Author Topic: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod  (Read 159376 times)

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Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1110 on: October 22, 2020, 07:31:25 PM »
The native life generator parameters are turned back to vanilla values in 161. It does not produce more of them.

The only modifications are that it generates more of sea natives comparing to land ones. It was 1:5 in vanilla. Now is about 1:2.

This totally sucks for the Pirates though.  They typically won't do land, playing to their supposed strengths in the water.  Going from 20% of the native life form budget in their waters, to 50% of the budget, is a 150% increase in native spam coming their way.

The big problem with that early Isle is I could not see it coming.  It just spawns right next to my Sea Colonist and immediately kills.  Perhaps if such spawners had a movement delay.  For all I know that might be nontrivial to code though.  I'm not sure why lots of Isles at sea don't move around for awhile, on bigger maps, but it's a thing.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1111 on: October 22, 2020, 07:42:07 PM »
The "Transcend should be beatable" argument is a complete contradiction to Thinker-WTP purpose.

Transcend should be an enjoyable serious challenge for an experienced hardcore player.  And it's something you should have configured right out of the box.  What's right or not, that's what we're debating.  Telling me to set it myself, hey, I've got an entire mod where I "set it myself".  It's the play experience you put in front of other people, that's relevant.  Compare "batteries included" vs. "batteries not included, roll your own".

Quote
Aquatic factions....  Even without extra mineral they develop quite well in my games.

Of course they do.  The AI is loaded with production bonuses and set to spam heavily.  Human player has a tiny fraction of production resources by comparison.  This human writing to you, also gets deadly bored having to spam zillions of colonies to keep up with the AIs, that don't get bored doing that.

Quote
I also can develop well when playing them.

How are you playing them then? 

Quote
Thank you, man. I appreciate any feedback and even more play testing.

NP.  Think I'm gonna try Huge and Pirates again in a minute.  I want to know if sea spam is governed by map size.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1112 on: October 22, 2020, 08:32:59 PM »
NP.  Think I'm gonna try Huge and Pirates again in a minute.  I want to know if sea spam is governed by map size.

Huge map, 30%..50% land mass.  Oceans look perfectly reasonable for the Pirates compared to my own mod.  Started at 2:50 PM.

early sealurk too strong
early sealurk too strong

MY 2126.  Only a half hour into the game, barely have had time to do anything.  Only settled my 1st city that actually has minerals a few turns ago.  Sealurk summarily crushes my Scout, and I think that Scout already had an attack to strengthen it up a little bit.  The 150% increase in the native spam the Pirates get, is not fair.

I would quit this game and call all playtesting "done", were it not for the fact that I finally completed a Gun Foil just to the south.  In a city with no particular productivity, just overwhelming amounts of food, so it took quite some time and it's lucky it's ready.  Nevermind available here when needed, because I made it to go exploring.  So I will kill the Sealurk, or garrison and let it attack if necessary, and then slug on with the game.  But clearly, the Pirates have been given serious disadvantage and that should be corrected somehow.

Techs as usual are more than I can make stuff with.

The secret to the extent I've spread so far, is setting up Completions of sea colony pods.

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1113 on: October 22, 2020, 08:50:57 PM »
The native life generator parameters are turned back to vanilla values in 161. It does not produce more of them.

The only modifications are that it generates more of sea natives comparing to land ones. It was 1:5 in vanilla. Now is about 1:2.

This totally sucks for the Pirates though.  They typically won't do land, playing to their supposed strengths in the water.  Going from 20% of the native life form budget in their waters, to 50% of the budget, is a 150% increase in native spam coming their way.

The big problem with that early Isle is I could not see it coming.  It just spawns right next to my Sea Colonist and immediately kills.  Perhaps if such spawners had a movement delay.  For all I know that might be nontrivial to code though.  I'm not sure why lots of Isles at sea don't move around for awhile, on bigger maps, but it's a thing.

You made a point. I'll revert it or try to tone down. This is minor thing. Nothing to hold on.
Vanilla generator was probably designed in SMAC time not accounting for aquatic factions. So I always felt vanilla Pirates do not suffer enough natives comparing to their land colleagues.

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1114 on: October 22, 2020, 09:03:04 PM »
Telling me to set it myself, hey, I've got an entire mod where I "set it myself".  It's the play experience you put in front of other people, that's relevant.  Compare "batteries included" vs. "batteries not included, roll your own".

Didn't mean to offend you or disregard the question. I meant it is configurable and can be done. I am not yet prepared to change default, though, as many people asking for opposite things. So we either should find some compromise or relay on people configuring it for themselves. I cannot create personal configuration for every user.

I propose you change it, play it out, and share your opinion whether it made it better.

Quote
Aquatic factions....  Even without extra mineral they develop quite well in my games.

Of course they do.  The AI is loaded with production bonuses and set to spam heavily.  Human player has a tiny fraction of production resources by comparison.  This human writing to you, also gets deadly bored having to spam zillions of colonies to keep up with the AIs, that don't get bored doing that.

I meant relatively to others AI.

Quote
I also can develop well when playing them.

How are you playing them then? 

I don't think I have a special secret for them specifically. Just use whatever they are good for: fast movement, population and cash flow. Build harnesses, buy a lot of stuff with cash, also expand far and look for juicy spots everywhere before others claim them. That include both ocean and land placement. I quite often find some unpopulated isles or peninsulas with ruins, crater, volcano and jump populate it.


Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1115 on: October 22, 2020, 09:11:34 PM »
Here for you to try out if it feels any better.

# Version 163

* Reverted all native life generator parameters to vanilla. Native life should be back to normal.
  * native_life_generator_constant=2
   * native_life_generator_multiplier=2
   * native_life_generator_more_sea_creatures=0
   * native_disable_sudden_death=0

* Scaled tech cost up a little. It seems that research are coming in too quick succestion. This'll also give some value back to RESEARCH.
  * tech_cost_scale=1.25


Offline Tayta Malikai

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1116 on: October 23, 2020, 01:23:20 AM »
Been too busy with work and playing multiplayer to comment much here. One of those games is with Nevill's modded WtP and another is with MercantileInterest's modded WtP, so at least the mod is being put to good use!

Do you mind sending their configuration to me? I'll just include them as MP versions.

Did I understood it right that you are playing all 7 humans? That should be too much of excitement.
I always wanted to gang up with nerds. But don't invite me. I don't have much time to spare on this and will ruin your experience.

If this is the case, though, the "enemy" you are describing in this post - is it other human player?
Yep, I am in two games with 7 human players right now, the one I linked to being one of them. The other one, a Binary Dawn game, is nearing the 2150s and just starting to get interesting.

It requires a lot of discipline and patience to get everyone to make their turns every day, though.

And nah, the screenshots I've been providing are from my singleplayer game with custom factions, a good ol' AI bash. I'm mostly posting these to provide a counterpoint for bvanevery's reports that the mod is too hardcore. ;)

I can possibly get around to sharing Nevill's config, since he posted an earlier version here at some point. MercantileInterest would probably prefer to release his mod on his own time.

Also, I can report that in both Nevill's and Merc's WtP games, we are currently getting flooded in worms... and it is awesome.

With police being unattractive as of v160 (updated from v121 mid-game, nothing seems to have broken)

Are you talking about policing in general or Police State? I didn't see PS even changed since v121.
I'm not sure what effect changing the SE table has during a game, so I didn't update past v160.

The -INDUSTRY for Police State is possibly bearable now that I have Wealth giving me +2, but I'd lose too much energy to inefficiency, and most of my bases aren't big enough for me to really need that. In any case, I'd only be able to suppress another 2 drones per base, which might be worth it if I didn't have the Human Genome Project... but at this point, I might as well just put the energy into Psych and keep the drones happy that way.

Non-Lethal Methods really needs to be earlier in the tech tree to make going police-heavy viable. Even more so if you're turning tech costs up to 125%.

Speaking of which... I'm playing a research-heavy faction, and it still takes me 12 turns to research a tier-5 tech, as of 2210 running Democracy+Planned+Wealth. I think this is the same issue I reported in Money and the Will to Power, where early-game productivity is so slow that more tech isn't very useful at that stage, so I went Fundy and put all my energy into Econ and Psych (though this came back to bite me when I fell seriously behind in research).

I suppose 125% tech costs is good enough to align the tech race with the industrial race. Easier than diving deep into the particularities of the early game economy.

So far I built a single Genejack Factory, which let me achieve 30 minerals in my HQ. It would be higher, but the extra drone meant I had to turn one worker into an Engineer. I do like how buffed those became, dunno if it's balanced, but I like it!

What specifically was buffed? Genejack Factory, Engineer, psych facilities?
Engineers provide +5 energy now (and +1 labs). This is what I meant.

Wealth was already a strong SE choice in vanilla, probably the strongest, and it only got even stronger here. I'm not sure buffing it to +2 INDUSTRY is really necessary. Neither of the penalties, -2 MORALE and -1 POLICE, hurt very much in comparison.

So, err, is too much or too little in your perception? I think people tend to overstate INDUSTRY and other clearly visual effects because they are transparent to user. Like +1 INDUSTRY is roughly 10% production increase. However, as it was already proven many times, some effects much surpass mere 10% bonus. Like +2 ECONOMY or early SUPPPORT, maybe even POLICE in need time, etc.

I have added extra INDUSTRY to make it more lore abiding. This was originally product of Industrial Automation, after all. Before I felt it quite undistinguishable.

Do you want to change it somehow? How is replacing -1 POLICE with -2/3 PLANET? Forces player to strengthen anti native defense and constantly replenish base defenders.
I think replacing the -1 POLICE with -1 PLANET would be acceptable. Democracy and Free Market already give -1 and -2, so more would be just overloading things, and it would somewhat nerf the Democracy+Green+Wealth combo. By the time one gets to Wealth they should be able to provide sufficient anti-native defenses anyway.

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1117 on: October 23, 2020, 01:42:55 AM »
Non-Lethal Methods really needs to be earlier in the tech tree to make going police-heavy viable. Even more so if you're turning tech costs up to 125%.

Speaking of which... I'm playing a research-heavy faction, and it still takes me 12 turns to research a tier-5 tech, as of 2210 running Democracy+Planned+Wealth. I think this is the same issue I reported in Money and the Will to Power, where early-game productivity is so slow that more tech isn't very useful at that stage, so I went Fundy and put all my energy into Econ and Psych (though this came back to bite me when I fell seriously behind in research).

I suppose 125% tech costs is good enough to align the tech race with the industrial race. Easier than diving deep into the particularities of the early game economy.

Exactly! Getting lazy. 🤣
I suppose the curve is more or less satisfactory on a whole game duration basis. One still can get into temporary stagnations and sped runs but only due to circumstances and not all the time as in vanilla.

Engineers provide +5 energy now (and +1 labs). This is what I meant.

Maybe just a little comparing to vanilla. It still should not be a good replacement for regular land worker without much inefficiency. But well, play with it and let me know if it OP.

Also, I can report that in both Nevill's and Merc's WtP games, we are currently getting flooded in worms... and it is awesome.

Yea. I though this would keep expansion in check. An alternative to higher Colony cost. With worms around player has to channel a considerable amount of production on native protection, lose colonies and bases, etc. This is essentially same as doubled-tripled colony cost but people complain less about this than about flat colony cost raise because they don't see it as a single number in front of their eyes. People. 🙄

Anyway, look at this section in thinker.ini and feel free to crank different values. These are just some parameters for native life generator. I didn't reprogram generator itself. It is pretty stupid.
Keep in mind that player can modify native live at map creation time.

Code: [Select]
; Native life number of tries to create it at random location: tries = constant + multiplier * <native life level>.
; Higher number of tries increases the chance of native appearing. The dependency is not linear and chance is obviously capped at 100%. So there is no point in making these values too high.
; constant parameter; allowed values: 0-255 (vanilla = 2)
native_life_generator_constant=2
; multiplier parameter; allowed values: 2,3,5 (vanilla = 2)
native_life_generator_multiplier=2

; Sea native are generated more often than in vanilla.
native_life_generator_more_sea_creatures=0

; Native do not suddenly die every 8th turn.
native_disable_sudden_death=0
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:10:01 AM by Alpha Centauri Bear »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1118 on: October 23, 2020, 04:02:35 AM »
fast movement, population and cash flow.

I did not experience any substantial cash flow.  You might be biased towards playing the Pirates as Free Market.  First I went Green, and I needed Children's Creches to make growth possible with -3 GROWTH.  Later I went Democratic, because my benefactor Roze was Democratic, and so was my hostile neighbor Lal.

I did not have fast movement.   Can't afford to build hardly anything.  Population skyrockets, which actually feels more like a liability.

Quote
Build harnesses,

I built about 50% harnesses, 50% mines.

Quote
also expand far and look for juicy spots everywhere before others claim them.

I think you are colony spamming as though you're an AI.

Quote
That include both ocean and land placement.

The Pirates are supposed to be strong in the water.  I felt very weak in the water.  I don't think they should have to be a land power, to make them work.  That makes them pretty generic.  Being a coastal power, well, I can try.  Historically the fear has been being crushed on the coast by a land power that just brings some huge horde in.

feeble
feeble

MY 2227.  This is the point at which I quit.  A locust comes and trashes me.  I don't really see why it's trashing me.  I surely did not have much productivity in that city.  I've never had time to garrison with stuff that would resist Locusts.  Most of my bases still only have Scouts in them.  I was even Democratic Green with a +1 PLANET rating, so if that gives any defensive advantage, it didn't help.  I think this is part of the "too many native life forms in the ocean" problem.

Going vertical just doesn't seem viable.  Building Hologram Theaters and Hab Complexes sucked out all the money I'd accumulated.  AI tends to start encroaching on my borders with all the spam.  Building any Secret Project was never possible.  Other factions completed a few of them.

I was behind on tech for a long time.  Roze rubber banded me with gifts a lot, which sort of rubs it in my face that I'm doing badly.  Eventually I got probe teams.  Then I was able to catch up to the level of the non-technical factions.  The University was off the chart somewhere, piles of tech.  No idea if they could actually make use of it.  Don't care as they stopped being hostile fairly early, think I took a size 1 city from them.  Or maybe just they got bored with fighting.

I don't  know how much actual time was into this game.  I took a break for a long time because lying around with my laptop was bugging my body.  The game was mostly about trying to keep up with my population, and it didn't work.

I can try the spammy approach, provided native life doesn't kill me badly in the beginning.  I'm unlikely to enjoy it, and it may end up being my last test.

Offline Tayta Malikai

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1119 on: October 23, 2020, 01:41:50 PM »
Also, I can report that in both Nevill's and Merc's WtP games, we are currently getting flooded in worms... and it is awesome.

Yea. I though this would keep expansion in check. An alternative to higher Colony cost. With worms around player has to channel a considerable amount of production on native protection, lose colonies and bases, etc. This is essentially same as doubled-tripled colony cost but people complain less about this than about flat colony cost raise because they don't see it as a single number in front of their eyes. People.

Anyway, look at this section in thinker.ini and feel free to crank different values. These are just some parameters for native life generator. I didn't reprogram generator itself. It is pretty stupid.
Keep in mind that player can modify native live at map creation time.
Nah, 6-row colony pods was pretty absurd. You'd be stuck doing nothing for more than a dozen turns while they built.

With more worm spawns, there's a more active component to the game. They're a force of nature, but one you can directly do something about, through building scouts to hunt for them, fungicides to clear fungus, sensors to give their defense bonus (well, not in WtP I suppose). You get to actually move stuff about on the screen, which is more fun than sitting and waiting for stuff to build.

Most importantly, you get an easy, impersonal target to complain about hindering your game progress. "Damn worms ate my colony pod!" is a sentiment everyone can get behind, and better for player engagement than "oh boy, everything takes ages to build, how exciting". Yes, it's player psychology, and no, it doesn't make sense sometimes. As you say: people! ;)

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1120 on: October 23, 2020, 02:35:55 PM »
Nah, 6-row colony pods was pretty absurd. You'd be stuck doing nothing for more than a dozen turns while they built.

With more worm spawns, there's a more active component to the game. They're a force of nature, but one you can directly do something about, through building scouts to hunt for them, fungicides to clear fungus, sensors to give their defense bonus (well, not in WtP I suppose). You get to actually move stuff about on the screen, which is more fun than sitting and waiting for stuff to build.

Most importantly, you get an easy, impersonal target to complain about hindering your game progress. "Damn worms ate my colony pod!" is a sentiment everyone can get behind, and better for player engagement than "oh boy, everything takes ages to build, how exciting". Yes, it's player psychology, and no, it doesn't make sense sometimes. As you say: people! ;)

You absolute precisely elaborated on my single word statement. 🤣

Offline Nevill

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1121 on: October 23, 2020, 05:24:49 PM »
Alright.

I made the following request in the Issues thread:
Quote from: Nevill
Continuing the trend of "making WtP complonents optional" I'd like to request a partial restoration of an old behavior.

Specifically, the ability costs. One of the most-used cost factors was -1, or attack/defense ratio, making certain abilities free for pure defense units, and less costly for balanced ones. I find that an extra row is a poor substitute for that.
And was suggested to move the discussion here.

First things first, I'd like to point out that I do not argue for the ability costs to be changed for the WtP mod. But I would like to make those changes myself in my games. Essentially, I want an under the hood change to restore vanilla functionality because I think it had the right idea.
Quote from: tnevolin
I like the free police idea. However, that makes all mixed attackers units (armor >= weapon) also free. Wouldn't it be a too much of a giveaway?
I don't think it'd be too big of an issue because they won't be top of the line, and additinal armor/weapons would add some extra costs by themselves. I'll need to see this in game to decide if it is too much or not, but right now the negatives are modded out.

Oh, and by the way, it's attack/defense rounded down, so a 8-8-x unit would cost +25% higher, but a 6-8-x would be free.

I would like to make the game follow the logic of Attack:Defense ratio being 3:2 at any given tier. You can see it in vanilla starting from tier 2 (4 Impact / 3 Plasma), to tier 4 (6 Missile / 4 Silksteel), to tier 5 (String 8 / 5 Photon), to tier 7 (Fission-Tachyon 10-12 / 7 Probability), though it breaks down in the upper tiers. So a weapon value lower than the armor would mean the unit's penetrative power is pretty weak, and it mostly qualifies for a defensive unit.

I disagree rather vehemently with WtP's philosophy of blanket defence bonuses, and believe that defence units should be specialized. Thus I like to lower base/territory bonuses, and promote free-er special abilities for defenders.

They aren't entirely free,  as at the very least they take away an ability slot. So you'd have to choose between a clean defender, or an AAA/trance one. Having both would cost you +25% even when the abilities themselves cost 0.

Quote from: Nevill
Make Deep Radar cost something for land units.
Quote from: tnevolin
It is still like that. I never changed it.
Alas, something must have been broken, because Deep Radar ability ignores the "Cost increased for land units" flag, and is free for land units. Or rather, the flag no longer works as it should.

Bottom line:
* I find WtP's flat cost modifiers useful for some abilities. Definitely would like to see it on less critical abilities like fungucidal tanks which should not be free but shouldn't cost much more.
* I'd like to see the -1 (attack/defense) cost modifier functionality restored, and possibly have a similar one, except instead of vanilla +25%/+50% it could add 1/2 mineral rows for higher attack/defense ratio.
* I'd like to see the "Cost increased for land units" flag working again
* I'd have some uses for the "cost increases for speed" flag, though not many
* I don't think I've seen any other negative flags used except for vanilla's -7 to discourage armored artillery, which I find stupid.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 05:41:30 PM by Nevill »

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1122 on: October 23, 2020, 06:56:00 PM »
First things first, I'd like to point out that I do not argue for the ability costs to be changed for the WtP mod. But I would like to make those changes myself in my games. Essentially, I want an under the hood change to restore vanilla functionality because I think it had the right idea.

I have introduced negative ability values into unit cost calculation (and this weird increased land cost ability flag too). Didn't test it yet. Feel free to try it out.
That also should fix Deep Radar for land units. That what was broken.

Quote from: tnevolin
I like the free police idea. However, that makes all mixed attackers units (armor >= weapon) also free. Wouldn't it be a too much of a giveaway?
I don't think it'd be too big of an issue because they won't be top of the line, and additinal armor/weapons would add some extra costs by themselves. I'll need to see this in game to decide if it is too much or not, but right now the negatives are modded out.

Oh, and by the way, it's attack/defense rounded down, so a 8-8-x unit would cost +25% higher, but a 6-8-x would be free.

Yes, I rounded it wrong in my head first. 🙂
Don't mind this idea in general at all. However, keep in mind that Clean Reactor itself becomes available only later in the game.

I would like to make the game follow the logic of Attack:Defense ratio being 3:2 at any given tier. You can see it in vanilla starting from tier 2 (4 Impact / 3 Plasma), to tier 4 (6 Missile / 4 Silksteel), to tier 5 (String 8 / 5 Photon), to tier 7 (Fission-Tachyon 10-12 / 7 Probability), though it breaks down in the upper tiers. So a weapon value lower than the armor would mean the unit's penetrative power is pretty weak, and it mostly qualifies for a defensive unit.

Need more elaboration on that. Are you talking about unit pricing OR weapon/armor value progression?

If unit pricing: Currently cost for secondary statistics is halved. Do you want armor to be counted secondary statistics until the 2/3 of the weapon and then it becomes primary?

If value progression: Currently weapon and armor values are discovered at about the same rate. Do you want best armor to progress roughly at 2/3 of best weapon throughout the game?

I disagree rather vehemently with WtP's philosophy of blanket defence bonuses, and believe that defence units should be specialized. Thus I like to lower base/territory bonuses, and promote free-er special abilities for defenders.

They aren't entirely free,  as at the very least they take away an ability slot. So you'd have to choose between a clean defender, or an AAA/trance one. Having both would cost you +25% even when the abilities themselves cost 0.

I beg you pardon. I have not introduced any de-specialization in WTP. It is all SMACX custom design philosophy you are blaming! Where, on Earth Alpha Centauri you saw *any* specialized unit? I cannot even think how you envisioned such specialization to be possible with the design workshop. 😲
Please enlighten me.

* I find WtP's flat cost modifiers useful for some abilities. Definitely would like to see it on less critical abilities like fungucidal tanks which should not be free but shouldn't cost much more.

It was +1 row before. Then with base former cost decreased to 2 I counted 50% cost increase too excessive. Can return back if you believe it is important ability for some dedicated fungus removal units.

* I'd like to see the -1 (attack/defense) cost modifier functionality restored, and possibly have a similar one, except instead of vanilla +25%/+50% it could add 1/2 mineral rows for higher attack/defense ratio.

That is probably possible but I don't understand why flat cost should be at all involved when you are talking weapon and armor values. It won't scale.

* I'd like to see the "Cost increased for land units" flag working again

Done.

* I'd have some uses for the "cost increases for speed" flag, though not many

That all probably can be introduced too.

* I don't think I've seen any other negative flags used except for vanilla's -7 to discourage armored artillery, which I find stupid.

Exactly. There is too much of customization and yet, this customization doesn't let you customize to your liking. Dead end design path.



On a personal note, I believe you are wasting time trying to make SMACX unit work like Civ 1/2 predesigned units with imprinted abilities. SMACX philosophy is completely mind blowing different. Essentially player is presented with components (weapon, armor, chassis, ability) with unique qualities and such qualities should be already balanced within the individual component itself. Meaning, you need to consider each component in isolation and see if all its parameters are balanced between each other. Most of the time it is a price vs. benefits. The constructed unit cost can be modified based on component combination too but this still doesn't make it unique. There could be large number of other, slightly differently designed units, very similar to this one.

Any attempt to fix certain component combinations will just mess up the whole free design idea as vanilla did. Look at their unit cost rules? They are just insane. Very convoluted, non-transparent to user and they still result in tons of stupid edge cases and exploits. So in trying to restrict their own free design paradigm they didn't achieve the desired goal!

In short, I recommend to keep all unit cost formulas as flat as possible. Any implications of that are absolutely minor and doesn't affect the overall strategy. May result in shifting certain unit group production proportion. That's all.
For example, Deep Radar cost 1 for land units. This essentially denies radar to land units. What significant difference does it make? Human doesn't see AI units in fungus 2 tiles away? I cannot even formulate how specifically this may tilt the strategy. Even less define the magnitude of such changes.


Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1123 on: October 23, 2020, 07:20:42 PM »
mineral sprawl
mineral sprawl

Version 163.  Huge map, 30%..50% land.  Pirates vs. random opponents.  MY 2190.  This is likely the maximum extent of the empire for quite some time.  It is based on the principle that only mineral specials count in the ocean.  Almost every city is sitting on one.  Nutrient specials are worthless because food is abundant.  Energy specials aren't all that special because energy in the ocean is reasonably plentiful.  It can be worth acquiring energy specials once minerals are exhausted, such as to puff out a border, or encroach upon a coast. 

It's hard to read, but I began at Safe Haven in the upper left corner of the screen, sitting on an energy special.  I spread south to the minerals that were available.  Then I spread east to more minerals.  In that direction I eventually came in contact with the Hive in the water.  I also started feeling that my -1 EFFIC limit was going to constrain me from doing much more than that anyways.  I anticipated that Safe Haven would not be centrally located and waited sometime before deciding where to rebuild my HQ.  I'm currently doing that at Frigate Base, which is in the "hook bay" at the tip of the peninsula.  It's close to dead center of my empire.

I don't think I've had a single spontaneously spawning Isle or Sealurk after me.  I did have some when clearing out nearby sea supply pods, but that is to be expected.  In particular, the Sargasso Sea required a lot of Gun Foil work.  Sea expansion has been relaxed and not painful like previous games.

If someone complains that the indigenous sea threat is too easy now, they might have a point, but I'm fine with it as is.  My empire is garrisoned with untrained ECM Scouts.  As usual, I have not had time to come up with anything better.  I've got 1 Command Center in my whole empire, down south by the Caretakers.  It hasn't cranked out any real units out yet, because I have to build Hologram Theaters everywhere to keep people happy.

I have made no SE choices, as the ones available are not worthwhile.  I might go Democratic if I had that available, but I don't.  Lal and I are allied and he recently gifted me Fusion Power.  It will be a few more turns before I can beg again. 

Like the previous games, I'm catching up to other non-tech factions using foil probe teams.  I used to be at war with both the Caretakers and Usurpers, but the latter just offered a Truce.  Even though I had a bunch of foil probe teams en route to steal from them, I took the Truce.  They will divert to steal from the underside of the Caretakers instead.  It's a long route because once they steal, they end up at that little sea base with the Command Center right on the edge of Caretaker territory.  Then they have to sail all the way around the peninsula to get back into action.  It's like rounding Cape Horn.  But there's not that much left to steal, so it should be fine.

Although I kept the idea of coastal settlement in mind, taking sea minerals is clearly a better option for the Pirates.  Competing against a massively spamming land mass of dense AI cities, is not.  Lal is my ally, so not any practical need to compete with him.  The Caretakers started beyond my logistical reach, but are smallpoxing the land mass.  My plan is to colonize the peninsula at some point.  It is bare of competition, and logistically I can control it better than the Caretakers can.  Thus, my empire growth is "naturalistic" according to priorities.  Sea minerals are first.  Then, it's a question of what "rounding out" the empire looks like, as well as who's bothering me.

For instance, the Truce with Yang just expired, and he recently allied with the Caretakers against the Usurpers.  If it comes to naval war though, I'll soon be ready.  I've acquired Doctrine: Initiative somehow and so can defend and attack better on water than anyone else can right now.  The problem is getting everyone happy enough to be able to have some production and make the ships.  I did build a Skunkworks and I do have reasonable ship designs completed, if not the most advanced tech.

Tech rate in this game has been fine, no issues.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1124 on: October 23, 2020, 07:34:51 PM »
For example, Deep Radar cost 1 for land units. This essentially denies radar to land units. What significant difference does it make? Human doesn't see AI units in fungus 2 tiles away? I cannot even formulate how specifically this may tilt the strategy. Even less define the magnitude of such changes.
I nerfed the armament of Battle Ogres MK I, because they trashed me a few too many times in the beginning of the game when I only had Scouts to defend with.  It wasn't just the Caretakers and Usurpers doing it, they were getting popped out of supply pods too, and somehow finding their way to screw me over.  I reenvisioned the Ogre Mk I as a scouting unit.  I gave them Deep Radar.  Now they're actually useful at the beginning of the game if you get them.  You tromp slowly over the land, surveying the fungus, instead of just plowing through the fungus and getting killed.

I put Deep Radar on my Unity Foil, Unity Transport, and Unity Lifter units.  The latter is a transport chopper with a huge fuel supply.  All of these are darned useful for early scouting, before Deep Radar becomes available for sea units.

I wish the stock binary would stop bugging me with Heavy Artillery designs that have Deep Radar, and Scout Rover designs.  They just cost more, they're not useful.  They waste design slots and force me to go purge designs.  If you run out of design slots, you can have things like the game forgetting you used to know how to make Planet Busters.  Yes I can turn off the automated unit designer, but then I lose convenience for many other cases.  So either way, the stupidity creates work for me.

 

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