Version 2.2 of my patch is ready

[Yitzi]

Ok, so I checked out the conventional payload thing, and it's not an unintentional bug; for whatever reason, they intentionally hardcoded in "for any missile that's not a planetbuster, add 50% to attack strength" instead of the formula in the datalinks.  So that raises the question of whether it's the actual rules that are bugged, or the datalinks simply reflect a previous plan that is no longer the case.  (In the latter case, missiles probably should be changed to allow other weapon choices so that they're not useless later in the game.)  You want to set up a poll on the matter?

[Geo]

Assuming this is the latest version, I'll drop the request/question here.

Yitzi, have you found or plan to open up the extra yields given by landmarks? I see them listed in the alphax file under the #NATURAL section, but that's it.
On that note, have you thought of giving modders the option of removing or increasing the number of any given landmark on a random map?

Lastly, I noticed in alphax there's actually a fourth (unused) slot for resources. Have you tried to find if this can be activated?

Code: [Select]

; Resource production (nutrient, minerals, energy, [b]<unused>[/b]) for
; special squares. In normal squares, these values are determined
; by the temperature, rainfall, rockiness, etc. of the square.
;
; "Bonus Square" value for particular category is added to other
; production in a square.
;
; "Improved Land" means farm, mine, solar
; "Improved Sea"  means desal, platform, harness
;
#RESOURCEINFO
Ocean Square,     1, 0, 0, 0,
Base Square,      2, 1, 1, 0,
Bonus Square,     2, 2, 2, 0, * Mineral +1 if mine present
Forest Square,    1, 2, 1, 0,
Recycling Tanks,  1, 1, 1, 0,
Improved Land,    1, *, *, 0, "*" columns are ignored entirely
Improved Sea,     2, 1, 3, 0, * Mineral +1 with Advanced Ecological Engineering
Monolith,         2, 2, 2, 0,
Borehole Square,  0, 6, 6, 0,
Appearantly, it was to be used for a psi resource.

Code: [Select]

#RESOURCES
Nutrient, Nutrients,
Mineral,  Minerals,
Energy,   Energy,
Psi,      Psi,

[Green1]

Still seem to be having random crash issues on my end unfortunately. I feel like something is preventing me from joining the cool kids.

I am really scratching my head as to what is the problem if a lot of other folks seem to be having none. I do not think now it is a ForceOldVoxel or direct draw issue since i did a fresh install to try this version of the patch and it did not create an alphax.ini file.

I have enclosed a save so maybe you can use your superior expertise to help me out with this. I really want to move off Kyrubs SMAX patch PLUS to a more modern and maintained patch.

[Yitzi]

Assuming this is the latest version, I'll drop the request/question here.

The latest is 2.3, but I can answer anyway.

Yitzi, have you found or plan to open up the extra yields given by landmarks? I see them listed in the alphax file under the #NATURAL section, but that's it.

You mean make it possible to control how much they give?  It would be doable, and can be done once I'm ready to take requests, if people want it.

On that note, have you thought of giving modders the option of removing or increasing the number of any given landmark on a random map?

Not really.  I think it'd be far more trouble than just having a CMN make a map with the desired number.

Lastly, I noticed in alphax there's actually a fourth (unused) slot for resources. Have you tried to find if this can be activated?

A fourth resource type?  That would essentially require rewriting the whole game, so no.

Still seem to be having random crash issues on my end unfortunately. I feel like something is preventing me from joining the cool kids.

I am really scratching my head as to what is the problem if a lot of other folks seem to be having none. I do not think now it is a ForceOldVoxel or direct draw issue since i did a fresh install to try this version of the patch and it did not create an alphax.ini file.

I have enclosed a save so maybe you can use your superior expertise to help me out with this. I really want to move off Kyrubs SMAX patch PLUS to a more modern and maintained patch.

I'll see what I can do.

[Yitzi]

Still seem to be having random crash issues on my end unfortunately. I feel like something is preventing me from joining the cool kids.

I am really scratching my head as to what is the problem if a lot of other folks seem to be having none. I do not think now it is a ForceOldVoxel or direct draw issue since i did a fresh install to try this version of the patch and it did not create an alphax.ini file.

I have enclosed a save so maybe you can use your superior expertise to help me out with this. I really want to move off Kyrubs SMAX patch PLUS to a more modern and maintained patch.

Thank you; you found a bug in my patch.  It has been fixed, and I will be posting version 2.3b shortly.

[Earthmichael]

How hard is it to patch to allow all techs to be researched, where the perquisites are met?  I would like to have an option to eliminate the random suppression of techs available for research.  I find this "feature" just causes me grief, and does not contribute in the least to my enjoyment of the game.  I thought I had seen somewhere where someone had done just this, but I cannot find it now.  But I remember the UI, because when there were a lot of possible techs, only the names were listed, which is fine with me.

[Yitzi]

How hard is it to patch to allow all techs to be researched, where the perquisites are met?  I would like to have an option to eliminate the random suppression of techs available for research.  I find this "feature" just causes me grief, and does not contribute in the least to my enjoyment of the game.  I thought I had seen somewhere where someone had done just this, but I cannot find it now.  But I remember the UI, because when there were a lot of possible techs, only the names were listed, which is fine with me.

Probably not all that hard, but hard enough that I'm not doing it until I start taking requests.

[Earthmichael]

Do you have a document that summarizes all of your bug fixes and how to use the various options in your latest patch?

[Yitzi]

Do you have a document that summarizes all of your bug fixes and how to use the various options in your latest patch?

I'm not sure if this is 100% complete with regard to bugfixes, but it's the closest there is.

It also links to a description of the new options; they're all in the #RULES section of alphax.txt, and those that are codes for the rules have the details on that page.

I hope to include the codes in a .txt file in 2.4.

[Green1]

Do you have a document that summarizes all of your bug fixes and how to use the various options in your latest patch?

I'm not sure if this is 100% complete with regard to bugfixes, but it's the closest there is.

It also links to a description of the new options; they're all in the #RULES section of alphax.txt, and those that are codes for the rules have the details on that page.

I hope to include the codes in a .txt file in 2.4.

EM, one of the features I have been impressed yet and have yet to try is pacifist drone settings that is listed on the wiki. I think Yitzi has inadvertently buffed historically weak AIs like Morgan or Aki that run FM and get crippled by the pacifist drones. I am definitely going to fiddle around with that. I am thinking anything that is not a scout or air power should not count.

What a huge fix that makes sense. Plus, if someone is a purist or thinks differently, there are other settings or they can leave it alone.

Can not wait to see how it works.

[Yitzi]

EM, one of the features I have been impressed yet and have yet to try is pacifist drone settings that is listed on the wiki. I think Yitzi has inadvertently buffed historically weak AIs like Morgan or Aki that run FM and get crippled by the pacifist drones.

I haven't inadvertently buffed anything there, as the defaults are the same rules as now.  You can strengthen or weaken the rules as you wish.

I am definitely going to fiddle around with that. I am thinking anything that is not a scout or air power should not count.

Actually, scouts are the least likely military units to count; if scouts count, so do their non-scout counterparts.  Options 3 and 4 mean that non-air units don't count, and air scouts also don't count (and with 3 interceptors don't count either.)

[Green1]

Well... CAN be buffed Which will happen thanks to your hard work

Reading through:

    0.No units produce pacifism drones.
    1.Only air units with 2 or more attack produce pacifism drones; interceptors are exempt.
    2.Only air units with 2 or more attack produce pacifism drones; interceptors are not exempt.
    3.Air units produce pacifism drones, unless they are noncombat (i.e. have no attack) or scout units (i.e. those with 1 attack, 1 defense, and 1 reactor) or interceptors.
    4.Air units produce pacifism drones, unless they are noncombat (i.e. have no attack) or scout units (i.e. those with 1 attack, 1 defense, and 1 reactor).
    5.Only combat air units produce pacifism drones;interceptors are exempt.
    6.Only combat air units produce pacifism drones;interceptors are not exempt.
    7.Only units with 2 or more attack produce pacifism drones.
    8.Only unarmored units with 1 or 0 attack do not produce pacifism drones.
    9.Only noncombat units and scout units do not produce pacifism drones.
    10.Only unarmored noncombat units and scout units do not produce pacifism drones.
    11.Only noncombat units do not produce pacifism drones.
    12.Only unarmored noncombat units do not produce pacifism drones.
    13.All combat units, as well as probe teams, produce pacifism drones.
    14.All combat units and armored noncombat units, as well as unarmored probe teams, produce pacifism drones.
    15.All units produce pacifism drones.

Lots of considering.

My thoughts: All Air should not. All with just hand weapons should not. All non combat should not.

I will probably go with 12. Most air is not armored in most games I have seen.

 Seems like more towards what I would like.

[Earthmichael]

Yitzi, you have done some great work, but even though you have a good amount of documentation written, I am trying to wrap my head around it.  Also, I want to make sure exactly what I am getting into with each setting.

1. Do the alphax setting only affect the start of the game, or can a game that is underway have all players simultaneously tweak with alphax setting?  In other words, is it possible to change setting mid-game if everyone agrees?

2. If I want to NEVER have rising water, what settings do I need to set on alphax?

3. Do you have some examples of costs calculated with various options for calculating unit costs?  Is there some settings that many people have agreed are "fair"?

4. As for Pacifism drones, I think Green may have misunderstood option 12, since it applies only to noncombat units.  I like option 1, which allows interceptor and any unit with 1 attack to be exempt.  However, I am not sure if this only applies to air units, or if it applies to all units?  Will land or sea units with only 1 attack also be immune to pacifism drones?  I think that is what I would like: all units of any kind with attack <2 and interceptors (with any attack value) are immune to pacifism drones.  How does the community feel about this?

5.  If I understand the drone rules flags, a value 1 changes the order in which Pacifism drones are applied, and allows all normal drone suppression methods to work with Pacifism drones?  If this is true, I like this option; I never understood applying Pacifism drones after all drone suppression mechanisms no longer help.

6. Any extra documentation, posts, etc. to use your patch to the best effect would be useful. 

7. I think it would be good if the community adopted Yitzi patch as the standard for games, and it would be good if we could agree on a standard set of fixes for all games. 
7a. For example, I think all games would befit from suppressing rising water (you could always specifically turn it on for YOUR game if you like it, but I think the community as a whole would agree that rising water is too much of a nuisance and micromanagement to leave on.)
7b. I think all games would benefit from setting drone rules flags to 1, because I think Pacifism acts like a bug, otherwise.
7c. What are some other standard fixes the community thinks should apply?  A change to unit costs?  An additional drone rule flag (to add to 1)?  A standard pacifism rule (if not 1), what would be a good rule?

I would love to come up with a standard version of alphax and Yitzi's patch to use on my future games, especially the new game I am starting with ete's map!

[Yitzi]

Well... CAN be buffed

That wasn't inadvertent either.  I want modders to have the option of making Free Market have different disadvantages.  For example, if you want it to be not quite as hard for explorers or defensive war but harder to wage an offensive war under, and increase its effects on ecodamage, you could:
-Lower the first two pacifism values to 0, so that units in your own or an ally's territory don't cause pacifism.
-Lower the third pacifism value to 9, so that you can still scout in unowned territory.
-Raise the fourth pacifism value to 15, so that even support noncombat units produce pacifism drones in enemy territory.
-Change the drone rules to 4,5,6,7,12,13,14,15,20,21,22,23,28,29,30, or 31, so that punishment spheres don't suppress drones and talents while running Free Market.
-Increase the ecodamage divisor and/or the minerals ecodamage divisor, and maybe make negative bonus ecodamage per base, but also lower or eliminate clean minerals, as clean minerals are not affected by free market, whereas the rest of the calculation does include the effects of free market.

Lots of considering.

My thoughts: All Air should not. All with just hand weapons should not. All non combat should not.

If land units produce pacifism drones, so do air units; even in the pre-patch, air units produce pacifism drones in cases where land units don't (i.e. in your territory).

I will probably go with 12.

Keep in mind you can make it different depending on whose territory it is.

12 means that anything with any attack or armor (even hand weapons) produces pacifism drones; if you want units with just hand weapons not to (and even defensive units like 1/3/1 would not), then option 7 is your best bet.

Yitzi, you have done some great work, but even though you have a good amount of documentation written, I am trying to wrap my head around it.  Also, I want to make sure exactly what I am getting into with each setting.

1. Do the alphax setting only affect the start of the game, or can a game that is underway have all players simultaneously tweak with alphax setting?  In other words, is it possible to change setting mid-game if everyone agrees?

There are a few settings, such as mission start year, that cannot be tweaked, but most of them can.

Of the new ones I added, they all can be tweaked, but there are three that should not under some circumstances:  "Extra "virtual minerals" per relevant atrocity/missile" should not be tweaked once someone has caused extra ecodamage via atrocities/missiles, "If non-zero, fungal pops reduce the effects of atrocities/missiles but do not increase CM" should not be tweaked once there has been a fungal pop or someone has caused extra ecodamage via atrocities/missiles, and "If non-zero, ecodamage is based off Planet Busters rather than major atrocities" should not be tweaked once someone has committed any major atrocity or used a planet buster with the U.N. charter repealed.  (Other major atrocities with the U.N. charter repealed are ok.)

2. If I want to NEVER have rising water, what settings do I need to set on alphax?

Where it says "Numerator/Denominator for frequency of global warming (1,2 would be "half" normal warming)", change that to 0,1.  Then there will be no rising water unless the council votes to make the water rise.

3. Do you have some examples of costs calculated with various options for calculating unit costs?  Is there some settings that many people have agreed are "fair"?

There's no real agreement, which is part of why I've made so many options, and keep in mind that costs are affected not only by the formula but also by what costs you assign to various weapons, modules, armors, chassises, and abilities.  You might just want to play around, or if there's a particular goal I may be able to help you find a way.

I like option 1, which allows interceptor and any unit with 1 attack to be exempt.  However, I am not sure if this only applies to air units, or if it applies to all units?  Will land or sea units with only 1 attack also be immune to pacifism drones?

With options 1-6, land and sea units are immune to pacifism drones no matter what, just like for the unpatched version when the unit is in your territory.

I think that is what I would like: all units of any kind with attack <2 and interceptors (with any attack value) are immune to pacifism drones.

Why would interceptors be more lenient than land units?

5.  If I understand the drone rules flags, a value 1 changes the order in which Pacifism drones are applied, and allows all normal drone suppression methods to work with Pacifism drones?  If this is true, I like this option; I never understood applying Pacifism drones after all drone suppression mechanisms no longer help.

This is correct.

6. Any extra documentation, posts, etc. to use your patch to the best effect would be useful. 

Once I have enough options (not yet), I plan to provide my own take on an idea, but currently it's really for modders to decide what they want.

7a. For example, I think all games would befit from suppressing rising water (you could always specifically turn it on for YOUR game if you like it, but I think the community as a whole would agree that rising water is too much of a nuisance and micromanagement to leave on.)

Keep in mind that the effects of rising water also depend on how much ecodamage there is.  If you use my patch to reduce the amount of ecodamage, rising water becomes much less of a nuisance, as do worms.  (If you want to make ecodamage more interesting, you can lower clean minerals but also lower the ecodamage per mineral above clean minerals, so that it can never be completely eliminated but is a lot easier to mitigate.)

[Geo]

On that note, have you thought of giving modders the option of removing or increasing the number of any given landmark on a random map?

Not really.  I think it'd be far more trouble than just having a CMN make a map with the desired number.

Thing is, I'm asking this for a single player game normal start for random maps.
There are circumstances where the less 'natural' landmarks shouldn't come into play. Say the Ruins, Manifold Nexus, and Borehole Cluster. And sometimes even the Unity wreckage.
Or Planetfall on a tectonically very active world with multiple volcano's and lots of rifts (Nexus canyons). Or one which underwent an asteroid bombardment.