Gollum: Good or Bad?

[Unorthodox]

Because, why the hell not?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/12/02/world/europe/ap-eu-turkey-erdogan-gollum.html?_r=0

ANKARA, Turkey — A Turkish court overseeing the case of a doctor accused of insulting President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has ruled that a committee of experts should assess whether the fictional Lord of the Rings character Gollum is good or bad.

Bilgin Ciftci faces up to two years in prison for allegedly insulting a state official by juxtaposing pictures of Gollum and Erdogan on social media.

Lawyer Hicran Danisman told the AP Wednesday that she was forced to argue in court this week that "Gollum is not a bad character" because she got "nowhere" with a defense case based on freedom of expression.

Danisman said that prompted the judge to rule that a committee, including psychologists and movie experts, should provide an assessment of Gollum's character.

Trial was adjourned until Feb. 23.

[gwillybj]

Can you call a narcissistic murderer bad? He didn't know any better. He was a victim of his own greed, possessed by the power of the ring.

[vonbach]

He murdered someone. Multiple someones. He made his choices he can live with them.
Pity him if you like but he's still a murderer.

[Unorthodox]

He murdered someone. Multiple someones. He made his choices he can live with them.
Pity him if you like but he's still a murderer.

Hm. 

DID he make choices, however?  Did he really HAVE a choice?  I'm a little unclear how deep the ring's influence really is.  Bordering on full bore possession, at least after some time and depending on the person. 

[gwillybj]

He murdered someone. Multiple someones. He made his choices he can live with them.
Pity him if you like but he's still a murderer.

Hm. 

DID he make choices, however?  Did he really HAVE a choice?  I'm a little unclear how deep the ring's influence really is.  Bordering on full bore possession, at least after some time and depending on the person. 

As for the ring's power, remember that Gandalf refused to be its keeper. He didn't want to be that close to the temptations it would present.

[Unorthodox]

He murdered someone. Multiple someones. He made his choices he can live with them.
Pity him if you like but he's still a murderer.

Hm. 

DID he make choices, however?  Did he really HAVE a choice?  I'm a little unclear how deep the ring's influence really is.  Bordering on full bore possession, at least after some time and depending on the person. 

As for the ring's power, remember that Gandalf refused to be its keeper. He didn't want to be that close to the temptations it would present.

And that was a trial for him just to refuse, more than just temptation, but the ring calling to him.  Him, one of the greatest wizards.  The Ring clearly effects different races differently.  Humans seem especially vulnerable to it, while Hobbits especially resistant.  AFAIK, we don't know where Gollum's race falls in that scale. 

(Caveat:  I've watched the movies, and LIKED the Hobbit.  BUT, I read an original copy of The Hobbit, where Gollum is not nearly the same, nor is the ring evil, nor does Bilbo hide it from the others, and was thus thoroughly confused when reading lord of the rings to the point I hated reading the latter, and haven't read the revised Hobbit, or Lord of the Rings again since my teen years.) 

[Rusty Edge]

I said good, given the binary choice.
I read The Hobbit when I was 9 or 10. The way I remember it, he was "possessed" ( to put it in terms I would have thought at the time ). Today I would say he was insanely obsessed.

[Nikolai]

He murdered someone. Multiple someones. He made his choices he can live with them.
Pity him if you like but he's still a murderer.

Hm. 

DID he make choices, however?  Did he really HAVE a choice?  I'm a little unclear how deep the ring's influence really is.  Bordering on full bore possession, at least after some time and depending on the person. 

As for the ring's power, remember that Gandalf refused to be its keeper. He didn't want to be that close to the temptations it would present.

And that was a trial for him just to refuse, more than just temptation, but the ring calling to him.  Him, one of the greatest wizards.  The Ring clearly effects different races differently.  Humans seem especially vulnerable to it, while Hobbits especially resistant.  AFAIK, we don't know where Gollum's race falls in that scale. 

(Caveat:  I've watched the movies, and LIKED the Hobbit.  BUT, I read an original copy of The Hobbit, where Gollum is not nearly the same, nor is the ring evil, nor does Bilbo hide it from the others, and was thus thoroughly confused when reading lord of the rings to the point I hated reading the latter, and haven't read the revised Hobbit, or Lord of the Rings again since my teen years.) 

Eh, isn't Gollum a Hobbit?

[Buster's Uncle]

He is.

[Unorthodox]

He is.

Thought he was a 'river folk'? 

[Buster's Uncle]

Yes.  Hobbits who lived east of the Misty Mountains prior to the settlement of the Shire.

[Unorthodox]

This is probably from one of the assorted later additions, eh?  Or my memory is bad.  I thought Gandalf/someone specifically said it was a race "LIKE" the hobbits, implying NOT a hobbit.  Even if he's a "Hobbit", he's still a different RACE of Hobbit.  ie, they had a common ancestor type situation is how I always had understood it.  But, you guys would know better than I. 

[Buster's Uncle]

He's a Hobbit.  A Stoor, I think.  No longer recall exactly where the details were gone into.