.
- C2 techs that give probe teams, now take D1 Information Networks as a prereq.
- Slider Probe Team: new predefined unit available with C5 Retroviral Engineering.  Hovertank chassis.

FACTIONS:
- Data Angels: set research foci to Explore, Build.  Removed free Planetary Networks tech.  They get every tech that any 3 factions have, so they will learn how to make probe teams fairly quickly.  Although a pure Build focus might enable them to make more money sooner, Explore tells the AI to put more effort into growing an empire, which will probably also make money.  The Explore tree has gotten fatter, making it a distraction from other concerns, but factions with only a pure Build focus do not have a good performance track record.

MINDWORM TECHS:
- The Neural Amplifier: moved to C4 Bioadaptive Resonance.  This consolidates mindworm oriented techs better.
- Centauri Preserve: moved to E5 Centauri Psi.  Reducing eco-damage shall be considered more of an Explore / Psi tech, even though it does also help Build.
- Neural Grafting: now a C6 tech.  Set growth=0.  It no longer gives a mindworm oriented tech.  I don't want Bioenhancement Center available early, it throws off the defensive balance.
- Brood Pit: moved to E7 The Will To Power.  Previously it was too easy to get.
- Temple of Planet: moved to D9 Secrets of Alpha Centauri.  Previously it was too easy to get.
- Secrets of Alpha Centauri: set growth=3, as it now gives the Temple of Planet.

WEAPONS TOO CHEAP:
- Particle Impactor: now costs 5.  25% cost increase.
- Gatling Laser: now costs 7.  40% cost increase.
- Missile Launcher: now costs 9.  50% cost increase.
- Chaos Gun: now costs 16.  100% cost increase.  Fusion reactors come late midgame and make everything far too cheap.  The Chaos Gun seems to be a game ending weapon in practice, so its cost is doubled.
- Phaser: now costs 22.  120% increase.
- Tachyon Bolt: now costs 30.  150% cost increase.  Quantum reactors come late game and make everything too cheap.
- Resonance Bolt: now costs 35.  150% cost increase.
- Plasma Shard: now costs 35.  150% cost increase.
- Chronoton Gun: now costs 40.  150% cost increase.
- Graviton Gun: now costs 50.  150% cost increase.
- Singularity Laser: now costs 72.  200% cost increase.  Singularity reactors make everything way too cheap.
- Black Hole Gun: now costs 105.  250% cost increase over attack rating.
- Needlejet chassis: now costs 20.  It was way too cheap with fusion reactors.
- Gravship chassis: now costs 30.  It was way too cheap with fusion reactors.
- Conventional Payload: now costs 15.  It was way too cheap with fusion reactors.
- Tectonic Payload: now costs 10.  It was way too cheap with fusion reactors.
- Fungal Payload: now costs 6.  It was too cheap with fusion reactors, but it's not a very good weapon.
- Unity Jet: new predefined unit which replaces the Unity Air Supply.  The latter became far too valuable with the change in chassis cost.

ARMOR TOO CHEAP:
- Silksteel Armor: now costs 8.  60% cost increase over defense rating.
- Photon Wall: now costs 12.  100% cost increase.
- Probability Sheath: now costs 16.  100% cost increase.
- Neutronium Armor: now costs 24.  100% cost increase.
- Pulse 12 Armor: now costs 28.  100% cost increase.
- Resonance 12 Armor: now costs 28.  100% cost increase.
- Antimatter Plate: now costs 40.  100% cost increase.
- Inertial Damper: now costs 60.  100% cost increase over defense rating.

BUFFS AND DEBUFFS:
- High Morale: moved to C3 Planetary Networks.
- Fuel Nanocells: moved to C5 Nanominiaturization.
- Nanominiaturization: set growth=3.  Fuel Nanocells increase movement range.
- Mind/Machine Interface: now a C7 tech.  Still has growth=0.  Wasn't actually changed in version 1.27.  Doesn't give Fuel Nanocells now.  I don't want the Cyborg Factory available early, it throws off the defensive balance.
- Soporific Gas Pods: moved to C7 Mind/Machine Interface.  Now costs 4.  They're exteremely effective.  I don't want them available early, they throw off the defensive balance.
- Dissociative Wave: now costs 4.  Debuffs are gonna be 100% extra cost.

TERRAFORMING:
- Rover Formers: new predefined unit available with B3 Ecological Engineering. 
- Drill to Aquifer: now available with B3 Ecological Engineering.  It shouldn't be hard to make an artificial river, even in real life.
- Thermal Borehole: now available with B4 Industrial Automation.  This is for lore, as the quote is about the borehole pressure mines.
- Organic Superlubricant: set wealth=3.  Hovertanks are rather useful for terraforming.
- Fungicidal Slider Formers: new predefined unit available with C5 Nanominiaturization.  Hovertank chassis, good for removing and building over fungus.
- Bio-Engineering: now a B5 tech.  I didn't have enough Build techs later in the tree.
- Soil Enricher: now available with B5 Planetary Economics.  I want to spread the improvements out some.
- +1 Mining Platform bonus: now available with B5 Planetary Economics.  This is in sync with availability of Subsea Trunkline.
- Advanced Ecological Engineering: now a B6 tech.  Set power=3 because it builds roads and rails faster, and allows land to be raised and lowered.  I didn't have enough build techs later in the tree.

SPACE:
- Missile Launcher: moved to C6 Orbital Spaceflight.  The lore fits better here.
- The Space Elevator: moved to B7 Industrial Nanorobotics.  Gaining this before Orbital Spaceflight didn't make any sense.  Now it is a prereq.
- Industrial Nanorobotics: set power=3 and growth=3.  The Space Elevator allows movement by drop pod to anywhere on Planet.
- The Living Refinery: moved to B8 Nanometallurgy.  It fits the lore better, as the Secret Project video is of asteroid mining.

MISC:
- Industrial Economics: set wealth=4.  It shouldn't be exaggerated with a 5.
- Optical Computers: set power=3, wealth=3, and growth=3.  It does provide all these techs.  The Discover focused factions already have a sufficient head start obtaining the Planetary Datalinks, it doesn't need to be a giveaway for them.
- Eudaimonia: set wealth=3, making it an Explore tech.  It doesn't give the Space Elevator, nor does it give an ECONOMY bonus anymore, so it's more about growth now.
- Homo Superior: set power=4 and growth=3, making it a Conquer tech again. 
- Sentient Econometrics: set growth=3 because The Self-Aware Colony gives an extra police unit.
- changed many prereqs to keep continuity of research foci.

The attachment limit per post is 5, and I eventually ran out of room at the top of the thread.  Consequently, this becomes the new home of version 1.28.  It was downloaded 148 times before I moved it here.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 03:29:15 AM by bvanevery »

Offline ChaDawnFanatic

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #320 on: February 27, 2019, 12:07:42 AM »
Where is the hub?  ::)

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #321 on: February 27, 2019, 05:36:50 AM »
The what?

Offline dweeze

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #322 on: February 27, 2019, 05:58:31 AM »
OK, so I've setup an AI Growth game as Spartans. It's throwing me a bit with working out the tech tree progression (after ~20 years of std tree) but I'm enjoying many of the changes. It's 2214 and I am researching cruisers - Air power next? I've only seen Industrial Automation offered once in the research options and selected something else. Could I get planes before crawlers? Still don't have probe teams either. That said, I've hemmed in Morgan on our shared continent, traded tech regularly with everyone and only had a brief war with Deidre and am neck-n-neck with Lal for el Supremo.

One other odd one - just had a probe foil return after a successful infiltration mission and it got put in a base that has a 2 square lake (that is not connected to the sea), rendering the foil useless. Not sure if this is a generic game bug or mod related. I ran a test by building a Heavy transport on a Rover chassis (thinking that it might be like a boat trailer) but could not load the boat. Would this be possible in a future release? If not, guess I'll have to disband this veteran spy boat.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #323 on: February 27, 2019, 06:27:41 AM »
Could I get planes before crawlers?

Yep.  Planes are primarily Conquer, secondarily Explore.  Crawlers are primarily Build, secondarily Conquer, and it's preceded by a pile of Build techs with no Conquer component to them.  If you haven't been focusing on Build, you're not going to get crawlers.  Similarly, if you haven't been focusing on Conquer, you're not going to get planes.

Quote
Still don't have probe teams either.

If you are playing version 1.28, that should not be happening.  The probe team module is available with D1 Information Networks, and it's a Discover + Conquer technology.  Ok, if you didn't focus on either of those, maybe it's possible not to get it, but that would be your choice.

Quote
One other odd one - just had a probe foil return after a successful infiltration mission and it got put in a base that has a 2 square lake (that is not connected to the sea), rendering the foil useless. Not sure if this is a generic game bug or mod related.

Generic game problem.  Enjoy your well defended lake.

Quote
I ran a test by building a Heavy transport on a Rover chassis (thinking that it might be like a boat trailer) but could not load the boat.

Heavy Transport simply increases the capacity of a Transport module.  A Transport module does not load boats, ever.  It loads land units.  So you can have a truck that carries a land unit over land, but you can't carry a boat.  If you make the Transport into a carrier, then it can carry air units.  Land units or air units, that's all you get to do.  It's hardwired into the game and can't be changed by .txt modding.

Quote
If not, guess I'll have to disband this veteran spy boat.

You don't have to disband it.  It's not costing you any support.  You could leave it there to defend against probe team incursions.  Now of course if the minerals from disbanding are useful to you, by all means do so.  If you want to be goofy, you could wait until you get Psi Gates at the very end of the game, and get it out of there that way.  Or sooner, you could dig a canal.

Offline dweeze

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #324 on: February 27, 2019, 07:48:14 AM »

Yep.  Planes are primarily Conquer, secondarily Explore.  Crawlers are primarily Build, secondarily Conquer, and it's preceded by a pile of Build techs with no Conquer component to them.  If you haven't been focusing on Build, you're not going to get crawlers.  Similarly, if you haven't been focusing on Conquer, you're not going to get planes.
Gotcha. I've had my favourite pattern of IA for crawlers >> Cruisers (& Maritime project) >> Air Power >> ==DOMINATE for years. I haven't really followed Conquer / Explore / etc trees in the past. I might have to look at this one differently.

Quote
If you are playing version 1.28, that should not be happening.  The probe team module is available with D1 Information Networks, and it's a Discover + Conquer technology.  Ok, if you didn't focus on either of those, maybe it's possible not to get it, but that would be your choice.
Yes - 1.28 it is. Probes did come up, but only once & I picked something else. Ditto as per above re different approach required perhaps...

Quote
Generic game problem.  Enjoy your well defended lake.
:)

Quote
Heavy Transport simply increases the capacity of a Transport module.  A Transport module does not load boats, ever.  It loads land units.  So you can have a truck that carries a land unit over land, but you can't carry a boat.  If you make the Transport into a carrier, then it can carry air units.  Land units or air units, that's all you get to do.  It's hardwired into the game and can't be changed by .txt modding.
Ok, hardwired it is then.

Quote
You don't have to disband it.  It's not costing you any support.  You could leave it there to defend against probe team incursions.  Now of course if the minerals from disbanding are useful to you, by all means do so.  If you want to be goofy, you could wait until you get Psi Gates at the very end of the game, and get it out of there that way.  Or sooner, you could dig a canal.
We'll see...

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #325 on: February 27, 2019, 06:07:16 PM »
One of the basic ideas of this mod, is not to make it easy for you to abuse supply crawlers or factories.  You have to wait quite some time to get them, even if you're researching a straight Build path.

You might be interested to know that Drop Pods are available on ships and planes now.  I figure it's the future, why not?

Problem is, dropping a ship onto land will get it killed.  It'll sit there like nothing's wrong, then next turn it'll vanish because it's a ship on land.  So that sounds pretty useless, doesn't it?  Not quite.  You can drop ships onto a coastal land base.  This can get your ships to bodies of water that are otherwise landlocked or inconvenient.

It can also rescue a Drop Destroyer Probe Team from a landlocked city like you've been stuck with.  See, all you have to do is get Doctrine: Air Power and spend more time in the factory, then all is good!

Offline vonbach

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #326 on: February 27, 2019, 11:35:57 PM »
One problem I've noticed is its not easy to crack bases in this mod. Its easier to simply go mindworm spam.
Mostly because the weapons seem to keep level with armor the whole game.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #327 on: February 28, 2019, 05:23:07 AM »
Base defense is deliberate.  They're supposed to be strong points, and Sensor Arrays make a big difference as well.  It's pretty much standard drill now, that you have to get rid of Sensor Arrays to deal with a base.  And if it's got a Perimeter Defense, you might have to hit it with several probe teams until sabotage finally takes it out.  Then you have to have enough weapons and morale to overcome the defenders.  Even mindworms are not a certainty here, as AIs do make a certain amount of Trance Scout or other kinds of Trance units.  Bases are crackable, but getting into one is a bit of a drill.  You have to do some steps.

I'm not really worried if the player is challenged by this.  That's by design.  I do worry if I've made it too hard for the AIs, if they'll just stalemate on these difficult bases.  My jury is out on that.

One could of course resort to chemical attacks and genetic plagues.  They're very effective in tandem.  Chems are available at the very beginning, but plagues take a long time to get the tech.  It was too cake when plagues were early.  You'll probably also want to legalize the minor atrocities, as otherwise Planet will destroy you in vengeance for your transgressions.

I'm finally testing Thinker mod with my mod.  The early returns are, I'm the dead last faction.  But despite that, I'm safe, nobody's bringing war to me, and I've built just as many Secret Projects as anyone else.

I'm the Data Angels, which in my mod get any tech that 3 other factions have discovered.  No need to infiltrate, as it's unrealistic to expect the AI to ever do that.  I may have lucked out in the faction I got, in that the Data Angels do somewhat well when other factions are doing really well.  Not sure if I'd do ok with a different faction, short of building the Planetary Datalinks to get the same result.  But I haven't really been in any serious military conflict, so don't even know if the AI poses a credible military threat.  It definitely can't threaten me at a distance, when I deliberately made alliances with my next door neighbors early on.

Even before I started, I wondered to what degree Thinker relies on exploits in the stock tech tree.  Like thermal borehole and supply crawler abuse, for instance.  Not gonna happen so easily in my mod, because I made those come substantially later.  Then again, the AIs have got Industrial Automation now, which provides both crawlers and boreholes.  So now it's just about how Thinker prioritizes.

Offline vonbach

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #328 on: February 28, 2019, 02:24:45 PM »
I can get in them its just that I've simply found mindworm spam easier. All you need is some infantry or rovers to destroy sensors and
trance units and your good. I don't even bother with building conventional units  anymore. I doubt the AI gets in cities that well though.
Its a challenge for me at least.  I've never used genetic plagues or chemical warfare at all.
I'm curious on how your mod and the thinker mod will integrate. Good luck.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 3523
  • €2042
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #329 on: February 28, 2019, 03:21:55 PM »
The core design problem is, let's say mindworms are a cakewalk.  If I also make regular weapons a cakewalk, I don't think I've solved anything!  The game is still too easy.  I think I would need to make it harder to use mindworms, not easier to use regular weapons.

In my test game, Thinker is ramping up its borehole thing now.  Got some nasty Morganic cities with 40 minerals production coming at me now.  So far it's not using that output well though.  Morgan has got -3 PLANET and -3 MORALE, those are his weaknesses.  As the Data Angels I've got probe team strength, but not enough money to take over Morganic bases.  Although maybe I could steal a lot of Morgan's money...


 

* User

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


Login with username, password and session length

Select language:

* Community poll

SMAC v.4 SMAX v.2 (or previous versions)
-=-
17 (6%)
XP Compatibility patch
-=-
8 (3%)
Gog version for Windows
-=-
69 (27%)
Scient (unofficial) patch
-=-
25 (10%)
Kyrub's latest patch
-=-
14 (5%)
Yitzi's latest patch
-=-
85 (34%)
AC for Mac
-=-
2 (0%)
AC for Linux
-=-
5 (2%)
Gog version for Mac
-=-
10 (4%)
No patch
-=-
12 (4%)
Total Members Voted: 247
AC2 Wiki Logo

* Random quote

The genetic code does not, and cannot, specify the nature and position of every capillary in the body or every neuron in the brain. What it can do is describe the underlying fractal pattern which creates them.
~Academician Prokhor Zakharov 'Nonlinear Genetics'

* Select your theme

*