So about my factions... (LE -> SMAX balance thoughts)

[Kilkakon]

There's been a few people who've said I should make them for SMAX. Of course, this opens an interesting balancing point: my game has its own tech tree, its own units, its own facilities and its own SE choices.

How does this translate to SMAX? There's been a few attempts due to people wanting to draft them in AARs, but let's have a look at all of them now.

To help out, here's a summary:

(click to show/hide)

True Arena
Agenda: Power (+2 Morale, +2 Support, -1 Planet)
+2 MORALE: Battle hardened warriors that train daily
-2 ECONOMY: Extravagant Arena operation proves costly
Free ARENA (Brood Pit) in every city.
May not value Knowledge.

Deadly Assassins
Agenda: Knowledge (same as SMAX Knowledge)
+1 RESEARCH: Places value on training and studying
-1 SUPPORT: Prefers few elite units over "grunt" warriors
-40% cost to SPY actions: Skilled at stealthy movement
Begins with a free SPY.
May not value Greed. (SMAX's Wealth)

The Betrayed
Agenda: All Must Die (+3 Morale, +3 Industry, -2 Planet, -3 Growth)
+50% PSI: Followers desire revenge
+1 INDUSTRY: Rage fuels production
-1 ORDER (Efficiency): People are selfish due to past hurt
-1 MORALE: Rushed and unprepared attacks
Receives half penalties for negative GROWTH modifiers.
May not embrace Christianity. (similar to SMAX's Green -- end result is that they can't convert natives until late game)

Blackband's Pirates
Agenda: Power
Aquatic faction
-1 GROWTH: Babies can die due to harsh conditions
-1 INDUSTRY: Spends far too much time out pillaging enemies
Improvements may be built in ocean and trench squares.
+1 Production from ocean shelf squares.
May not value Knowledge.

CyndaTech Industries
Agenda: Atheism (+2 SUPPORT, +2 POLICE, -2 RESEARCH)
+1 SUPPORT: Social dominance
+2 INDUSTRY: Brutal serfdom
-1 PLANET: Hatred towards native life
-1 MORALE: Oppressive society with tragic overtones
1 in every 4 citizens are unhappy.
Begins with 2 SUPPLY CRAWLERS (unique units).
Impunity to ATHEISM penalty: Scientists kept under pressure to keep working
May not pursue Perfect Society.

Darrus' Adventurers
Agenda: Power
+1 SUPPORT: Males live off the land
+1 MORALE: Heroic spirit
-1 GROWTH: Males leave home for long periods of time to adventure
-1 PLANET: Sees native life as a threat to be tamed
Begins with 3 CHARMANDER EXPLORERS (1e/1e/2).

The Realm of Light
+25% ATTACK: Strength of convictions
-1 GROWTH: Many people reject the Light
-1 POLICE: Forgiving, kind society
1 in every 4 citizens are happy.
Impunity to CHRISTIANITY penalty: Followers willingly choose to have large families
May not embrace Demonism.

Oblivion's Fallen
Agenda: Demonism (+2 Growth, +2 Research, -3 Police)
+1 GROWTH: Procreation encouraged
-1 ORDER: Corruption a way of life for followers
-1 PROBE: Vulnerable and afraid of the Light
-1 PLANET: Apathy towards clean operation
-1 RESEARCH: Would rather play than learn
Free TEMPLE (Recreation Commons) in every city.
Need WATER SUPPLY for bases to exceed size 5: Perverted activities poison water supplies
Impunity to DEMONISM penalty: Oblivion keeps his followers happy
May not embrace Christianity.

The Community of Rakis
Agenda: Perfect Society (+1 Growth, +1 Research, +1 Planet, -2 Morale)
+1 ORDER: Peace loving society; accepting all under the same banner
+1 POLICE: Freedom mantra generates complusion to conform to common ideals
-1 MORALE: Desires peace over war
Receives DOUBLE votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader.

Latios Express
Agenda: We Must Be Free (-2 Order, +3 Support, +2 Police, +1 Probe)
+1 ECONOMY: Air transport connects otherwise seperated people, increasing trade
-3 SUPPORT: Maintaining a flight network takes considerable resources
-1 PLANET: Little regard for the natives' way of life
-1 PROBE: Large, unwieldy transit system easy to infiltrate
Free AIRPORT (Psi Gate) in every city.
1 in every 4 citizens are unhappy.
Begins with a free RECON GUNSHIP (unique unit).
May not pursue All Must Die.

Spinda Café
Agenda: Greed
+2 ORDER: Experience in running cafés, raffles, etc.
+1 SUPPORT: Keen interest in recycling
-1 MORALE: Disinterested in combat
-1 RESEARCH: Limited funds for research and development
2% INTEREST: Gains 2% interest on gold reserves every turn
May not pursue All Must Die.

Seafoam Collective
Agenda: We Must Be Free
+1 POLICE: Great spirit of collective effort
+1 INDUSTRY: Followers realise the urgency of the situation
-1 ORDER: Rushed exodus means that many resort to stealing due to low supplies
-1 SUPPORT: Supply lines from Seafoam Islands are infrequent
Extra 2 COLONY PODS at start.
May exceed WATER SUPPLY (Hab Complex) population requirements by 2.

Vixen's Path
Agenda: Demonism
+1 ORDER: Strict, controlling society
+1 SUPPORT: All males are sent into combat as soon as they can stand
+1 MORALE: Survivors return home to life of breeding stallion--Matriarchs are practical
-1 POLICE: Males often rebel against the harsh female mistresses
-1 INDUSTRY: Females were not designed for hard labour
Receives half penalties for negative POLICE modifiers.
May not embrace Christianity.

Protectors of the Wild
Agenda: Perfect Society
+25% DEFENCE: Generations of experience in defending temples
+2 PLANET: Devoted to promoting native growth
+1 SUPPORT: Society dedicated to defending cities
-2 INDUSTRY: Reluctant to produce material goods
-1 RESEARCH: Suspicious of modern science
+1 Food in vine (fungus) squares.
May not embrace Demonism.

What do you think would work for these guys in the normal game? Open to discussion!

[JarlWolf]

The first thing we ought to look at is their respective ideologies and themes associated with them: and try to translate that to a SMAC/X version of it, then hammer the stats and other stuff later. Maybe a brief synopsis of their beliefs? I know a few of these already because I've used these before in some of my gameplay sessions (tweaked them of course to fit in a bit better: Still core theme kept, and fun factions I must say, The Betrayed are quite a scary opponent) but others here may not know.

[Kilkakon]

Okay sure. I'll write out some very brief idealogies here:

True Arena
Believes in strength and power. Opens arenas to the public of all walks of life to test their combat skill against tough creatures and bosses. Very military orientated.

Deadly Assassins
Seek enlightenment, very knowledge/ethereal sorts. Espionage and cloak and dagger tactics prevail.

The Betrayed
Former genetic experiments out for revenge in a big way. Everything must burn.

Blackband's Pirates
Stereotypical pirate, take what you can and give nothing back.

CyndaTech Industries
Athiestic industrial state, seeking to eliminate painful emotions from life

Darrus' Adventurers
See themselves as the law keepers of the land, they build towns and most of their males go out and adventure

The Realm of Light
Loving, peaceful society. Christian, rather small.

Oblivion's Fallen
Powerful, large faction. Incredibly hedonistic. Sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll here.

The Community of Rakis
Peacemaker, normaliser faction. Wants to end wars and create world peace.

Latios Express
Wants to bring people together by creating a flight network. He's all about flying and flying transport.

Spinda Café
All about opening cafes and item shops for people to enjoy. Customer satisafication.

Seafoam Collective
Their original islands were so crowded they had to expand. These are those people. Often looked down upon as living on other people's turf.

Vixen's Path
Matriach society. Males are the warriors, survivors and victors get to breed, failures and weaklings get neutered and sent out to die. Women rule and run the cities.

Protectors of the Wild
Runs a series of ancient temples. Really just want to be left alone and defend themselves against all newcomers.

[Kilkakon]

Any ideas or thoughts?

[JarlWolf]

I got plenty, but I was hoping for someone to post before me so I am not hogging and seemingly dictating the idea's.

But I'll make the plunge.


The Air transport one should be translated as a sort of "Postman" faction if you know what I mean: They want to unify Planet via communication and transportation, and technically do not run on any ideal. Though for the sake of SE choices, they would pick Wealth as their main one, and probably have no anti-ideology.

Have them start with some sort of air related thing or transport related thing: Maybe to make them interesting, have them start with air units, but have some serious penalty for naval units, like having them all as slow maybe... not sure. What I was thinking was Copter Colony pods and such, make them crazy unique and funny that way,and have air units. Just some sort of penalty to counteract it... im not sure.


As for the Assassins, their ideal is in no need of changing, they just need a re-texture for their leaderhead I think...

Same goes with Matriachs.

As for the True Arena something interesting can happen for them: Have them a survival of the fittest gladiator style society: Where everyone is a slave that needs to fight for their freedom, like as young people to become adults, and thus citizens, they must kill/win a fight in the arena, and area combat constantly trains them for battle. Sort of like a [progeny of unmarried parents] mix of my Valhallans+The Imperium Crescint, if you need a comparison.

Betrayed mainly just need a re-skin for the most part and SE conversions, but ideal wise they can work, might want to look to my version of them to get idea's.

Blackband's pirates just seem to be a more chaotic version of  , and they need something to make them more unique.

Cyndatech seems pretty cool, a Corporate style police state. They might just need re-skins for the most part really.

The Adventurer's can be reskinned, and also a bit re-themed to maybe have a faction of adventuring explorers and such and focus on the theme of Centauri explorers, maybe have them have bonuses for exploration or exploration related things or formers. Like give them doctrine mobility for a starter tech.

Realm of light needs a re-working due to the multicultural background, maybe have them instead of a Christian religious movement, they are more of moralistic faction of fundamentalists that are probably more accepting then factions like  or and are mainly pacifists, wanting to just have their own simple lives. Might be a bit repressive, think of Amish style culture maybe...

The fallen also need a bit of reworking, but mostly in the naming compartment/theme a bit. A hedonistic society with full on liberalism has appeal, it just needs retexturing and restructiuring, core idea doesn't need to be changed too much.

The Community of Rakis sounds like an Egalitarian, Communitarian faction, just more peaceful then the Comrades and probably not as Socialist. So just have them more focused on pacifism and growth over war, and we'll figure out some re-naming.

Spindas Cafe just needs renaming and a more serious approach, maybe have them be a form of energy/information traders, as opposed to a monopolizing conglomerate. Sort of like Sigma's house Satori, but more focused on actual trade then keeping a vast network of spies and diplomacy, so maybe give them mostly commercial bonuses.

Seafoam Collective just needs something to replace the "Seafoam" part of their name and then a re-texture. Their motto of rapid expansion and industrialized communities at the sake of planet is already a strong idea, that one doesn't need too much work.

The protectors of the wild sound like a planet supporting faction, and for this one have them focused on two things: A Defence bonus and maybe something like growth. They aren't the most aggressive faction but they can put up a very strong fight while defending, and a player/faction will need to fight them eventually due to their growth.

Those are just some basic ideas I had, I have more but I'd like to let others speak/that stuff formulate.

[Kilkakon]

Thank you for your input. We're fortunate in that Assassins and True Arena can be ported across without much in the way of changing.

So far, Pirates, Oblivion and Betrayed have been converted previously, although I am willing to give them a second look to make sure the pack is all good.

One idea, especially for those who have an immunity to a social engineering choice, is to roll the bonuses from that choice right into the faction.

As a side note, I will probably not be changing the graphics for these. It's mainly just asking about the rules side of things here.

[JarlWolf]

What about for leaderheads? You keeping them as the beasties or you want human/more vanilla flavoured equivalents?

[Kilkakon]

I'll probably keep the beasties. The main reasons for making a version for SMAX is that people who want to use the leaders in AARs or just mix them into a random bunch of people can do so, whereas now they can't use due to tech and civic incompabilities. And it helps out Ete's wiki endeavours.

[JarlWolf]

Alright, so these are just gameplay conversions over total conversions to SMAC/X lore. Understand now 

[Kilkakon]

Hehe thanks regardless for your input. Some of your suggestions are still perfectly valid.

I'd probably have Realm of Light going Eudiamonic as their agenda. Perhaps Rakis as well. I'm guessing Police State for CyndaTech.

Fortunately as you say, True Arena and Assassins can be ported across without any changes as their stats and civics are the same mostly.

[Kilkakon]

Had a stab at the agendae, what do you think?

Realm of Light: Eudaimonic
Protectors of the Wild: Green
Oblivion's Fallen: Thought Control
CyndaTech Industries: Police State
Community of Rakis: Democratic
Blackband's Pirates: Power
Deadly Assassins: Knowledge
Spinda Cafe: Wealth
The Betrayed: Thought Control
Latios Express: Free Market (maybe?)
True Arena: Power

Still unsure about Seafoam, Vixen's Path and Darrus' Adventurers.

[Buster's Uncle]

Those seem solid enough.

Knowledge and not Power for the Assassins?  Is that for variety?

[Kilkakon]

These particular ones are more focusing on enlightenment than brute strength. *nods*

[Buster's Uncle]

Sorta like Bushido Buddhism, huh?

[JarlWolf]

It seems so, given the architecture and mentality. If his Assassins were more hired hitmen/hired guild it'd be wealth.