SMAX - The Will to Power - mod

[bvanevery]

When did Former units go to a 4 sub-move regime, and 2/4 to move 1 square along a road?  Only 2 moves per Former.  Haven't noticed whether it's true of other infantry units yet.

Just started a game on a Huge map, 30%..50% land mass, Transcend difficulty, random opponents, to see how it compares to my own mod.  Drew the Peacekeepers.  Have lush green land with a bunch of fungus touching, in my immediate vicinity.  Got a fungal bloom east of me, but I the think the land it messed up, was already dry.  Hmm, wait, I save scummed the fungal bloom out of disbelief about the Former's move.  At first I thought it was a bug.

Hm, 2 moves on roads for infantry units.  Doubting that will be Huge map friendly, but we'll see.

Completion scummed a Recon Rover.

MY 2115.  Survived my 1st pod popped hatchling mindworm attack with 50% damage.  Happened to have a 2nd Scout on scene for counterattack but didn't need it.

Same year, popped a fungal bloom with a fairly well developed fungal tower.  Somewhat blocks up westward expansion, 4 squares from my capitol.  Reasonable test question: when will I be able to kill it?  It's too soon to be trying, but as turns ensue I'll try to give it some priority.

MY 2118.  The rather precise screen says if I attack the Hatchling that has slid up next to my base, I have an 82% chance of losing.  Guess I'll wait for the attack.  I save the game, not knowing whether these odds are accurate in the real world.  They sure look convincing.  Next year I took 30% wounds defending, so ok whatever.

MY 2121.  Lost 2 units in different places in the bush, getting attacked by mindworms I could have attacked first.  Displayed odds of attack weren't great for me, so not sure what's best.  Makes me realize that I have no odds estimating my defense next turn.  Generally speaking, I think odds of defense would never be explicitly revealed to me.

MY 2122.  Attacking a 50% wounded hatchling that I had the good luck of being in the right place to attack, has a 88% chance of them winning?  That's kinda BS.  Well, will it die if it attacks me instead?  Guess I'll find out.  Won't be having any SUPPORT problem at this rate.  Actually getting 2 tries at this in 2 different places.  Won both engagements.  1 took no wounds, 1 took 80% wounds.  Ok whatever.  "Choose defend".

This is seeming to imply that I cannot rid myself of a Spore Launcher, except at great cost.

MY 2126.  My Green Scout with a little bit of experience and 90% health from spore launcher fire, has a 53% chance against the spore launcher.  I have a Recon Rover for followup.  Scout dies, inflicting 50% wounds.  Rover prevails, taking only 10% wounds.

Same year, a Unity Rover gets surrounded by 2 hatchlings.  Odds are against me, so I wait to be hit.  Remarkably, it survives both.

I rush my 1st Colonist for 36 credits, saving me 4 turns.

MY 2133.  A shore dumped hatchling attacks but does not kill one of my Formers.  That's cool because it's really irritating to have half your road making capability destroyed early on.  I've had no time to make others, as they're not entirely cheap.  I go back to base to heal up.

Same year I pop an Isle with my cheap Gun Foil.  Attacking it is 50% odds.  Can I defend kill it?  That's not a realistic option in the original game.  If I can consistently pull that off, it would make clearing my home waters of immediate threats much easier.  It would amount to a form of easy ship training.  Well I live, but it makes me 90% wounded.  I don't know that there's any guarantee on this.

MY 2134.  I get to try the Isle thing again with my other cheap Gun Foil.  It survives but with 70% wounds.  So, a decent option if close to base where one can heal up.  Far from base, probably better to get out of the way.

I rush my 2nd Colonist for 27 credits, saving me 5 turns.  That base had 1 extra unit drawing SUPPORT.

MY 2137.  My slightly wounded rover meets a Caretaker rover.  They declare war on me.  Next year I find they have a second rover.  Next year, that rover kills me, even though I was standing on some rocks.

MY 2141.  I found the Monsoon Jungle, a good distance south of me.

MY 2142.  My Hardened 20% wounded rover kills a Caretaker spore launcher, that had boxed me in next to a wild hatchling.  I escape the latter.

MY 2143.  I get my 1st large pile of cash from popping pods, 100 credits.  It's been pretty lean and I've popped a lot of pods.  Some turns from now, I'll use it to complete a Command Center next to a mineral deposit.  I also acquired Synthmetal Armor from a pod, so I'll make some defense against the Caretakers.  I don't think their threat is anywhere nearby though.  I've got a couple of Foil Probe Teams being built, because I didn't have much else to do at the time.

MY 2145.  I run into the Believers.  Miriam wants an alliance to make war on the Cultists, and I grant it to her.  She's also at war with the Caretakers already.  We trade some techs.  She's doing the usual holdout on Nonlinear Mathematics, for the silly Universal Translator.  Miriam is somewhat far from me to the west and has traveled by the northern ocean.  I suspect the Caretakers are between us.

I've survived the initial game just fine and don't see anything particularly wrong with my expansion.  According to the graph I am the worst faction in the game.  I think Miriam used to be the worst but not any longer.  Much of my initial scouting burst has been used up and I've popped many pods immediately around me.  My efforts will now become more focused on settling bases in relative safety.  This wasn't so much a choice as a forced reality due to the slowness of colonist production.  It has worked ok though.  I don't see any problem with this initial stage of the game.

I'll beg off the reportage now.  I was mainly interested in seeing whether something in the early game would make me scream.  Earlier I had some Issue Tracker items about that, but with recent releases they were closed.  They may have been solved.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

2 moves for road, 4 for tube. Experimental.
Trying to reduce ground movement comparing to sea/air ones. Ground units moving at infinite speed is somewhat breaking the balance between army classes. I have tried 3x3 previously but even then hovertank moving 27 tiles a turn is pretty much amazing. Now it will move at 12 which is somewhat comparable to needlejets and cruisers.

[bvanevery]

Ground units moving at infinite speed is somewhat breaking the balance between army classes.

Ya think?     It's the one true tactic of the game.  It's also the only thing that makes unit pushing manageable.  That's why I tend to retain it as my favorite, privileged tactic, rather than seeking to get rid of it.  And because I'm not binary modding.

Command Centers costing an arm and a leg, that's new.  16 of 80 minerals, would still need 192 credits to complete it.  Maybe the necessary completion threshold to avoid penalties has changed though.  Or not, maybe it's just damn expensive.  Don't feel like figuring it out right now.

The partial payment calculation is useful.  Now I know what things could really cost me, if I want to hurry them.

Wow, 8 credits to mind control a Cultist Gun Foil.  What a deal.

[bvanevery]

This smells bugged.  I can't believe that my Hardened, slightly wounded rover, could possibly in for imminent death at the hands of a barely breathing mindworm larva.

Details buggy mindworm odds

buggy mindworm odds

Oh wait, maybe I see the problem.  The readout says their odds of winning are 99%.  I think it should say our odds of winning are 99%.  "Their" is ambiguous, it could mean the defender.  I may have been reading earlier odds calculations backwards.

Yep, I won.  "Attacker" would be unambiguous.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Ground units moving at infinite speed is somewhat breaking the balance between army classes.

Ya think?     It's the one true tactic of the game.  It's also the only thing that makes unit pushing manageable.  That's why I tend to retain it as my favorite, privileged tactic, rather than seeking to get rid of it.  And because I'm not binary modding.

I do not particularly mind units moving at a speed of light per se. However, people correctly pointed out that this erases the difference between infantry-rover-hovertank so people would just switch to infantry. The lower the multiplier the more pronounced is hovertank benefit. That is why I initially reduced it to 3x3. However, this still seems to be slightly too much with rovers moving at 18 tiles a turn practically undistinguishable from hovertanks (27) in local combat. So I like to experiment with 2x2 now. That is a matter of taste, though.

As for binary modding you are free to build on top of WTP. It is pretty configurable and has options for practically everything and can be reverted to vanilla in every aspect you like.

Command Centers costing an arm and a leg, that's new.  16 of 80 minerals, would still need 192 credits to complete it.  Maybe the necessary completion threshold to avoid penalties has changed though.  Or not, maybe it's just damn expensive.  Don't feel like figuring it out right now.

Simple economical balance. At 40 it is like a cost of 4-1-1 infantry unit. Many people noted its overly cheap so building it before building any combat unit is no brainer. Doubling the cost is not that much of a robbery. Just making player think whether they want it from the day one. And more thinking is always better. I don't like no brainers.
😀

Wow, 8 credits to mind control a Cultist Gun Foil.  What a deal.

That I didn't change.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Oh wait, maybe I see the problem.  The readout says their odds of winning are 99%.  I think it should say our odds of winning are 99%.  "Their" is ambiguous, it could mean the defender.  I may have been reading earlier odds calculations backwards.

Yep, I won.  "Attacker" would be unambiguous.

"They odds are" is a vanilla thing. I believe you should memorize every vanilla dialog wording by now.
😆

I agree it could use some disambiguation. Feel free to propose better wording.

[bvanevery]

However, people correctly pointed out that this erases the difference between infantry-rover-hovertank so people would just switch to infantry.

You have to actually build rails.  They don't just build themselves.  The real issue is the AI's limited ability to intervene in your building of rails.  If it has an air force, it will destroy your Formers, but you could cover those with AAA units.  Driving a speed-of-light rail deeply into the enemy is pretty hard for the stock AI to defend against.  It just doesn't understand the tactical possibility.  That's why it's so effective.

As for binary modding you are free to build on top of WTP.

Oh sure I could.     There's just no career value in it.  What I should be doing is writing my own 4X from scratch.   I've held myself up with the perceived need to invent a programming language.  I just hate all the other languages so much, I find I can't put the idea down.  I tried to get myself to write AI prototypes in Python or Lua the other week, and I just couldn't justify it!  They make me itch too badly.

I'd only do something on top of WTP if I suddenly saw some burning problem with SMAC, that I simply couldn't let go, that I could actually solve by modding WTP code.  I can't think of any such burning issue at present.  I don't guarantee I'll never think of such an issue.  But the time is not now, and not likely to be soon.  I blew 2.5 years of psychological investment on my own mod.  I'm only in maintenance mode on SMAC stuff right now, and I'm going to totally prefer it that way for quite some time.

When something really bugs me, I file you an Issue Tracker item.  You recently retired most of those, maybe all of them, haven't checked.  Good going!  I haven't fully tested whether I agree with those issues being done and over with now, but I'll get to it.  It's a break from playing my own mod.  I actually do play my own mod lately, for enjoyment.

Simple economical balance. At 40 it is like a cost of 4-1-1 infantry unit. Many people noted its overly cheap so building it before building any combat unit is no brainer. Doubling the cost is not that much of a robbery. Just making player think whether they want it from the day one. And more thinking is always better. I don't like no brainers.
😀

Recently I've noticed an odd behavior in my mod.  The AI doesn't seem to want to build Command Centers most of the time now.  I don't know why.  Seemed like a long time ago, the AI would obsess about building too many of them.  I don't know what is responsible for the change in behavior.  Something about my tech tree being reshuffled I suppose, but damn if I know what.  Doctrine: Mobility is still a Conquer 1 tech with no prereqs.  Still gives the Speeder and the Command Center.

Maybe there's something about my spread of 14 unique research combos, where most of 'em don't care about Command Centers.  But I don't remember any faction building CCs properly nowadays.  Maybe that's been selective observation on my part.  I should see if the violent, Conquest oriented factions are building them.

Anyways if your AI will actually build expensive CCs, well good.  Mine won't even build the cheap ones.

[dino]

Nothing ambiguous about it imo, just a formal, dehumanising and gramatically correct third person speak: "Our forces are ready -> Their winnig chance is.

It's intentionally formal and emotionally detatched, changing Their to Our would make it more intuitive, but less formal and would suggest personal emotional investment from a security chief.

I'd leave it vanilla.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

It's intentionally formal and emotionally detatched, changing Their to Our would make it more intuitive, but less formal and would suggest personal emotional investment from a security chief.

Ah. You mean security chief reports to you and don't even associate the people rushing to attack with either himself or you? Like they are some kind of two forces battling.
😁

Well, with that and odds displayed the game is one step from proposing bets on each side.

[bvanevery]

"Our forces are ready -> Their winnig chance is.

"Our... our" is parallel.  "Our... their" is not.

"Both units have 10 max HP" destroys the possessive pronoun's antecedent.  That's the specific reason it's ambiguous.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

You are right. WTP version is more confusing. Propose the change.

How about I move reactor note to the end or remove entirely assuming players are aware of this?

Code: [Select]

Our forces are ready to begin the assault, $TITLE0 $NAME1. Their odds are:
10 to 1 (vanilla estimate)
20 to 1 (exact simulation)
Attacker winning chances are 70 %.
Shall I order them to proceed?

- Reactor power is [ignored] in combat. Both units have {10} max HP.


[bvanevery]

That works.  You could also just say, "Winning chances are 70%".  Without the discussion of the reactor being ignored, the defender's unit doesn't get drawn into the discussion.  It's fine to leave it at the end.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

I think I'll just drop reactor reference. It is pretty much redundant when odds are computed already.

[bvanevery]

That works.

Ok, I just quit my 1st game.  I have to admit, the reduced road movement is seriously making me itch.  It's throwing off all my muscle memory for the game.  It's making me very conscious of the fact that everything's taking much longer to do, and that's a drag.  I now think plain Formers are pretty useless and am only building Rover Formers.  I already tended to do a lot of that in my own mod, but now I feel like I have to.  Otherwise, how the hell is anything ever going to get done?

I am playing on a Huge map.  I don't know whether I'll feel the same on Standard.  In this game, I was relatively isolated with mild interference from the Caretakers.  Actually the most immediate trigger for me quitting, was when they walked up next to one of my Formers.  I knew they were in the area, and I had counter units in the area.  But everyone moves so slowly, I couldn't get over to defend like usual.  I also don't have any Sensor Arrays built because the Formers are all crippled.

And of course my Former decided to complete its build order and prevent me from moving it out of the way that turn, before I could click on the damn thing to cancel.  I think I filed that sort of thing in the Issue Tracker once.  I know I at least commented on it before.  Think the initial prognosis is it may have come from the original game.

If others object to this slow road movement regime, pay heed.  It may be too much to expect veteran players to swallow.

I don't see why road movement has to be crippled, just because of the infinite rail speed problem.  Moving 6, 8, 10, or 12 squares on a rail as compared to hovertanks, is a tactical concern.  Strategically, I gotta push units all the way across continents.  That's many multiples of turns.  Any finite movement regime is going to take relatively forever.  Gonna be a lot more like long distance naval invasions, which kinda suck on Huge maps.  Sometimes I've done 'em anyways, but never if speedy rails are a viable alternative. 

It's hard for me to visualize hovertank centric combat.  I just don't value it.  I've done it, I've wiped out remote Alien empires with X Missile Hovertanks.  Really made scorched earth with almost no rails and few roads.  Can't remember why I did it that way.  Maybe I got hovertanks before I got super formers, so couldn't raise land.  It's not like I don't know how to use hovertanks, I just don't see the value.

Is this like a multiplayer thing?  The multiplayers love hovertanks and want more hovertank centric stuff?

I mean heck I can build Airbases every 12 squares and destroy everything that way.  I just don't want to.  And if I couldn't do rails, why would I choose hovertanks over air assault?  Hovertanks are slower, they aren't typically cheaper, and ECM is a plenty abundant defense.  I've been made to feel really stupid, ho ho ho, sending my great early batch of hovertanks against even the stock AI.  Yeah that went well.  The only thing they've really got going for them, is logistical independence.  You don't need to keep flying them back to a base.  Just like ships have logistical independence for exploring distant parts of the map.  You don't have to build roads and rails to support them.

Do any of you folks actually play Huge maps regularly?  They're all I play.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

I have to admit, the reduced road movement is seriously making me itch.  It's throwing off all my muscle memory for the game.

He he. Mine too. I always try to move unit third time and move some other unit by that instead. Maybe I should change it to 3x2. Should keep road multiplier intact and nobody got used to tube multiplier anyway.